Augment companions

jman3l

@noworries#8859 @nitocris83 augment companions are quite a bit behind active companions in terms of damage / utility added. The extra enhancements are not enough to close the gap. Instead of giving 85% of their stats like actives do, consider letting augments give 100% of their stats and then giving their enhancements as a % contribution on top of that.

highlyunstable

I agree.. Ran a Bulette before the update, was usually in the top 3 Paingivers.. now, players with summoned are kicking my butt as I still have an augmented. Everyone tells me now, summoned are the way to go for HDPS.

plasticbat

Augment and summoned has been the rotation of favorite in different generation. It has been many iterations already. Summoned has just been the favorite in this round. Nothing new. It is just a circle of life.

ultramath

Augments in group content can still be a good idea. The primary utility for having a summoned out is to help provide you with combat advantage against your enemies, to help stun or control mobs, or to absorb attacks that would otherwise be hitting you. Notice that a DPS in a group setting has all those bases covered for them! You got tanks, you got heals, you got other players taking up stray aggro and laying down DPS... if you play smart and the team works well together, having a summoned out won't make a huge difference tactically, and you could have been running augments the whole time and been fine.

Also, one could make the argument that a Wizard, in particular, could make a reasonable go of it solo with an augment companion, simply due to having access to the Nightmare Wizardry feat and a massive toolchest full of control abilities.

jman3l

ultramath#3953 said:

Augments in group content can still be a good idea. The primary utility for having a summoned out is to help provide you with combat advantage against your enemies, to help stun or control mobs, or to absorb attacks that would otherwise be hitting you. Notice that a DPS in a group setting has all those bases covered for them! You got tanks, you got heals, you got other players taking up stray aggro and laying down DPS... if you play smart and the team works well together, having a summoned out won't make a huge difference tactically, and you could have been running augments the whole time and been fine.

Also, one could make the argument that a Wizard, in particular, could make a reasonable go of it solo with an augment companion, simply due to having access to the Nightmare Wizardry feat and a massive toolchest full of control abilities.

At end game, augments are getting absolutely destroyed by actives, and its not even close. They went to cautious with augment design. Giving 100% of their stats to the player instead of 85%, and changing the enhancements to be a % contribution added on top of that still might not close the gap, but it would at least help. Its a shame, as a lot of players don't like active companions, and want the option to compete using augments. Because the gap is so large, most players are being forced into active companions. Warlords insignia bonus and indomitables give way too much damage to active companions, and even without those bonuses they STILL beat augments.

plasticbat

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

jman3l

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

In mod 18 and mod 19 actives were not destroyed by augments. Xuna and Abyssal Chicken were about even and maybe even slightly ahead. That is not true lol. Now there is a gigantic gap. It should be about equal, it shouldn't be an active or an augment. Both should be equally good.

zimxero

There is certainly a "small" imbalance now in favor of fighting companions.
My suggestion for future adjustment:

1. Reduce Warlord's Inspiration from 20% to 10%. (this would reduce active companion damage to about 80% of current)

2. Add characteristic boost to each augment:

Each augment would have a key characteristic and a missing characteristic.

White: +1 to key characteristic (Str, Int, Wis, Cha, Con, or Dex)
Green: +1 to another characteristic
Blue: +1 to another characteristic
Purple: +1 to another characteristic
Gold: +1 to another characteristic
Mythic: +1 more to the augment's key characteristic



The net difference would equalize battle companions and augments and remove consensus over which is generally best.
Having a key characteristic and a missing characteristic to each augment adds some individuality to them, and would impart augment users with about 1% extra damage overall. A Bulette Pup, for example, might have Constitution as key characteristc, and be missing intelligence. A Goldfish might have Charisma as a key characteristic, and lack Constitution.

jman3l

zimxero#8085 said:

There is certainly a "small" imbalance now in favor of fighting companions.
My suggestion for future adjustment:

1. Reduce Warlord's Inspiration from 20% to 10%. (this would reduce active companion damage to about 80% of current)

2. Add characteristic boost to each augment:

Each augment would have a key characteristic and a missing characteristic.

White: +1 to key characteristic (Str, Int, Wis, Cha, Con, or Dex)
Green: +1 to another characteristic
Blue: +1 to another characteristic
Purple: +1 to another characteristic
Gold: +1 to another characteristic
Mythic: +1 more to the augment's key characteristic



The net difference would equalize battle companions and augments and remove consensus over which is generally best.
Having a key characteristic and a missing characteristic to each augment adds some individuality to them, and would impart augment users with about 1% extra damage overall. A Bulette Pup, for example, might have Constitution as key characteristc, and be missing intelligence. A Goldfish might have Charisma as a key characteristic, and lack Constitution.

Interesting idea but I don't know that it would be nearly enough, as even if we got +6 STR on melee for example, that is only 1.5% more damage.. its tiny. I'd much rather they gave 100% of their stats as ratings and give an extra % contribution for their enhancements. That would be a significant damage increase.

damnacious

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

As a Fighter Vanguard tank, i used a "HDPS companion build" (thanks Eightydarkbob!), and as a result, i was, without fail, the top of the paingiver chart in any content unless a pure DPS build was of a similar IL and also using an identical quality of companion build.

These whole 'combat changes' were originally touted as being a 'redressing of the imbalance' created by such overpowered companions such as Xuna and Abyssal Chicken.

synyster3006

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

plasticbat

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

jman3l

plasticbat said:

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

Shouldn't their goal be overall player retention though? Lol

plasticbat

jman3l#5579 said:

plasticbat said:

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

Shouldn't their goal be overall player retention though? Lol

For them, it is side effect. People always keep on threatening leaving the game for whatever valid reasons they face. Some did leave and some did stay (after threatening). The goal is always the same, $.

jman3l

plasticbat said:

jman3l#5579 said:

plasticbat said:

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

Shouldn't their goal be overall player retention though? Lol

For them, it is side effect. People always keep on threatening leaving the game for whatever valid reasons they face. Some did leave and some did stay (after threatening). The goal is always the same, $.

Overall player retention = money, including retaining end gamers. A lot of people are quitting, and not because of the rework, many of them actually like the rework, its that they release the rework with so many issues. They ram it through too quickly, without taking the time to perfect it. They outsource game testing / bug debuffing to the players on live server. Its pretty ridiculous really.

That and ZC / TOMM queues are probably down by 90% post rework. Again, because they didn't put the time into figuring everything out and released a good rework in theory, but bugged to death with issues. Augments / Actives balance is just one of them.

plasticbat

jman3l#5579 said:

plasticbat said:

jman3l#5579 said:

plasticbat said:

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

Shouldn't their goal be overall player retention though? Lol

For them, it is side effect. People always keep on threatening leaving the game for whatever valid reasons they face. Some did leave and some did stay (after threatening). The goal is always the same, $.

Overall player retention = money, including retaining end gamers. A lot of people are quitting, and not because of the rework, many of them actually like the rework, its that they release the rework with so many issues. They ram it through too quickly, without taking the time to perfect it. They outsource game testing / bug debuffing to the players on live server. Its pretty ridiculous really.

"Augment"/Active iterations is a minor portion of the current stage. There are many other stuff that disappointed players. This one is a minor one comparing with the rest.

jman3l

Sure, but its an issue. It forces people into a certain play style that would rather the opposite play style. And we are offering simple solutions to fix this "minor issue." The funny thing is that they expect the players to test and offer feedback, and then don't often implement that feedback xD.

synyster3006

plasticbat said:

jman3l#5579 said:

plasticbat said:

synyster3006 said:

plasticbat said:

At end game, active was absolutely destroyed by augment before this change and other iteration in the past. A lot of players did not like augment and wanted the option to compete using active. Just circle of life. Augment will come back in the next iteration.

Well, if that's the path the game will take, then also all real end-game dps will quit and come back in the next iteration.

It has been like that many times. It is the path the game has been taken for years. Different group of 'real' end-game dps come and go.

Shouldn't their goal be overall player retention though? Lol

For them, it is side effect. People always keep on threatening leaving the game for whatever valid reasons they face. Some did leave and some did stay (after threatening). The goal is always the same, $.

Please, don't get me wrong. That wasn't a threat.
Those are the feeling of all the end-game players in PC. we always refused to play with active companions, because we don't like the idea of nerf ourself to make our companion deal more damage.

We're not asking to remove active companions, but just to balance them to augments.

But you're right, this is just a small issue compared to all others. But the issue remains, and we're feeling day by day as the Mimic Server of the console users.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jman3l

malheur2080 said:

Pre mod 16 most dps played with active companions, because of the debuffs they provided. I can't see a problem here. Atm, i still play with an augment, but i like to see supporters or dps which doing some damage with active companions. The problem is more the stackable defense reduction, why at the moment we see armies of companions melting all mobs.

We are calling for balance between them. A dps with an augment build should have the same output as a dps with an indomitable runestone and warlords inspiration build. Warlords needs to be nerfed to 5%, and not be able to stack (like artificer's persuasion). Indoms need a nerf to 10%.

coolgor28

Yes they can just lower indomidable and warlod and they call it, this is getting silly nerf one companion meta swap to another and people are focusing to much on companion to get their damage. And probably PC players have different mentality of the game from console on to use or not summoned for damage. And yes have 6 indomitable that will be worthless but this seems better.

darthpotater

Should we say:
"Augments are totally destroyed by active companions" or
"Augements are totally destroyed by 2 or 3 active companions with 6 indomitables and 3 warlords inspiration"?

Because is not the same. If the second is the true, maybe they adjust those few companions that are outperforming, or they adjust indomitables or WI.

And still, I have Xuna and chicken, I like using augments, but in my experience they are not destroying anything, they are better in certain circumstances, and I think they need a bit tweak, but I dont see that big difference.

synyster3006

I think the better way is to nerf Indomitables and Warlord. or we will come back here every day to make nerf every single overpowered companion they will find.

highlyunstable

WTHeck is wrong with you people... asking for a NERF? How about that BOOST or IMPROVE Augmented. Why is the "ONLY" fix ever applied is a NERF??? OH NO... his weapon is better then mine so NERF his.... Hey, his companion is stronger then mine, better NERF that too. Oh, and this gear is proc'ing more damage then mine.. how about a NERF??

Hmmm, let's see.... the Lionhearts do 10% damage and the Celestials do 7.5% so.. Let's NERF the Lionheart instead of BOOSTING the Celestials. I mean, for all the time, money, blood sweat and tears we put into this game, for GOD'S SAKE do NOT let us get stronger or more powerful!! That would just be HORRIBLE!!!!!!

Why the hell do you people even bother getting better gear, enchants, upgrade your companions??? Do you not realized that WILL make you stronger and more powerful?? Oh the Humanity.

eladonwarps

I agree with the unstable one above. I'm fine with the damage of active comps, my issue is that Augments are practically useless and provide very little gain. They need a higher contribution to player stats at all Qualities, not just Mythic.

vastano

highlyunstable said:

WTHeck is wrong with you people... asking for a NERF? How about that BOOST or IMPROVE Augmented. Why is the "ONLY" fix ever applied is a NERF??? OH NO... his weapon is better then mine so NERF his.... Hey, his companion is stronger then mine, better NERF that too. Oh, and this gear is proc'ing more damage then mine.. how about a NERF??

Hmmm, let's see.... the Lionhearts do 10% damage and the Celestials do 7.5% so.. Let's NERF the Lionheart instead of BOOSTING the Celestials. I mean, for all the time, money, blood sweat and tears we put into this game, for GOD'S SAKE do NOT let us get stronger or more powerful!! That would just be HORRIBLE!!!!!!

Why the hell do you people even bother getting better gear, enchants, upgrade your companions??? Do you not realized that WILL make you stronger and more powerful?? Oh the Humanity.

unfortunatly with this new system those who have spent millions of ad and thousands of rl $ are acually worse off then the new player running round with 30k il
how to fix it i dont have a clue but nerfing everything to death has always been the call of the envyists
and all nerfing does is annoy those that have spent hundreds of hours fighting the system to finally get

highlyunstable

It just seems to me that once someone finds a companion, weapon, or a piece of gear that may be working a bit better then intended, that is TOP priority for the devs to fix. With this new "Update" ( which I call a Dumpster Fire) we need every bit of advantage just to feel SLIGHTLY above mediocre. Gone are the days of ever being able to Fell like a true, Epic Warrior.

jman3l

highlyunstable said:

It just seems to me that once someone finds a companion, weapon, or a piece of gear that may be working a bit better then intended, that is TOP priority for the devs to fix. With this new "Update" ( which I call a Dumpster Fire) we need every bit of advantage just to feel SLIGHTLY above mediocre. Gone are the days of ever being able to Fell like a true, Epic Warrior.

Because nerfing a few overpowered options is easier than buffing every single augment dude lol. Use your brain. Nerfing indoms to 10% and warlords to 5% and removing stacking, that is way easier than adjusting all the augments. And you would have to adjust all augments, because not all of them add to damage for example.

eladonwarps

Except we don't need all Augments to be adjusted differently so they help damage. If they simply buffed the overall effectiveness of all Augments at baseline, that would also close the gap. That way, the Augments that tanks, healers, and dpsers all favor (rarely the same ones) are all a better option than right now.

highlyunstable

my point IS DUDE.... there are WAY more important things to fix in this game then a few companions or weapons that MAYBE hitting a bit harder then intended. There are STILL mobs in lvl 60 areas that will one shot LvL 80 players.. this is beyond wrong.
There are REAL bugs in the game that prevent players from completing certain content. It just seems that their whole concept is... OMG, players are getting stronger?? Got to fix that NOW.

dandare

To add my 5 cents - the active companions are finally useful and even lower tier ones find some use. I am fine with that despite being Augument player. Them being useful is a good thing.

Problem is that indeed the Auguments (even quite powerful ones) are now subpar to even mediocre active companions (it's not issue of few OP ones that just outperform Auguments by mile, even the weaker ones outperform all of them a bit).

Nerfing anything at this point would be spit in the face of people who spent gods know how much time and/or money into getting strong indomis and Xuna, or other companions.

I dunno really 'why' Auguments do not give 100% of their stats? I mean: pre change with good enough Bonding it was more than that, and the name would suggest they pretty much should give their strength to us to augument us.

Most endgame players I've met 3+ years ago and those I met recently are all more or less in favour of auguments and they are definitely in dire need of some power up as even those people resigned on using them. Suggestions above seem like honestly fair ones and I like attribute stat add one in particular(not due to strength which might be lacking but due to possibility of improving versatility).

Do not take my words as a gospel, I'm just a weirdo running around with Legendary Chicken despite having better options - just to see little fella stumble around. But count me as part of 'improve Auguments' faction at this point.