I can see the general "nerf" point being made here but take a second to look at where the average player will start:
Average player has a character with a legendary and and handful of other mounts at random grades. They will quickly be able to upgrade this set to:
1 Mythic mount + 9 Purple mounts. (total bolster for this set is: 32.5%)
This puts them about where they are now in stats. Over time they can add Account-Legendary to their stable, or simply upgrade the ones they have. This will bring them over where they were. Its not overnight unless we pay big money, but the final upgrades will bring a difference of plus 5% in damage at most for example. We don't know how expensive or cheap the upgrade process will be at this point. ACCT bound mounts will also be awarded from events.
What fantasy world are you living in that the average player has a legendary mount? Average players don't even have all three bondings at rank 15.
average end gamers do. I basically don't know anyone in the end game guilds I'm in that don't have one.
We weren't talking about end game players, now were we?
No. The real goal will still be to buy specific leg mounts, because all of the non-leg mount powers will be terrible.
Devs have stated quite the opposite. You will be able to get a majority of the current legendary powers much cheaper now. Blue/purple mounts will get their big brother's powers, with the exception of the master of the hunt & steal tabs because there is no legendary equivelent. Calvalry TRex will now get Commander/Warpainted TRex powers at a fraction of the cost, Carpet of Flying will get Legendary Carpet of Flying powers. Just about every Legendary has a purple equivalent that would get it's powers at a fraction of the cost with the exception of 1 legendary mounts.
Either way, it still isn't much of an argument to argue "I didn't have that, but I was planning to buy it, it's still for sale, and it's even cheaper now"
The best argument anyone can make against this change will be one of two: 1) Swarm won't stack and that really penalizes end-gamers 2) that purple mounts will spike in price causing non-account wide legendary mounts to plummet.
Actually acquiring through the means of going to purple -> legendary will be cheaper, there will be a mega stat bonus for new players (at both purple and orange), and getting mount powers up to current will still cost less than current market prices.
All in all, this change is akin to moving from on/off switch to a dimmer. From a one giant leap to the top... to plenty of less noticeable - but stacking investments. ...now it will make sense to have more than 5 mounts in the stable - and it would make some sense to push a lot of mounts to the best quality possible. (skipping collectors/visual fanatics - as that used to be the sole reason for filling up your stables)
If you are not a collector, but went straight for the top piece in the category, you will no longer have the best. But I think we are supposed to get one more accessory slot, no? So there still might be something to offset the stats you lost by not having the top bolster...
@kierlakx "No. The real goal will still be to buy specific leg mounts, because all of the non-leg mount powers will be terrible."
we dont' know this. we dont' know if the epic versions will upgrade to the leg versions of powers. we do know the ones that don't have powers will have generic powers. but it still stands to reason that if it does work that way where you have to buy a leg mount for a specific combat power. people will just buy the one they plan on using. not 10 that they don't plan on using when upgrading from epic IS much cheaper. overall stat mounts are the reason to have more than 1 leg before this change. it won't change. it will still kill the market for leg mounts except for account bound.
Yeah, I'm curious to see what the new generic AoE mount power will do ... dunno if I'll replace Swarm combat power for it. Guess I'll figure that out tomorrow. And seems the best reason to upgrade mounts is to increase the quality of the collar they can wear and bolster ... so ++ to that. AND "fingers crossed no" there may be something they never mentioned ... such as having to have either a) increase stable to 10 mounts for more insignia bonuses, but all 10 in stable determine bolster or b) classifying mounts by types like companions, where you get a bolster boost based on whether you are using 5 of same type in stable (Ex. Dinos, Horses, Animals, Magical, etc). A would find players doubling or tripling up on insignia bonuses for lower returns and B would have players working to upgrade a mount set, prolly with insignia bonuses they don't need for build. "Lucy, you got some claiming to do!" "I'm sorry Ricky, didn't know those old purchases would catch up to me!"
Elsill Killya - Neverguild That deaf AoE rogue hyperbuild. I never hear them coming, and never hear them dying.
Devs. Did you seriously lower mount stats by 50% then expect your player base to jump through paywalls to get their OLD STATS back?? What have you guys been drinking. Literally what are you guys doing? Imagine people who have just gotten their first leg mount, spent 7Mil on ONE for 10K power, they’ll login to 5K. Only to be told they need 9more AND even then they need to make some mythic yo reach the same stat they originally made. I have 8 account leg, I have several geared toons, do you expect me to PAY for each toon to barely get over the stat I already originally had?? Guys what the actual.. If you were trying to kill your game, well done. This is def a way to make players quit. I’ve spent over 20k€ in this game but now I’ll not spend another dime. Listen to your customers before u lose more of them with this.
And i'll give an example. My 10k p mount before this, is now 7300p with 2700 combined rating (this with 8 legendary & 2 epic mounts). My war triceratops is now 29.xxxk hp instead of the 50k, with 8x legend 2x epic. This is a huge drop. Understand also, that we're talking about ONE CHARACTER. What if you up a few mounts then lose interest in your character? You're screwed. Newer members in my guild have gotten 5k power mounts, they'll be lowered to 2.5k (i assume) and to get back to the 5k they need to spend real life money and or buy mounts in AH, with the 100k daily AD they can refine + change from dungeons. It's not reasonable at all. No matter how you look at it, they halved the stats then literally look us in the eye as they ask for money to get our stats back. Had they wanted to fix this properly, they couldve let the mounts stats be the way they are with a bolster ontop, and later on to give us whatever stats for future mods, they could increase it. Instead they're greedy trolls who literally screw over the majority of their customers for a cashgrab (mind u, they've had several cashgrabs last months). Why don't u speak to your community and ASK them. You literally have platforms to speak to players and understand. Yet you spit in your customers face expecting they'll be ok with it and continue playing.. what..
Imagine people who have just gotten their first leg mount, spent 7Mil on ONE for 10K power, they’ll login to 5K. Only to be told they need 9more AND even then they need to make some mythic yo reach the same stat they originally made.
They actually need 10 MYTHIC mounts to get all the power back. 10 legendary mounts only gets you 50% of it back (7500 power).
You could've literally put in the mounts with same stats as today, 5k epic 10k legend and have mythic at 15k. With boldster going up to whatever you want, 50 100 200%. Just leave bolster to combined rating instead of literally f-ing your customers over thinking you're being smart removing what customers have paid for and using, making them jump through pay walls to get BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE. ON ONE CHARACTER. You're taking away the hard earned stats people have gained, only to go - now we take 50% of your mount stats, and u can get it back by paying hundreds of pounds dollars whatever your currency is. per character. I have 8 toons at 80 that i actually actively play. You know the maths, fix this or enjoy losing even more players cause of stupid 'buffs'. Shame on you.
Newer members in my guild have gotten 5k power mounts, they'll be lowered to 2.5k (i assume) and to get back to the 5k they need to spend real life money and or buy mounts in AH, with the 100k daily AD they can refine + change from dungeons. It's not reasonable at all.
Oh, below-average alert, but from my toons: My SW has 18.5% bolster with 3555 powpow from what was 5k.. None of my chars has more than 3.8 (or so, think my main has around that) k power left, I have epic mounts and rare ones that have 3 insig slots.. and a shitton of skins that are green and whatnot. Until now it was fine - I had saved up for the next round of the leg mount pack for a while. Now I am a bit moody tbh, but thats just me, from my not-even-average POV.
@jules: Cheer up, I am sure you are now able to use 5 magnitude heal every 60 second - just like me. That should offset your losses. (ok, now... if collars are going to drop in a reasonable rate, I do not think characters are actually going to lose any damage... but the collars will be a must to get back what we lost)
On a serious note, unlike companions, the mount evolution process is strictly Zen business, which is worrying.
Imagine people who have just gotten their first leg mount, spent 7Mil on ONE for 10K power, they’ll login to 5K. Only to be told they need 9more AND even then they need to make some mythic yo reach the same stat they originally made.
They actually need 10 MYTHIC mounts to get all the power back. 10 legendary mounts only gets you 50% of it back (7500 power).
I think you are wrong here. I can't explain why because I don't understand the system behind it, however I have 53% bolster and upgraded my legendary Black Ice Warhorse to mythic and it gives me 11.475 power now. Same with the War Triceratops (which had its passive bonus adjusted from 50.000 to 40.000 HP as it seems, which makes sense to match with the 4 HP : 1 stat point formula) which adds now 45.900 HP, also upgraded to mythic.
Imagine people who have just gotten their first leg mount, spent 7Mil on ONE for 10K power, they’ll login to 5K. Only to be told they need 9more AND even then they need to make some mythic yo reach the same stat they originally made.
They actually need 10 MYTHIC mounts to get all the power back. 10 legendary mounts only gets you 50% of it back (7500 power).
I think you are wrong here. I can't explain why because I don't understand the system behind it, however I have 53% bolster and upgraded my legendary Black Ice Warhorse to mythic and it gives me 11.475 power now. Same with the War Triceratops (which had its passive bonus adjusted from 50.000 to 40.000 HP as it seems, which makes sense to match with the 4 HP : 1 stat point formula) which adds now 45.900 HP, also upgraded to mythic.
Because you made them mythic. For a legendary to get back it's 10k, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster. For the mythic to get it's full 15k value, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Because you made them mythic. For a legendary to get back it's 10k, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster. For the mythic to get it's full 15k value, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster.
So you will upgrade 10 mounts to mythic and then let your 10k power mount in legendary? thats smart
Because you made them mythic. For a legendary to get back it's 10k, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster. For the mythic to get it's full 15k value, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster.
So you will upgrade 10 mounts to mythic and then let your 10k power mount in legendary? thats smart
It's an explanation of the math, not a plan of action, you windowlicker.
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darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Because you made them mythic. For a legendary to get back it's 10k, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster. For the mythic to get it's full 15k value, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster.
So you will upgrade 10 mounts to mythic and then let your 10k power mount in legendary? thats smart
It's an explanation of the math, not a plan of action, you windowlicker.
If is an explanation of what NOT TO DO then is fine.
Also, you should include the free epic collar they give to you, for example 3% crit severity, thats worth more in damage than the power lost. But hey, If I dont equip the free collar, we lost power!!! unnaceptable!!
Well, i'd suggest to change the bolster of the legendary mounts to 7.5% and the epic ones to 5% with the next patch... mythic mounts would still be the king with their 10% bolster, but the gab between mount rarities wouldn't be that large anymore.
And i'd really love to hear some official reason, why this collection of broken HAMSTER was pushed onto the live server without testing it properly on the bloody damn TEST SERVER!
Btw. will the "free pack" be brought back online with the next patch?
<blockquote class="Quote" rel="darthpotater"> Also, you should include the free epic collar they give to you, for example 3% crit severity, thats worth more in damage than the power lost. But hey, If I dont equip the free collar, we lost power!!! unnaceptable!!</blockquote> Thats true. So I will get this collar on all my toons? Now, and for all 5k power mounts I stored for my (future) toons?
@jules, the collars are not character bound, they are account bound, so yes you can move that collar to all of your future toons. You have lost 0% damage if you test the numbers & actually got a major stat improvement with combined rating.
The only ones that got hosed were the war triceratop buyers, but many of us have already moved on and passed the old 50k hp point anyway.
Did I read correctly that collars don't stack? If so, which mount contains the active collar? Does the 3% increased encounter damage have stacking problems with the 3% equipment effect on rings?
Collars stack, but need 1 of each category; 1 sturdy, 1 practical, 1 supportive ect.
Btw, Love that my leg griffon now does 6.8% damage reduction instead of 15% (has to be myth with 100% bolster for 15%...), but swarm got buffed to make up some of the difference for not stacking...Griffon should be buffed to 20% at max bolster, mythic for a second huge nerf on the average tank who picks it up as we have to be on support mounts.
I'm DPS and run a support mount (swarm). The only person that tells you what to run is you. Or maybe the reason i can't get into an IC run (even though I'd be top DPS in many groups) is because I have no experience and run Swarm combat power? Seriously... Ive spent a few hours on different days LFG to join IC. No luck yet. I think it's the 'no experience' thing. I don't like to false advertise so i do this: +IC (dps) no experience
Because you made them mythic. For a legendary to get back it's 10k, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster. For the mythic to get it's full 15k value, you need 10 mythics worth of bolster.
So you will upgrade 10 mounts to mythic and then let your 10k power mount in legendary? thats smart
It's an explanation of the math, not a plan of action, you windowlicker.
If is an explanation of what NOT TO DO then is fine.
Also, you should include the free epic collar they give to you, for example 3% crit severity, thats worth more in damage than the power lost. But hey, If I dont equip the free collar, we lost power!!! unnaceptable!!
3% crit sev is a 1.5% damage increase, given that crit chance will never be more than 50%. The lost damage on the 5k power mounts is 1%, assuming you were over 100k power. Is 0.5% damage gain really a fair trade for having half of all your mount's value stripped away?
@jules, the collars are not character bound, they are account bound, so yes you can move that collar to all of your future toons. You have lost 0% damage if you test the numbers & actually got a major stat improvement with combined rating.
The only ones that got hosed were the war triceratop buyers, but many of us have already moved on and passed the old 50k hp point anyway.
No one that was struggling to hit caps gained anything from this. They don't have the bolster bonus to the CRs to give them any number worth noticing. Hell, I was already at caps, and the added CR only gave me enough extra stats to swap a single companion ability.
The system is far, FAR, too backloaded in terms of benefit. The bulk of the CR should have been at the front, as in, common quality mounts having ~3500-4000 CR, and then it scaling up to the mythic quality mounts having their ~5500 CR. That way, the people that actually need help hitting caps actually get that help, instead of the already stat rich getting even more stats that they may not even be able to do anything with. Well, they would still get them, but at least everyone gets the bulk of them, and far more people would actually benefit in a real way.
@jules, the collars are not character bound, they are account bound, so yes you can move that collar to all of your future toons. You have lost 0% damage if you test the numbers & actually got a major stat improvement with combined rating.
The only ones that got hosed were the war triceratop buyers, but many of us have already moved on and passed the old 50k hp point anyway.
No one that was struggling to hit caps gained anything from this. They don't have the bolster bonus to the CRs to give them any number worth noticing. Hell, I was already at caps, and the added CR only gave me enough extra stats to swap a single companion ability.
The system is far, FAR, too backloaded in terms of benefit. The bulk of the CR should have been at the front, as in, common quality mounts having ~3500-4000 CR, and then it scaling up to the mythic quality mounts having their ~5500 CR. That way, the people that actually need help hitting caps actually get that help, instead of the already stat rich getting even more stats that they may not even be able to do anything with. Well, they would still get them, but at least everyone gets the bulk of them, and far more people would actually benefit in a real way.
You are arguing that players were not helped hitting caps, and you yourself stated... "Hell, I was already at caps". The mount update increase everyone's general stats.. so some players were helped. Some of us might not be helped until new content comes out with higher stat enemies. I know i'm hitting close to 100,000 AP, Crit, and Accuracy now from this update, which is a waste. I could reduce them and bring up awareness/crit resist/deflect, but I think i'll need 100,000 in a few months so I wont do a re-balance now.
With reasonable investment, everyone will be back to where they were or beyond with the new mount update. If your talking about PvP exclusively.. they yes, it favors those that are Zen/AD healthy right now. For PvE... it helps everyone now, and makes the future of the game more interesting.
My personal concern is with the cost of upgrading alts. Lets examine the cost of bringing alts to end-game state:
* Ideally, you would start with one full set of max enchantments and runestones, 10 Legendary - Account mounts, 5 Mount Collars, and 15 Legendary Insignias. This base cost went up by a lot.
Now, the cost for each alt:
* 6 Legendary companions (12 million AD) * 10 Mythic upgrades to mounts (10 million AD) * Full set of Campaign buyouts (13 million AD)
The cost of bringing your main to max (using 10x ACCT bound mounts) has increasedj. The cost of bringing each alt to max has increased. Each of those alts would ideally run through all of Undermountain and Avernus as well (a lot of time for 7 alt characters).
I am torn between the desire for players to play the game to earn max status... which I agree with, and the high cost of bringing alts up to equal status as a main. It's a dilemma. For those of us who really earned their main...
... is it worth spending over two hundred million AD to develop a set of equivalent playable characters from each class, when we can still only play one character at a time?
Comments
Either way, it still isn't much of an argument to argue "I didn't have that, but I was planning to buy it, it's still for sale, and it's even cheaper now"
The best argument anyone can make against this change will be one of two: 1) Swarm won't stack and that really penalizes end-gamers 2) that purple mounts will spike in price causing non-account wide legendary mounts to plummet.
Actually acquiring through the means of going to purple -> legendary will be cheaper, there will be a mega stat bonus for new players (at both purple and orange), and getting mount powers up to current will still cost less than current market prices.
...now it will make sense to have more than 5 mounts in the stable - and it would make some sense to push a lot of mounts to the best quality possible. (skipping collectors/visual fanatics - as that used to be the sole reason for filling up your stables)
If you are not a collector, but went straight for the top piece in the category, you will no longer have the best. But I think we are supposed to get one more accessory slot, no? So there still might be something to offset the stats you lost by not having the top bolster...
we dont' know this. we dont' know if the epic versions will upgrade to the leg versions of powers. we do know the ones that don't have powers will have generic powers. but it still stands to reason that if it does work that way where you have to buy a leg mount for a specific combat power. people will just buy the one they plan on using. not 10 that they don't plan on using when upgrading from epic IS much cheaper. overall stat mounts are the reason to have more than 1 leg before this change. it won't change. it will still kill the market for leg mounts except for account bound.
And seems the best reason to upgrade mounts is to increase the quality of the collar they can wear and bolster ... so ++ to that.
AND "fingers crossed no" there may be something they never mentioned ... such as having to have either a) increase stable to 10 mounts for more insignia bonuses, but all 10 in stable determine bolster or b) classifying mounts by types like companions, where you get a bolster boost based on whether you are using 5 of same type in stable (Ex. Dinos, Horses, Animals, Magical, etc). A would find players doubling or tripling up on insignia bonuses for lower returns and B would have players working to upgrade a mount set, prolly with insignia bonuses they don't need for build.
"Lucy, you got some claiming to do!" "I'm sorry Ricky, didn't know those old purchases would catch up to me!"
Elsill Killya - Neverguild
That deaf AoE rogue hyperbuild. I never hear them coming, and never hear them dying.
Northside just posted a teaser video about it up on youtube if you want to check it out.
ALso... I am so friggin excited to start that sweaty dungeon farm. These might be the glory days
Did you seriously lower mount stats by 50% then expect your player base to jump through paywalls to get their OLD STATS back?? What have you guys been drinking. Literally what are you guys doing?
Imagine people who have just gotten their first leg mount, spent 7Mil on ONE for 10K power, they’ll login to 5K. Only to be told they need 9more AND even then they need to make some mythic yo reach the same stat they originally made. I have 8 account leg, I have several geared toons, do you expect me to PAY for each toon to barely get over the stat I already originally had?? Guys what the actual.. If you were trying to kill your game, well done. This is def a way to make players quit. I’ve spent over 20k€ in this game but now I’ll not spend another dime. Listen to your customers before u lose more of them with this.
And i'll give an example. My 10k p mount before this, is now 7300p with 2700 combined rating (this with 8 legendary & 2 epic mounts).
My war triceratops is now 29.xxxk hp instead of the 50k, with 8x legend 2x epic. This is a huge drop.
Understand also, that we're talking about ONE CHARACTER. What if you up a few mounts then lose interest in your character? You're screwed.
Newer members in my guild have gotten 5k power mounts, they'll be lowered to 2.5k (i assume) and to get back to the 5k they need to spend real life money and or buy mounts in AH, with the 100k daily AD they can refine + change from dungeons.
It's not reasonable at all.
No matter how you look at it, they halved the stats then literally look us in the eye as they ask for money to get our stats back.
Had they wanted to fix this properly, they couldve let the mounts stats be the way they are with a bolster ontop, and later on to give us whatever stats for future mods, they could increase it. Instead they're greedy trolls who literally screw over the majority of their customers for a cashgrab (mind u, they've had several cashgrabs last months). Why don't u speak to your community and ASK them. You literally have platforms to speak to players and understand. Yet you spit in your customers face expecting they'll be ok with it and continue playing.. what..
With boldster going up to whatever you want, 50 100 200%. Just leave bolster to combined rating instead of literally f-ing your customers over thinking you're being smart removing what customers have paid for and using, making them jump through pay walls to get BACK TO WHERE THEY WERE. ON ONE CHARACTER. You're taking away the hard earned stats people have gained, only to go - now we take 50% of your mount stats, and u can get it back by paying hundreds of pounds dollars whatever your currency is. per character. I have 8 toons at 80 that i actually actively play. You know the maths, fix this or enjoy losing even more players cause of stupid 'buffs'.
Shame on you.
My SW has 18.5% bolster with 3555 powpow from what was 5k.. None of my chars has more than 3.8 (or so, think my main has around that) k power left, I have epic mounts and rare ones that have 3 insig slots.. and a shitton of skins that are green and whatnot.
Until now it was fine - I had saved up for the next round of the leg mount pack for a while.
Now I am a bit moody tbh, but thats just me, from my not-even-average POV.
On a serious note, unlike companions, the mount evolution process is strictly Zen business, which is worrying.
Caturday Survivor
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Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Also, you should include the free epic collar they give to you, for example 3% crit severity, thats worth more in damage than the power lost. But hey, If I dont equip the free collar, we lost power!!! unnaceptable!!
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
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Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
And i'd really love to hear some official reason, why this collection of broken HAMSTER was pushed onto the live server without testing it properly on the bloody damn TEST SERVER!
Btw. will the "free pack" be brought back online with the next patch?
Also, you should include the free epic collar they give to you, for example 3% crit severity, thats worth more in damage than the power lost. But hey, If I dont equip the free collar, we lost power!!! unnaceptable!!</blockquote>
Thats true.
So I will get this collar on all my toons? Now, and for all 5k power mounts I stored for my (future) toons?
The only ones that got hosed were the war triceratop buyers, but many of us have already moved on and passed the old 50k hp point anyway.
Does the 3% increased encounter damage have stacking problems with the 3% equipment effect on rings?
Btw, Love that my leg griffon now does 6.8% damage reduction instead of 15% (has to be myth with 100% bolster for 15%...), but swarm got buffed to make up some of the difference for not stacking...Griffon should be buffed to 20% at max bolster, mythic for a second huge nerf on the average tank who picks it up as we have to be on support mounts.
The system is far, FAR, too backloaded in terms of benefit. The bulk of the CR should have been at the front, as in, common quality mounts having ~3500-4000 CR, and then it scaling up to the mythic quality mounts having their ~5500 CR. That way, the people that actually need help hitting caps actually get that help, instead of the already stat rich getting even more stats that they may not even be able to do anything with. Well, they would still get them, but at least everyone gets the bulk of them, and far more people would actually benefit in a real way.
With reasonable investment, everyone will be back to where they were or beyond with the new mount update. If your talking about PvP exclusively.. they yes, it favors those that are Zen/AD healthy right now. For PvE... it helps everyone now, and makes the future of the game more interesting.
My personal concern is with the cost of upgrading alts. Lets examine the cost of bringing alts to end-game state:
* Ideally, you would start with one full set of max enchantments and runestones, 10 Legendary - Account mounts, 5 Mount Collars, and 15 Legendary Insignias. This base cost went up by a lot.
Now, the cost for each alt:
* 6 Legendary companions (12 million AD)
* 10 Mythic upgrades to mounts (10 million AD)
* Full set of Campaign buyouts (13 million AD)
The cost of bringing your main to max (using 10x ACCT bound mounts) has increasedj.
The cost of bringing each alt to max has increased.
Each of those alts would ideally run through all of Undermountain and Avernus as well (a lot of time for 7 alt characters).
I am torn between the desire for players to play the game to earn max status... which I agree with, and the high cost of bringing alts up to equal status as a main. It's a dilemma. For those of us who really earned their main...
... is it worth spending over two hundred million AD to develop a set of equivalent playable characters from each class, when we can still only play one character at a time?