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  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    Is Dread working yet?

    Terror still seems underpowered. I think a side effect should be added to it. Can't just keep buffing it or it would become a 'Ranger's only' weapon enchantment.

    No one seems excited about Plaguefire or Feytouched enchantments either.

    Terror enchantment is poor game design. Anything that activates on daily for 10 seconds is effectively useless. Bilethorn is also overpowered. It should be changed back to 40 mag or 45 magnitude MAX. Its way too much damage on some classes.
  • abwabwabaabwabwaba Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    Plague Fire now decreases your target’s Critical Avoidance by up to 1.5% per stack. Do enemies have critical avoidance at all?
    If no, then what happens? Nothing?
    Hide The Pain Harold!
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    From our last tomm finished run on last patch bile on my barb was=9% overall damage , same run hr with vorpal=5% overall damage, now vorpal gives also 4%crit chance and severity i don't see where is this huge difference ,
    The problem is people can cap crit and crit sev with pots and gear so to make vorpal worth it the 4% crit and sev need to balance those and not nerf bile bc some classes are doing more with bile, well hr and dc are doing more with they power so what we ask for them to be nerfed ?
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • admiralwarlord#3792 admiralwarlord Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    supmadbro said:

    > @admiralwarlord#3792 said:

    > That's an interesting variable that the combat change has brought, choices. I chose at first to invest in Critical Strike and Critical Severity, all for the sake of economics. I will not do my daily quests with potions and other things that make me costly and deviate from my primary investments that will be in mounts and companions. As well, I will not race with a fellow fighter just to generate me CA, since this would also bring me costs and lose status. I think vorpal is in a good place in the preview, what's wrong is the Bile that destoa in much of other enchants with Faming for example.



    So you're gonna Invest in a Vorpal just to do daily quests but not some potions that you can get for free from invoking?

    I already have a vorpal that stays on my CW. My GWF always runs with the Light and he doesn't even need Vorpal's status at first.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User

    From our last tomm finished run on last patch bile on my barb was=9% overall damage , same run hr with vorpal=5% overall damage, now vorpal gives also 4%crit chance and severity i don't see where is this huge difference ,
    The problem is people can cap crit and crit sev with pots and gear so to make vorpal worth it the 4% crit and sev need to balance those and not nerf bile bc some classes are doing more with bile, well hr and dc are doing more with they power so what we ask for them to be nerfed ?

    Well that depends if those potions remain as is or if they are reworked. Bilethorn is doing quite a lot for some classes. For barbarians I've seen above 10%, warlocks 12%+ etc.
  • coolgor28#5062 coolgor28 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 79 Arc User
    Well i don't know it seems that t3 armor and goristo are giving a lot of stats =damage and those are gear, bile is weapon enchant that cost like 9M now, so it need to be worth a little bit more then a gear bc we change gear a lot but enchants we keep them like forever. We cant ask bc one weapon enchant is better in some classes to nerf it as you see there is different % on each class. In the end doesn't matter will be like 2 or 4% from weapon damage is not big deal, the more worry thing is now that everything is like 100% crit chance daily's and tv and all powers then one weapon enchant.
    Guild

    The imaginary Friends

    Main Kingslayer.jr(barb)
  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,399 Arc User
    There is a lot of information flowing regarding the changes, something I've not see yet is the Brilliant Energy Enchantment. Right now it does weapon damage that ignores 50% of the targets resistances. Going through the intro to Sharandar on a naked toon this enchant seems to be doing consistant low damage but it's a pretty looking enchant and would be cool to use it again!!

    Combat (Self)]Your Brilliant Energy Weapon deals 325 (600) Radiant Damage to Oni Disruptor

  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 906 Arc User
    edited January 14
    > @noworries#8859 said:
    > There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.
    >
    > On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This will enable players to simply buy weapons for AD that outperform both the “endgame” trial sets?

    In retrospect I see that lion/celestial will still be better than mw3.
    Elite Whaleboy
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,118 Arc User
    I knew this was happening when players that have celestial weapons were claiming that instead of just change to lionheart. Now everyone loses
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garic PvE Paladin
    Caturday Survivor
    Elemental Evil Survivor
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    Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 466 Arc User
    *cries in tank*

    Maybe tanks really should get Earthen weapons for the 25% damage reduction now.
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,221 Arc User

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
  • aster#8001 aster Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    Its so hard buff celestial to 10% for example, instead to nerf LH or other items?
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,221 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
    More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
    I'm ok with crafted weapons being on par with the two hardest trials in the game. Crafting needs a purpose, and needs to be worth doing, the only way it will be is if you can make items that others will actually want. Besides, masterwork only has 10% more damage if everyone gets it. There will always be someone with a Lionheart set added into the mix who will get the 7.5% + that of the masterwork bonus.
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    arazith07 said:

    arazith07 said:

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
    More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
    I'm ok with crafted weapons being on par with the two hardest trials in the game. Crafting needs a purpose, and needs to be worth doing, the only way it will be is if you can make items that others will actually want. Besides, masterwork only has 10% more damage if everyone gets it. There will always be someone with a Lionheart set added into the mix who will get the 7.5% + that of the masterwork bonus.
    If this change takes place, the meta will shift to everyone having masterwork. They have 100% uptime 10% damage and 10% DR. Lionheart nerf needs to be undone, and celestials numbers put at 10%.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,221 Arc User

    arazith07 said:

    arazith07 said:

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
    More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
    I'm ok with crafted weapons being on par with the two hardest trials in the game. Crafting needs a purpose, and needs to be worth doing, the only way it will be is if you can make items that others will actually want. Besides, masterwork only has 10% more damage if everyone gets it. There will always be someone with a Lionheart set added into the mix who will get the 7.5% + that of the masterwork bonus.
    If this change takes place, the meta will shift to everyone having masterwork. They have 100% uptime 10% damage and 10% DR. Lionheart nerf needs to be undone, and celestials numbers put at 10%.
    You mean the meta will go back to 1-2 dps having something other than MW, and everyone else having MW. Which has been the Meta for a long portion of the game, at least from M10-15.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited January 14
    arazith07 said:

    arazith07 said:

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
    More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
    I'm ok with crafted weapons being on par with the two hardest trials in the game. Crafting needs a purpose, and needs to be worth doing, the only way it will be is if you can make items that others will actually want. Besides, masterwork only has 10% more damage if everyone gets it. There will always be someone with a Lionheart set added into the mix who will get the 7.5% + that of the masterwork bonus.
    When Zariel was still on preview there was a minor problem raised, that the rewards are not sufficient to maintain the content for any significant shelf life. It was argued, that in that aspect it was a failure even before release.

    The counter argument was that, while unlike ToMM, which I may add, some still run to this day over a year into release, it will not have unbound ring and such, but it will still have the best weapons in the game so it will be worthwhile.

    I will not speak for others, but I haven't stepped, nor plan to into that place after getting one set of weapons, so IMO it's was a waste of resources invested into dead content.
    But to the topic at hand, what's the point of investing heavily into gearing and learning one specific piece of content, time that will not apply to anything else, when you can just go to the AH and buy a set of the same for cheap*?

    *I compare the cost of MW weapons when they were BiS, to the cost of getting the defensive stats to not die in Zariel + the time needed to train for it. MW wins big time in terms of cheaper buyout.
  • sephiz#1200 sephiz Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    Okay, I was making a list but I was sounding extremely salty which I probably am. I just want to mention a lot of these decisions feel dps centric w/o thinking about tank and/or healers.

    Are we nerfing masterwork and the sets from elemental evil like the burning sets? We can't have celestial losing to those either :'( . Imagine having a set like the burning one from module 6 that gives a guaranteed 25% of your AP back when you use a daily :astonished: totally unacceptable ;). It would be unthinkable to see let say an arcanist CW use the burning set to spam their daily :/ .

    On a more positive and serious note can we get 7.5% awareness or mitigation or something for tanks on celestial. At this point tanks deserve a carrot lol.
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,221 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    arazith07 said:

    arazith07 said:

    There has been a lot of talk about Celestial Vs Lionheart weapon sets.

    On the stream I mentioned that for Celestial I removed the lockout timer so that if a player is constantly engaged they can keep the celestial effect up continuously. There were still complaints that Lionheart would still be too powerful compared to Celestial in that regard. So another change that will be going in is that Lionheart will be reduced to 7.5% maximums to bring the two sets better in line.

    This should not have been done. Celestials should have been increased to 10%. With this change, you've now made MW3 set the best weapon set, a set that can be bought with AD........ MW3 set has 10% damage with 100% uptimes, 10% damage resist provided everyone in the party has it. Please stop nerfing stuff. We gave the suggestion to make Celestials 10% and to add some DR as well.
    Honestly, more viable sets is a good thing.

    Another thing though, if people are saying something is outperforming everything, expect a nerf.
    More viable sets lol. So you are okay with a pay to win set being better than two sets obtained from the two hardest trials in the game?
    I'm ok with crafted weapons being on par with the two hardest trials in the game. Crafting needs a purpose, and needs to be worth doing, the only way it will be is if you can make items that others will actually want. Besides, masterwork only has 10% more damage if everyone gets it. There will always be someone with a Lionheart set added into the mix who will get the 7.5% + that of the masterwork bonus.
    When Zariel was still on preview there was a minor problem raised, that the rewards are not sufficient to maintain the content for any significant shelf life. It was argued, that in that aspect it was a failure even before release.

    The counter argument was that, while unlike ToMM, which I may add, some still run to this day over a year into release, it will not have unbound ring and such, but it will still have the best weapons in the game so it will be worthwhile.

    I will not speak for others, but I haven't stepped, nor plan to into that place after getting one set of weapons, so IMO it's was a waste of resources invested into dead content.
    But to the topic at hand, what's the point of investing heavily into gearing and learning one specific piece of content, time that will not apply to anything else, when you can just go to the AH and buy a set of the same for cheap*?

    *I compare the cost of MW weapons when they were BiS, to the cost of getting the defensive stats to not die in Zariel + the time needed to train for it. MW wins big time in terms of cheaper buyout.
    I do understand where you are coming from. But Crafting is content for a lot of people as well. Both the trade of the resources and various stages of the crafting process, as well as finished product work to increase AD sinking out of the economy through sales tax, but also rewards though seeking profit at the various stages. Crafting needs to be desirable in order to even perform the above, otherwise it's just wasted content as well. I felt as though it worked in previous mods because the rewards in dungeons and trials were also just as desirable. ZC should never have released with how the rewards are now, they do need to be better, what that looks like, IDK. But I am not arguing for Crafting to be better, but rather similar to endgame.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,462 Arc User
    edited January 14
    I'm ofc not against making crafting viable, but crafting can be complimentary, not competitive with other content.

    This was also debated extensively in the CDPs (one may say ad nauseam), with various proposals of how to make crafting complimentary, long term viable, easier to maintain, and so on.

    BTW, justas a side note, and somewhat for the devils advocate, one of the stated reasons to limit unbound loot is that unbound high sought items are used for RMT. One can argue that MW is such thing and can be used for RMT as well, so that should be limited too.
    (This is not my personal view, I'm personally for more unbound stuff, regardless of the source, since IMO it's the long term solution to the ZAX and the benefits to the economy are high enough).

    At the end this is moot, it's just interesting how a piece of content invalidated so fast after the investment in doing it. Seems like a waste of resources and time for everyone.
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • jman3l#5579 jman3l Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    > @synyster3006 said:
    > There's also another issue, i think.
    > Celestial rigth now are best in slot because without any stack, they are almost equivalent to the lionheart with the 10% active.
    > Considering that to have this stack, we need to strike 5 encounters and that this lasts for 30 seconds, in trial like tomm or zariel there will be many moments where u'll need to restack from scratch (after each phase, for example).
    >
    > I'd suggest that: * Lionheart bonus damage should remain 10%
    >
    > * when you use an at-will, encounter or daily power you gain a stack of Divine Charge (adding at-wills to the list, can be more healer friendly)
    >
    > * you can have a maximum of 2 Divine Fury stacks active at a time.
    >
    > * each Divine Fury stack should grant 6% of Outgoing Damage, Outgoing Healing, Damage Resistance (for a total of 12% with two stacks active)

    @noworries#8859 this is probably the most thoughtful proposal I've seen for celestial rework. Its simple and effective. Perhaps this suggestion could be considered? It would give players a strong incentive to grind MZC, a trial which the devs worked very hard on, and it would make tanks very happy.
  • darkcinnamondarkcinnamon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9 Arc User

    Okay, I was making a list but I was sounding extremely salty which I probably am. I just want to mention a lot of these decisions feel dps centric w/o thinking about tank and/or healers.

    Are we nerfing masterwork and the sets from elemental evil like the burning sets? We can't have celestial losing to those either :'( . Imagine having a set like the burning one from module 6 that gives a guaranteed 25% of your AP back when you use a daily :astonished: totally unacceptable ;). It would be unthinkable to see let say an arcanist CW use the burning set to spam their daily :/ .

    On a more positive and serious note can we get 7.5% awareness or mitigation or something for tanks on celestial. At this point tanks deserve a carrot lol.

    Burning set has 30 second internal cooldown,its not in the tooltip of course cuz why would it be right?That cooldown literally kills all these ideas that everyone thinks they gonna make some sort of fast ap build and spam dailies with that set which is sad cuz its one of the most unique weapon sets we have in game in compared to 10 smth different weapons sets we have in game that has 10% dmg increase with different conditions.
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