DO NOT NERF TOMM

arazith07

Random queues for AD, Expeditions for companion gear, Avernus for armor and weapons...almost anything for RP/insignia RP

admiralwarlord#3792

gradii said:

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

Content like ToMM is beneficial for the game and I believe that its difficulty has to be maintained.
I can cite IC as an example, it was relatively difficult content, but today it is already possible to load someone weaker, which I think is bad for the game, since you get equipment that makes you move faster than you should.

This is the opinion of a player who can call himself a veteran and who never submitted ToMM.

No, altering existing content to "maintain" difficulty is the act of only the most unqualified terrible excuses for game developers.

Aside from level scaling, the content itself should not be nerfed, as players get better gear it will become easier on its own.

Yes, I want you to maintain the same difficulty. I hate having to see mechanics that hindered success like the second Boss of MSP or the last Boss of ToNG or the CoDG push / pull being changed because players can't waste 5 minutes to read a guide or watch a YouTube video of how reproduce them.

Many here are crying for ToMM to be nerfed, they are the same ones who asked to remove the difficulty of these contents.

greywynd

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

Yes, I want you to maintain the same difficulty. I hate having to see mechanics that hindered success like the second Boss of MSP or the last Boss of ToNG or the CoDG push / pull being changed because players can't waste 5 minutes to read a guide or watch a YouTube video of how reproduce them.

Many here are crying for ToMM to be nerfed, they are the same ones who asked to remove the difficulty of these contents.

I hate people shoving guides and videos at others. We learn by doing. Not by watching others playing the game.

nooneatza

greywynd said:

I hate people shoving guides and videos at others. We learn by doing. Not by watching others playing the game.

But...that is exactly how those people that made the guides learned, by going at it and learning the fight. People "shoving guides" in others faces are by all means trying to nudge them in the right direction.

In every single MMO's i have ever played, the hardest content required in one form or another for the player to know certain mechanics in order to succeed.
Be it by having a raid leader explaining the mechanics to people
OR
By having a story mode or a zone-specific dummy that executes the mechanic so you can...practice it
OR
By....researching guides on your own.

greywynd

...or by doing it until you get it.

nooneatza said:

...exactly how those people that made the guides learned...

vaultingfrog#2497

Perhaps instead of releasing a full on hardcore version of a trial they could release a "minor" version at the same time or before. Lesser rewards and lesser difficulty but with similar mechanics so people could get used to them...

Oh wait they did with demo... then they took it away for no real reason.

I for one can't afford to burn scrolls, stones and other pots in order to "practice" for, what was it people said... 30 hours? That's assuming it takes me that long. Could be more, could be less. Point being, if I can't survive long enough to experience the mechanics I don't learn anything. That burns AD much better spent elsewhere.

As I said, they should release either both versions at once or put the smaller/weaker version first then the hardcover stuff.

Almost impossible right now to get a Tomm group as a random player. Everybody has their clicks and premades which they refuse to deviate from. Zarial is no better.

bigman99#8273

greywynd said:

admiralwarlord#3792 said:

Yes, I want you to maintain the same difficulty. I hate having to see mechanics that hindered success like the second Boss of MSP or the last Boss of ToNG or the CoDG push / pull being changed because players can't waste 5 minutes to read a guide or watch a YouTube video of how reproduce them.

Many here are crying for ToMM to be nerfed, they are the same ones who asked to remove the difficulty of these contents.

I hate people shoving guides and videos at others. We learn by doing. Not by watching others playing the game.

We learn by doing both actually, and it is why as a species we have survived and thrived. We learn both from doing(taste food, tastes like burning, spit out, don't eat again) and from observation (see person eat food, die, not gonna eat that food). It is the ability to learn both ways that really gives humans an advantage. The problem with experience learning is it is a very harsh(potentially deadly) teacher. The issue with observation learning is you are not actively using your whole self to gather information, and may end up missing something crucial. Best results come from doing both, one then the other. Guides serve their purpose, as do training runs.

greywynd

"The three basic types of learning styles are visual, auditory, and kinesthetic. To learn, we depend on our senses to process the information around us. Most people tend to use one of their senses more than the others."

Some can learn by watching. Some can learn by listening. The majority learn by doing.

zimxero#8085

If ToMM were to be redone knowing what I know now... I would have made the 3 stages escalate in difficulty, giving 1 Lion's Guard currency for finishing stage 1, 3 for finishing stage 2. Only finishing third stage would award the chest and remaining currency. This would have encouraged somewhat undergeared players to run the trial.. and the training would become natural instead of having a trial that actually requires formal training.

Stage 1: Halaster Health & damage at 70% (1 unit of Lion's Guard currency)
Stage 2: Halaster Health & damage at 90% (3 units of Lion's Guard currency)
Stage 3: Halaster Health & damage at 110% (chests & remaining Lion's Guard currency)

vastano#2343

zimxero#8085 said:

If ToMM were to be redone knowing what I know now... I would have made the 3 stages escalate in difficulty, giving 1 Lion's Guard currency for finishing stage 1, 3 for finishing stage 2. Only finishing third stage would award the chest and remaining currency. This would have encouraged somewhat undergeared players to run the trial.. and the training would become natural instead of having a trial that actually requires formal training.

Stage 1: Halaster Health & damage at 70% (1 unit of Lion's Guard currency)
Stage 2: Halaster Health & damage at 90% (3 units of Lion's Guard currency)
Stage 3: Halaster Health & damage at 110% (chests & remaining Lion's Guard currency)

or in other words
normal (1 unit of lionguard currency)
hard (2 units of lionguard currency
or elite (chests and remaining lionguard currency)
this set up works in at least 1 mmo i played
no reason it couldnt work here
also might i add to that 1 dungeon 3 different runs

admiralwarlord#3792

No one needs to read a guide or watch a tutorial video. It's just an easier way that I think. Now, if any reason you want or whoever wants to learn, please, whatever your choice, but don't complain about difficulty.

oldtimer#7525

vaultingfrog#2497 said:

I for one can't afford to burn scrolls, stones and other pots in order to "practice" for, what was it people said... 30 hours? That's assuming it takes me that long. Could be more, could be less. Point being, if I can't survive long enough to experience the mechanics I don't learn anything. That burns AD much better spent elsewhere.

My group practised for ~7 hours to beat the initial preview version of ZC twice ( we had 1 person that was in closed beta to give us tips in Phase 1 and 2 where there were near 0 mechanics, the rest we figured out on our own ) and 5 hours to beat the live version 3 times. A coordinated group would not need more than 10-12 or so hours without prior experience to finish the trial, half that or less if there are people that already know the mechanics and call them.

Preview server exists, that is where everyone practised for free for as long as they wanted, only difference is you miss 10k HP from not having VIP bonus which won't make or break your group. The cost of practising ZC ( or any other piece of content ) is 30 GB of drive space if you play on PC.

vaultingfrog#2497

> @oldtimer#7525 said:
> (Quote)
> My group practised for ~7 hours to beat the initial preview version of ZC twice ( we had 1 person that was in closed beta to give us tips in Phase 1 and 2 where there were near 0 mechanics, the rest we figured out on our own ) and 5 hours to beat the live version 3 times. A coordinated group would not need more than 10-12 or so hours without prior experience to finish the trial, half that or less if there are people that already know the mechanics and call them.
>
> Preview server exists, that is where everyone practised for free for as long as they wanted, only difference is you miss 10k HP from not having VIP bonus which won't make or break your group. The cost of practising ZC ( or any other piece of content ) is 30 GB of drive space if you play on PC.

It exists for PC... there is no such thing on consoles.

We don't get a place with no consequences like you folks.

So... yeah, level playing field there. What costs you all nothing takes up hundreds of thousands if not millions of AD for us.

zyronax

> @oldtimer#7525 said:
> (Quote)
> My group practised for ~7 hours to beat the initial preview version of ZC twice ( we had 1 person that was in closed beta to give us tips in Phase 1 and 2 where there were near 0 mechanics, the rest we figured out on our own ) and 5 hours to beat the live version 3 times. A coordinated group would not need more than 10-12 or so hours without prior experience to finish the trial, half that or less if there are people that already know the mechanics and call them.
>
> Preview server exists, that is where everyone practised for free for as long as they wanted, only difference is you miss 10k HP from not having VIP bonus which won't make or break your group. The cost of practising ZC ( or any other piece of content ) is 30 GB of drive space if you play on PC.

Quite sure the intended purpose of preview server by the devs is for players to provide feedback & report on bugs - not as a dozens-upon-dozens of hours of practice runs.

Now, clearly that is what you and a tiny percentage of the game population do, but do not presume to present that as what: 1) is standard, nor 2) should be done.

To which I anticipate some bright spark will respond with something akin to, "Do it or miss out/Get gud", etc. Thing is that this game needs far more than a handful of so-called 'elites' (there are other descriptive terms for players who all but live in a game), and frankly it strikes me as out-of-order to play the full-game before it is officially released in a full-state. But hey ho. Have at it. In the meantime this game will continue to bleed players as the focus is on a small cadre whom are far less important than they seem to think they are.

What goes around, comes around.

arazith07

zyronax said:

Quite sure the intended purpose of preview server by the devs is for players to provide feedback & report on bugs - not as a dozens-upon-dozens of hours of practice runs.



Now, clearly that is what you and a tiny percentage of the game population do, but do not presume to present that as what: 1) is standard, nor 2) should be done.



To which I anticipate some bright spark will respond with something akin to, "Do it or miss out/Get gud", etc. Thing is that this game needs far more than a handful of so-called 'elites' (there are other descriptive terms for players who all but live in a game), and frankly it strikes me as out-of-order to play the full-game before it is officially released in a full-state. But hey ho. Have at it. In the meantime this game will continue to bleed players as the focus is on a small cadre whom are far less important than they seem to think they are.



What goes around, comes around.

Who, aside from yourself says that is the only purpose for preview? Where has a developer said that preview shouldn't be used for practice runs, or for trying out new builds, or any of the other reasons a player might use preview? They support players who make videos on opening thousands of lockboxes on preview to show chances to get items for crying out loud. So where do you get this claim that players should not use preview to practice group content?

This type of content, that encourages people to work together is the primary purpose of an MMO. They want people to actively play their game, and player interactions is what keeps players invested and keep wanting to come back beyond what ever fomo content was released. This shouldn't be a game where everyone treats it like a single player game where you happen to do some group content without ANY coordination like with all the older content.

To say that they are only making content for the "elites" is a blatant lie or at the very least said without any thought of the long term. ToMM will become easier with time due to power creep, eventually it will be just as easy as any of the other trials are now. There needs to be content for players to work towards, to have a goal, if you don't make content for them, why would anyone want to grind to get there? For a long time (from M6-16) I never felt the need to max out my enchantments, or a big need to get the latest armor or weapons, simply because I could do everything with the average stuff I had already just from doing campaigns. I would do content just for the story, then move on to another game while waiting for new content. But now I have something to work for and a reason to get higher enchantment ranks. And once I get there, I will start forming stronger bonds with my friends in NW from all the shared experience of conquering new content that requires teamwork and perseverance.

If you aren't a social person, trials or dungeons just aren't where you should focus, just continue playing this game like a single player one.

keru#9279

>..... alot of end game player spent week to lern mechanic, spent alot of AD for potion ,stone.....so is no point to nerf it,

A lot of us spend many resources including $$$ to build our Toons and they don't care they still nerf us. Lol