Players still abusing the system to avoid leaver penalties

benyr

Just queued for a Random epic dungeon run, after waiting the best part of half an hour i got matched and found myself in LOMM. Immediately two players teleported themselves out of the dungeon rather than take the leaver penalty, forcing other in the group to take it. (We didnt, we sat around laughing at them and refusing to abandon) - to which one of them had the temerity to call me an idiot.
I reported both players, but can i suggest that people who abuse this system have either their entire VIP suspended for a month with no refund, or at least their VIP travel signpost facility removed.

(mod removed names)

benyr

Nope I cant get the screen shot on! no worries like i said I reported them both and the Devs do have the screen shot and the chat log.

sgtpostal

lol best thing i can say is.... ya u gety that in pug grps lol...... i endedd up in cr other nite an the WHOLE GROUP but me an one other went to places like vallenhas or brynn shandar etc....... an after abt 15 min the one person that stayed ended up leavein voiding the lever pen so i left ....... but uh lil advixe.... dont name names on the forumns ull prob get told off an hand slapd by the modderaters for it if they havent done it already

kalina311

yup calling out specific names of players/ guilds in a public forum should do the trick and further your cause .
why not message their guild leaders directly ..

did the group actually have the requirements to complete the content or would it have been a waste of time anyways ..
maybe they did not have an hour to spend running the content and just wanted their random daily ads lol

hustin1

Last night we did an alliance REDQ run and we wound up in LOMM. We knew right off that we had ZERO chance of getting past Arcturia. We gave it a try anyway, mainly so that the people who had never been there could see what it was like, but we had nowhere near the dps for it even though we technically met the "requirements". To me this speaks to a discontinuity between required item level and the actual difficulty of the fight. This seems to be pretty common when a fight relies upon a dps check as its main difficulty mechanism.

benyr

kalina311 said:

yup calling out specific names of players/ guilds in a public forum should do the trick and further your cause .
why not message their guild leaders directly ..

did the group actually have the requirements to complete the content or would it have been a waste of time anyways ..
maybe they did not have an hour to spend running the content and just wanted their random daily ads lol

Yes the group certainly looked strong enough, and all three of us that were left have finished that dungeon multiple times.

I have no idea who their guild leaders are, but i'm hoping by naming and shaming them their alliance leaders may see the post and remind them what constitutes appropriate behaviour.

And maybe they didn't have an hour to spend running the content I get that, and i wouldn't be complaining if they abandoned the instance. However porting out of the instance to try and force another player to take the leaver penalty is an abuse of the system and deserves to be reported and called out.

On the brightside I did get to spend time with two very nice players, and we all enjoyed having a chat and good look around the dungeon whilst refusing to abandon or vote for an abandonment, whilst being called idiots by one of the players who had left as they ended up being trapped in the party a lot longer than the 30 min leaver penalty.

benyr

sgtpostal#4408 said:

lol best thing i can say is.... ya u gety that in pug grps lol...... i endedd up in cr other nite an the WHOLE GROUP but me an one other went to places like vallenhas or brynn shandar etc....... an after abt 15 min the one person that stayed ended up leavein voiding the lever pen so i left ....... but uh lil advixe.... dont name names on the forumns ull prob get told off an hand slapd by the modderaters for it if they havent done it already

Your probably right, but its such an easy fix for the devs - remove VIP for a month and see how many people do it after that. And yes I probably shouldn't have named them - but it was in the hope that the rest of their alliance are decent people who if they see the post would let them know that behaviour isn't to be tolerated. I know my alliance would, and I have have ended up in random queues with members from at least one of the alliances i mentioned before, and they have always seemed decent people, so i'm perhaps foolishly placing my faith in humanity!

benyr

hustin1 said:

Last night we did an alliance REDQ run and we wound up in LOMM. We knew right off that we had ZERO chance of getting past Arcturia. We gave it a try anyway, mainly so that the people who had never been there could see what it was like, but we had nowhere near the dps for it even though we technically met the "requirements". To me this speaks to a discontinuity between required item level and the actual difficulty of the fight. This seems to be pretty common when a fight relies upon a dps check as its main difficulty mechanism.

I agree completely, and i've lost count of the times i've got LOMM in in the Random's and people have quit straight away rather than attempt something they're not likely to finish. I absolutely understand that, if someone wants to take the leaver penalty that is their right. I certainly don't want to force people to run content they don't want to, its a game to play for enjoyment after all. But i do want the Devs to stop people using this well known abuse of the system.

Like I said I reported them, I've had a response. The service team have the screenshots and chat logs, I doubt i'll ever find out if any action is taken, but i think its important to do the right thing and flag these offenders (perhaps not publicly - my bad) to try and influence the devs into doing something about it.

zimxero

I'd like to see:

o leaver penalty time doubled after the first time its used in a day.
o system automatic kick of players who have not loaded in to a random within 60 seconds (just send them to the next queue up)
o ability for a team to vote to kick or leave after 5 minutes. (whats the harm in this?)

plasticbat

zimxero#8085 said:

ability for a team to vote to kick or leave after 5 minutes. (whats the harm in this?)

Allowing team decision to leave after 5 minutes is a way to workaround the random queue (which i hate). Not a perfect way to get around RQ but I love it.

greywynd

This will get moved/deleted. Naming and shaming isn't allowed on the forums.

klangeddin

Leaver's penalty, the way it's implemented, has always been an idiotic design decision.
It made Random queues far worse than before it was implemented.
It punishes people who stay and want to finish the dungeon and completely misses the mark with abusers, while also being generally ignored by genuine quitters.

They should have just designed a system to increase reward and incentive for parties that wipe or that are undergeared/unprepared instead.
In addition to a "rescue" reward for people who join an already started instance (with wipes and quitters) and manage to end it.

And on top of that, they should have designed a "score" not based on your toon's actual power, but on your account's accumulated play experience, an indicator that can tell if "player x" knows what he's doing or not, if he has ever finished the instance or not, ecc...
People see only the IL and are mislead to make assumption not knowing anything about the player behind the toon, which can make a drastic difference, heh or maybe it did before mod 16, perhaps nowadays it's different.

Although I'm not even sure why I am even bothering with the feedback right now, since I haven't been playing since the latest mod came out (and it was just to check out the new mod, I actually had stopped playing way before that, probably over 6 months now).

mentinmindmaker

I do not see why it should be possible to leave a dungeon without also leaving the party. The need to temporarily leave a dungeon seems to be to be marginal in the best case.

So my suggestion would be to remove people leaving the zone from party with the normal penalties.

Of course you can still just sit and wait at the start campfire, but that is a much worse option than like it is today where you can go hunting elsewhere.

kalina311

FYI anybody vip or not can walk right out of the portal leave the dungeon and still be in group
all these "solutions" trying to punish /adjust vip players are just lol
this has nothing to do with a vip travel sign post in the case of lomm

b4t1b4t

There really is nothing that one can do over this. This issue has been in this game from day one when they decided to do randoms. Any player vip or not can simply walk right out thru the entrance and do what ever they wish while the rest wait around to leave.
What the dev team should actually do is force a party to remain with in the dungeon but even if they did that people would stand afk at a campfire waiting for someone to take the leavers pen so they can leave.
As you can tell no matter what a dev does to fix the issue nothing will ever fix the issue.
You can call them out on the forums and to their guild leaders but lets be real so many does this that most likely your time will become wasted from messaging and posting people that does this.
All one can really do is suck it up and take the hit.
Those that act like children and stay in a party and just wait for someone to leave well are just that children and those that are adults should teach children the proper way to handle it and simply leave rather then make a fuss.
I am not stating its the right call but just stating that nothing can fix this issue and rather waste your time on trying to report post or message about it take the hit instead.
I my self have been in the same spot. Waited along time and go into a dungeon and someone becomes a child and refuses to try or leave makes every one frustrated.

benyr

Fair enough, having never tried to abuse the system i assumed you needed the VIP signpost to do it. Based on the feedback it doesn't sound like there is an easy fix to prevent people doing it, or finding alternative methods to ruin everyone else's experience.
What i would say though based on my engagement with the support team (who have been very helpful and informative) is that its really black and white to prove if a player is porting out or AFKing if its reported at the time, so a really simple fix is if a player is reported for doing it, the support team can know 100% if its a genuine report or not with no effort - simply ban that account from running randoms for 24 hours on an increasing basis for each time they do it.

greywynd

The best you can do is Report Player Behavior.

omgilovesteak

Im new to this, what do they get for leaving at the begining of the dungeon?

plasticbat

omgilovesteak#6807 said:

Im new to this, what do they get for leaving at the begining of the dungeon?

The first leaves the dungeon without completing it will not be allowed to queue again for half and hour.
You won't get anything. They just want to avoid punishment.

mystar

disabling vip with no refund for something like this is a bit harsh. i agree it's annoying when players do that but it would be better if they just reduced the time people can be kicked out of the party. I got reported to my guild master once for doing this and we just kinda laughed about it because someone in the party was disconnected and i went to do some grinding in the neverwinter siege while we waited to either connect or the time ran out so we could kick them. I log into the game to play it...not sit around waiting doing nothing. I mean if I have bank stuff to do i can do that too. It's not the player's fault for the time we have to wait to be able to kick them.

salidor

Maybe they FIRST should fix that annoying landing with TWO Healers in REDQ Instances (esp LOMM or CR ) there. And this Please *before* increasing Penalties.

hades

maybe who leave the dungeon to PE or whatever leave the party automatically +penalty

k3bab5

two healers appears in groups seems to be cause because people queue as dps (role) and then change there role mid queue without re-queuing, we had this other day on lomm run so we asked the healer what he actually queue as and was it something other than healer, we had 1 who queue as healer and one who changed role mid queue.

shugensha

The thing about telling it to the GM its that most of the times they won't give a HAMSTER more than "Thank you for this, i will take actions" and then laugh. You might get lucky tho and they may actually care, in that time you would love to have pictures to prove it. Other than that, always report and block.
If you have the really bad luck that you run again with them and they do the same, remember, you can't put names in the forum.

But for real, i undertand that anger that those lovely players makes you feel with their "Oh, we can't succed even if we try, so we will exploit this until one of you quit or kick us so we don't have to leave with the penalty for 30 min" and even more when they get angry cuz you don't let them have it their way.
I really think you and your other team mates did good not kicking them and making them wait with all of you, if they don't want to play, then they should take the bullet.

I really hope your pugs from now on are with at least "lets give it a try!" ppl.

greywynd

k3bab5 said:

two healers appears in groups seems to be cause because people queue as dps (role) and then change there role mid queue without re-queuing, we had this other day on lomm run so we asked the healer what he actually queue as and was it something other than healer, we had 1 who queue as healer and one who changed role mid queue.

If you queue as healer, you're locked in as a healer. I often queue as healer, change to DPS to go about my business until the queue pops. Once I'm brought into the instance, my role is automatically changed to what I queued as.

Same with my fighter DPS/tank roles.

lantern22

greywynd said:

k3bab5 said:

two healers appears in groups seems to be cause because people queue as dps (role) and then change there role mid queue without re-queuing, we had this other day on lomm run so we asked the healer what he actually queue as and was it something other than healer, we had 1 who queue as healer and one who changed role mid queue.

If you queue as healer, you're locked in as a healer. I often queue as healer, change to DPS to go about my business until the queue pops. Once I'm brought into the instance, my role is automatically changed to what I queued as.

Same with my fighter DPS/tank roles.

I thought this too, but I swear one time it didn't change me back (not 100% sure), so I stopped doing that

lantern22

This is the thing I hate most. People using the portal to leave a Random and letting others suffer for it.

Bascially they are saying stuff you, I'm going to HAMSTER you off until either you quit or wait 15 mins to kick me, just so I can avoid a leaver penalty.

If you want to leave that's fine - take the 30 min hit like a grown up. Sometimes I do (particularly lomm, codg or CR - anything else I can carry them through), I might not feel awesome about bailing on some noobs, but at least they don't have to take the leaver hit as well as get abandoned. that's just rubbing salt into the wound and being an *******.

When someone does that, I normally send some abuse their way and then put them on ignore. Better off without players like that on your friends list.

greywynd

lantern22 said:

I thought this too, but I swear one time it didn't change me back (not 100% sure), so I stopped doing that

I have never had it not work.

b4t1b4t

The signpost for vip is what anyone would call a easy or faster way to get from point A to point B. it is not needed what so ever for nothing.
As far as this issue gos truth be told there are many many ways I can think of that can be used to fix the issue to a degree but each one would only hurt everyone and not really solve the over all issue.
The way I look at it is like this. You simply can not force a player to do anything he or she does not wish to do and there in lies the issue.
To be more honest this game is the only game I have played with this type issue.
When i use to play wow never had a team or even anyone in a team decide to stand there and not do the dungeon.
When i use to play rift I also never got into a dungeon where a player decided to not do it.
can not say why neverwinter has this issue but can say you simply can not fix a issue like this when its not really a game issue.
It is a human issue and I say that because well if a person does not wish to do the dungeon nor leave and take the hit then they become children and as children do cause a fuss and act out.
You simply can not fix stupid. I do not state that calling anyone stupid or children just pointing out those that do this type issue act like a child and you simply can not fix that.

b4t1b4t

Oh and let me add a fun note to those that ignore people. If you ignore someone all that does is stops their text from showing up in your chat or message.
However you will still most likely see that person you ignored back in your dungeon party because ignore does not stop that from happening.
To be honest i strongly feel that ignore should stop all actions.
Text messages and even party invites no matter if thats a random queue or a actual formed party if a user is blocked they should not be able to enter with anyone that has them blocked. but ya thats not how it works.

greywynd

Okay, so let's say they implement it so that you cannot be queued with someone on your ignore list. Which of the two of you gets passed over for the run?