This reminded me of Mod14 where most had Masterwork weapons and the groups were only looking for players who had them. The good thing is that at the time I was only called to the last BOSS of CR, since the players owned the weapon but did not know how to run the content, while I with my Exhalted Primal yes
If you're an end game, you'll now have to have Lion for solo farm and MW for groups, which should be a low cost for a player at the top of vanguard.
The Earthen weapons (form the elemental evil (module 6 in 2015)) can up the dr until 25% dr And now the lion weapons will be 7.5% dr and the celestials is still give 0% dr. If you nerf lion weapons to balance for celestials why not nerf Earthen weapons because atm they are bis and cleary unbalance for tanks because we lose only 1250 IL so 12.5k hp = 15k with the bonus and 125 base dmg it is really worth we you can earn until 25% dr. We can earn +17.5% dr with earthen relative to lionheart. To got earthen weapons we need just farm 100 time the same BHE and to got Celestials/ lion we need to clean the hardest content for me it isnt logic earthen weapons are better than celestials or lion weapons because it isnt the same lvl for the difficulty For me it will be better if tanks can got their 7.5% dr on celestials, so they will be motivated to run zariel and now the situation at the moment where create a group and motivated tanks to run it is really hard.
I can give some suggestion 1) Get back about the lionheart nerf to keep the 10% dmg / dr / incoming healing 2) Up zariel wepons to 10% dmg / incoming healing and add 10% dr
3) Nerf old weapons artifact just a little bit link 25% dr =>15% dr because these weapons was created for a old module, a old system and the bonus is unbalance for the current mod.
The Earthen weapons (form the elemental evil (module 6 in 2015)) can up the dr until 25% dr And now the lion weapons will be 7.5% dr and the celestials is still give 0% dr. If you nerf lion weapons to balance for celestials why not nerf Earthen weapons because atm they are bis and cleary unbalance for tanks because we lose only 1250 IL so 12.5k hp = 15k with the bonus and 125 base dmg it is really worth we you can earn until 25% dr. We can earn +17.5% dr with earthen relative to lionheart. To got earthen weapons we need just farm 100 time the same BHE and to got Celestials/ lion we need to clean the hardest content for me it isnt logic earthen weapons are better than celestials or lion weapons because it isnt the same lvl for the difficulty For me it will be better if tanks can got their 7.5% dr on celestials, so they will be motivated to run zariel and now the situation at the moment where create a group and motivated tanks to run it is really hard.
I can give some suggestion 1) Get back about the lionheart nerf to keep the 10% dmg / dr / incoming healing 2) Up zariel wepons to 10% dmg / incoming healing and add 10% dr
3) Nerf old weapons artifact just a little bit link 25% dr =>15% dr because these weapons was created for a old module, a old system and the bonus is unbalance for the current mod.
The only problem with 10% on Celestial weapons, is that with lionheart you are goin to have same amount of damage bonus + IL (that is like 0.2% damage), but it will be always active and ready. They need to be much better that this imo
> @synyster3006 said: > The only problem with 10% on Celestial weapons, is that with lionheart you are goin to have same amount of damage bonus + IL (that is like 0.2% damage), but it will be always active and ready. > They need to be much better that this imo
The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
At this point kind of sick of the whole thing, with the devs wanting to nerf lionheart instead of bringing Celestial set up, I'd rather they just introduce a new bis set attainable in the newest dungeon. Stop with the trials for bis weapon sets, make trials the place you go for best chances at good rewards/things to sell. The reason everyone wants lionheart/celestial set to stay top is due to how frustrating it is to learn the trial, get enough people to run the trial, hope that you don't have that one guy who runs the wrong way killing the entire party, the extreme cost there can be to getting geared properly for it..just make trials lucrative with higher chances for leg mounts, exclusive skins for people to sell and so on, then we can be done with this whole thing.
> @azric#8402 said: > > @synyster3006 said: > > The only problem with 10% on Celestial weapons, is that with lionheart you are goin to have same amount of damage bonus + IL (that is like 0.2% damage), but it will be always active and ready. > > They need to be much better that this imo > > The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
———————————
It’s not just a matter of “I need Celestial let me overdps LH even if I don’t have skill”. We’re talking about something different here: those weapon comes from the harder Trial in the game, and deserves to be the best untill the next trial will come. We spent hours and money to finally finish it, and we got our reward from it.
Now what’s gonna happen if those changes goes to live, is that we will all have to come back to Lionheart (weapons that people can get also getting carried in TOMM) or even worse, at Masterwork weapons (an old set from the past, that you can just get from AH) I would feel really sad
> > The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting. > > ——————————— > > It’s not just a matter of “I need Celestial let me overdps LH even if I don’t have skill”. > We’re talking about something different here: those weapon comes from the harder Trial in the game, and deserves to be the best untill the next trial will come. > We spent hours and money to finally finish it, and we got our reward from it. > > Now what’s gonna happen if those changes goes to live, is that we will all have to come back to Lionheart (weapons that people can get also getting carried in TOMM) or even worse, at Masterwork weapons (an old set from the past, that you can just get from AH) > I would feel really sad
I agree they should be better absolutely but they are if they get the same percentage at 10% the proc is more stable especially if the leave the lock out off. (And they should throw d.r. in to the ability to. ) so if I had my way the proc would read thus: each time you use an encounter or daily power you get a stack of divine charge (duration 15 seconds, renewing every time an encounter or daily power is used) after 5 stacks(max 5) of divine charge you lose your stack of divine charge and gain a stack of divine fury(max 1) until the end of combat. Granting you 10% damage,out going healing, and damage reduction. This would make them a bit more power powerful than either mw or lh because once it's proced is a100% up time with more total il then either granting higher primal damage. And that gap will only increase as the fight goes on because the mw is even lower il than lh and lh proc isn't 100% damage or 100% damage reduction. It shifts between them. Also people have been getting carried through zc for months on ps4 so that is a bit moot. I got people in my alliance who can do zc but not tomm the mechanics are more transparent in zc and as for the Masterwork i honestly think anything Masterwork gear should be bound to account because it's honestly easier to get endgame than it is to get Masterwork completed lol
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
> > The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
>
> ———————————
>
> It’s not just a matter of “I need Celestial let me overdps LH even if I don’t have skill”.
> We’re talking about something different here: those weapon comes from the harder Trial in the game, and deserves to be the best untill the next trial will come.
> We spent hours and money to finally finish it, and we got our reward from it.
>
> Now what’s gonna happen if those changes goes to live, is that we will all have to come back to Lionheart (weapons that people can get also getting carried in TOMM) or even worse, at Masterwork weapons (an old set from the past, that you can just get from AH)
> I would feel really sad
I agree they should be better absolutely but they are if they get the same percentage at 10% the proc is more stable especially if the leave the lock out off. (And they should throw d.r. in to the ability to. ) so if I had my way the proc would read thus:
each time you use an encounter or daily power you get a stack of divine charge (duration 15 seconds, renewing every time an encounter or daily power is used) after 5 stacks(max 5) of divine charge you lose your stack of divine charge and gain a stack of divine fury(max 1) until the end of combat. Granting you 10% damage,out going healing, and damage reduction.
This would make them a bit more power powerful than either mw or lh because once it's proced is a100% up time with more total il then either granting higher primal damage. And that gap will only increase as the fight goes on because the mw is even lower il than lh and lh proc isn't 100% damage or 100% damage reduction. It shifts between them. Also people have been getting carried through zc for months on ps4 so that is a bit moot. I got people in my alliance who can do zc but not tomm the mechanics are more transparent in zc and as for the Masterwork i honestly think anything Masterwork gear should be bound to account because it's honestly easier to get endgame than it is to get Masterwork completed lol
Yh that solution may work too, but you have to consider another factor. Divine Fury stack is not 100% uptime in trials like Tomm or Zariel, because some phases lasts for more then 30 seconds (imagine if this stack last for 15 sec as you suggested..). So: both sets have their up and down moments, the fastest to reach the 10% bonus wins! You think is faster striking 5 encounter or gain some stamina back? Also not all classes can strike that much encounters when they want (and I’m not talking only about dps, think for example at tanks or healers). In the previous page I made a suggestion that, in my opinion could work fine.
I Wish Celestial got buffed instead of Lionheart getting nerfed. Even with nerfing Lionheart, it is still far better for a tank to use it, I dont know how it is for healers but for tanks it definetly is. Celestial does not have that nice Damage resitance bonus like Lionheart.
Well I have the Celestial I had hoped that it will be brought up to a level where it is Best for us tanks aswell but guess I will stay with my Lionheart or Earthen set.
Also if we say the older set/s is/are better, you do not have to nerf it and say it had to be done, so the newer set would be better, instead buff the newer set/s and leave the old ones how they are....I have nothing about changes and that we have to find New builds but stop nerfing stuff and making stuff more complicated... So far I do not see much freedom or that we can make special builds
My suggestion is make a system where we can bring old stuff back to a decent lvl or the New stuff should have more bonuse to Choose from depending on what roll you play as.
I think something like that was said on the last stream so rather take time an listen more to us when it comes to eqipment especialy if youre doing big changes like this and youre changing stuff so it works well with them, stuff we played hard to get are good but they dont stand out by much IMO
On their stream someone asked about people returning to old sets, if it'd be nerfed or brought up in item level, or if the loss to item level was the trade off. They said the item level difference is the trade off so nerfing very old sets would be another spit to the face, specially with people farming the old sets like crazy right now, wasting untold hours of everyone. Mirage set isn't working, Earthen having been mentioned a dozen times already is on their radar I'm sure, lionheart has just been kicked for absolutely no reason, people are spending over 4m+ for some mastercraft sets so its only time until that is taken down a peg to be below celestial. This is why they just need to leave the sets alone, next mod bring in weapon sets that have specific role bonuses like 10% damage and 10% AP gain for dps, 10% outgoing and crit strike for healers, 10% damage reduction and Awareness for tanks (stated ap for dps, as all dps have different fortes, makes it fairer for all). Have it drop from the current dungeon, stop with trials being bis weapon sets as getting 9 competent people for runs is frustrating. Having 4 other people you can run dungeons with is a lot more reliable. We were told back in mod 16 other's mistakes will not cause a failure for the group, that was one of their goals. In zariel and now tomm (again) if my partner tank doesn't taunt off me when they're suppose to, down I go as do my scrolls and buffs. People miss defensive call on white noise, down go half or more of the party. I hate situations where I feel I have no control, ran a baby zariel to help some people and had over 20 deaths in an hour because tank never hard taunted at the right time, several wipes because the off tank hard taunted during p2 while standing with dps. BABY ZARIEL, not regular.
On their stream someone asked about people returning to old sets, if it'd be nerfed or brought up in item level, or if the loss to item level was the trade off. They said the item level difference is the trade off so nerfing very old sets would be another spit to the face, specially with people farming the old sets like crazy right now, wasting untold hours of everyone. Mirage set isn't working, Earthen having been mentioned a dozen times already is on their radar I'm sure, lionheart has just been kicked for absolutely no reason, people are spending over 4m+ for some mastercraft sets so its only time until that is taken down a peg to be below celestial. This is why they just need to leave the sets alone, next mod bring in weapon sets that have specific role bonuses like 10% damage and 10% AP gain for dps, 10% outgoing and crit strike for healers, 10% damage reduction and Awareness for tanks (stated ap for dps, as all dps have different fortes, makes it fairer for all). Have it drop from the current dungeon, stop with trials being bis weapon sets as getting 9 competent people for runs is frustrating. Having 4 other people you can run dungeons with is a lot more reliable. We were told back in mod 16 other's mistakes will not cause a failure for the group, that was one of their goals. In zariel and now tomm (again) if my partner tank doesn't taunt off me when they're suppose to, down I go as do my scrolls and buffs. People miss defensive call on white noise, down go half or more of the party. I hate situations where I feel I have no control, ran a baby zariel to help some people and had over 20 deaths in an hour because tank never hard taunted at the right time, several wipes because the off tank hard taunted during p2 while standing with dps. BABY ZARIEL, not regular.
The problem is that the item level difference is not enough to overcome the damage difference. Take old masterworks for example:
Old Master works give 800 IL, so 1600 total item level between the two weapons. For a dps this gives 1.2*(1600)/10 damage. This is 192 damage added.
Lionheart's have 1200 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2400)/10 or 288
Celestial's have 1300 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2600)/10 or 312.
The damage difference due to item level is 120 (MW3 to Celestial) and 96 (MW3 to LH) respectively.
Now, on preview I have about 6520 damage. Subtract the 120 to get base with MW3, I'm at 6400. Going from 6400 to 6520 is a 1.875% damage increase. Now Celestial bonus is 7.5% that you must stack (5 encounters = 5 stacks). Some classes cannot even stack this very easily, which is why there are suggestions to lower it to 2 or 3 encounters to fully stack. I also did this for Lionhearts.
MW3 bonus is a 100% uptime 10% damage provided everyone in your group has it, -10% incoming damage, 10% outgoing healing (again all 100% uptime). I am ignoring additive % damage diminishing returns for simplicity:
Celestial is ~ 7.5% (not 100% uptime) + 1.875% < 10% Lionheart is ~7.5% (close to 100% uptime) + 1.5% < 10% MW3 is 10% with 100% uptime
MW3, an extremely old set wins. The item level difference is just not enough. @noworries#8859 everyone suggested a celestial buff to 10%, and to change the stacking a bit, 2 or 3 stacks, not 5, and to add DR. Nobody suggested nerfing lionhearts to match. That creates a huge problem with past weapon sets.
I did the math on several weapon sets and compared them to the two trial sets. If LH / Celestials stay at 7.5% (and Celestial stacking isn't changed somehow) these old sets will all beat them in damage, even given the item level decrease:
new MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime old MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime MW2 exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime non exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime Watcher weapons - depending on your stats, if you are capped, and if you can min max into other stats, gives ~8% to ~10.5% damage.
This is not good, and I didn't even take into account that the combined rating ratio on the trial weapon sets are lower, which means you need more stats to cap which yields a further slight decrease to damage.
The two solutions are either, buff celestials to 10%, (+change number of stacks and add DR or -incoming damage) and leave every other weapon set in the game alone, or for some reason nerf every set that is better than LH / celestials to 7.5%. The first choice is much less work.
On their stream someone asked about people returning to old sets, if it'd be nerfed or brought up in item level, or if the loss to item level was the trade off. They said the item level difference is the trade off so nerfing very old sets would be another spit to the face, specially with people farming the old sets like crazy right now, wasting untold hours of everyone. Mirage set isn't working, Earthen having been mentioned a dozen times already is on their radar I'm sure, lionheart has just been kicked for absolutely no reason, people are spending over 4m+ for some mastercraft sets so its only time until that is taken down a peg to be below celestial. This is why they just need to leave the sets alone, next mod bring in weapon sets that have specific role bonuses like 10% damage and 10% AP gain for dps, 10% outgoing and crit strike for healers, 10% damage reduction and Awareness for tanks (stated ap for dps, as all dps have different fortes, makes it fairer for all). Have it drop from the current dungeon, stop with trials being bis weapon sets as getting 9 competent people for runs is frustrating. Having 4 other people you can run dungeons with is a lot more reliable. We were told back in mod 16 other's mistakes will not cause a failure for the group, that was one of their goals. In zariel and now tomm (again) if my partner tank doesn't taunt off me when they're suppose to, down I go as do my scrolls and buffs. People miss defensive call on white noise, down go half or more of the party. I hate situations where I feel I have no control, ran a baby zariel to help some people and had over 20 deaths in an hour because tank never hard taunted at the right time, several wipes because the off tank hard taunted during p2 while standing with dps. BABY ZARIEL, not regular.
The problem is that the item level difference is not enough to overcome the damage difference. Take old masterworks for example:
Old Master works give 800 IL, so 1600 total item level between the two weapons. For a dps this gives 1.2*(1600)/10 damage. This is 192 damage added.
Lionheart's have 1200 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2400)/10 or 288
Celestial's have 1300 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2600)/10 or 312.
The damage difference due to item level is 120 (MW3 to Celestial) and 96 (MW3 to LH) respectively.
Now, on preview I have about 6520 damage. Subtract the 120 to get base with MW3, I'm at 6400. Going from 6400 to 6520 is a 1.875% damage increase. Now Celestial bonus is 7.5% that you must stack (5 encounters = 5 stacks). Some classes cannot even stack this very easily, which is why there are suggestions to lower it to 2 or 3 encounters to fully stack. I also did this for Lionhearts.
MW3 bonus is a 100% uptime 10% damage provided everyone in your group has it, -10% incoming damage, 10% outgoing healing (again all 100% uptime). I am ignoring additive % damage diminishing returns for simplicity:
Celestial is ~ 7.5% (not 100% uptime) + 1.875% < 10% Lionheart is ~7.5% (close to 100% uptime) + 1.5% < 10% MW3 is 10% with 100% uptime
MW3, an extremely old set wins. The item level difference is just not enough. @noworries#8859 everyone suggested a celestial buff to 10%, and to change the stacking a bit, 2 or 3 stacks, not 5, and to add DR. Nobody suggested nerfing lionhearts to match. That creates a huge problem with past weapon sets.
I did the math on several weapon sets and compared them to the two trial sets. If LH / Celestials stay at 7.5% (and Celestial stacking isn't changed somehow) these old sets will all beat them in damage, even given the item level decrease:
new MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime old MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime MW2 exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime non exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime Watcher weapons - depending on your stats, if you are capped, and if you can min max into other stats, gives ~8% to ~10.5% damage.
This is not good, and I didn't even take into account that the combined rating ratio on the trial weapon sets are lower, which means you need more stats to cap which yields a further slight decrease to damage.
The two solutions are either, buff celestials to 10%, (+change number of stacks and add DR or -incoming damage) and leave every other weapon set in the game alone, or for some reason nerf every set that is better than LH / celestials to 7.5%. The first choice is much less work.
It doesn't make any sense, Zariel being the most difficult/endgame trial and old weapons being better than her, I believe that the first solution said is the best, if it continues as it is, Zariel will literally die, without rewards and without the need to farm the weapons .
On their stream someone asked about people returning to old sets, if it'd be nerfed or brought up in item level, or if the loss to item level was the trade off. They said the item level difference is the trade off so nerfing very old sets would be another spit to the face, specially with people farming the old sets like crazy right now, wasting untold hours of everyone. Mirage set isn't working, Earthen having been mentioned a dozen times already is on their radar I'm sure, lionheart has just been kicked for absolutely no reason, people are spending over 4m+ for some mastercraft sets so its only time until that is taken down a peg to be below celestial. This is why they just need to leave the sets alone, next mod bring in weapon sets that have specific role bonuses like 10% damage and 10% AP gain for dps, 10% outgoing and crit strike for healers, 10% damage reduction and Awareness for tanks (stated ap for dps, as all dps have different fortes, makes it fairer for all). Have it drop from the current dungeon, stop with trials being bis weapon sets as getting 9 competent people for runs is frustrating. Having 4 other people you can run dungeons with is a lot more reliable. We were told back in mod 16 other's mistakes will not cause a failure for the group, that was one of their goals. In zariel and now tomm (again) if my partner tank doesn't taunt off me when they're suppose to, down I go as do my scrolls and buffs. People miss defensive call on white noise, down go half or more of the party. I hate situations where I feel I have no control, ran a baby zariel to help some people and had over 20 deaths in an hour because tank never hard taunted at the right time, several wipes because the off tank hard taunted during p2 while standing with dps. BABY ZARIEL, not regular.
The problem is that the item level difference is not enough to overcome the damage difference. Take old masterworks for example:
Old Master works give 800 IL, so 1600 total item level between the two weapons. For a dps this gives 1.2*(1600)/10 damage. This is 192 damage added.
Lionheart's have 1200 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2400)/10 or 288
Celestial's have 1300 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2600)/10 or 312.
The damage difference due to item level is 120 (MW3 to Celestial) and 96 (MW3 to LH) respectively.
Now, on preview I have about 6520 damage. Subtract the 120 to get base with MW3, I'm at 6400. Going from 6400 to 6520 is a 1.875% damage increase. Now Celestial bonus is 7.5% that you must stack (5 encounters = 5 stacks). Some classes cannot even stack this very easily, which is why there are suggestions to lower it to 2 or 3 encounters to fully stack. I also did this for Lionhearts.
MW3 bonus is a 100% uptime 10% damage provided everyone in your group has it, -10% incoming damage, 10% outgoing healing (again all 100% uptime). I am ignoring additive % damage diminishing returns for simplicity:
Celestial is ~ 7.5% (not 100% uptime) + 1.875% < 10% Lionheart is ~7.5% (close to 100% uptime) + 1.5% < 10% MW3 is 10% with 100% uptime
MW3, an extremely old set wins. The item level difference is just not enough. @noworries#8859 everyone suggested a celestial buff to 10%, and to change the stacking a bit, 2 or 3 stacks, not 5, and to add DR. Nobody suggested nerfing lionhearts to match. That creates a huge problem with past weapon sets.
I did the math on several weapon sets and compared them to the two trial sets. If LH / Celestials stay at 7.5% (and Celestial stacking isn't changed somehow) these old sets will all beat them in damage, even given the item level decrease:
new MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime old MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime MW2 exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime non exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime Watcher weapons - depending on your stats, if you are capped, and if you can min max into other stats, gives ~8% to ~10.5% damage.
This is not good, and I didn't even take into account that the combined rating ratio on the trial weapon sets are lower, which means you need more stats to cap which yields a further slight decrease to damage.
The two solutions are either, buff celestials to 10%, (+change number of stacks and add DR or -incoming damage) and leave every other weapon set in the game alone, or for some reason nerf every set that is better than LH / celestials to 7.5%. The first choice is much less work.
It doesn't make any sense, Zariel being the most difficult/endgame trial and old weapons being better than her, I believe that the first solution said is the best, if it continues as it is, Zariel will literally die, without rewards and without the need to farm the weapons .
Remembering that these feedbacks said after extreme study and tests, nothing is said in vain, we just want the game to always continue on the path of the best!
On their stream someone asked about people returning to old sets, if it'd be nerfed or brought up in item level, or if the loss to item level was the trade off. They said the item level difference is the trade off so nerfing very old sets would be another spit to the face, specially with people farming the old sets like crazy right now, wasting untold hours of everyone. Mirage set isn't working, Earthen having been mentioned a dozen times already is on their radar I'm sure, lionheart has just been kicked for absolutely no reason, people are spending over 4m+ for some mastercraft sets so its only time until that is taken down a peg to be below celestial. This is why they just need to leave the sets alone, next mod bring in weapon sets that have specific role bonuses like 10% damage and 10% AP gain for dps, 10% outgoing and crit strike for healers, 10% damage reduction and Awareness for tanks (stated ap for dps, as all dps have different fortes, makes it fairer for all). Have it drop from the current dungeon, stop with trials being bis weapon sets as getting 9 competent people for runs is frustrating. Having 4 other people you can run dungeons with is a lot more reliable. We were told back in mod 16 other's mistakes will not cause a failure for the group, that was one of their goals. In zariel and now tomm (again) if my partner tank doesn't taunt off me when they're suppose to, down I go as do my scrolls and buffs. People miss defensive call on white noise, down go half or more of the party. I hate situations where I feel I have no control, ran a baby zariel to help some people and had over 20 deaths in an hour because tank never hard taunted at the right time, several wipes because the off tank hard taunted during p2 while standing with dps. BABY ZARIEL, not regular.
The problem is that the item level difference is not enough to overcome the damage difference. Take old masterworks for example:
Old Master works give 800 IL, so 1600 total item level between the two weapons. For a dps this gives 1.2*(1600)/10 damage. This is 192 damage added.
Lionheart's have 1200 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2400)/10 or 288
Celestial's have 1300 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2600)/10 or 312.
The damage difference due to item level is 120 (MW3 to Celestial) and 96 (MW3 to LH) respectively.
Now, on preview I have about 6520 damage. Subtract the 120 to get base with MW3, I'm at 6400. Going from 6400 to 6520 is a 1.875% damage increase. Now Celestial bonus is 7.5% that you must stack (5 encounters = 5 stacks). Some classes cannot even stack this very easily, which is why there are suggestions to lower it to 2 or 3 encounters to fully stack. I also did this for Lionhearts.
MW3 bonus is a 100% uptime 10% damage provided everyone in your group has it, -10% incoming damage, 10% outgoing healing (again all 100% uptime). I am ignoring additive % damage diminishing returns for simplicity:
Celestial is ~ 7.5% (not 100% uptime) + 1.875% < 10% Lionheart is ~7.5% (close to 100% uptime) + 1.5% < 10% MW3 is 10% with 100% uptime
MW3, an extremely old set wins. The item level difference is just not enough. @noworries#8859 everyone suggested a celestial buff to 10%, and to change the stacking a bit, 2 or 3 stacks, not 5, and to add DR. Nobody suggested nerfing lionhearts to match. That creates a huge problem with past weapon sets.
I did the math on several weapon sets and compared them to the two trial sets. If LH / Celestials stay at 7.5% (and Celestial stacking isn't changed somehow) these old sets will all beat them in damage, even given the item level decrease:
new MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime old MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime MW2 exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime non exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime Watcher weapons - depending on your stats, if you are capped, and if you can min max into other stats, gives ~8% to ~10.5% damage.
This is not good, and I didn't even take into account that the combined rating ratio on the trial weapon sets are lower, which means you need more stats to cap which yields a further slight decrease to damage.
The two solutions are either, buff celestials to 10%, (+change number of stacks and add DR or -incoming damage) and leave every other weapon set in the game alone, or for some reason nerf every set that is better than LH / celestials to 7.5%. The first choice is much less work.
Remembering that these feedbacks said after extreme study and tests, nothing is said in vain, we just want the game to always continue on the path of the best!
> @synyster3006 said: > Yh that solution may work too, but you have to consider another factor. > Divine Fury stack is not 100% uptime in trials like Tomm or Zariel, because some phases lasts for more then 30 seconds (imagine if this stack last for 15 sec as you suggested..). > So: both sets have their up and down moments, the fastest to reach the 10% bonus wins! > You think is faster striking 5 encounter or gain some stamina back? Also not all classes can strike that much encounters when they want (and I’m not talking only about dps, think for example at tanks or healers). > In the previous page I made a suggestion that, in my opinion could work fine.
The uptime is 100%once divine fury is active. That stack of divine fury lasts until combat ends is what I was saying. And as for the 5 stacks any class including warlocks and fighters can proc 5 encounters or daily in the time limit of the stack refreshes every time another encounter or daily is used(which i belive is how it is now) if they are smart and don't just spam their encounters. What it breaks down to is you have 15 seconds to pop the next encounter or daily after you pop your last. Giving you time to at will between encounters so the cool downs are spread out and when then end of the encounters are spent your not wait waiting 16 seconds to pop encounter 4 and 5
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
@noworries#8859 rumor has it that preview patch is delayed for this lionheart change. Please read our comments about how exactly 0% of the player base wants LH's nerfed. We want Celestials buffed. Please see the last 20 comments in this thread.
I think that they need augment that you craft for only making the buffs for your weapons - the bronzes weapons I really think is a waste of crafting time. I really think if they went this way it would make the players happy an they do not have to lose the weapons that they have grind for the 3rd time.
I love to play MMO's & 1st person shooters. An when I am not playing I rebuild & trouble shoot computers.
Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
> @nisckis said: > Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
Not even close. I run a fighter and max butcher stacks all the time and they have some of the longest cool down in the game some reaching 18 seconds. But I never have 15 seconds between encounters. That is my suggesting for the celestial set. That each new stack refreshes all stacks of divine charge and that the stack of divine fury lasts until combat is over
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
I'm able to max stacks on hunter, assassin and arbiter for goristro's horns. It helps that Ribcage is easier to proc. It helps proc 10 stacks of goristro's. Anyway, some feedback on some remaining T3 gear:
Greaves of the Lightguard: change 7500 power to 7.5% power, or if splitting it up is desired, 3.75% power / 3.75% something. Upper Pact Bonds of the Inferno / Blaze Bond: change 5000 power to 5% power, or "similar to above".
I'd still like to see the other shirt (hell's negotiator?) change to deflect bonus for tanks if possible. Tanks need some love.
Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
I'm able to max stacks on hunter, assassin and arbiter for goristro's horns. It helps that Ribcage is easier to proc. It helps proc 10 stacks of goristro's. Anyway, some feedback on some remaining T3 gear:
Greaves of the Lightguard: change 7500 power to 7.5% power, or if splitting it up is desired, 3.75% power / 3.75% something. Upper Pact Bonds of the Inferno / Blaze Bond: change 5000 power to 5% power, or "similar to above".
I'd still like to see the other shirt (hell's negotiator?) change to deflect bonus for tanks if possible. Tanks need some love.
I'm warlock... by the way what I tried to point is that equip bonuses with stack should have a unique countdown that refreshes when a new stack is generated. This way the classes and paragons with long encounter cooldown and with mostly Damage over Time encounters can use the equipment similar to everyone else.
Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
I'm able to max stacks on hunter, assassin and arbiter for goristro's horns. It helps that Ribcage is easier to proc. It helps proc 10 stacks of goristro's. Anyway, some feedback on some remaining T3 gear:
Greaves of the Lightguard: change 7500 power to 7.5% power, or if splitting it up is desired, 3.75% power / 3.75% something. Upper Pact Bonds of the Inferno / Blaze Bond: change 5000 power to 5% power, or "similar to above".
I'd still like to see the other shirt (hell's negotiator?) change to deflect bonus for tanks if possible. Tanks need some love.
I'm warlock... by the way what I tried to point is that equip bonuses with stack should have a unique countdown that refreshes when a new stack is generated. This way the classes and paragons with long encounter cooldown and with mostly Damage over Time encounters can use the equipment similar to everyone else.
That is why a lot of players proposed reducing the HP requirement to 5% instead of 10%. The refreshing would also fix this. Either way is fine.
There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.
On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.
This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.
Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
Pay to win? have you ever tried master crafting? that is a pain in the butt and the crafters earned it.
> @nisckis said: > I'm warlock... by the way what I tried to point is that equip bonuses with stack should have a unique countdown that refreshes when a new stack is generated. This way the classes and paragons with long encounter cooldown and with mostly Damage over Time encounters can use the equipment similar to everyone else.
And I run a fighter and my second in command runs a warlock nether of us has trouble maxing stacks proper rotation ensure there is never more than about 8 seconds between encounters on any class.
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
> @phzdout said: > Pay to win? have you ever tried master crafting? that is a pain in the butt and the crafters earned it.
Right?! That is why I think they should be bound to account while the reagents needed remain unbound so they can still make their scratch and have a weapon set that is a good as and arguably harder than getting either lh or celestial.
Don't confuse skill with a little luck you daft fool
For PVPers, there has been some chatter about these very old drowned weapons from the elemental evil campaign. The set bonus on them probably needs a nerf or at least make it more obtainable.
These weapons are only obtainable for players who haven't already done the 100 motes quest for them in the past. There is also a very rare weapon choice pack with these weapons you can buy off the AH but there aren't many of these left in existence.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
And I'll add to the voices saying that more of the hunt gear should be tweaked since most of it has power granting equip bonuses and these bonuses probably won't be appealing in mod 20.
The new gear and artifact set for mod 20 also is very underwhelming, its mostly clones of already available gear, and a lot of it has power granting equip bonuses.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.
On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.
Please do not nerf lionheart weapons. I'm ok with buffing/reworking celestial, and don't have any issue with masterwork being good, but lionheart should be left alone.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Comments
If you're an end game, you'll now have to have Lion for solo farm and MW for groups, which should be a low cost for a player at the top of vanguard.
The Earthen weapons (form the elemental evil (module 6 in 2015)) can up the dr until 25% dr
And now the lion weapons will be 7.5% dr and the celestials is still give 0% dr.
If you nerf lion weapons to balance for celestials why not nerf Earthen weapons because atm they are bis and cleary unbalance for tanks because we lose only 1250 IL so 12.5k hp = 15k with the bonus and 125 base dmg it is really worth we you can earn until 25% dr.
We can earn +17.5% dr with earthen relative to lionheart.
To got earthen weapons we need just farm 100 time the same BHE and to got Celestials/ lion we need to clean the hardest content for me it isnt logic earthen weapons are better than celestials or lion weapons because it isnt the same lvl for the difficulty
For me it will be better if tanks can got their 7.5% dr on celestials, so they will be motivated to run zariel and now the situation at the moment where create a group and motivated tanks to run it is really hard.
I can give some suggestion
1) Get back about the lionheart nerf to keep the 10% dmg / dr / incoming healing
2) Up zariel wepons to 10% dmg / incoming healing and add 10% dr
3) Nerf old weapons artifact just a little bit link 25% dr =>15% dr because these weapons was created for a old module, a old system and the bonus is unbalance for the current mod.
They need to be much better that this imo
> The only problem with 10% on Celestial weapons, is that with lionheart you are goin to have same amount of damage bonus + IL (that is like 0.2% damage), but it will be always active and ready.
> They need to be much better that this imo
The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
> > @synyster3006 said:
> > The only problem with 10% on Celestial weapons, is that with lionheart you are goin to have same amount of damage bonus + IL (that is like 0.2% damage), but it will be always active and ready.
> > They need to be much better that this imo
>
> The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
———————————
It’s not just a matter of “I need Celestial let me overdps LH even if I don’t have skill”.
We’re talking about something different here: those weapon comes from the harder Trial in the game, and deserves to be the best untill the next trial will come.
We spent hours and money to finally finish it, and we got our reward from it.
Now what’s gonna happen if those changes goes to live, is that we will all have to come back to Lionheart (weapons that people can get also getting carried in TOMM) or even worse, at Masterwork weapons (an old set from the past, that you can just get from AH)
I would feel really sad
> > @azric#8402 said:
> > > @synyster3006 said:
> > The two trials are roughly comparable in difficulty once you are geared up for zc. So having a grand prize only slightly better is the perfect balance. Celestial runners don't they they are good enough even tho they will out dps the exact same build only with L.H. and with a big enough gap to make everyone want to get them. It also make play style more relevant because it is only a portion of a percentage of you play badly it won't matter what weapon set you got you won't be leading the team. Definitely a much better compromise then cheapening the accomplishments of those who succeed in t.o.m.m. also many forget that the L. H. Switches between offensive and defensive depending on stamina. And in trial like z.c. and t.o.m.m. dps does a lot of sprinting.
>
> ———————————
>
> It’s not just a matter of “I need Celestial let me overdps LH even if I don’t have skill”.
> We’re talking about something different here: those weapon comes from the harder Trial in the game, and deserves to be the best untill the next trial will come.
> We spent hours and money to finally finish it, and we got our reward from it.
>
> Now what’s gonna happen if those changes goes to live, is that we will all have to come back to Lionheart (weapons that people can get also getting carried in TOMM) or even worse, at Masterwork weapons (an old set from the past, that you can just get from AH)
> I would feel really sad
I agree they should be better absolutely but they are if they get the same percentage at 10% the proc is more stable especially if the leave the lock out off. (And they should throw d.r. in to the ability to. ) so if I had my way the proc would read thus:
each time you use an encounter or daily power you get a stack of divine charge (duration 15 seconds, renewing every time an encounter or daily power is used) after 5 stacks(max 5) of divine charge you lose your stack of divine charge and gain a stack of divine fury(max 1) until the end of combat. Granting you 10% damage,out going healing, and damage reduction.
This would make them a bit more power powerful than either mw or lh because once it's proced is a100% up time with more total il then either granting higher primal damage. And that gap will only increase as the fight goes on because the mw is even lower il than lh and lh proc isn't 100% damage or 100% damage reduction. It shifts between them. Also people have been getting carried through zc for months on ps4 so that is a bit moot. I got people in my alliance who can do zc but not tomm the mechanics are more transparent in zc and as for the Masterwork i honestly think anything Masterwork gear should be bound to account because it's honestly easier to get endgame than it is to get Masterwork completed lol
Divine Fury stack is not 100% uptime in trials like Tomm or Zariel, because some phases lasts for more then 30 seconds (imagine if this stack last for 15 sec as you suggested..).
So: both sets have their up and down moments, the fastest to reach the 10% bonus wins!
You think is faster striking 5 encounter or gain some stamina back? Also not all classes can strike that much encounters when they want (and I’m not talking only about dps, think for example at tanks or healers).
In the previous page I made a suggestion that, in my opinion could work fine.
Well I have the Celestial I had hoped that it will be brought up to a level where it is Best for us tanks aswell but guess I will stay with my Lionheart or Earthen set.
Also if we say the older set/s is/are better, you do not have to nerf it and say it had to be done, so the newer set would be better, instead buff the newer set/s and leave the old ones how they are....I have nothing about changes and that we have to find New builds but stop nerfing stuff and making stuff more complicated... So far I do not see much freedom or that we can make special builds
My suggestion is make a system where we can bring old stuff back to a decent lvl or the New stuff should have more bonuse to Choose from depending on what roll you play as.
I think something like that was said on the last stream so rather take time an listen more to us when it comes to eqipment especialy if youre doing big changes like this and youre changing stuff so it works well with them, stuff we played hard to get are good but they dont stand out by much IMO
Old Master works give 800 IL, so 1600 total item level between the two weapons. For a dps this gives 1.2*(1600)/10 damage. This is 192 damage added.
Lionheart's have 1200 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2400)/10 or 288
Celestial's have 1300 IL each, so the dps addition is 1.2*(2600)/10 or 312.
The damage difference due to item level is 120 (MW3 to Celestial) and 96 (MW3 to LH) respectively.
Now, on preview I have about 6520 damage. Subtract the 120 to get base with MW3, I'm at 6400. Going from 6400 to 6520 is a 1.875% damage increase. Now Celestial bonus is 7.5% that you must stack (5 encounters = 5 stacks). Some classes cannot even stack this very easily, which is why there are suggestions to lower it to 2 or 3 encounters to fully stack. I also did this for Lionhearts.
MW3 bonus is a 100% uptime 10% damage provided everyone in your group has it, -10% incoming damage, 10% outgoing healing (again all 100% uptime). I am ignoring additive % damage diminishing returns for simplicity:
Celestial is ~ 7.5% (not 100% uptime) + 1.875% < 10%
Lionheart is ~7.5% (close to 100% uptime) + 1.5% < 10%
MW3 is 10% with 100% uptime
MW3, an extremely old set wins. The item level difference is just not enough. @noworries#8859 everyone suggested a celestial buff to 10%, and to change the stacking a bit, 2 or 3 stacks, not 5, and to add DR. Nobody suggested nerfing lionhearts to match. That creates a huge problem with past weapon sets.
I did the math on several weapon sets and compared them to the two trial sets. If LH / Celestials stay at 7.5% (and Celestial stacking isn't changed somehow) these old sets will all beat them in damage, even given the item level decrease:
new MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime
old MW3 - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime
MW2
exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime
non exalted primals - gives 10% damage, 100% uptime
Watcher weapons - depending on your stats, if you are capped, and if you can min max into other stats, gives ~8% to ~10.5% damage.
This is not good, and I didn't even take into account that the combined rating ratio on the trial weapon sets are lower, which means you need more stats to cap which yields a further slight decrease to damage.
The two solutions are either, buff celestials to 10%, (+change number of stacks and add DR or -incoming damage) and leave every other weapon set in the game alone, or for some reason nerf every set that is better than LH / celestials to 7.5%. The first choice is much less work.
Remembering that these feedbacks said after extreme study and tests, nothing is said in vain, we just want the game to always continue on the path of the best!
> Yh that solution may work too, but you have to consider another factor.
> Divine Fury stack is not 100% uptime in trials like Tomm or Zariel, because some phases lasts for more then 30 seconds (imagine if this stack last for 15 sec as you suggested..).
> So: both sets have their up and down moments, the fastest to reach the 10% bonus wins!
> You think is faster striking 5 encounter or gain some stamina back? Also not all classes can strike that much encounters when they want (and I’m not talking only about dps, think for example at tanks or healers).
> In the previous page I made a suggestion that, in my opinion could work fine.
The uptime is 100%once divine fury is active. That stack of divine fury lasts until combat ends is what I was saying. And as for the 5 stacks any class including warlocks and fighters can proc 5 encounters or daily in the time limit of the stack refreshes every time another encounter or daily is used(which i belive is how it is now) if they are smart and don't just spam their encounters. What it breaks down to is you have 15 seconds to pop the next encounter or daily after you pop your last. Giving you time to at will between encounters so the cool downs are spread out and when then end of the encounters are spent your not wait waiting 16 seconds to pop encounter 4 and 5
> Each stack from T3 equipment bonus (Goristro horns included) has its own countdown so new stacks are not extending the old ones, this makes basically impossible reaching the max number of stacks.
Not even close. I run a fighter and max butcher stacks all the time and they have some of the longest cool down in the game some reaching 18 seconds. But I never have 15 seconds between encounters. That is my suggesting for the celestial set. That each new stack refreshes all stacks of divine charge and that the stack of divine fury lasts until combat is over
Greaves of the Lightguard: change 7500 power to 7.5% power, or if splitting it up is desired, 3.75% power / 3.75% something.
Upper Pact Bonds of the Inferno / Blaze Bond: change 5000 power to 5% power, or "similar to above".
I'd still like to see the other shirt (hell's negotiator?) change to deflect bonus for tanks if possible. Tanks need some love.
> I'm warlock... by the way what I tried to point is that equip bonuses with stack should have a unique countdown that refreshes when a new stack is generated. This way the classes and paragons with long encounter cooldown and with mostly Damage over Time encounters can use the equipment similar to everyone else.
And I run a fighter and my second in command runs a warlock nether of us has trouble maxing stacks proper rotation ensure there is never more than about 8 seconds between encounters on any class.
> Pay to win? have you ever tried master crafting? that is a pain in the butt and the crafters earned it.
Right?! That is why I think they should be bound to account while the reagents needed remain unbound so they can still make their scratch and have a weapon set that is a good as and arguably harder than getting either lh or celestial.
These weapons are only obtainable for players who haven't already done the 100 motes quest for them in the past. There is also a very rare weapon choice pack with these weapons you can buy off the AH but there aren't many of these left in existence.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The new gear and artifact set for mod 20 also is very underwhelming, its mostly clones of already available gear, and a lot of it has power granting equip bonuses.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC