If you are having trouble after combat rework, read this!

ultramath

Hey guys, so lots of dismay I'm seeing all over the place in chat and here on forums about "the rework". Yes, things are quite different for most of us, and if you are very accustomed to how Neverwinter has been for the past few years in terms of playstyle and challenge level, then I am sure this latest patch has turned you upside down.

What you may not know is that this isn't the first time Neverwinter has been like this. Long, long ago... in the before-time... back when regen was a stat and the Lair of the Mad Dragon and Ebon Downs' fabled Idris were a thing you could do, the game played eerily similar to how it does right now. Trash mobs were dangerous. If you overpulled, you needed to run or you would die. Tactics were a thing. Pulling around corners, kiting, teaming up, healers, CC --> all of it MATTERED back then.

So, rather than wish or DEMAND that the rework could get reversed (because they clearly aren't going to do that -- this has been going on since November in the preview shard) I have assembled a few fun tips for how to survive in the brave new world, and maybe others can post some helpful stuff they are discovering/remembering from before as well.

1. Anything that kills off or controls trash mobs is really good right now. Daily powers recharge much more quickly than before, don't save them for a rainy day, use them! Yes, on trash mobs!

2. Healers are quite strong with the new update. My cleric is healing for A LOT of HP bar% compared to this morning. One Bastion of Health is pretty much going to refill you to full if you only hit one or two players with it. And this is a cleric that is NOT minmaxed in any way -- I'm still leveling at lvl 47 right now, and I'm in blues and greens with no enchants slotted.

3. Having and maintaining combat advantage during your battles is now very helpful, rather than an afterthought. If you are solo, having a companion to help do "pincer maneuvers" around mobs to keep your enemies "purpled" is not that hard, and pays off dividends. Pay attention to your positioning and move if you have to.

4. Speaking of companions, the ones that provide AoE control or damage are logically going to shine now. Yes, control matters now, because slowed or stunned enemies are easier to kite, and thus you can damage them without them damaging you as much (or at all). Did you know that the Ghost lady can "possess" trash mobs? In effect, she instantly "kills" a trash mob and turns them against their former monster friends. I wonder if THAT would be useful? Maybe the Wayward Wizard could even be an important ally? Slows and stuns whole groups of monsters? Hmmm....

If you guys want, please add to my list!

elmandakar

It's fine that tactics matters, it is not fine that tactic matters in areas in which my character should be much stronger than the mobs around, since it is way below my level. I could play with some challenge in Avernus and I never complained that mobs could kill me if I wasn't careful, but that was par for my level, now I die in areas where someone about 30 level lower should be able to play, how are they going to do that?

ultramath

elmandakar said:

It's fine that tactics matters, it is not fine that tactic matters in areas in which my character should be much stronger than the mobs around, since it is way below my level. I could play with some challenge in Avernus and I never complained that mobs could kill me if I wasn't careful, but that was par for my level, now I die in areas where someone about 30 level lower should be able to play, how are they going to do that?

Think about it. What this means for you is that your character level isn't as important as it used to be for PVE performance. Just adjust your mindset: instead of starting out as a freshly pimpled noob that somehow progresses to a literal demigod in the span of a few weeks of exercise, you now start out as a tough as nails beginner and progress into a hardened expert who still has to mind himself in a fight or get shot down by lowly goblins if he gets sloppy or lazy.

No more Disney World... you're in the wild, now. Respect your enemies.

autumnwitch

The problem is people are weaker in all zones now destroying any sense of progression. Removing progression from a D&D based game is like removing the force from a game about Jedi.

This update fundamentally changes how the game feels and is played from the ground up. They might as well rename it "NW Gauntlet" at this point and remove any sense of levelling from the game because it doesn't matter any more. All you do is fight just as hard no matter what you do and no matter what you accomplish it doesn't matter because you don't get stronger, you just get more stuff that really doesn't do anything different.

ultramath

autumnwitch said:

The problem is people are weaker in all zones now destroying any sense of progression. Removing progression from a D&D based game is like removing the force from a game about Jedi.

This update fundamentally changes how the game feels and is played from the ground up. They might as well rename it "NW Gauntlet" at this point and remove any sense of levelling from the game because it doesn't matter any more. All you do is fight just as hard no matter what you do and no matter what you accomplish it doesn't matter because you don't get stronger, you just get more stuff that really doesn't do anything different.

There's "no progression"? Really? I think you may be exaggerating here. A higher level character isn't going to struggle in Blacklake, for example, he just won't faceroll it any more.

Look, it's okay to be upset -- this was a big change. What may have been BiS and awesome yesterday may not cut it anymore or be absolute garbage now. But at some point you have to shake it off and adapt. You gotta change the way you think about this game, and if these changes are THAT off-putting to where you "just can't even", then may I humbly suggest you re-examine why you have been playing this game and what you have been getting out of it in the first place.

If you reveled in the idea of being an untouchable demigod slaughtering your way through hordes of enemies carrying entire dungeons on your back, then it could be pointed out that all you REALLY did was ruin the game for the rest of your hapless party who struggled to keep up with you while you blasted everything to ash with one hit. Yes, you were the leaderboard champion and it was your name on top, but what did you do to everyone else?

Is there a chance that maybe what makes some of us so upset with this update has very little to do with the actual game, and perhaps more to do with some of our egos being equalized? If you decide to keep playing Neverwinter, you may have to be a different kind of player. Things are not going to be so easy anymore. You might even have to be nice to people and work together as a team for some stuff.

elmandakar

ultramath#3953 said:

elmandakar said:

It's fine that tactics matters, it is not fine that tactic matters in areas in which my character should be much stronger than the mobs around, since it is way below my level. I could play with some challenge in Avernus and I never complained that mobs could kill me if I wasn't careful, but that was par for my level, now I die in areas where someone about 30 level lower should be able to play, how are they going to do that?

Think about it. What this means for you is that your character level isn't as important as it used to be for PVE performance. Just adjust your mindset: instead of starting out as a freshly pimpled noob that somehow progresses to a literal demigod in the span of a few weeks of exercise, you now start out as a tough as nails beginner and progress into a hardened expert who still has to mind himself in a fight or get shot down by lowly goblins if he gets sloppy or lazy.

No more Disney World... you're in the wild, now. Respect your enemies.

You are missing the point entirely. If is perfectly OK if I struggle in appropriate level areas, I actually want to struggle in those, what is not ok is struggling in areas far below my current level.
If I, at 80, cannot fight without dying several times in a level 60-70 area, how are 60-level PG supposed to play it? I never asked for Disney World, I just ask for an actually playable game. Not easy, just feasible.

ultramath

elmandakar said:

You are missing the point entirely. If is perfectly OK if I struggle in appropriate level areas, I actually want to struggle in those, what is not ok is struggling in areas far below my current level.
If I, at 80, cannot fight without dying several times in a level 60-70 area, how are 60-level PG supposed to play it? I never asked for Disney World, I just ask for an actually playable game. Not easy, just feasible.

I feel you, man... I'm not missing the point. I'm simply pointing out that the phrase "level-appropriate" doesn't mean what you think it means anymore. There is no more facerolling. ANYWHERE. FOR ANYONE. A level 80 can get overwhelmed by lower-level goblins. In fact, if you read my first post here, you might even recall that the goblin hordes are now FAR more dangerous than the humongously slow and easily-dodged trolls that follow them around. Lots of little guys chipping away at you reduce your health bar quickly, and if you can't wipe them out with AoE fast enough, you need to RUN. And you also need to figure out you're losing before it's too late and they got you. One spell cast from a Wayward Wizard companion can make the difference between you getting away alive or waking up at the campfire.

And after that, you may need to rethink what happened. What went wrong? Did you just bite off more than you can chew, or is there a problem with what skills you are using? Maybe you need to switch your loadout for a bit and try new stuff. Different mob groups may need different tactics. You might want to use the terrain to your advantage if you are facing mixed forces (melee and ranged enemies) and pull melee mobs out of line of sight from the archers or casters so you aren't getting hit by everyone all at once.

elmandakar

ultramath#3953 said:

I feel you, man... I'm not missing the point. I'm simply pointing out that the phrase "level-appropriate" doesn't mean what you think it means anymore. There is no more facerolling. ANYWHERE. FOR ANYONE. A level 80 can get overwhelmed by lower-level goblins. In fact, if you read my first post here, you might even recall that the goblin hordes are now FAR more dangerous than the humongously slow and easily-dodged trolls that follow them around. Lots of little guys chipping away at you reduce your health bar quickly, and if you can't wipe them out with AoE fast enough, you need to RUN. And you also need to figure out you're losing before it's too late and they got you. One spell cast from a Wayward Wizard companion can make the difference between you getting away alive or waking up at the campfire.

And after that, you may need to rethink what happened. What went wrong? Did you just bite off more than you can chew, or is there a problem with what skills you are using? Maybe you need to switch your loadout for a bit and try new stuff. Different mob groups may need different tactics. You might want to use the terrain to your advantage if you are facing mixed forces (melee and ranged enemies) and pull melee mobs out of line of sight from the archers or casters so you aren't getting hit by everyone all at once.

Actually, you are still missing my point.
Let's say I am level 40. I go into a level 40 appropriate are (or, let's say, an area where I have access once I am 40), but the tiniest mob there just one-shot kills me. I have to go back to lower level areas, where, however, I cannot drop or find or buy anything that can help me fight through the new area since THAT ONE is the area where I am supposed to get better equipment and start doing better in that very same area.
First time I set foot in Avernus I was easily killed, but I struggled and advanced until I got better. Until Yesterday I still had to trhead carefully but I could stand my ground against mobs and bosses, it was hard but playable. With the current level, I cannot fight in River District with my Avernus gear without diying at least once per encounter, and believe me I know how to dive and duck. If I were there at the proper level, with the proper level equipment, I'd be dead meat as soon as a mob just looked at me askance, with no chance on Earth to ever improve my gear enough to survive since, you know, I'd need to actually be able to survive in there to do that.
Do not look at the game from an 80-level PG perspective, look at it from the perspective of someone who is actually trying to play it from the start and advance through it, rather than get killed all the time everywhere with no chance to improve themselves enough to get through.

ultramath

elmandakar said:

Actually, you are still missing my point.
Let's say I am level 40. I go into a level 40 appropriate are (or, let's say, an area where I have access once I am 40), but the tiniest mob there just one-shot kills me. I have to go back to lower level areas, where, however, I cannot drop or find or buy anything that can help me fight through the new area since THAT ONE is the area where I am supposed to get better equipment and start doing better in that very same area.
First time I set foot in Avernus I was easily killed, but I struggled and advanced until I got better. Until Yesterday I still had to trhead carefully but I could stand my ground against mobs and bosses, it was hard but playable. With the current level, I cannot fight in River District with my Avernus gear without diying at least once per encounter, and believe me I know how to dive and duck. If I were there at the proper level, with the proper level equipment, I'd be dead meat as soon as a mob just looked at me askance, with no chance on Earth to ever improve my gear enough to survive since, you know, I'd need to actually be able to survive in there to do that.
Do not look at the game from an 80-level PG perspective, look at it from the perspective of someone who is actually trying to play it from the start and advance through it, rather than get killed all the time everywhere with no chance to improve themselves enough to get through.

Are you SURE you're not exaggerating? I'm solo leveling a currently lv47 cleric right now, and nothing one shots me. Nothing. I have blues and greens on, no special gear, no enchants... just the stuff from leveling chests and so on. Somehow I am doing fine in my level-appropriate area with exactly two deaths due to me experimenting with how much aggro I could handle after the update went live. I am running around just fine, taking out groups of mobs with Daunting Glow (the delayed-blast "bombs from above" spell you might have seen clerics using) and my AoE at-will. I heal anyone I see who is struggling. I am using a Ghost companion.

This morning I was one-shotting trash mobs or nearly so, with DG, but now it takes multiple casts.. as many as five or six on even the weakest opponents. My At-Will is filling in times between DGs as I dodge and kite around red areas. The game has become fun again. If I go to a lower level area, I will not struggle. I'm not struggling now. But I am not just expecting to kill everything easily now. I am using tactics. I am kiting, pulling around corners, separating melees from ranged (all you need is a big enough rock to stand behind). I am prioritizing trash mobs and AoE and using Dailies on them. My AP meter is never full -- as soon as I hear that DING it is getting used.

elmandakar

Yes, I am sure I am not exaggerating.

jules

My friend, if I am doing worse than before in a zone that fits where my toon is/was before, there is no progression.

arazith07

elmandakar said:

ultramath#3953 said:

I feel you, man... I'm not missing the point. I'm simply pointing out that the phrase "level-appropriate" doesn't mean what you think it means anymore. There is no more facerolling. ANYWHERE. FOR ANYONE. A level 80 can get overwhelmed by lower-level goblins. In fact, if you read my first post here, you might even recall that the goblin hordes are now FAR more dangerous than the humongously slow and easily-dodged trolls that follow them around. Lots of little guys chipping away at you reduce your health bar quickly, and if you can't wipe them out with AoE fast enough, you need to RUN. And you also need to figure out you're losing before it's too late and they got you. One spell cast from a Wayward Wizard companion can make the difference between you getting away alive or waking up at the campfire.

And after that, you may need to rethink what happened. What went wrong? Did you just bite off more than you can chew, or is there a problem with what skills you are using? Maybe you need to switch your loadout for a bit and try new stuff. Different mob groups may need different tactics. You might want to use the terrain to your advantage if you are facing mixed forces (melee and ranged enemies) and pull melee mobs out of line of sight from the archers or casters so you aren't getting hit by everyone all at once.

Actually, you are still missing my point.
Let's say I am level 40. I go into a level 40 appropriate are (or, let's say, an area where I have access once I am 40), but the tiniest mob there just one-shot kills me. I have to go back to lower level areas, where, however, I cannot drop or find or buy anything that can help me fight through the new area since THAT ONE is the area where I am supposed to get better equipment and start doing better in that very same area.
First time I set foot in Avernus I was easily killed, but I struggled and advanced until I got better. Until Yesterday I still had to trhead carefully but I could stand my ground against mobs and bosses, it was hard but playable. With the current level, I cannot fight in River District with my Avernus gear without diying at least once per encounter, and believe me I know how to dive and duck. If I were there at the proper level, with the proper level equipment, I'd be dead meat as soon as a mob just looked at me askance, with no chance on Earth to ever improve my gear enough to survive since, you know, I'd need to actually be able to survive in there to do that.
Do not look at the game from an 80-level PG perspective, look at it from the perspective of someone who is actually trying to play it from the start and advance through it, rather than get killed all the time everywhere with no chance to improve themselves enough to get through.

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

jules

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

Also: Consider this: Many of the newer players that came here to report this have 1 or 2 posts in total. They sought out the forum over this. When I started playing NW I couldn't give a rats HAMSTER about the forum. They are encountering obstacles that seem so hard they cannot do it otherwise - so NW is driving new players away right now. And if I look at my friendslist and how quickly people logged off after checking stuff out, the game cannot afford to lose both ends.

johnnystranger

Let me put it this way . Legacy quests , rewards 5 points for completing with Sybella per weekly quest . Each quest requires either doing 5 missions , killing enemies or doing heroics in an area . Now take for example Dread Ring . I can go in there and finish the quests say in 20 minutes . Now I’m not on live yet ( console ) , and if this 20 minutes turns into 30 , 40 minutes , it’s not good .
If doing a REDQ or RTQ in redundant dungeons takes 10-30 minutes longer , if indeed it can be completed , NOT GOOD .
If doing anything normal takes 2x plus longer to accomplish, game over IMO .
I play 7 of my 9 characters regularly ( because playing one play style is boring to me ) . All are equipped to tackle most content . With these changes I’m not sure that about 5 can even do Legacy quests , RTQ or REDQ in a timely manner . If they can’t , what else is there to do ? Run a 1 hour plus dungeon for a kettle hat ?
I’m not sure whom all asked for these changes ? Maybe they can go play Bloodborne ? Lmao
What made NW great was once you got strong enough you could roll through many low end areas . You could easily help new guild mates that were struggling with many of the lower end quests etc . Good luck getting help with EE quests for example if it sucks an hour or 2 of your time rather than 15m or so . I can see post in alliance , need help with ? Only to hear crickets .
I’m for change , change can be good . But changing a whole game , gear , attributes , enemy’s strength , etc ? I’m on the fence . I’ll wait till console gets this before I decide if I continue with NW but if nothing changes, from what intel I’m gathering from various sources regarding this update , what’s the point ?

Hopefully the team gets this dialed in a little better

arazith07

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

jules

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

elmandakar

arazith07 said:

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

Yesterday I did the daily River District quest with my main PG, which I only need to do because of the campaign boons. It normally takes about 30 mins, mostly because I need to wait for heroic encounters to spawn and sometimes there is none. I never die there unless I am extremely careless.
Yesterday it took most of the couple hours I have to play daily, in spite of not having any "deadtime" between encounters. I died at least one time per heroic, and I finished them only because there were 3-4 pther players around (normally I could solo them with no effort, which made sense since the difficulty level of that area was far below my PG rating… and HAD to make sense because that's not an area that makes me progress in any way except grinding a few units of currency for a campaign).
This means I made almost nothing else at all yesterday. That was not fun, it was like having a job, not playing a game.
And again, I am far stronger than that area requires to be. How are people on par with that area going to play it?

The new system is not wrong, this is not what I am saying, I understand the need for clearing it and making it more scalavbe but the balancing IS utterly wrong. They said we should have been able to log with the new system and play any content we played before without noticing the change too much. Well, we are not.
And just log into the game, read the chats in there, and you will see there is no "minority" complaining.

johnnystranger

15 minutes PF ? 13 m too long , bye bye 2x refining days , next ? Lol

arazith07

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

That's the thing though, I don't know how to play wizard. My Pre-M16 experience with it means nothing, I didn't even have a companion out to help dps. I was approaching it with a new player in mind. I was below the recommended item level even. Remember, this is an under geared character on what one of the worst dps classes taking 15 minutes, not an average player. My actual character did it much faster, < 3 minutes tops.

arazith07

johnnystranger#5900 said:

15 minutes PF ? 13 m too long , bye bye 2x refining days , next ? Lol

Please use context when reading and responding. Most people will still run this as fast as they can physically run through it.

jules

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

That's the thing though, I don't know how to play wizard. My Pre-M16 experience with it means nothing, I didn't even have a companion out to help dps. I was approaching it with a new player in mind. I was below the recommended item level even. Remember, this is an under geared character on what one of the worst dps classes taking 15 minutes, not an average player. My actual character did it much faster, < 3 minutes tops.

You cannot compare that. You cannot fake "new player" which is what Cryptic is doing with lvling too. I get that you mean well with this. But its not helping anybody else to basically say "what you think doesn't matter because I did it, I even cut an arm and a leg off and look, still working".

arazith07

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

That's the thing though, I don't know how to play wizard. My Pre-M16 experience with it means nothing, I didn't even have a companion out to help dps. I was approaching it with a new player in mind. I was below the recommended item level even. Remember, this is an under geared character on what one of the worst dps classes taking 15 minutes, not an average player. My actual character did it much faster, < 3 minutes tops.

You cannot compare that. You cannot fake "new player" which is what Cryptic is doing with lvling too. I get that you mean well with this. But its not helping anybody else to basically say "what you think doesn't matter because I did it, I even cut an arm and a leg off and look, still working".

How does any of this have to do with getting one-shot though? Experience isn't going to magically give you more defense.

jules

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

That's the thing though, I don't know how to play wizard. My Pre-M16 experience with it means nothing, I didn't even have a companion out to help dps. I was approaching it with a new player in mind. I was below the recommended item level even. Remember, this is an under geared character on what one of the worst dps classes taking 15 minutes, not an average player. My actual character did it much faster, < 3 minutes tops.

You cannot compare that. You cannot fake "new player" which is what Cryptic is doing with lvling too. I get that you mean well with this. But its not helping anybody else to basically say "what you think doesn't matter because I did it, I even cut an arm and a leg off and look, still working".

How does any of this have to do with getting one-shot though? Experience isn't going to magically give you more defense.

Okay, this here is defense as deflection

hexngone

johnnystranger#5900 said:

Let me put it this way . Legacy quests , rewards 5 points for completing with Sybella per weekly quest . Each quest requires either doing 5 missions , killing enemies or doing heroics in an area . Now take for example Dread Ring . I can go in there and finish the quests say in 20 minutes . Now I’m not on live yet ( console ) , and if this 20 minutes turns into 30 , 40 minutes , it’s not good .

If doing a REDQ or RTQ in redundant dungeons takes 10-30 minutes longer , if indeed it can be completed , NOT GOOD .

If doing anything normal takes 2x plus longer to accomplish, game over IMO .

I play 7 of my 9 characters regularly ( because playing one play style is boring to me ) . All are equipped to tackle most content . With these changes I’m not sure that about 5 can even do Legacy quests , RTQ or REDQ in a timely manner . If they can’t , what else is there to do ? Run a 1 hour plus dungeon for a kettle hat ?

I’m not sure whom all asked for these changes ? Maybe they can go play Bloodborne ? Lmao

What made NW great was once you got strong enough you could roll through many low end areas . You could easily help new guild mates that were struggling with many of the lower end quests etc . Good luck getting help with EE quests for example if it sucks an hour or 2 of your time rather than 15m or so . I can see post in alliance , need help with ? Only to hear crickets .

I’m for change , change can be good . But changing a whole game , gear , attributes , enemy’s strength , etc ? I’m on the fence . I’ll wait till console gets this before I decide if I continue with NW but if nothing changes, from what intel I’m gathering from various sources regarding this update , what’s the point ?



Hopefully the team gets this dialed in a little better

I (and many others) feel you pain. Since Sharandar is about to disappear, I've been trying to get my fresh 80 profession alts through the quests to obtain the boon points. In general, the quests that took 15 minutes to do, now take 3-4 times as long because every encounter becomes an adventure. As the OP stated, avoiding pulling trash mobs has become very important, as well as killing all the mob healers first. Several of the mini-dungeon bosses, with all the instant adds added to the game in mod 16, are now very much dependent on your companion choice (I'm a Wererat and Archer fan).

The big issue is the daily tasks now take 3-4 times longer to do, yet the rewards are the same. If the point of all this was to reduce the number of alts a player creates and supports, they have succeeded. If you are trying to invoke 6x/day and perform some profession work and ... this week ... run around areas opening Explorer Skill Nodes ... you will need a 36 hour day.

We shall see if upgrading those default white/common Con Artist/Sellsword/Wayward Wizard chars to Epic will be worth the AD.

arazith07

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

jules#6770 said:

arazith07 said:

This should not be happening, either what you are facing does need to be scaled down (things get missed, there are a lot of areas in the game), or something is bugged with your character. Most people are actually liking the changes, PE, forums, and discord noise is just the loud minority.

Actually there are quite a lot of people below lvl 80 complaining. I am sorry, but you will find threads in here about this, and if you ask people that just play this game casually or have mostly RP toons that did Shar/DR/you name it OR are still lvling are disappointed and ask what they can do to get back to where we've been before, which was stated WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

So I just did a DR lair on my level 70, 20k iL Thaumaturge with an augment where I just threw together random skills and feats because I haven't played that class since M15. Took about 15 minutes to do Phantasmal Fortress. Yes, mobs had more HP and they hurt a bit more, but it's not the OMG one shot killing that people are complaining about.

You are making the same mistake the devs do. You think that your personal experience with lvling is somehow relevant to all the other (new, opposite to you) players that do not like it. They will leave the game with a bad opinion and spread it - no matter if you take 15 minutes for a PF which is another topic about why I would even want to run a PF if it takes 15 minutes...

That's the thing though, I don't know how to play wizard. My Pre-M16 experience with it means nothing, I didn't even have a companion out to help dps. I was approaching it with a new player in mind. I was below the recommended item level even. Remember, this is an under geared character on what one of the worst dps classes taking 15 minutes, not an average player. My actual character did it much faster, < 3 minutes tops.

You cannot compare that. You cannot fake "new player" which is what Cryptic is doing with lvling too. I get that you mean well with this. But its not helping anybody else to basically say "what you think doesn't matter because I did it, I even cut an arm and a leg off and look, still working".

How does any of this have to do with getting one-shot though? Experience isn't going to magically give you more defense.

Okay, this here is defense as deflection

No, it's me trying to make sense of your point. You were the one responding to me saying that if one is getting one-shotted that there is a bug with the character, or that an area might have been missed with the preview testing. You brought DR into this, which is actually the first time someone mentioned a specific zone, so I went to check it myself.

elmandakar

ultramath#3953 said:

2. Healers are quite strong with the new update. My cleric is healing for A LOT of HP bar% compared to this morning. One Bastion of Health is pretty much going to refill you to full if you only hit one or two players with it. And this is a cleric that is NOT minmaxed in any way -- I'm still leveling at lvl 47 right now, and I'm in blues and greens with no enchants slotted.

I just noticed this part. Well, of course it is, HP have dropped on all characters, so the very same healing as before fills the bar whereas it only added a little before the update :-D I can almost heal myself fully with a radiant potion, but the potion isn't better, my health is much worse.

arazith07

elmandakar said:

ultramath#3953 said:

2. Healers are quite strong with the new update. My cleric is healing for A LOT of HP bar% compared to this morning. One Bastion of Health is pretty much going to refill you to full if you only hit one or two players with it. And this is a cleric that is NOT minmaxed in any way -- I'm still leveling at lvl 47 right now, and I'm in blues and greens with no enchants slotted.

I just noticed this part. Well, of course it is, HP have dropped on all characters, so the very same healing as before fills the bar whereas it only added a little before the update :-D I can almost heal myself fully with a radiant potion, but the potion isn't better, my health is much worse.

HP should have gone up for everyone. I know for all my toons that I am familiar with have a ton more HP. Radiant potions have indeed been changed too, a few days ago they only healed 65k, now it's 231k healed.

elmandakar

arazith07 said:

I just noticed this part. Well, of course it is, HP have dropped on all characters, so the very same healing as before fills the bar whereas it only added a little before the update :-D I can almost heal myself fully with a radiant potion, but the potion isn't better, my health is much worse.

HP should have gone up for everyone. I know for all my toons that I am familiar with have a ton more HP. Radiant potions have indeed been changed too, a few days ago they only healed 65k, now it's 231k healed.

Same difference, if you get much more damage per hit and heal more damage per potion/power you aren't actually healing more, you're being damaged more and healing the same, in perspective.