Emissary of warding reduced from 100% to 50%.... I can tell you that if you don't have this feat, you cannot heal properly and quickly, or mitigate the incoming damage, especially for endgame trials contents or even for the Arcuria's cocoon . This nerf is unacceptable and is really too strong. Please don't do drastic changes like that (you could have tried 75% first for instance, wny so much at once????). The other changes are already questionnable but this one is the worst for the paladin. Not to mention that this could cause a rework of all endgame trials because people will receive too much damage, especially when there are several big attacks in a row
The fact that all endgame trials *would* need to be reworked in the event of an overshield nerf highlights exactly the problem with paladin atm. It should be very clear that a class/mechanic is overpowered when it is pretty much a requirement for endgame content.
It is more the other way around: Bad design of endgame content requiring too much protection + shields on top. Paladins are not overpowered, they prevent damage and oneshot (but have very bad healing if no crit). Not the fault of paladins if for example Superstorm was too strong to be mitigated by other healers. I prefer the other healers to have better damage mitigation tools than removing what makes the paladin a paladin.
I've spent a bit of time on preview testing and comparing a few things to live on my Cleric.
I think I went through all of the stages of grief.... I wish you guys would warn us that you're going to make these big changes BEFORE you do this. Seriously, it's more than a gal can bear!
In order to get divinity regeneration comparable on Preview to Live, it's ideal to use Divine Glow. Cycle of Prayer gets close(ish), using Cycle of Prayer with Divine Glow is better (an extra 4 seconds to fully regen divinity over JUST Divine Glow), but Divine Glow on it's own seemed to be best. The problem though, is the cooldown. 27-29 second cooldown(depending on if you have anything to help reduce cooldowns) for 12 second uptime. Could this look at a rework? Cooldowns above 15-20 seconds is (IMO) quite high. Maybe a 14s cooldown, with a 6 second uptime.
Warlocks and Pally's have a feat that allows them the regenerate divinity/soulweave by either doing damage or taking damage. Clerics do not have that option. Our regenerate divinity feat feels... substandard, we have no incentive or need to do damage. And, in fact, my one damaging encounter that I did use (Geas) will now be switched for Divine Glow.
I ran a couple of tests with a group today, after the preview patch, and the entire group could see the mark, except the tank, but she COULD see it during the cutscene for CODG.
Visibility of the mark is a big problem, can it PLEASE be raised!!! so many times I just could NOT see it because of the tanks green HP bar and blue stam bar. Also, can we have a mark next to the agro meter (to the right?). Because even if I lose sight of it above their head, a quick glance to the party list allows me to see it there.
I found that I was being interupted more during casting, whether it's just that preview is a bit laggier than live, I'm not sure. But it's a BIG problem for trying to do those BIG tab heals for the tank. If I'm interupted, NOTHING casts. not even a partial cast (for example, if I had been holding the tab down for half the time, it should have cast a smaller heal). This lead to me saying lots of words that my child shouldn't have heard (maybe testing on preview shouldn't occur while she is around?)
Not sure what can be done about that? The interupting while casting is a HUGE bugbear of mine. I'm in Aus, I'm lucky if I get a ping below 300. This creates extra challanges for me for the game, it also means I'm more likely to be interupted while casting, be caught in red (because, I don't get as much time to react), and also, more likely to fall off platforms for mechanics such as in CODG (although, I usually survive that now, unless I get a random lag spike....) But... just something to consider... not everyone who plays the game are lucky enough to have great connections... some of us suffer with high latency.
As with all changes, it will take a bit of getting used to, but I can see that I'm going to really like the new tab mechanic. As with pretty much everyone else, I'm not terribly impressed with the reductions to the ICH and OGH, and the changes to crit severity for healers (I'm actually really frustrated about it, but I'm trying to be polite), especially after all of the time and effort I put in after mod 16 to get my healing to where it is now. But... this is a fluid game, and anything can change at any time.
Is there any reason why DCs only have 1 encounter that generates divinity but the OP has 2 encounters that generates divinity?
Also as to the healing issue of OPs being better healers then SW and DCs and the complaints of overshields perhaps one way of making each healer unique would be as follows:
Change divine shalter to only give overshield and no direct healing that way you will need a 2nd healer to do the direct healing. Remove the shielding from divine touch.
Change the DC and warlock healer to do direct healing. One specialise in burst healing and one can specialise in stacking HOT.
That way at least the raid can choose what they want as the 2nd healer.
Also it would be ideal if you increased the frequency of passive divinity gain rather then every 3 seconds. You can keep the amount gained the same just tick more often.
Emissary of warding reduced from 100% to 50%.... I can tell you that if you don't have this feat, you cannot heal properly and quickly, or mitigate the incoming damage, especially for endgame trials contents or even for the Arcuria's cocoon . This nerf is unacceptable and is really too strong. Please don't do drastic changes like that (you could have tried 75% first for instance, wny so much at once????). The other changes are already questionnable but this one is the worst for the paladin. Not to mention that this could cause a rework of all endgame trials because people will receive too much damage, especially when there are several big attacks in a row
The fact that all endgame trials *would* need to be reworked in the event of an overshield nerf highlights exactly the problem with paladin atm. It should be very clear that a class/mechanic is overpowered when it is pretty much a requirement for endgame content.
It is more the other way around: Bad design of endgame content requiring too much protection + shields on top. Paladins are not overpowered, they prevent damage and oneshot (but have very bad healing if no crit). Not the fault of paladins if for example Superstorm was too strong to be mitigated by other healers. I prefer the other healers to have better damage mitigation tools than removing what makes the paladin a paladin.
Wait, you're halfway agreeing with me here. Damage is too high and the "poor design" you mentioned is the result of balancing around shields. I think the fact that content needs to be balanced with pally shields in mind is the problem. I don't think pally should just be "cleric with a shield". It should absolutely have the best damage mitigation abilities and should be the best protector of the three healers. BUT overshields are the problem - same goes for the (small) shield that warlock is getting and the hell pact feat.
For comparison I'll use preview warlock assuming the have Feypact (the HoT feat). Using soul barrier a warlock can have 10% dmg mitigation and an overshield based on a 200mag heal(basically nothing). That comes at the cost of a full AP bar and temporarily disabling their lifespark. In a single target fight a warlock can also reduce incoming dmg by an additional 5% for 6s on a . Assuming these add, there's a 15% dmg reduction with a small shield. And I mean really small. My warlock sits ~150k power before any procs and after the outgoing changes is sitting at 23% outgoing heal and the shield is barely 1/10 of the hp bar. Pally on the other hand can keep their shields up all the time -> 100% dmg mitigation for divinity.
Again, Balancing around the idea that players will have overshields is part why most fights dps are at 100% or dead. I can't tell you how many times I've seen players just pop. It doesn't leave healers other than pally with enough time to properly heal in a lot of scenarios. Even if DPS players stack HP and cap defenses, it just means cleric and warlock have to do more healing (higher HP pool) which is going to put even further strain on their resources.
I mostly play warlock but I also have a pocket cleric and pally. Of the three, aside from healchecks like arcturia's cc pally is the strongest in just about any situation. Removing, giving pally %dmg mitigation options, and increasing their healnig ability is a better approach imo. They'd still be very desirable for endgame content, but they wouldn't be a requirement.
Either way, @asterdahl 's posts has made it kinda clear that overshields aren't going anywhere any time soon. At least warlock is getting infernal barrier for 5man content I guess. Kinda puts cleric in a bad spot, yeah?
Group healing effectivness reduce depending on allies arround heal effect area. To heal what we could before would reuire more divinity. Even cast shielding would require more divinity. Also divinity regeneration no longer active, but become passive.
The meta become x2 paladin.
When paladin grant his barrier, it's work more less as granting extra HP pool. And when paldin does that, he can more less simply step away and restore divinity till barrier got depleted and expire.
Now take x2 paladin healers in group and here you have effect.
First paladin grant barrier, spend divinity and step back to restore divinity. Then second paladin step in front and do same, heal or generate barrier, when spend divnity, he switch places with first paladin. And thats nonstop circle.
Also they can both use same healing and shielding, so even with group healing effectivness got reduced, their both combo still allow heal more with less divinity usage.. Cuz shielding allow paldin simply do nothing and restore divinity while shield is up on allies..
Clerics have no shielding, thats mean they have use healing more offten, also power like Astral Shield while channeling it, you spening divinity. Thats mean no benefits, no time to restore divinity. While paladin can stit and do noting and get divinity restored.
Warlocks - no cleansing effect means he need outheal Bleed/poison, and good luck with that. Also shield overriding means it's unstable in group runs. One moment you grant barrier like 25% or 30% or max players HP. In other use you grant 5% of max players Hp.
Also group healing reduction factor HAMSTER up that even more.
So neither warlock neither cleric get anywhere near paladin.
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Group healing effectivness reduce depending on allies arround heal effect area. To heal what we could before would reuire more divinity. Even cast shielding would require more divinity. Also divinity regeneration no longer active, but become passive.
The meta become x2 paladin.
When paladin grant his barrier, it's work more less as granting extra HP pool. And when paldin does that, he can more less simply step away and restore divinity till barrier got depleted and expire.
Now take x2 paladin healers in group and here you have effect.
First paladin grant barrier, spend divinity and step back to restore divinity. Then second paladin step in front and do same, heal or generate barrier, when spend divnity, he switch places with first paladin. And thats nonstop circle.
Also they can both use same healing and shielding, so even with group healing effectivness got reduced, their both combo still allow heal more with less divinity usage.. Cuz shielding allow paldin simply do nothing and restore divinity while shield is up on allies..
Clerics have no shielding, thats mean they have use healing more offten, also power like Astral Shield while channeling it, you spening divinity. Thats mean no benefits, no time to restore divinity. While paladin can stit and do noting and get divinity restored.
Warlocks - no cleansing effect means he need outheal Bleed/poison, and good luck with that. Also shield overriding means it's unstable in group runs. One moment you grant barrier like 25% or 30% or max players HP. In other use you grant 5% of max players Hp.
Also group healing reduction factor HAMSTER up that even more.
So neither warlock neither cleric get anywhere near paladin.
Except that atm for Zariel you have a Paladin proving group shielding for mostly the dps and conversing divinity and either a warlock or a cleric focusing on the tank.
Any group try bring x2 pala healers in new trial. And to check out how's goes in comparison to other heal combinations??
Post edited by hadestemplar#9918 on
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
@asterdahl What are your thoughts on removing Stone of Health, Scrolls of Mass Life and Scrolls of Life?
Why he should do that??
I mean, even I am not fan of using them I know that they are things are needed in game.. After all how's game will gets their incomes?? Game does not run entirelly free.. Staff need to generate incomes through something..
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
2
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Any group try bring x2 pala healers in new trial. And to check out how's goes in comparison to other heal combinations??
From what I understand, there is no need to do this. Shields will just override each other and from what I understand, even just one paladin is mostly just standing around not doing much except to cover unavoidable damage or mess ups.
More importantly they should be there for 'weaker' players. Not every character/player are equal in skill and ability so having these 'failsaves' is a decent idea. FYI, I don't use them all that much personally. In fact, the other day I got chastised for not using a scroll during a fight vs the worm that was going to hell 'cause I personally felt it be wasted. If you don't like using them don't use them. I try to avoid using them because I feel it means the battle went awry but it is good to have a fallback for those who aren't 'perfect'.
Any group try bring x2 pala healers in new trial. And to check out how's goes in comparison to other heal combinations??
From what I understand, there is no need to do this. Shields will just override each other and from what I understand, even just one paladin is mostly just standing around not doing much except to cover unavoidable damage or mess ups.
Second Paladin healer use TAB(marking) on tank or use single target healing.. But also work as safeguard if main heal paladin gets in complicated situation.. Thats why I wonder do anyone have try that combo,, | Also I hope I am wrong and x2 pala will not become meta.. I trully hope that.
======================================================================== “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim. Gustave Le Bon. ==================================================
You have to change mechanics of blue shields otherwise small shields of warlocks always will interrupt big shields of paladins and.. no one will take warlocks in group 100%. To fix this you need to change mechanics of shields from always replace active shield to replace shield only if new shield is bigger.
You don't need to put a large image in the body of your post to get us to read it. Even if we don't find the time to respond individually, please know that your feedback does make it to us. The image doesn't have any impact on the chance that we'll read your post.
In regards to shields—please note that warlocks can choose not to use their shields. Warlock shields are only applied if they have chosen hellpact, or if they are explicitly using the infernal barrier at-will. When in 10-player parties with two healers, and teamed up with a Paladin, it would be optimal to switch to feypact, and not use infernal barrier regardless of whether they were overriden.
While I do understand the desire for shields to work in a different way, note that there are of course downsides to all manners in which they might work. Firstly, we do not plan to allow shields to stack—this behavior would be too powerful—further suppressing the need for actual healing.
However, would could imagine the more powerful shield always remaining intact, however, note that these shields do have durations. A more powerful shield with 3 seconds remaining preventing a slightly weaker shield from being applied 4 seconds before a large attack hits the party would be absolutely infuriating.
We believe it is simpler that all shields behave in the manner that the currently behave, but of course, we are always monitoring performance and feedback. Note that the warlock's lifespark companion can apply shields when the warlock chooses hellpact as well, but that these shields which are rather small, will only be applied to players who do not currently have any shield.
As you know,shields are always more useful than healing,if you do not wish to remove it then atleast make all warlock shields like inspitiy(lifespark heal/shield) please,you are saying we can switch to HoT feat but that would require another loadout slot which are already quite tough to spare, tl;dr please make bigger shields not get consumed by smaller ones please,the warlocks would love you Edit::or liek an AMAZING SUGGESTION,make shield feat into a class feat so we can slot it in and out
Post edited by usmanazeem#8526 on
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
After a few tests done yesterday in Avernus I can confirm that doing daily and weekly quests has become an horrible pain in the neck for a Soulweaver Warlock. Removing damage and multiple stacking from Harrowstorm (now Soulstorm) reduced damage to an abysmal level. Healing in solo is definitely overabundant. I can stay in the middle of a minor encounter in Avernus, let 10 monsters beat me without even dodging and unless I get perma-controlled I can easily outheal all damage, but killing them with BotVA, Dreadtheft and at-wills takes forever. On live I can clear a minor encounter with my 24k Soulweaver but I have to move and slip to avoid part of the damage. On preview I can stand and outheal everything but can't kill the monsters within the allowed time, no matter what I do. Just give us a bit of damage back in order not to make daily campaign stuff a pain.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
with the 'repeated blessing feat' we could extend the duration of the HOT of healing word, but astral shield doesn't do it; it doesn't count as an healing encounter?
we can use intercession every 23 second, usually it was for the tank but, with tab mechanics, we could use a more powerful heal, and even if intercession doesn't cost divinity, to get a 1500 magnitude heal with tab mechanics cost only 100 divinity and 1 sec to cast (50 divinity and 0,5 sec if you have battle prayer). doesn't this make intercession a bit useless? 50-100 divinity is easy to recover.
astrasl shield, it's radius is small, all the player move, always, and expecially in trial if we have to cover 10 player i advise to increase the radius of astral shield and hollowed ground to at least 15-20 for astral shield and 30-35 for hollowed ground. hollowed ground is a daily and using it only for an attack is a waste, the area is too small, we would rather use angel of life+astral shield, at least we could cancel the shield and the angel keep healinf everyone.
dev said we could attack in the time previously used to pray, but i'd rather slot healing and buffing spell (like exaltation and blessing of light), the only powers that deal damage are geas and secred flames (20 sec cooldown, 500 magnitude decrease damage dealt by 5%: sacred flame at will deal more damage in less time, and 5% debuff is useless (imo even 10% of astral shiled an hollowed ground is too little)). geas is weak; sacred flames, as said, i'd rather keep blessing of light and soothe to have some nice economic heal.
divine glow : reduce your threat by half, this was useful (i think) when we could spamm healing, now we have to be careful with resouces is this really necessary? it has 28.6 sec cooldown and the only useful effect is a divinity regeneration that is useful only until we adjust our healing style to the new adjustement
towering light feat : we deal more damage the less divinty we have, this could work in a hybrid heal-dps build, but we should get some useful way to do damage without using divinity, that could synergize with cycle of prayer; but we don't have any way to deal good damage. at least blessed armaments make us more resistent and synergize with exaltation that inclrease our healing and damage, so i find towering light a bit useless.
annointed arm feat : it halves the duration and the heal, but give +3% damage, so if i'm useless as a healer i can at least increase the damage of the party, but that is the only useful buff power and it buff only 3% for 10 second every 2-3 min, in the mean time i keep being a useless healer. if i were a useful healer then i'd rather have persistent guardian that apply a nice hot.
personally i don't like the class features, i am using the les useless rather than the more useful (or so it appear to me)
a little change i'd like to see : sun burst is uselss in party content and in solo content , can we give it the effect of cleansing light when we choose the devout and add a new encounter in place of cleansing light?
i find the healer boring since the changes of mod 16, we were helpful in challenges because we could aid the party overcome stronger enemies, now all we can do is keep the red bar full but that doesn't increase the survivability nor the enjoiment.
if i'm doing something wrong tell me please, we are healer, but end-game content need at least 1 paladin, to keep them alive, so cleric and warlock are only there to full hp while the paladin keep people alive? we are simply a spammable stone on health? because this is how i see the cleric.
i'm feeling a little depressed over this, we have become what in pre mod 16 was a mechanics (lifesteal)
-You claim the removal of channeling divinity allows healers more time to attack with at-wills in combat, but why would we want that? this damage is irrelevant in higher level content, and no longer procs effects such as prayer of opportunity or critical touch if it is a damaging at-will on paladin for example, I would much rather be able to channel divinity during this time. Even the new feat for paladins 'battle focus' does not support this change, it provides minimal divinity regen and only requires hitting the boss once every 6 seconds, this could have been easily achieved without the removal of the old channel divinity. -I suggest re-working this feat to provide more divinty regeneration with a somewhat less achieveable requirement than simply hitting an enemy, perhaps sustained damage for a few seconds for example.
-Similarly, channeling divinty's restriction to movement added another layer of skill to gameplay, allowing better players to know when they have time to restore some divinty, and when they must focus on repositioning, just as one example.
We did also receive quite a lot of feedback after the launch of Module 16 that many healers found the gameplay of channel divinity boring. We do understand that to some degree this change does lower the skill ceiling for healers. Those who would optimize their channel divinity uptime and squeeze every last ounce out of generating extra divinity during combat could dramatically increase their effectiveness.
However, the situation you describe of having to be more careful when selecting your healing spells, as well as when to cast them is an intentional shift. We're shifting the mechanical difficulty of healer from optimizing your channel divinity uptime to more careful use of healing spells. On live, there isn't necessarily a lot of thought that goes into when to cast a healing spell, or who to cast it on.
In the current live meta, we observed that healers who could optimize their channel divinity uptime could keep groups up through failed mechanics almost indefinitely. We are looking to put healing in a place where it can keep a good performing group alive of course, as well as help a group recover from some mistakes—but when a group is making repeated mistakes—we are aiming to make failure happen more quickly in that instance.
Of course, we do want healing classes to be enjoyable to play, so we will absolutely take your feedback now, and in the coming months. Nothing on preview is written in stone, changes and fixes will continue to happen, both before launch and in future modules and updates.
As a Cleric I PUG, A LOT. If groups failing mechanics will actually fail, then a lot of content will fail constantly. The current live content doesn't seem to work in a way the rewards an undergeared, but meets requirements for entry, group who follows mechanics with success. Furthermore, most "learn how to do it" trials and dungeons don't exist in game.
Froger - Barbarian - Original Main - The Freak Core - Xbone Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - The Freak Core - Xbone Magnus - Fighter - Tank for queues - The Freak Core - Xbone Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Considering that the trial was already finished with only one pally healer I guess there's no point pretending the 3 healing classes are even close to balance.
Sad, very sad. Heals are Epic fail. If mono heal (not important wich class Is) is viable It is bad. Please fix new challenge and ToMM to have 2 healers and 2 Tanks. Please.
Yes, it's sad but that's exactly what we have been warning. The fact is they made a class that's so overpowered that healing is barely needed and when is needed the class itself can do it. What's there for the other healers? If the dps has 500k hp, if you give them half a blue bar that's comparable to give him 250k extra hp, thats 5x what a legendary mount can give, and from the video thats more the rule than the exception. How are other healers supposed to compete with that?
well rainer put a video where they do it without palahealer : with a cleric and a warlock it took 4 minutes more and there were a lot more of death, for similiar item level (cleric warloc and paladin). we can say: cleric+warloc < paldin alone.
this is hilarious.
750k (500 base+250 shield) is more HP than what a lot of mid game tank can get and, if memory serve me right, a nice value for tomm and ic for expert player. so next we will see 1 op healer and all dps, because we can get a gf dps with a shield to do the hard tanking, and all the other stuff can be survived.
Very sad to see this new changes coming to the game.
I play as a soulweaver warlock on console and I don't have any motivation to keep playing anymore. Yes, I was expecting changes to the character! but to something good.
I see ppl saying warlock m19 is more like single target focused, the only thing I can think is "Palla can heal and shield 10 ppl in a trial at the same time and soulweaver 'kinda' heal a single target...."
Dev says: "warlock is getting shield mechanics, but it's better u guys don't use it because it will override pallas shield....and it doesn't' stack " That's the solution they are giving us. Better say "if u use, be prepared to get kicked from sessions." obviously if we get invited to this new content.
I won't' even say the 'targeting to heal' system will be a failure on consoles....
Would be nice from them to give us some refund, I have invested so much money into the game to play this end game content just to see that they don't' have any interest to make healers balanced.
Im just getting the 100k ad daily but if this wtf changes really come to the game I think I will have to move on.
Hope the Devs are still reading and taking in consideration players opinions.
Very sad to see this new changes coming to the game.
I play as a soulweaver warlock on console and I don't have any motivation to keep playing anymore. Yes, I was expecting changes to the character! but to something good.
I see ppl saying warlock m19 is more like single target focused, the only thing I can think is "Palla can heal and shield 10 ppl in a trial at the same time and soulweaver 'kinda' heal a single target...."
Dev says: "warlock is getting shield mechanics, but it's better u guys don't use it because it will override pallas shield....and it doesn't' stack " That's the solution they are giving us. Better say "if u use, be prepared to get kicked from sessions." obviously if we get invited to this new content.
I won't' even say the 'targeting to heal' system will be a failure on consoles....
Would be nice from them to give us some refund, I have invested so much money into the game to play this end game content just to see that they don't' have any interest to make healers balanced.
Im just getting the 100k ad daily but if this wtf changes really come to the game I think I will have to move on.
Hope the Devs are still reading and taking in consideration players opinions.
Regards,
While I don't expect a refund cause its a F2P game and any money I spent was a choice I made, I feel very much the same way. Been around since 2013 (2015 on this account - i was young and lost the password :P) but its looking like the designers have their heads in the sand in their ears covered more so than ever before.
So, while I do sort of agree, I will point out that he's trying to move all three healers to more ST healing and less AoE healing. That's not a bad thing in theory IF we had better targeting. In other games where this is successful to have large ST heals balanced by small AoE heals, they have better targeting. And the targeting works. On PC, there is keybinding. It can be a PitA, but it's possible, On console, not so much. Targeting is the problem with this particular idea, not the idea itself.
Comments
I think I went through all of the stages of grief.... I wish you guys would warn us that you're going to make these big changes BEFORE you do this. Seriously, it's more than a gal can bear!
In order to get divinity regeneration comparable on Preview to Live, it's ideal to use Divine Glow. Cycle of Prayer gets close(ish), using Cycle of Prayer with Divine Glow is better (an extra 4 seconds to fully regen divinity over JUST Divine Glow), but Divine Glow on it's own seemed to be best. The problem though, is the cooldown. 27-29 second cooldown(depending on if you have anything to help reduce cooldowns) for 12 second uptime. Could this look at a rework? Cooldowns above 15-20 seconds is (IMO) quite high. Maybe a 14s cooldown, with a 6 second uptime.
Warlocks and Pally's have a feat that allows them the regenerate divinity/soulweave by either doing damage or taking damage. Clerics do not have that option. Our regenerate divinity feat feels... substandard, we have no incentive or need to do damage. And, in fact, my one damaging encounter that I did use (Geas) will now be switched for Divine Glow.
I ran a couple of tests with a group today, after the preview patch, and the entire group could see the mark, except the tank, but she COULD see it during the cutscene for CODG.
Visibility of the mark is a big problem, can it PLEASE be raised!!! so many times I just could NOT see it because of the tanks green HP bar and blue stam bar. Also, can we have a mark next to the agro meter (to the right?). Because even if I lose sight of it above their head, a quick glance to the party list allows me to see it there.
I found that I was being interupted more during casting, whether it's just that preview is a bit laggier than live, I'm not sure. But it's a BIG problem for trying to do those BIG tab heals for the tank. If I'm interupted, NOTHING casts. not even a partial cast (for example, if I had been holding the tab down for half the time, it should have cast a smaller heal). This lead to me saying lots of words that my child shouldn't have heard (maybe testing on preview shouldn't occur while she is around?)
Not sure what can be done about that? The interupting while casting is a HUGE bugbear of mine. I'm in Aus, I'm lucky if I get a ping below 300. This creates extra challanges for me for the game, it also means I'm more likely to be interupted while casting, be caught in red (because, I don't get as much time to react), and also, more likely to fall off platforms for mechanics such as in CODG (although, I usually survive that now, unless I get a random lag spike....) But... just something to consider... not everyone who plays the game are lucky enough to have great connections... some of us suffer with high latency.
As with all changes, it will take a bit of getting used to, but I can see that I'm going to really like the new tab mechanic. As with pretty much everyone else, I'm not terribly impressed with the reductions to the ICH and OGH, and the changes to crit severity for healers (I'm actually really frustrated about it, but I'm trying to be polite), especially after all of the time and effort I put in after mod 16 to get my healing to where it is now. But... this is a fluid game, and anything can change at any time.
Co-Guild Leader
Ghost Templars L20
Alliance: Tyrs Paladium
Main: Cleric (Heals|DPS)
Alt: Warlock
Also as to the healing issue of OPs being better healers then SW and DCs and the complaints of overshields perhaps one way of making each healer unique would be as follows:
Change divine shalter to only give overshield and no direct healing that way you will need a 2nd healer to do the direct healing. Remove the shielding from divine touch.
Change the DC and warlock healer to do direct healing. One specialise in burst healing and one can specialise in stacking HOT.
That way at least the raid can choose what they want as the 2nd healer.
Also it would be ideal if you increased the frequency of passive divinity gain rather then every 3 seconds. You can keep the amount gained the same just tick more often.
For comparison I'll use preview warlock assuming the have Feypact (the HoT feat). Using soul barrier a warlock can have 10% dmg mitigation and an overshield based on a 200mag heal(basically nothing). That comes at the cost of a full AP bar and temporarily disabling their lifespark. In a single target fight a warlock can also reduce incoming dmg by an additional 5% for 6s on a . Assuming these add, there's a 15% dmg reduction with a small shield. And I mean really small. My warlock sits ~150k power before any procs and after the outgoing changes is sitting at 23% outgoing heal and the shield is barely 1/10 of the hp bar. Pally on the other hand can keep their shields up all the time -> 100% dmg mitigation for divinity.
Again, Balancing around the idea that players will have overshields is part why most fights dps are at 100% or dead. I can't tell you how many times I've seen players just pop. It doesn't leave healers other than pally with enough time to properly heal in a lot of scenarios. Even if DPS players stack HP and cap defenses, it just means cleric and warlock have to do more healing (higher HP pool) which is going to put even further strain on their resources.
I mostly play warlock but I also have a pocket cleric and pally. Of the three, aside from healchecks like arcturia's cc pally is the strongest in just about any situation. Removing, giving pally %dmg mitigation options, and increasing their healnig ability is a better approach imo. They'd still be very desirable for endgame content, but they wouldn't be a requirement.
Either way, @asterdahl 's posts has made it kinda clear that overshields aren't going anywhere any time soon. At least warlock is getting infernal barrier for 5man content I guess. Kinda puts cleric in a bad spot, yeah?
Group healing effectivness reduce depending on allies arround heal effect area.
To heal what we could before would reuire more divinity.
Even cast shielding would require more divinity. Also divinity regeneration no longer active, but become passive.
The meta become x2 paladin.
When paladin grant his barrier, it's work more less as granting extra HP pool. And when paldin does that, he can more less simply step away and restore divinity till barrier got depleted and expire.
Now take x2 paladin healers in group and here you have effect.
First paladin grant barrier, spend divinity and step back to restore divinity. Then second paladin step in front and do same, heal or generate barrier, when spend divnity, he switch places with first paladin. And thats nonstop circle.
Also they can both use same healing and shielding, so even with group healing effectivness got reduced, their both combo still allow heal more with less divinity usage.. Cuz shielding allow paldin simply do nothing and restore divinity while shield is up on allies..
Clerics have no shielding, thats mean they have use healing more offten, also power like Astral Shield while channeling it, you spening divinity. Thats mean no benefits, no time to restore divinity. While paladin can stit and do noting and get divinity restored.
Warlocks - no cleansing effect means he need outheal Bleed/poison, and good luck with that.
Also shield overriding means it's unstable in group runs. One moment you grant barrier like 25% or 30% or max players HP. In other use you grant 5% of max players Hp.
Also group healing reduction factor HAMSTER up that even more.
So neither warlock neither cleric get anywhere near paladin.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
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Any group try bring x2 pala healers in new trial. And to check out how's goes in comparison to other heal combinations??
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
I mean, even I am not fan of using them I know that they are things are needed in game.. After all how's game will gets their incomes?? Game does not run entirelly free.. Staff need to generate incomes through something..
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
But also work as safeguard if main heal paladin gets in complicated situation.. Thats why I wonder do anyone have try that combo,,
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Also I hope I am wrong and x2 pala will not become meta.. I trully hope that.
“The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
Gustave Le Bon.
==================================================
Allow warlocks to grant temporary full damage immunity. (Like shamans)
Return to the clergy the astral shield that was before m16. Or strengthen existing
And then all three classes will be equal
tl;dr please make bigger shields not get consumed by smaller ones please,the warlocks would love you
Edit::or liek an AMAZING SUGGESTION,make shield feat into a class feat so we can slot it in and out
Healing in solo is definitely overabundant. I can stay in the middle of a minor encounter in Avernus, let 10 monsters beat me without even dodging and unless I get perma-controlled I can easily outheal all damage, but killing them with BotVA, Dreadtheft and at-wills takes forever. On live I can clear a minor encounter with my 24k Soulweaver but I have to move and slip to avoid part of the damage. On preview I can stand and outheal everything but can't kill the monsters within the allowed time, no matter what I do. Just give us a bit of damage back in order not to make daily campaign stuff a pain.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
with the 'repeated blessing feat' we could extend the duration of the HOT of healing word, but astral shield doesn't do it; it doesn't count as an healing encounter?
we can use intercession every 23 second, usually it was for the tank but, with tab mechanics, we could use a more powerful heal, and even if intercession doesn't cost divinity, to get a 1500 magnitude heal with tab mechanics cost only 100 divinity and 1 sec to cast (50 divinity and 0,5 sec if you have battle prayer).
doesn't this make intercession a bit useless? 50-100 divinity is easy to recover.
astrasl shield, it's radius is small, all the player move, always, and expecially in trial if we have to cover 10 player i advise to increase the radius of astral shield and hollowed ground to at least 15-20 for astral shield and 30-35 for hollowed ground.
hollowed ground is a daily and using it only for an attack is a waste, the area is too small, we would rather use angel of life+astral shield, at least we could cancel the shield and the angel keep healinf everyone.
dev said we could attack in the time previously used to pray, but i'd rather slot healing and buffing spell (like exaltation and blessing of light), the only powers that deal damage are geas and secred flames (20 sec cooldown, 500 magnitude decrease damage dealt by 5%: sacred flame at will deal more damage in less time, and 5% debuff is useless (imo even 10% of astral shiled an hollowed ground is too little)).
geas is weak; sacred flames, as said, i'd rather keep blessing of light and soothe to have some nice economic heal.
divine glow : reduce your threat by half, this was useful (i think) when we could spamm healing, now we have to be careful with resouces is this really necessary?
it has 28.6 sec cooldown and the only useful effect is a divinity regeneration that is useful only until we adjust our healing style to the new adjustement
towering light feat : we deal more damage the less divinty we have, this could work in a hybrid heal-dps build, but we should get some useful way to do damage without using divinity, that could synergize with cycle of prayer; but we don't have any way to deal good damage.
at least blessed armaments make us more resistent and synergize with exaltation that inclrease our healing and damage, so i find towering light a bit useless.
annointed arm feat : it halves the duration and the heal, but give +3% damage, so if i'm useless as a healer i can at least increase the damage of the party, but that is the only useful buff power and it buff only 3% for 10 second every 2-3 min, in the mean time i keep being a useless healer.
if i were a useful healer then i'd rather have persistent guardian that apply a nice hot.
personally i don't like the class features, i am using the les useless rather than the more useful (or so it appear to me)
a little change i'd like to see : sun burst is uselss in party content and in solo content , can we give it the effect of cleansing light when we choose the devout and add a new encounter in place of cleansing light?
i find the healer boring since the changes of mod 16, we were helpful in challenges because we could aid the party overcome stronger enemies, now all we can do is keep the red bar full but that doesn't increase the survivability nor the enjoiment.
if i'm doing something wrong tell me please, we are healer, but end-game content need at least 1 paladin, to keep them alive, so cleric and warlock are only there to full hp while the paladin keep people alive? we are simply a spammable stone on health? because this is how i see the cleric.
i'm feeling a little depressed over this, we have become what in pre mod 16 was a mechanics (lifesteal)
--edit : some grammatical errors --
Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - The Freak Core - Xbone
Magnus - Fighter - Tank for queues - The Freak Core - Xbone
Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
let other healers do the old dungeons. that solves probem of healer shortage for rtq, redq. for sure.
> Zariel Challenge solo heal Pally by Rainer
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Sad, very sad. Heals are Epic fail. If mono heal (not important wich class Is) is viable It is bad. Please fix new challenge and ToMM to have 2 healers and 2 Tanks. Please.
we can say: cleric+warloc < paldin alone.
this is hilarious.
750k (500 base+250 shield) is more HP than what a lot of mid game tank can get and, if memory serve me right, a nice value for tomm and ic for expert player.
so next we will see 1 op healer and all dps, because we can get a gf dps with a shield to do the hard tanking, and all the other stuff can be survived.
really hilarious.
btw thanks rainer for the videos
I play as a soulweaver warlock on console and I don't have any motivation to keep playing anymore. Yes, I was expecting changes to the character! but to something good.
I see ppl saying warlock m19 is more like single target focused, the only thing I can think is "Palla can heal and shield 10 ppl in a trial at the same time and soulweaver 'kinda' heal a single target...."
Dev says: "warlock is getting shield mechanics, but it's better u guys don't use it because it will override pallas shield....and it doesn't' stack " That's the solution they are giving us. Better say "if u use, be prepared to get kicked from sessions." obviously if we get invited to this new content.
I won't' even say the 'targeting to heal' system will be a failure on consoles....
Would be nice from them to give us some refund, I have invested so much money into the game to play this end game content just to see that they don't' have any interest to make healers balanced.
Im just getting the 100k ad daily but if this wtf changes really come to the game I think I will have to move on.
Hope the Devs are still reading and taking in consideration players opinions.
Regards,