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Enchantment System Rework + New Mark system

alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User
edited November 2021 in General Discussion (PC)
@nitocris83 @sgrantdev @eminnerdev#8159 @cryptic39#8917 @terramak @sgrantdev @lassor

Okay, this is the part where I ask myself: why do I still do this? I just like to suffer a little, I think, and it makes me feel good about how things could be different, so I keep trying.
Well, I hope you are not frightened by this proposal, but it ended up being bigger than I intended, the truth is that it still makes room for 3 or 4 more things that need improvement and are linked to this topic, but I will not delve into them. Just an emergency mention of the current levels of incantations that have been meaningless for many years and got worse after the M20. Half of the enchantment ranks are totally forgotten even for newcomers, not to mention that their upgrades are always unfeasible due to the high cost. A suggestion for this specific subject is to reduce the current 15 ranks to 7 and adjust the necessary upgrade resources, I can go further if addressing the zero need for a rank system in view of the fact that we have rarity systems with 6 different levels, common, unusual, rare, epic, legendary and mythical. 6 rarities that could even be extended if extremely necessary by adding just a plus. Example: common, common +, uncommon, uncommon +, rare, rare +, epic, epic +, legendary, legendary +, mythical, mythical +. However, I think that 6 levels of rarity is more than enough, just think about self-sustainable systems and long-term thinking. Sharandar's new rings are meaningless in my view, +1 and +2 rings of the same rarity when it could be just an unusual, rare, epic and legendary ring, completely eliminating the +1, +2 and etc. system, not to mention that for some reason the legendary rings are not +4 following the sequence which gives me a crisis of OCD.

But okay, let's talk about the topic specific topic. REMOVE CHARM SLOTS FROM ITEMS. I know that it has been requested a billion times in the past few years, but I came to try to bring a new look to this desire of the community.
The idea here is to add the enchantment slots to the character's slots and remove them from the items. This can even be done in a simple way as in the image below.



But if you want to fly higher, I have more ideas to follow.
First, let's talk about the countless advantages of something like this being implemented.

1 - Greater fluidity in loadout changes.
2 - Valorization of Gold, since in this reality, a gold fee can be charged in the change of loadout.
3 - Greater sense of progression, since in this reality, enchant slots can have level locking, bringing a noticeable improvement in the char for new players.
Furthermore, based on a more elaborate system that I thought we have even more advantages such as:
4 - Better balance of classes, since in this reality the types of slots can be modified based on the paragon, adding more defensive slots for a paragon tank that is weaker, or more utility slots for a paragon that is having difficulties in healing.
5 - Monetization for the game, since in this reality a slot release token can be sold as well as companion slots are sold to new players.
6 - Monetization for the Game, since in this reality the incentive to have more pages of loadouts is increased, mainly in stronger changes such as the ones I will suggest below.
7 - Monetization for the game, since in this reality new players may encounter unlocked slots linked to the TIL (Total Item Level), and that will be very relevant for a builda based on the Mark system that I will talk about below.
8 - Enhancement of the Refinament Point, since in this reality this resource will become crucial and finite for the maintenance of the Mark system.
9 - Valorization of the profession, since in this reality the Mark system is totally linked to craft.
10 - Valuation of the Campaigns, since in this reality some revenues are earned only in the campaign and campaign resources are needed for the crafts, with an addendum to the implementation of the campaign's currency trading in the AH that was suggested in the background in the image below.

OK, after 10 great reasons show how this system will positively impact Neverwinter, let's talk about the systems themselves.

As for the reworking of the enchantment system, as I mentioned, in addition to the need for adjustments to this rank system that no longer makes sense, we would have to add the enchantment slots to the character itself. An additional tip if it is feasible is to transform all of the item's enchantment slots into reinforcement kit slots, so there will be more options for builds and you won't need to completely redo each item by deleting the slots.

In the image below I did a simulation of how the distribution of slot types would look for Warlock's Paragon Hellbringer, this is just a suggestion, this definition of slot types will be based on the leveling and balancing of each paragon, however the need for 3 enchant slots for each equipment slot is for implementing the Mark system.




In Mark's system we have the rounded slots that are slots for a crucial item for the system which are the C.E (Convergence Enchantment). At first these items have no additional effect beyond what it was programmed to be, which is an energy catalyst, which will converge the 3 enchantments linked to it to activate the powers of the Marks with the help of the consumption of Refinament Points and these enchantments need is in a certain order to activate the desired effect according to the brand used within the C.EI n the future C.Emay appear that has specific synergies with types of Marks, such as C.E with a 20% increase in mark durations with reload time , C.E with 20% increase in the additional magnitude of some effect, C.E 20% reduction in the consumption of refinement points and so on.

Using the basic C.E as an example, we have in the image a rough example of how C.E management can work. Note the Refinament Points bar to activate the brand effect, a chain indicating that the order of enchantments is not suitable for the currently active brand. Right below we have the bar referring to Mark's upgrade where it is necessary to insert more sealed Marks of the same rarity in order to upgrade your rarity, in the image the blue bar is already full which indicates that unusual Mark Sealers have already been added o enough and is ready to upgrade. A little further down we have the description of the current effect that we can check despite the fact that it is blocked because the correct enchantments are not being used. The possibilities of effects that we can use in these brands are immense, we can also use effects that already exist in the game, but to a lesser extent. Some examples that I can think of quickly are divided into some categories, I will mention examples where the Mark Sealed are in the Epic rarity.

Proactive Effect: Increases your critical chance by 1.5%.
Reactive Effect: Increases your critical chance by 0.5%. This effect has a 5% chance of stacking each time your critic fails, staking 6 times with a duration of 6 seconds.
Conditional Proactive Effect: Increases your critical chance by 1.5%. This effect is doubled in combat against Feys.
Conditional Reactive Effect: Increases your critical chance by 1.5%. This effect has a 20% chance of being doubled when your maximum HP falls below 75%.
Temporary Special Effect: For 10 seconds you gain an additional healing output and damage of up to 10% based on the difference in HP between you and the target, this effect can only happen once every 90s.

You can add practically everything in this system, any item effect, item set effect, class passive effect, weapon enchantments, armor and also some more original effects that can be thought of occasionally. Of course, all of this has to be divided by 10 and still have a limited duration in some cases, but I could understand the idea.

One of the most interesting and sustainable points of this system is the need to add Refinament Points to the C.E, so that they can do your job with the brands. It would work in practice as a configurable and rechargeable overload, bringing more relevance to the Refinament Point in the long run.
I didn't even think about types of C.E as I mentioned, but something like offensive C.E, defensive and utilitarian or even a categorization similar to that of mount collars restricting the types of mark that each C.E can support is a good idea, because it generates market turnover among players who want certain effects.
As you can see in the image I added one more overload slot for me it makes sense because I always saw the boots as items similar to gloves and helmets, but I never understood why he is the only one not to have an overload slot, but that is merely OCD . Along with the overloads, the weapon and armor enchant slots overlapped the item slots, for space reasons. Remembering that all this menu organization is just to exemplify, but I would like to have the enchants slots visible for identification without having to look at the slots one by one, if you think so too, speak up, I don't want to feel alone.
OK, going back to the Marks, where are we going to get them from? The idea is to place marks to drop everywhere, with a drop rate not too low, as it will take several marks to make it possible to effectively seal, and even more so to make the upgrades. However your drops must follow a basic logic and some special effects must be even more specific. For example: if I'm looking for a Fey Mark, I don't want a candle dropping on dragons, if I'm looking for a mark with an effect similar to that of a field equipment like the effect of rusted boots, it doesn't make sense to drop it on a dread ring. Finally, really special effects such as powers derived from a set like Halaster, these would be interesting if they were drops specific to that boss, as well as an effect derived from the set of the arcturia music box, it is possible to drop your mark on the arcturia itself within LOMM. As much as these marks are a nerfed effect 10 or 20 times, it is still a special mark feature.

Finally, we have the profession system being added as the main source of this system, because without it I would not be able to seal these marks in a way that the Convergence Enchantment accepted. So here it is expected a good division of which types of craftsman can seal each type of mark, it is very interesting that it is possible to craft using campaign items, and that these items become marketable by AH, perhaps adding some of them also available in the order collection of workshop adventurers. A lot can be changed in this sense, and taking into account that we received a new sharandar and that we will most likely receive more reformulations of campaigns ahead, it would be good if this was already thought about in the long term.

Well my friends, I know that many of these ideas are very over, and that I travel beyond the scope of dreaming about possible changes at Neverwinter, but I swear I didn’t use anything illegal, I’m overweight and I would like to have some of these ideas at least being considered for some distant future.
Most likely this post will fall by the wayside as will the RNG + Bestiary Reduction System, as well as the New Breed System that I suggested months ago. But it never hurts to try.

I'll even leave the links for both here, in case anyone wants to read more of my crazy ideas.
NEW RACIAL SYSTEM, SEPARATING RACIAL APPEARANCE FROM SKILLS + NEW SLOTS FOR RACE SKILLS:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1260304/new-racial-system-separating-racial-appearance-from-skills-new-slots-for-race-skills

REDUCTION OF RNG, PROGRESSION BARS, BESTIARY + MONETIZATION:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1258453/reduction-of-rng-progression-bars-bestiary-monetization

I hope you liked some of the ideas, and leave your comments on the subject,
Which of these suggestions do you think would not be good, or that you would change something?
Have you ever had any crazy ideas to change the enchantment system? We are going to debate on this subject, who knows, somebody will listen to us one day.
Forgive me if the text got confused, it may have been the fault of the google translator lol.

Edit: Here are my other posts with suggestions, for those who want to check it out:

1 - REDUCTION OF RNG, PROGRESSION BARS, BESTIARY + MONETIZATION:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1258453/reduction-of-rng-progression-bars-bestiary-monetization

2 - ENCHANTMENT SYSTEM REWORK + NEW MARK SYSTEM:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261228/enchantment-system-rework-new-mark-system

3 - NEW RACIAL SYSTEM, SEPARATING RACIAL APPEARANCE FROM SKILLS + NEW SLOTS FOR RACE SKILLS:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1260304/new-racial-system-separating-racial-appearance-from-skills-new-slots-for-race-skills

4 - ZARIEL CHALLENGE MASTER'S MOUNT, UPGRADE SUGGESTION + CONCEPTUAL ART.:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1261527/zariel-challenge-masters-mount-upgrade-suggestion-conceptual-art

5 - NEW PARAGONS, THIRD LEVEL, ADAPTIVE SKILL BASE:
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1263494/new-paragons-third-level-adaptive-skill-base


Ty all
image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
Post edited by alquimistgg#0914 on
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    armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    You are aware that every time Cryptic touch something, they mess it up..? Without even debating the pro's and (significant) con's of your proposals, even if they did attempt to implement it exactly as you described it would come out quite differently with a slew of unforeseen negative side effects.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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    rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    More extreme overhauls to the basic way the game functions make me feel extremely nauseous after what has already happened but that's just me.
    Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
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    therealprotextherealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 526 Arc User
    I stopped reading when I saw things like "consuming during combat over time" or "need x of the same type". We had this once. Both of it. It was bad. It would still be bad. And it never will be anything than bad.
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    horizonxaelhorizonxael Member Posts: 151 Arc User
    but don't shoot nonsense and leave the world as it is.
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    You are aware that every time Cryptic touch something, they mess it up..? Without even debating the pro's and (significant) con's of your proposals, even if they did attempt to implement it exactly as you described it would come out quite differently with a slew of unforeseen negative side effects.

    it would definitely have negative side effects, I think no change will be 100% positive. But I want to point out that this is just a suggestion of an idea, I didn't do much calculations or analyzes of effectiveness in the examples I gave, if it were implemented exactly that way it would probably be a mess hahahaha
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    More extreme overhauls to the basic way the game functions make me feel extremely nauseous after what has already happened but that's just me.

    sometimes I start from the logic that since it is moving, it takes advantage and moves everything. Anyway, if something like that were addressed, would it be maybe for the M22 or M23? the gap between development is very high. But to be honest I think that just removing the slots out of the items as I showed in the first image would be a very simple thing to do and without a lot of side effects.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    I stopped reading when I saw things like "consuming during combat over time" or "need x of the same type". We had this once. Both of it. It was bad. It would still be bad. And it never will be anything than bad.

    what a pity he stopped reading, he could have seen other points of the idea. Just remembering that these are suggestions of how it could be, everything can be changed, improved or balanced so that it is adequate. I know that a similar system has already been used, but not in a universal way designed for the long term, but rather an isolated system of temporary equipment. in the end is how I put it in the post, the idea that they work as configurable overloads.

    give my idea one more chance, and don't take it literally, they are just north for development, tell me how you do it differently so that maybe one day we can have a voice here.
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    but don't shoot nonsense and leave the world as it is.

    come on, animation, at least one or two of these ideas can be viable, especially the removal of the item slots, this I know has been asked a lot here.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    armadeonxarmadeonx Member Posts: 4,952 Arc User
    edited May 2021

    armadeonx said:

    You are aware that every time Cryptic touch something, they mess it up..? Without even debating the pro's and (significant) con's of your proposals, even if they did attempt to implement it exactly as you described it would come out quite differently with a slew of unforeseen negative side effects.

    it would definitely have negative side effects, I think no change will be 100% positive. But I want to point out that this is just a suggestion of an idea, I didn't do much calculations or analyzes of effectiveness in the examples I gave, if it were implemented exactly that way it would probably be a mess hahahaha
    Cryptic don't do much ' calculations or analysis of effectiveness' either, which is why when an idea is proposed it's best done with a fully thought out & weighed presentation - they cannot be relied upon do to that work.

    E.g. when I suggested they remove Tenacity from pvp gear and apply it instead as a basic on-toon resource for all players (for the purpose of reducing the weeks of insta-death new players had before acquiring pvp gear, thereby putting them off for life), they implemented it with very little change from how I'd proposed it.

    One side effect of this was that players would be able to use pve armor in pvp & pve armor had higher stats...
    What Cryptic NEEDED to do was introduce pvp only magnitudes & effects on all powers that would be too strong for pvp - but they didn't, so we ended up with a power-gap that was just as bad.
    Please Do Not Feed The Trolls

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    Xane De Armadeon: CW
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    Zohar De Armadeon: TR
    Chrion De Armadeon: SW
    Gosti Big Belly: GWF
    Barney McRustbucket: GF
    Lt. Thackeray: HR
    Lucius De Armadeon: BD


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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I suggest you look into Black Ice gear and Voninblod gear and the constant need to replenish. It was a HAMSTER system.

    I know them and I based them really, but the idea is that it is not so try hard to keep the marks active using RP, and the idea of using RP is precisely because it is a universal resource and not a niche like voniblood and blackice that die after a while. Everything can be good if well balanced, far from me wanting the voniblood system back as it was, I suggest something more restrained and organic.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    armadeonx said:

    armadeonx said:

    You are aware that every time Cryptic touch something, they mess it up..? Without even debating the pro's and (significant) con's of your proposals, even if they did attempt to implement it exactly as you described it would come out quite differently with a slew of unforeseen negative side effects.

    it would definitely have negative side effects, I think no change will be 100% positive. But I want to point out that this is just a suggestion of an idea, I didn't do much calculations or analyzes of effectiveness in the examples I gave, if it were implemented exactly that way it would probably be a mess hahahaha
    Cryptic don't do much ' calculations or analysis of effectiveness' either, which is why when an idea is proposed it's best done with a fully thought out & weighed presentation - they cannot be relied upon do to that work.

    E.g. when I suggested they remove Tenacity from pvp gear and apply it instead as a basic on-toon resource for all players (for the purpose of reducing the weeks of insta-death new players had before acquiring pvp gear, thereby putting them off for life), they implemented it with very little change from how I'd proposed it.

    One side effect of this was that players would be able to use pve armor in pvp & pve armor had higher stats...
    What Cryptic NEEDED to do was introduce pvp only magnitudes & effects on all powers that would be too strong for pvp - but they didn't, so we ended up with a power-gap that was just as bad.
    this is true, and it is one of the reasons that I don’t have the heart to post new ideas, moria is ignored, no matter how complete and how requested it is by the community. And if one day it comes to be used it ends up being badly implemented. Cryptic needs to start thinking long term when it comes to developing something.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 12,218 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    Ok, I finally understand this mark system has nothing to do and totally different context with Cryptic's previous mark system for GWF and GF. I was hoping someone wants those back with a new version of that.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    Ok, I finally understand this mark system has nothing to do and totally different context with Cryptic's previous mark system for GWF and GF. I was hoping someone wants those back with a new version of that.

    I liked the old mark system of the classes, this new system that I suggested could bring these old systems in the form of enchanted marks. when i was idealizing this system i came to think about class marks as well as the artifacts, they would be excluded drop mark for each class or through repeatable class quests.

    Example with Line Quest: If I am a warlock I receive a "tutorial" quest to introduce the mark system that will give me a Warlock Mark,

    Another option for these class marks would be drop excluvio.

    Example with Drop Excluviso: If I am a warlock I have an X% chance of dropping the enemy's class mark, in this case I can only drop only the warlock's mark.

    it would be a base class mark that could bring a lesser curse and later bring the old greater curse of the warlock in the form of a mark effect.

    The effect - Warlock's Mark: your powers have a 10% chance to apply a curse, dealing 5 magnitude as necrotic damage for 10 seconds. This effect can only occur once every 30 seconds.

    This it would be an example of a warlock mark in green rarity, the effects can be increased and even receive new additions at higher levels. I like the two implementation options, including both that could work together. This can also be a little more advanced, forgive me for the great text but my mind always goes beyond ideas.

    imagine each class having these class mark options implemented, and at level 30 with the opening of the paragon path, those of mark drop along with the mark reward in the repeatable quest change to class mark and also to paragon mark. That way at level 30 in addition to the base class mark we start to get the paragon mark.

    Examples:
    Hellbringer Mark Effect: your at will has a 5% chance to claim the patron's powers to apply Greater Curse for 15 seconds, increasing the damage done to the affected enemy by 0.5%. This effect can only occur once every 45 seconds. (example of the mark in less rarity).

    Soulweaver Mark Effect: Your healing powers apply SHARED PACT for 10 seconds with targets. SHARED PACT increases the affected healer's incoming healer by 0.5%. This effect can only occur once every 45 seconds. (example of the mark in less rarity).

    It is interesting to imagine these build possibilities that can give a new look to the game mainly based on ONE IMPORTANT FACTOR! would these class marks / paragons have their use limited to their original class? or could we add such effects to other classes with the mark system?

    This could be a little part of the multiclass concept. Imagine a Cleric applying curses and receiving effects from pacts with evil or non-evil creatures. I can still imagine how that would make sense in a very interesting work of lore, which by the way could open the door to a new parallel leveling narrative.
    I imagine a warlock mark for example, being a mark created by powerful and ancient warlocks, who were able to deceive their patrons during the ritual and channel part of the pact into a magic object (warlock mark) giving its bearer a slight control.

    About the power of this patron, and that can go further with new mark releases in the future with new warlock marks that use different patrons in their mark, and here I am giving examples just by putting the warlock in mind.

    imagine mechanics of old classes now extinct coming back in mark form, old feats effects in mark form, you can do many things. I don’t want to bring the old game back, I’m just citing possibilities, remembering that all the examples I gave didn’t have their numbers thought towards balance, but as a basis for examples of functionality. Once again I apologize for the great text, it is that I get involved when I think of new systems.


    For those who are reading so far, on the issues mentioned, in a hypothesis of implementation of these ideas. which of the decision lines would you find most viable?
    would these class marks / paragons have their use limited to their original class? or could we add such effects to other classes with the mark system?
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 838 Arc User
    If the corporate shot callers want to modify the enchant system at all, my recent experience in this game tells me they will just axe it altogether like they did the bonding stones, and offer another exchange program that further inflates the ZAX - maybe a 100M or 200M backlog?

    They make no money off AD anyway. Making it more onerous to get Zen the 'free way' just makes business sense as it drives more F2P players to open their wallets.
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    If the corporate shot callers want to modify the enchant system at all, my recent experience in this game tells me they will just axe it altogether like they did the bonding stones, and offer another exchange program that further inflates the ZAX - maybe a 100M or 200M backlog?

    They make no money off AD anyway. Making it more onerous to get Zen the 'free way' just makes business sense as it drives more F2P players to open their wallets.

    In fact, this problem is a sad reality that we prefer to avoid, but the idea is to try to imagine a pleasant scenario for players as new systems, even if in the end we end up not receiving anything. I really understand the need for the company to want to value Zen more than AD, but this needs to be balanced, a word that sometimes seems to be unknown. I'm trying to make everything better. In the meantime, we can debate ways in which we would like things to be in the future.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I suggest you look into Black Ice gear and Voninblod gear and the constant need to replenish. It was a HAMSTER system.

    I never bought into the gear than required to be fed in Neverwinter. Other games that have durability decrease, as you do combat, I have no issue with them because one quest normally pays twice the repair bills. The problem with SKT gear and whatnot, you are not spending silver or even gold to replenish it, you need to farm a very specific drop from the same campaign from where it was designed. Other normal MMOs have you trot off to the blacksmith after a few battles, pay him a few silvers, and you always make more than enough from the next quest to recover the loss.

    Almost all MMOs allow you to sell off old armor for gold to buy new armor. Far too often in Neverwinter, you can only toss it into the recycler for refinement points. The system has been broken far too long to repair at this point. You have to deal with it or move on. This is why most of my characters in Neverwinter wear garbage blue rank armors from the auction or seal armors from the vendors. It is not worth the +0.0001% upgrade for the next set.

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    rockster#6227 rockster Member Posts: 1,860 Arc User
    When Black Ice gear came out I had a set and it was a pain. I would never bother with anything like that again.
    Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
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    darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    +1 to remove enchants from items I requested this lots of times. No answer
    +1 to simplify enchants. Everything less than rank 8 is just inventory space.
    +1 to a system more deep, with more options
    Not a fan of something that must be rechargable. Nop.
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    +1 to remove enchants from items I requested this lots of times. No answer
    +1 to simplify enchants. Everything less than rank 8 is just inventory space.
    +1 to a system more deep, with more options
    Not a fan of something that must be rechargable. Nop.

    Deeper systems is what I like the most, but the game has a great tendency to simplify things since the M16, some things were fixed as an initial idea, but the execution made it too simple, as in the feats system.

    About rechargeable things I think there is a very bad impression for many players because of old systems like vonibood and black ice that were very abusive in addition to using a specific feature that is only achieved in specific maps. so the idea of spending Refinament Point as general energy for the system seems good if it is not abusive, however that could be changed, instead of the cost of Rp to energize the marks they could add the Rp to give upgrades to the marks, this would not value Rp as in the previous example, but it could please the community in general more, especially if we consider that cryptic does not have a good balance hand and could make the recharge system abusive.
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    kemnimtarkaskemnimtarkas Member Posts: 838 Arc User

    If the corporate shot callers want to modify the enchant system at all, my recent experience in this game tells me they will just axe it altogether like they did the bonding stones, and offer another exchange program that further inflates the ZAX - maybe a 100M or 200M backlog?

    They make no money off AD anyway. Making it more onerous to get Zen the 'free way' just makes business sense as it drives more F2P players to open their wallets.

    In fact, this problem is a sad reality that we prefer to avoid, but the idea is to try to imagine a pleasant scenario for players as new systems, even if in the end we end up not receiving anything. I really understand the need for the company to want to value Zen more than AD, but this needs to be balanced, a word that sometimes seems to be unknown. I'm trying to make everything better. In the meantime, we can debate ways in which we would like things to be in the future.

    TBH, at this point I think getting rid of enchants would be a positive addition. When the combat system gets so complicated that I'm told 'get a good high level enchant, but not too high level or it will actually make you weaker because MATH' it's time to scrap something.
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    greywynd said:

    I suggest you look into Black Ice gear and Voninblod gear and the constant need to replenish. It was a HAMSTER system.

    I never bought into the gear than required to be fed in Neverwinter. Other games that have durability decrease, as you do combat, I have no issue with them because one quest normally pays twice the repair bills. The problem with SKT gear and whatnot, you are not spending silver or even gold to replenish it, you need to farm a very specific drop from the same campaign from where it was designed. Other normal MMOs have you trot off to the blacksmith after a few battles, pay him a few silvers, and you always make more than enough from the next quest to recover the loss.

    Almost all MMOs allow you to sell off old armor for gold to buy new armor. Far too often in Neverwinter, you can only toss it into the recycler for refinement points. The system has been broken far too long to repair at this point. You have to deal with it or move on. This is why most of my characters in Neverwinter wear garbage blue rank armors from the auction or seal armors from the vendors. It is not worth the +0.0001% upgrade for the next set.
    this is exactly my feeling, I think that Refinament points have a great potential to be used in several systems in addition to refining items, this is because it is a resource that you drop from the early levels. You touched on a very pertinent point when comparing the item durability systems that exist in several MMOs, it could even be a point to be discussed in another topic in an item durability addition is something very interesting whether it is done by gold or by Refinement points.

    The question here, as you wisely said, is that both the durability system and the mark system suggested by me use a "universal" remedy within the game and are much more accessible than voniblood and blackice, which were systems thought of only in the short term.

    And I think this is my biggest criticism of all regarding Cryptic's devs. they seem to have a great difficulty or just don't care about long term thinking, IWD brought the black ice system well before SKT, there was no need to add the voniblood system as they could be done using the black ice system prorpio again, mainly because they are maps of the same region, it would have been bad, but it still wouldn't be good since black ice is not a universal resource. I am not a hater here, on the contrary, I value the good development of ideas and dream of better days, I know how to understand the things that devs do, but many things together carry several errors and we cannot ignore them.

    Imagine if together with the IWD instead of the black ice system we had equipment with bars of refinement points functioning as durability bars, this could have endured as a universal system for everything that was launched after the IWD, and I am not saying that the black ice would leave to exist, it was enough to have placed a trade NPC to exchange the map resource in genstone, so any black ice acquired could be converted to energize your equipment, but it would not be worth it since refinement points are a universal resource in the game. with that all the teams of modules after the IWD would have the same system of "durability" bars together with a trade NPC to exchange resources of this map for gestone again as one of the sources to obtain refinamet point. today we would have a durability system with sources of parallel genston farme to repair our equipment regardless of which campaign we were running, this for me is thinking in the long term, there is no point in bringing new and innovative systems that will be dead as soon as the new module arrives or shortly thereafter. I end apologizing for the @blargskull apology for the great text, but I think it is important to express our thoughts, even if it is just to let off steam just so that we can expand our ideas and continue to demand a little more elaboration when defining what is being developed, however much it may be just useless at times.

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    When Black Ice gear came out I had a set and it was a pain. I would never bother with anything like that again.

    It is as I mentioned in other comments above, comparing my suggestion with the black ice and voniblood systems is not the way, I am not suggesting something like that, but I fully understand the trauma that things like that left us. I recommend reading the last comment above, I spoke of exactly how the IWD and SKT system should have done so as not to traumatize us and be a good thing in the long run.
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User

    If the corporate shot callers want to modify the enchant system at all, my recent experience in this game tells me they will just axe it altogether like they did the bonding stones, and offer another exchange program that further inflates the ZAX - maybe a 100M or 200M backlog?

    They make no money off AD anyway. Making it more onerous to get Zen the 'free way' just makes business sense as it drives more F2P players to open their wallets.

    In fact, this problem is a sad reality that we prefer to avoid, but the idea is to try to imagine a pleasant scenario for players as new systems, even if in the end we end up not receiving anything. I really understand the need for the company to want to value Zen more than AD, but this needs to be balanced, a word that sometimes seems to be unknown. I'm trying to make everything better. In the meantime, we can debate ways in which we would like things to be in the future.

    TBH, at this point I think getting rid of enchants would be a positive addition. When the combat system gets so complicated that I'm told 'get a good high level enchant, but not too high level or it will actually make you weaker because MATH' it's time to scrap something.

    That's right friend, you said it well, it's like i said it and other members here too. rank enchants below rank 8 are totally irrelevant even for those new to the game. there is something very wrong with that. I don't think total removal is the solution. I like the idea of having charms as an option to modify your builda to the way you want, but that is not happening at the moment. The combat system in my view was a hit as an idea, and not so good in execution. this is perceived when the runner you just talked about is not worth catching a stronger enchantment in some cases, and this problem applies to other items too, as it is a failure of the combat system, but the same as this failure is resolved in the future, there will still be no sense in the existence of 15 enchant ranks.
    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    hastur905hastur905 Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    @alquimistgg#0914 still digesting ur post, but wanted to advise you that 2 of the 4 people you tagged in it are no longer with Cryptic, Julia and Noworries are the only people remaining.
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    nheffs#7283 nheffs Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited May 2021
    I agree just with the enchantment system changes, making them to be on the character, and not the item.
    Post edited by nheffs#7283 on
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    alquimistgg#0914 alquimistgg Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    hastur905 said:

    @alquimistgg#0914 still digesting ur post, but wanted to advise you that 2 of the 4 people you tagged in it are no longer with Cryptic, Julia and Noworries are the only people remaining.

    indeed, thanks for letting me know. I ended up copying the markings from another old post I made and don't remember to correct, is there any more @ you know that could see this post? when you digest my post feel free to comment on your opinion, whether positive or negative, if it is negative and you can bring solutions to the negative points it would be very good for everyone. thanks

    image - ALQUImist-WL@alquimistgg#0914
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    blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    edited May 2021

    greywynd said:

    I suggest you look into Black Ice gear and Voninblod gear and the constant need to replenish. It was a HAMSTER system.

    I never bought into the gear than required to be fed in Neverwinter. Other games that have durability decrease, as you do combat, I have no issue with them because one quest normally pays twice the repair bills. The problem with SKT gear and whatnot, you are not spending silver or even gold to replenish it, you need to farm a very specific drop from the same campaign from where it was designed. Other normal MMOs have you trot off to the blacksmith after a few battles, pay him a few silvers, and you always make more than enough from the next quest to recover the loss.

    Almost all MMOs allow you to sell off old armor for gold to buy new armor. Far too often in Neverwinter, you can only toss it into the recycler for refinement points. The system has been broken far too long to repair at this point. You have to deal with it or move on. This is why most of my characters in Neverwinter wear garbage blue rank armors from the auction or seal armors from the vendors. It is not worth the +0.0001% upgrade for the next set.
    ...
    And I think this is my biggest criticism of all regarding Cryptic's devs. they seem to have a great difficulty or just don't care about long term thinking, IWD brought the black ice system well before SKT, there was no need to add the voniblood system as they could be done using the black ice system prorpio again, mainly because they are maps of the same region, it would have been bad, but it still wouldn't be good since black ice is not a universal resource. I am not a hater here, on the contrary, I value the good development of ideas and dream of better days, I know how to understand the things that devs do, but many things together carry several errors and we cannot ignore them.
    ...
    My friends and I who have played over the years on this game, have the opinion (aka conspiracy theory) the developers never planned to keep Neverwinter running at full speed this long. Reminder, this is only a theory and we have no actual proof per say.

    Cryptic cranked out my favorite in 2009 and I am a huge fan as you can see by my signature. Then in 2010 they released Star Trek with the same engine. Next they planned out Neverwinter D&D online game using this engine plus rolled out the editor for UGC. All good so far.

    After the module 6 failure, in 2015, with the population already decreasing, they started to look forward to a fresh new MMO to jump into. It was no secret by 2016, they began making "Jurassic World MMO" and it was canceled. In 2017, we got their leftover dinosaurs in the form of Chult. By now, Cryptic Studios should already have 4 to 5 games and working on the next. Instead they got stuck repairing and promoting Neverwinter far beyond its temporary lifespan. Meanwhile Star Trek Online has been keeping up with the fans of the series and movies. Not much need for creative thinking when CBS and Paramount does it all for you. My friends and I believe that ever since the 2019 makeover of Neverwinter, they want to automate this game as they have Champions. However they need to keep this player base pleased until they can release Magic: Legends. If Magic is the new shiny game, they hope it will be, then they will pull some players from this pool and new players as well. After a year or two they can release another disposable game and set Magic on autopilot. In fact, this might be the reason Magic was downgraded from MMO to ARPG, it will be simpler to move on with an ARPG.

    We all know that when our characters share the same income, working together, the more you have the more money you make in the game. The same can be said about game companies. They don't care about long term projects, Neverwinter wasn't suppose to be the 8 year long run it has been. It has been my personal opinion, they made a big mistake ignoring Champions and not getting it on the consoles during all the DC and Marvel superhero movies released over the last 10 years.

    Just killing time...
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    greywyndgreywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 7,093 Arc User

    It has been my personal opinion, they made a big mistake ignoring Champions and not getting it on the consoles during all the DC and Marvel superhero movies released over the last 10 years.

    They never should have ignored CO and simplified so much of it. As for following the movies, people would want to play their version of any given character from the movies and homages tend to deleted or forced to change their clothes to avoid problems for Cryptic.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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    blargskullblargskull Member Posts: 514 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    It has been my personal opinion, they made a big mistake ignoring Champions and not getting it on the consoles during all the DC and Marvel superhero movies released over the last 10 years.

    They never should have ignored CO and simplified so much of it. As for following the movies, people would want to play their version of any given character from the movies and homages tend to deleted or forced to change their clothes to avoid problems for Cryptic.
    I know they got sued by Marvel (ancient history) for this IPR crud, but that isn't my point. With "superhero movies" being pop culture they should have got off the pot and on the stick. PWE owns a movie production company and PWP even made movies with Universal Studios.

    I would say with the exception of Dolittle and Cats, most of those films were watchable. :trollface:

    Just killing time...
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