@hadestemplar He was complaining that downward scaling isn't strong enough to make him struggle against a weekly quest boss from MOD HAMSTER EIGHT.
Correction, I was not complaining but presenting an example of an old repeatable (still done to this day), and how all the massive powerful gear we have, now affects us returning to anything for any reason. Sybella sends us out on three old quests every week, one of them is the Maze Engine. I purposely see no need to advance my characters up to god mode or beyond at this time.
So you run only end game content? You burn those bridges behind you and never look back? Then what is RTQ but the rerunning of old content? Do you exit, if Demogorgon shows up in the RTQ? I am not asking for downward scaling, I don't even know if there is a real viable solution for Baphomet and other content of this kind. I just know that there will be a lot more of these complaint rants should Cryptic attempt to repair or replace it. This one old boss drops about 350K of rough AD per year, I wouldn't care if they tweaked it. BTW you talk about hamsters a lot.
@hadestemplar He was complaining that downward scaling isn't strong enough to make him struggle against a weekly quest boss from MOD HAMSTER EIGHT.
Correction, I was not complaining but presenting an example of an old repeatable (still done to this day), and how all the massive powerful gear we have, now affects us returning to anything for any reason. Sybella sends us out on three old quests every week, one of them is the Maze Engine. I purposely see no need to advance my characters up to god mode or beyond at this time.
So you run only end game content? You burn those bridges behind you and never look back? Then what is RTQ but the rerunning of old content? Do you exit, if Demogorgon shows up in the RTQ? I am not asking for downward scaling, I don't even know if there is a real viable solution for Baphomet and other content of this kind. I just know that there will be a lot more of these complaint rants should Cryptic attempt to repair or replace it. This one old boss drops about 350K of rough AD per year, I wouldn't care if they tweaked it. BTW you talk about hamsters a lot.
Who cares if we annihilate old content? Why do you want old content to be hard? There's no loot from it that justifies there being any challenge to doing it. It's literally just busywork for pitiful amounts of RP and laughable amounts of RAD. It's there to create the illusion of an active world.
If you want to make everything as hard as current content, then you better push for everything to drop current rewards FIRST.
@hadestemplar He was complaining that downward scaling isn't strong enough to make him struggle against a weekly quest boss from MOD HAMSTER EIGHT.
Correction, I was not complaining but presenting an example of an old repeatable (still done to this day), and how all the massive powerful gear we have, now affects us returning to anything for any reason. Sybella sends us out on three old quests every week, one of them is the Maze Engine. I purposely see no need to advance my characters up to god mode or beyond at this time.
So you run only end game content? You burn those bridges behind you and never look back? Then what is RTQ but the rerunning of old content? Do you exit, if Demogorgon shows up in the RTQ? I am not asking for downward scaling, I don't even know if there is a real viable solution for Baphomet and other content of this kind. I just know that there will be a lot more of these complaint rants should Cryptic attempt to repair or replace it. This one old boss drops about 350K of rough AD per year, I wouldn't care if they tweaked it. BTW you talk about hamsters a lot.
Who cares if we annihilate old content? Why do you want old content to be hard? There's no loot from it that justifies there being any challenge to doing it. It's literally just busywork for pitiful amounts of RP and laughable amounts of RAD. It's there to create the illusion of an active world.
If you want to make everything as hard as current content, then you better push for everything to drop current rewards FIRST.
The players want old content to be hard enuff that SOME olde-thymers still want to do the content, otherwise the content never pops in queue or those players that have already run it ad nauseum will simply leave (if we're lucky) or beg to be kicked while refusing to leave the campfire (if we're not).
The devs want content to be challenging to MOST so that they have fewer of these threads to read, while looking for actual problems to fix.
@hadestemplar He was complaining that downward scaling isn't strong enough to make him struggle against a weekly quest boss from MOD HAMSTER EIGHT.
Correction, I was not complaining but presenting an example of an old repeatable (still done to this day), and how all the massive powerful gear we have, now affects us returning to anything for any reason. Sybella sends us out on three old quests every week, one of them is the Maze Engine. I purposely see no need to advance my characters up to god mode or beyond at this time.
So you run only end game content? You burn those bridges behind you and never look back? Then what is RTQ but the rerunning of old content? Do you exit, if Demogorgon shows up in the RTQ? I am not asking for downward scaling, I don't even know if there is a real viable solution for Baphomet and other content of this kind. I just know that there will be a lot more of these complaint rants should Cryptic attempt to repair or replace it. This one old boss drops about 350K of rough AD per year, I wouldn't care if they tweaked it. BTW you talk about hamsters a lot.
Who cares if we annihilate old content? Why do you want old content to be hard? There's no loot from it that justifies there being any challenge to doing it. It's literally just busywork for pitiful amounts of RP and laughable amounts of RAD. It's there to create the illusion of an active world.
If you want to make everything as hard as current content, then you better push for everything to drop current rewards FIRST.
The players want old content to be hard enuff that SOME olde-thymers still want to do the content, otherwise the content never pops in queue or those players that have already run it ad nauseum will simply leave (if we're lucky) or beg to be kicked while refusing to leave the campfire (if we're not).
The devs want content to be challenging to MOST so that they have fewer of these threads to read, while looking for actual problems to fix.
"the players"
No, a micro minority on the forums pretend to want everything hard. Actual players in-game tell you what they want with their actions: When a LoMM pops, most of the time 2+ people instantly leave, followed by everyone else when you get to the first boss. When a CR pops, no one leaves the campfire unless it's to fling themselves off a cliff. When a CoDG pops people immediately start inspecting others to see if there's enough ilvl in the group to out-dps mechanics, and if there isn't, people start leaving.
Actual players, the ones that don't live on the forums, or exclusively run with a premade, have no interest in the 'challenge' fetish you pretend to have, because they have to live in reality with the random que population that can't survive a single pull/push in CoDG and couldn't kill a mimic in LoMM if it flat out stood still.
@kierlakx I have these players in the game, in a thing we call a "guild". We all get on real well together seldom argue. Oh yeah, we get together and run content every now and then. It is called social gaming for a reason. We don't have a "micro minority" we have a guild of like minded individuals who play a game together in harmony. Today our guild is putting another notch on the level with the influence we all collected this week working together. Now we may only be a small group of role-players, but we have fun. We do like a good challenge, because there is a winner's rush you get from over coming tough enemies. Even when you’re losing, while you’re playing, your body is still producing adrenaline and endorphins. I don't do Random Queues, I pick my fights, if you see me in LoMM or CoDG it is because I chose to be there. Recently I did a lot of Trial with Demogorgon, found I have a lot of his keys on me, the rough AD in the chests at the end is enough reward for me. Playing with others, who enjoy being there, is even better.
to the person that asked is it worse than before in my experience it really is. I used to get interesting drops regularly. I've ran A LOT more since this dropped just testing it, so to speak and I've got nothing except for the worthless new stuff they've added. the thing that made the random ques fun was the comps and mounts. even if they you didn't get a great one. this isn't about ultra premium payouts that many of us are disgruntled about. this is about basic rewards being nerfed. if I ran daily a dungeon and a trial, over the course of a week, I was pretty much guaranteed at least a couple mounts and comps dropping. all I've seen is numerous, 1 genies gift or 1 scroll of life or 2 tradebars. those are rerolls for me; just not worth it. I thought the point of reworking rewards was to make the scaling worth it. to make it worth it to revisit old dungeons that were going to suck up a half hour of your life. all they've done is succeeding in making them all equally as worthless. it used to be fbi, tong, codg and lomm were at least a decent chance at something good. they aren't anymore.
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
The goal of D&D Neverwinter Online, is to provide entertainment service, which is developed by cryptic Studios, and published by Perfect World INC. Also Neverwinter online is Action Combat MMORPG. RPG stand for Role Play game.
Playing as tank or healer or dps, these are roles.
Now tell me would you complete ToMM without tank? How's about without healers?
Other thing, since when you decide what is normal players and who are not? Remember you are just yet another player. Neither important, neither special.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
Playing as tank or healer or dps, these are roles.
Different meanings. Role playing has a very specific meaning which predates its usage in gaming.
"Role-playing is the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role.: - Wikipedia
Role playing a character is to form an idea of who the character is if there a living person to let that impression of your character guide your decisions and dialog. The primary method of role playing in Neverwinter is through the chat UI with other players as game content doesn't support player preferences and/or choices. There is no option to try and talk to Storvald or Halaster, only to fight them.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
I'm a bit like @sandukutupu : I only play what I choose and like to play with who i want and like to play. It's only a game for me, i don't want to feel forced to do anything I dislike while playing it...
As an exemple : I don't want to be part of the herd of sheeps that, preemptively of doing dungeons/trials themselves, are reading or watching strat/guides/tutorials, especially those that were made during preview times (!!!) before the official release of new content. Before even trying by themselves !!! For me, it sounds like doing any game with the opened walkthrough magazine on my knees. But i am ok with people who do so, it's just my personnal taste and how i enjoy any new content i'm exploring. I prefer allowing myself to be surprised, understanding the mechanics by myself, hardtrying until I or we come with some sort of strategy (even if it's already well known by others, though sometimes I/we come with something a bit different from the "holy meta").
I never enjoyed ToMM. I finished it once (after countless failed runs), and never walked there again (and will not). So i never grabed the weapons, and don't care as it didn't really prevent me from doing anything I wanted. I feel like i won't enjoy Zariel too, though i didn't really practice it yet (quickly finished the normal mode 2 days ago, never really hardtried the master version yet). Trials don't seem to fit my taste in general : I also don't like MSva, Tiamat, eDemo. CoDG is only okish. So I avoid RTQ too. It may have something to do with the sensation of being in the same arena during all the run, trampling on the same spot. I may be the kind of guy who like to see landscapes + progression by movement (for exemple i enjoy ToNG and its picturesque frescoes telling us a story that progress after each big stairs)
I have plenty of fun on countless activities. Looting endchest rewards is really not one of them, no matter what i get... (but maybe it is because overall i don't enjoy gambling/playing with a one-armed bandit).
I don't really care about BiS stuff (it's nice to have, but not mandatory for me to have fun). I don't really care about the "kiki-mètre" as frenchies would say (wiener-meter as somewhat a litteral translation if it's not hamsterized) I don't really care about end dungeon rewards (have uber bling bling things in the endchest won't change anything on the fun I have running a dungeon, if it's BtA/BtC then it's useless, if unbound it will just allow me to do more business and maybe go higher than my usual 40-50k Zen to spend during each Jubilee/Blackfriday...).
What we loot/drop/earn from anything in the game is just a mean, an excuse. The real fun of the game, the end, at least for me, is to spend some good time with friendlies. That was ans still is the goal of D&D. That was the goal of oldschool MMORPGs. But players were then tricked to play MMORPGS like they were casinos... chasing rewards rather than enjoying a journey with friends...
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
Why are you playing D&D in the first place? Why do you pretend to be something you are not? Maybe you are in the wrong game?
If you think this is ANYTHING like D&D then you have never read a player manual. Let me post a statement from an ACTUAL D&D forum.
I’ve been reading and dabbling in the old Basic Rules these past days, and considering the whole design paradigm of the game, I think it makes perfect sense. Clerics can fight in heavy armor not because it’s their specialty, but because there is no reason for them not to wear it. The way armor proficiency works in 3rd edition is the opposite of how it originally was. The older editions worked by a logic that all characters can do everything unless there is a reason why they could not. Wizards don’t wear any armor because it interferes with their spells, and thieves don’t wear heavy armor because it limits the mobility they need for sneaking and climbing. Cleric spells are not restricted by armor and they usually don’t try to be extra stealthy or do any fancy acrobatics. So why shouldn’t they be wearing the best protection they can get?
When later wearing armor became something that needs a special ability to use, clerics got that ability simply because they always had been wearing heavy armor. Even though under the new logic of the game it didn’t really make any sense anymore.
Tell me... why cant clerics use hammers, maces, and such? Only in the movies do they run around holding up symbols like an idiot. Its 100% obvious that no developer has ever read an actual D&D manual. Also, as like ALL MMOs, wizards are king of the DPS classes.....KINGS, not clerics.
Wow! Derailed it again... not on topic. Quick! Captain get us back on course! To address @pitshade yes and different types of RP exist in this game. I personally don't lurk in Moonstone Mask, I RP whenever and wherever I feel the need to do so. Cybering is not RP to me. I don't whisper, I speak up loud and clear in Zone Chat. Some people think emoting (*wipes sweat from forehead*) is RP. I RP speaking up as my character, my friends in the guild also join the fun when they are present.
Please note; Nicholas Magnus the founder of "Nick's Gith Meat Emporium" has traded his business in the Undermountain. It is now owned by Halaster Blackcloak and managed by the Thayan chef Morbius. Nicholas no longer offers free Gith meat steak samples.
@tchefi#6735 Thank you, I couldn't have said that better! @rarraaz I have always stated and agree this game is D&D in name only, but it is still a role-playing game online. It is not like I play Call of Duty and pretend to be Sergeant Bilko or Private Gomer Pyle.... maybe?
Different meanings. Role playing has a very specific meaning which predates its usage in gaming.
"Role-playing is the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role.: - Wikipedia
Role playing a character is to form an idea of who the character is if there a living person to let that impression of your character guide your decisions and dialog. The primary method of role playing in Neverwinter is through the chat UI with other players as game content doesn't support player preferences and/or choices. There is no option to try and talk to Storvald or Halaster, only to fight them.
There are other namings for RPG.. As example lets take my previous played game> Cabal online. There we don't call classes, we call battle style. Thats mean you( player) pick style how you will play game. Or lets take final fantasy xiv , there also no calling like classes, there you pick Job.
Also there are games where you can have hybrid buids. Like tank/mage, buffer/dps, dps/heal. Buff/dps, tank/archer. So your postion/role can different depending on your own prefernce.
Also I wrote what MMORPG stand for.. If you think it's not massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Then I don't know what to say.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game." -----
This is the context that Role Player was used in. It has nothing to do with builds or tank/heals/DPS. The community that kierlakx refers to enjoys the role playing I mentioned earlier.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game."
-----
This is the context that Role Player was used in. It has nothing to do with builds or tank/heals/DPS. The community that kierlakx refers to enjoys the role playing I mentioned earlier.
There where question what name RPG stand for, I gave information about it.
You mentioned what RPG mean, I simply added that in other games, even it's called RPG, we don't call role play so simply. Battle style or Job - the syle how you play game. So there is more than simple Role Play naming.. Also I noted that there games who's allow to have hybrid build, and thus it's become harder to call simpy Role Play. Cuz some class/builds allow you to take multiple roles in same time.
When comes his calim that there is micro minority who play neverwinter as roles. It's totall nonsense.
You can have whole trial group of dps, still one of player who will do most dmg, will build most threat/agroo, and thus boss will attack him instead others. That's my friend, is more less tank's role. Even if you play as heal or dps, you can act as tank. Tanks role is to keep boss attetnion on yourself, willingly or not, and in that moment assuring that other group members don't get hit.
As long threat/agroo system is in game, you can't avoid role play.
So this micro minority claim is just nonsense.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
They are talking about a Role Playing in a way completely different from what you are saying. Neither the person you quoted previously nor the person they were talking to is talking about tanks, healers etc... At this point, you are simply wrestling with a strawman and I'm not going to try and explain any further.
"We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
Role play in this context has nothing to do with taking on roles of game style, it has to do with taking on roles of game personality.
yes you choose a role of combat. dps tank etc. that's not what people are talking about here.
theyre talking about choosing a role of a tavern wench who comes on too all the rogues for coins and maybe they're a spy for the crown and they need to assassinate someone. this has nothing to do with the actual game but a storyline theyve created and are acting out among themselves. maybe you're a big burley guy but you want to play a orc barmaid. maybe you're a young girl but you want to be a big burly guy. in this context you pretend that's what you are and don't break character. that's role playing (Stated as someone who doesn't role play and thinks people who do are somewhat strange, so maybe I've mangled the reality, this is just for trying to clarify what it means in context)
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
Why are you playing D&D in the first place? Why do you pretend to be something you are not? Maybe you are in the wrong game?
If I want to play D&D, I'll check and see if my buddy has a game going that I can join. I play Neverwinter to play an action-MMO that mostly works, because the 'D&D' aspect of NW is so absolutely thin that it may as well not be there.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Cryptic already has a mechanism in place to encourage playing the game for short periods rather than marathon all day grinding. The Gem drops and bag drops of Wanderer's Fortune and Dragon Hoard Enchants only occur in the morning, late afternoon and late evening (same with Treasure/AD drops from mounts) - assuming a 8 hour pause between them.
Why wouldn't they employ a similar mechanism to chest rewards to discourage endless dungeon farming of the hardcore players vs the opportunity for the casual player? At least that is what I would expect. Do a dungeon or two, get your pay, change to an alt or do something in RL. Come back later/tomorrow and repeat. It is a whole lot less stressful, trust me.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Cryptic already has a mechanism in place to encourage playing the game for short periods rather than marathon all day grinding. The Gem drops and bag drops of Wanderer's Fortune and Dragon Hoard Enchants only occur in the morning, late afternoon and late evening (same with Treasure/AD drops from mounts) - assuming a 8 hour pause between them.
Never heard of that arrangement. How does Cryptic decide when everybody's morning, late afternoon and late evening are?
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
I can tell you there are two groups of people in NW people like Sandukutupu and myself, who play to have fun and enjoy the RPG aspects of an RPG game based in an RPG Table top game (and even have some end level toons as well) and those who want to run around and make the whole game a "measuring contest".
The latter is what is ruining NW IMO. If you are not having fun mate, find another hobby. Doing this stuff and whinging and moaning about all the time perhaps means it's time to take a break or find another game that makes you happy.
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
I can tell you there are two groups of people in NW people like Sandukutupu and myself, who play to have fun and enjoy the RPG aspects of an RPG game based in an RPG Table top game (and even have some end level toons as well) and those who want to run around and make the whole game a "measuring contest".
The latter is what is ruining NW IMO. If you are not having fun mate, find another hobby. Doing this stuff and whinging and moaning about all the time perhaps means it's time to take a break or find another game that makes you happy.
considering if you got rid of the 98% who enjoyed playing this game in a way that is not in the role playing aspect of the game you wouldn't have a game at all because it takes people to play or it would fold.. I have to call that statement false.
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
I can tell you there are two groups of people in NW people like Sandukutupu and myself, who play to have fun and enjoy the RPG aspects of an RPG game based in an RPG Table top game (and even have some end level toons as well) and those who want to run around and make the whole game a "measuring contest".
The latter is what is ruining NW IMO. If you are not having fun mate, find another hobby. Doing this stuff and whinging and moaning about all the time perhaps means it's time to take a break or find another game that makes you happy.
considering if you got rid of the 98% who enjoyed playing this game in a way that is not in the role playing aspect of the game you wouldn't have a game at all because it takes people to play or it would fold.. I have to call that statement false.
I didn't say you should get rid of them. Please point out where I said that? I did say if you are NOT enjoying the game, then take a break or find something you enjoy.
someone else wrote: "You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game." Autumn wrote: I can tell you there are two groups of people in NW people like Sandukutupu and myself, who play to have fun and enjoy the RPG aspects of an RPG game based in an RPG Table top game (and even have some end level toons as well) and those who want to run around and make the whole game a "measuring contest".
The latter is what is ruining NW IMO. If you are not having fun mate, find another hobby. Doing this stuff and whinging and moaning about all the time perhaps means it's time to take a break or find another game that makes you happy.
cat wrote: considering if you got rid of the 98% who enjoyed playing this game in a way that is not in the role playing aspect of the game you wouldn't have a game at all because it takes people to play or it would fold.. I have to call that statement false.
Autumn wrote: I didn't say you should get rid of them. Please point out where I said that? I did say if you are NOT enjoying the game, then take a break or find something you enjoy.
see above,
the first part you equate the only people who are having fun in the game are people who play the game like you. The second part you line up another part of the game who clearly aren't having fun because it's not the way you like to play. then you go on to apply the logic that the people who are playing a different way from you are clearly not having fun, especially if they come here to try to have things changed that would make their playing experience better. so they should go away because they are ruining the game, in your ever so humble opinion.
you are basically telling everyone who plays not like you, to go away and play something else and assuming if they are here complaining that they don't like the game or aren't having fun in the game. that is patently untrue a good portion of the time. People can be having fun in the game and still come here to try and get changes that would make their game play experience more rewarding. just because it isn't something that matters to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others enough to come here and ask for HAMSTER to be done.
People can be having fun in the game and still come here to try and get changes that would make their game play experience more rewarding. just because it isn't something that matters to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others enough to come here and ask for HAMSTER to be done.
True. Question is, how would you feel rewarded by the game ?
As the topic is to talk about the "premium reward" in endchest of dungeons, we have to ask ourselves what do you think is a meaningful reward.
Is a meaningful reward is something you can use for yourself (stuff/consumables) ? Is a meaningful reward that is not a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted it once ? Is a meaningful reward that is a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted some/farm to have plenty ?
Is a meaningful reward is something with value for trade or sell ? Is a tradable/sellable meaningful reward would keep the status of meaningful once the market is somehow a bit flooded by farmers offers ?
Is something rare to loot is rewarding and how to define the rarity so you won't get the impression "meh, i never loot this meaningful one" nor the "oh again this HAMSTER, it's been the 10th i got and everyone have one" ?
Is the meaningfulness of rewards should "scale" with the difficulty of the instance ? If so, how to not dig too much the division between hardcore players and more casual players ? (the more important the gap, the more "social" troubles/disorders you get in public ReDQ/RTQ)
People can be having fun in the game and still come here to try and get changes that would make their game play experience more rewarding. just because it isn't something that matters to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others enough to come here and ask for HAMSTER to be done.
True. Question is, how would you feel rewarded by the game ?
As the topic is to talk about the "premium reward" in endchest of dungeons, we have to ask ourselves what do you think is a meaningful reward.
Is a meaningful reward is something you can use for yourself (stuff/consumables) ? Is a meaningful reward that is not a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted it once ? Is a meaningful reward that is a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted some/farm to have plenty ?
Is a meaningful reward is something with value for trade or sell ? Is a tradable/sellable meaningful reward would keep the status of meaningful once the market is somehow a bit flooded by farmers offers ?
Is something rare to loot is rewarding and how to define the rarity so you won't get the impression "meh, i never loot this meaningful one" nor the "oh again this HAMSTER, it's been the 10th i got and everyone have one" ?
Is the meaningfulness of rewards should "scale" with the difficulty of the instance ? If so, how to not dig too much the division between hardcore players and more casual players ? (the more important the gap, the more "social" troubles/disorders you get in public ReDQ/RTQ)
The rewards that are there are fine...it's the rate of acquisition and amount per acquisition that are the problem. At the current drop rate, for it to not feel like an insult, it should be 25 pres wards, 50 trade bars, 100 charge health stones, 10 scrolls of life, etc. At the current drop amount, for it to not feel like an insult, it would legitimately need to have a 100% chance to get at least 2 trade bars. The amounts are so inexcusably low that getting them from literally everything you do is the only thing that could even attempt to make it acceptable.
The mount/companion issue is a case where nothing but an increase in drop chance will work. It's too low. Period. If I had opened the same number of chests I have after the change in the previous system, I would have 10+ companions and 4+ mounts, one of them most likely epic. I have gotten 0, ZERO mounts or companions after the change, other than a Batiri, which isn't connected to premium loot.
imo as far as scaled content went the newer dungeons had fine loot rewards before. it was the older content that takes half an hour or longer with average/low geared players that was lacking in appropriate loot. (I'd have been happiest if they just took away scaling, there should be a progression in dungeon difficulty and there is not anymore really. ) imo what should have happened is that most rp should have been removed from the dungeon rewards (if you need rp and are relying on dungeon drops from end chest you're doing it wrong) and in that pool the new consumables should have been added. for the rewards pool they should have added the legs as a super rare drop and kept the uncommon rare and epic mount and companion chance as it was.
making them the ultra rare drops they are now (comps and mounts) is going to make them extremely expensive when most were in a good and healthy place before for ad compensation on the ah. comps and mounts are needed for newer players both for equip and resale to better their toons. for older players they are just a lot more fun than getting consumables that are low in number and bound. getting 1 pres ward doesn't feel like much of a reward compared to even, for instance as the most tossworthy green mount like a amphail horse.
they failed imo to make the perception of better loot in end chest. your average player will never see the leg mount in the end chest so it's kind of irrelevant. in the old system, at least for the more modern dungeons fbi, codg, tong, lomm your odds of getting something good and relevant from the chest were high. now it's very low. even the consumables were better. 3 legendary keys. 3 pres wards. those were things I wouldn't reroll when they dropped.
now the best you can hope for from a chest it seems like is some straight up ad. and that's like yay........ (yawn) and I still reroll on it hoping for something better. usually ending up with something less than if I'd taken it. but i'm here hoping to see if it's even possible to get a mount of comp now. it seems not. if you look at the collection of people saying what they've gotten the mount and comp options that used to drop seem even rarer than the ultra rare leg drops.
the FEELING of the end game chest is regression not better right now.
I've been running hours of dungeons skirmishes and trials since this dropped to get a balanced feel for the end game chest and my take away is that it's nerfed in value significantly from before. even the end game non scaled dungeons aren't dropping anything meaningful anymore.
imo it needs a tweak.
tldr take out RP for the most part. leave rubies and better where they were in odds chance. put in the current consumable table to replace that and leave the rare drop possibility of uncommon rare and epic mounts with the drop chance of what it was before hand. (and the other rewards that were in that table prior like keys and pres wards and coals and the like. ) and you'd end up with the balance that would feel like you have an actual chance of being rewarded.
Post edited by thefiresidecat on
1
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
@tchefi#6735 A meaningful reward si something that makes you progress your character / account according to the time invested.
This is why scaling can be a problem because it makes lower level dungeons to last longer. If you put the same rewards in all the dungeons and difficulties you are disincentiving doing hard content. If you put bad rewards in low level content, you are disincentiving low geared players because they dont progress and they cant run harder content.
So we need an equilibrium. Is ok to have 3 tarmalunes or 1 preservation ward as premium reward in leveling dungeons, but is not ok to have that ammount in IC or ToMM or Zariel. Also is not ok to have the legendary mount in lower level dungeons.
I think the system needs tweaks, and also needs something to do with that account mount / companions. I suggest that you can "salvage" them to mount tokens / companion tokens or insignia powder (the new bottleneck currency)
Comments
So you run only end game content? You burn those bridges behind you and never look back? Then what is RTQ but the rerunning of old content? Do you exit, if Demogorgon shows up in the RTQ? I am not asking for downward scaling, I don't even know if there is a real viable solution for Baphomet and other content of this kind. I just know that there will be a lot more of these complaint rants should Cryptic attempt to repair or replace it. This one old boss drops about 350K of rough AD per year, I wouldn't care if they tweaked it. BTW you talk about hamsters a lot.
If you want to make everything as hard as current content, then you better push for everything to drop current rewards FIRST.
The devs want content to be challenging to MOST so that they have fewer of these threads to read, while looking for actual problems to fix.
No, a micro minority on the forums pretend to want everything hard. Actual players in-game tell you what they want with their actions: When a LoMM pops, most of the time 2+ people instantly leave, followed by everyone else when you get to the first boss. When a CR pops, no one leaves the campfire unless it's to fling themselves off a cliff. When a CoDG pops people immediately start inspecting others to see if there's enough ilvl in the group to out-dps mechanics, and if there isn't, people start leaving.
Actual players, the ones that don't live on the forums, or exclusively run with a premade, have no interest in the 'challenge' fetish you pretend to have, because they have to live in reality with the random que population that can't survive a single pull/push in CoDG and couldn't kill a mimic in LoMM if it flat out stood still.
Please try to Have fun!
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game.
Also Neverwinter online is Action Combat MMORPG.
RPG stand for Role Play game.
Playing as tank or healer or dps, these are roles.
Now tell me would you complete ToMM without tank? How's about without healers?
Other thing, since when you decide what is normal players and who are not?
Remember you are just yet another player. Neither important, neither special.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
"Role-playing is the changing of one's behaviour to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role.: - Wikipedia
Role playing a character is to form an idea of who the character is if there a living person to let that impression of your character guide your decisions and dialog. The primary method of role playing in Neverwinter is through the chat UI with other players as game content doesn't support player preferences and/or choices. There is no option to try and talk to Storvald or Halaster, only to fight them.
It's only a game for me, i don't want to feel forced to do anything I dislike while playing it...
As an exemple : I don't want to be part of the herd of sheeps that, preemptively of doing dungeons/trials themselves, are reading or watching strat/guides/tutorials, especially those that were made during preview times (!!!) before the official release of new content. Before even trying by themselves !!!
For me, it sounds like doing any game with the opened walkthrough magazine on my knees. But i am ok with people who do so, it's just my personnal taste and how i enjoy any new content i'm exploring. I prefer allowing myself to be surprised, understanding the mechanics by myself, hardtrying until I or we come with some sort of strategy (even if it's already well known by others, though sometimes I/we come with something a bit different from the "holy meta").
I never enjoyed ToMM. I finished it once (after countless failed runs), and never walked there again (and will not). So i never grabed the weapons, and don't care as it didn't really prevent me from doing anything I wanted.
I feel like i won't enjoy Zariel too, though i didn't really practice it yet (quickly finished the normal mode 2 days ago, never really hardtried the master version yet).
Trials don't seem to fit my taste in general : I also don't like MSva, Tiamat, eDemo. CoDG is only okish. So I avoid RTQ too. It may have something to do with the sensation of being in the same arena during all the run, trampling on the same spot. I may be the kind of guy who like to see landscapes + progression by movement (for exemple i enjoy ToNG and its picturesque frescoes telling us a story that progress after each big stairs)
I have plenty of fun on countless activities. Looting endchest rewards is really not one of them, no matter what i get... (but maybe it is because overall i don't enjoy gambling/playing with a one-armed bandit).
I don't really care about BiS stuff (it's nice to have, but not mandatory for me to have fun).
I don't really care about the "kiki-mètre" as frenchies would say (wiener-meter as somewhat a litteral translation if it's not hamsterized)
I don't really care about end dungeon rewards (have uber bling bling things in the endchest won't change anything on the fun I have running a dungeon, if it's BtA/BtC then it's useless, if unbound it will just allow me to do more business and maybe go higher than my usual 40-50k Zen to spend during each Jubilee/Blackfriday...).
What we loot/drop/earn from anything in the game is just a mean, an excuse.
The real fun of the game, the end, at least for me, is to spend some good time with friendlies. That was ans still is the goal of D&D. That was the goal of oldschool MMORPGs.
But players were then tricked to play MMORPGS like they were casinos... chasing rewards rather than enjoying a journey with friends...
So sad...
I’ve been reading and dabbling in the old Basic Rules these past days, and considering the whole design paradigm of the game, I think it makes perfect sense. Clerics can fight in heavy armor not because it’s their specialty, but because there is no reason for them not to wear it. The way armor proficiency works in 3rd edition is the opposite of how it originally was. The older editions worked by a logic that all characters can do everything unless there is a reason why they could not. Wizards don’t wear any armor because it interferes with their spells, and thieves don’t wear heavy armor because it limits the mobility they need for sneaking and climbing. Cleric spells are not restricted by armor and they usually don’t try to be extra stealthy or do any fancy acrobatics. So why shouldn’t they be wearing the best protection they can get?
When later wearing armor became something that needs a special ability to use, clerics got that ability simply because they always had been wearing heavy armor. Even though under the new logic of the game it didn’t really make any sense anymore.
Tell me... why cant clerics use hammers, maces, and such? Only in the movies do they run around holding up symbols like an idiot. Its 100% obvious that no developer has ever read an actual D&D manual. Also, as like ALL MMOs, wizards are king of the DPS classes.....KINGS, not clerics.
Please note; Nicholas Magnus the founder of "Nick's Gith Meat Emporium" has traded his business in the Undermountain. It is now owned by Halaster Blackcloak and managed by the Thayan chef Morbius. Nicholas no longer offers free Gith meat steak samples.
@tchefi#6735 Thank you, I couldn't have said that better!
@rarraaz I have always stated and agree this game is D&D in name only, but it is still a role-playing game online. It is not like I play Call of Duty and pretend to be Sergeant Bilko or Private Gomer Pyle.... maybe?
Have fun!
As example lets take my previous played game> Cabal online.
There we don't call classes, we call battle style. Thats mean you( player) pick style how you will play game.
Or lets take final fantasy xiv , there also no calling like classes, there you pick Job.
Also there are games where you can have hybrid buids.
Like tank/mage, buffer/dps, dps/heal. Buff/dps, tank/archer. So your postion/role can different depending on your own prefernce.
Also I wrote what MMORPG stand for.. If you think it's not massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Then I don't know what to say.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
"Role player"
You are part of a sub-micro minority. Your goals are so far removed from normal players that you may as well be playing a different game."
-----
This is the context that Role Player was used in. It has nothing to do with builds or tank/heals/DPS. The community that kierlakx refers to enjoys the role playing I mentioned earlier.
You mentioned what RPG mean, I simply added that in other games, even it's called RPG, we don't call role play so simply.
Battle style or Job - the syle how you play game.
So there is more than simple Role Play naming..
Also I noted that there games who's allow to have hybrid build, and thus it's become harder to call simpy Role Play. Cuz some class/builds allow you to take multiple roles in same time.
When comes his calim that there is micro minority who play neverwinter as roles. It's totall nonsense.
You can have whole trial group of dps, still one of player who will do most dmg, will build most threat/agroo, and thus boss will attack him instead others. That's my friend, is more less tank's role. Even if you play as heal or dps, you can act as tank.
Tanks role is to keep boss attetnion on yourself, willingly or not, and in that moment assuring that other group members don't get hit.
As long threat/agroo system is in game, you can't avoid role play.
So this micro minority claim is just nonsense.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
yes you choose a role of combat. dps tank etc. that's not what people are talking about here.
theyre talking about choosing a role of a tavern wench who comes on too all the rogues for coins and maybe they're a spy for the crown and they need to assassinate someone. this has nothing to do with the actual game but a storyline theyve created and are acting out among themselves. maybe you're a big burley guy but you want to play a orc barmaid. maybe you're a young girl but you want to be a big burly guy. in this context you pretend that's what you are and don't break character. that's role playing (Stated as someone who doesn't role play and thinks people who do are somewhat strange, so maybe I've mangled the reality, this is just for trying to clarify what it means in context)
Why wouldn't they employ a similar mechanism to chest rewards to discourage endless dungeon farming of the hardcore players vs the opportunity for the casual player? At least that is what I would expect. Do a dungeon or two, get your pay, change to an alt or do something in RL. Come back later/tomorrow and repeat. It is a whole lot less stressful, trust me.
The latter is what is ruining NW IMO. If you are not having fun mate, find another hobby. Doing this stuff and whinging and moaning about all the time perhaps means it's time to take a break or find another game that makes you happy.
considering if you got rid of the 98% who enjoyed playing this game in a way that is not in the role playing aspect of the game you wouldn't have a game at all because it takes people to play or it would fold.. I have to call that statement false.
see above,
the first part you equate the only people who are having fun in the game are people who play the game like you. The second part you line up another part of the game who clearly aren't having fun because it's not the way you like to play. then you go on to apply the logic that the people who are playing a different way from you are clearly not having fun, especially if they come here to try to have things changed that would make their playing experience better. so they should go away because they are ruining the game, in your ever so humble opinion.
you are basically telling everyone who plays not like you, to go away and play something else and assuming if they are here complaining that they don't like the game or aren't having fun in the game. that is patently untrue a good portion of the time. People can be having fun in the game and still come here to try and get changes that would make their game play experience more rewarding. just because it isn't something that matters to you doesn't mean it doesn't matter to others enough to come here and ask for HAMSTER to be done.
Question is, how would you feel rewarded by the game ?
As the topic is to talk about the "premium reward" in endchest of dungeons, we have to ask ourselves what do you think is a meaningful reward.
Is a meaningful reward is something you can use for yourself (stuff/consumables) ?
Is a meaningful reward that is not a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted it once ?
Is a meaningful reward that is a consumable would keep the status of meaningful once you have looted some/farm to have plenty ?
Is a meaningful reward is something with value for trade or sell ?
Is a tradable/sellable meaningful reward would keep the status of meaningful once the market is somehow a bit flooded by farmers offers ?
Is something rare to loot is rewarding and how to define the rarity so you won't get the impression "meh, i never loot this meaningful one" nor the "oh again this HAMSTER, it's been the 10th i got and everyone have one" ?
Is the meaningfulness of rewards should "scale" with the difficulty of the instance ? If so, how to not dig too much the division between hardcore players and more casual players ? (the more important the gap, the more "social" troubles/disorders you get in public ReDQ/RTQ)
The mount/companion issue is a case where nothing but an increase in drop chance will work. It's too low. Period. If I had opened the same number of chests I have after the change in the previous system, I would have 10+ companions and 4+ mounts, one of them most likely epic. I have gotten 0, ZERO mounts or companions after the change, other than a Batiri, which isn't connected to premium loot.
making them the ultra rare drops they are now (comps and mounts) is going to make them extremely expensive when most were in a good and healthy place before for ad compensation on the ah. comps and mounts are needed for newer players both for equip and resale to better their toons. for older players they are just a lot more fun than getting consumables that are low in number and bound. getting 1 pres ward doesn't feel like much of a reward compared to even, for instance as the most tossworthy green mount like a amphail horse.
they failed imo to make the perception of better loot in end chest. your average player will never see the leg mount in the end chest so it's kind of irrelevant. in the old system, at least for the more modern dungeons fbi, codg, tong, lomm your odds of getting something good and relevant from the chest were high. now it's very low. even the consumables were better. 3 legendary keys. 3 pres wards. those were things I wouldn't reroll when they dropped.
now the best you can hope for from a chest it seems like is some straight up ad. and that's like yay........ (yawn) and I still reroll on it hoping for something better. usually ending up with something less than if I'd taken it. but i'm here hoping to see if it's even possible to get a mount of comp now. it seems not. if you look at the collection of people saying what they've gotten the mount and comp options that used to drop seem even rarer than the ultra rare leg drops.
the FEELING of the end game chest is regression not better right now.
I've been running hours of dungeons skirmishes and trials since this dropped to get a balanced feel for the end game chest and my take away is that it's nerfed in value significantly from before. even the end game non scaled dungeons aren't dropping anything meaningful anymore.
imo it needs a tweak.
tldr take out RP for the most part. leave rubies and better where they were in odds chance. put in the current consumable table to replace that and leave the rare drop possibility of uncommon rare and epic mounts with the drop chance of what it was before hand. (and the other rewards that were in that table prior like keys and pres wards and coals and the like. ) and you'd end up with the balance that would feel like you have an actual chance of being rewarded.
A meaningful reward si something that makes you progress your character / account according to the time invested.
This is why scaling can be a problem because it makes lower level dungeons to last longer.
If you put the same rewards in all the dungeons and difficulties you are disincentiving doing hard content.
If you put bad rewards in low level content, you are disincentiving low geared players because they dont progress and they cant run harder content.
So we need an equilibrium. Is ok to have 3 tarmalunes or 1 preservation ward as premium reward in leveling dungeons, but is not ok to have that ammount in IC or ToMM or Zariel. Also is not ok to have the legendary mount in lower level dungeons.
I think the system needs tweaks, and also needs something to do with that account mount / companions. I suggest that you can "salvage" them to mount tokens / companion tokens or insignia powder (the new bottleneck currency)
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