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Forums > Home› Collaborative Development Program (CDP)

CDP Topic: Rewards & Progression

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  • gabrieldourdengabrieldourden Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,212 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Hi all,

    Feedback overview:

    Currently there are several categories of rewards that are meaningful. I'll focus more on items as boons were well covered by @thefabricant above.

    1) RAD: many things in the game reward rough astral diamonds. Anyway, given the cap, you may choose how to farm them but in the end you get your daily share and that's it.

    2) Items that can be sold for reasonable AD on the auction. Aside from lockbox drops, these items are getting scarcer. Some artifacts keep a value (say Staff of Flowers and Arcturia's Music Box for example), enchanting stones and marks still have a bit, but the vast majority of farmable stuff cannot be sold for good values. This means that aside from Zok boxes and some random mark/enchanting stone drops in dungeons everything else is downright horrible. All of them are gated behind RNG.

    3) Equipment you want to use: this is also another big issue. As you raise the caps module by module, new equipment will be needed not to fall behind and older equipment will not be used anymore. Unfortunately new equipment has lackluster bonuses, aside from plain scores. By the way it is the same stuff across all classes.

    My proposal would be:
    - go back to unbound dungeon drops with value. Assign different drops types to different dungeons and let people farm and sell them on the auction house. Align time needed to farm with value.
    - bring back interesting set bonuses and tailor them to different classes/paths

    Feedback goal:
    - revitalize a large part of content by giving farmable and sellable rewards
    - give more space to build different characters by having access to more set bonuses

    Feedback functionality: work on loot tables and items will be needed but no new features will be required. This proposal goes against the current item philosophy of the game, but frankly speaking I've yet to talk to somebody who likes items that only offer a +X score over the old ones, especially if the +X is exactly what you need to offset the cap increase. It's like crawling towards a target that moves in front of you at the same speed.

    Risks and concerns:
    - developing work will be needed and I don't know how much firepower is available on that side
    - some set bonuses could be overpowered/broken/underperforming but usually this is well reported in the forums by players, so monitoring should not be that difficult

    This goes in the same horizontal direction @thefabricant mentioned. You could even add set-bonuses as a selectable options in the items page. Once you have collected all items from a set you gain access to the set bonus and you can choose it from the list of the available ones. At that point you could keep just +X bonuses on the items if you prefer.

    Post edited by gabrieldourden on
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  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    Feedback Overview

    Much like refinement now has increasing odds every time you fail, players should get increasing odds to get a top-tier item when opening a reward chest.

    Feedback Goal

    Increase hope and willpower for people to run and re-run dungeons/trials/skirmishes.

    Feedback Functionality

    This assumes each instance works from a loot table where the very best items are all at one end. Should a player fail to receive one of those "very best items" when opening the chest, they should receive a stacking bonus on their subsequent opens that improve the chances to get one. Once they do (even if its a "very best item" they don't want or need) the bonus resets to 0.

    Most importantly, for silly people like me - please indicate what tier of the reward is received per open so that we know to keep trying if there's something better or it we already the hit top tier reward.

    Risks & Concerns

    The bonus has to be linked to the instance or people will do things like run Master of the Hunt and hope to fail getting the top-tier a few times before running something harder to boost their odds. Also, Cryptic might not like giving people loot in general in which case the best I can hope for is getting the tier reward indication (more information is always something I like advocating for).
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    Feedback Overview

    Masterworks are easily outdated by new rewards, but I have an idea on how to keep them relevant.

    Feedback Goal

    Keep masterwork equipment up to date, regardless of the module.

    Feedback Functionality

    Taking Infernal Descent as an example - add an option to the armor/weapons aquired there where you can either "convert to refinement points" (current option) or "dismantle" (new). Dismantling gives a tradable "Avernus Ingot" or whatever you want to call it which can then be given / sold to masterwork crafters.

    Crafters can then combine said ingots into an armor upgrade kit that only works on Masterforged stuff, which they can then sell/trade. Using said upgrade kit pushes the Masterforged equipment to the Ilevel and Stat Level of Infernal Descent (slightly better I would imagine actually).

    You can even add a push your luck mechanic (ala refinement) if you want, where crafters can masterforge kits together into stronger kits (more and more chance to fail / loss of resources). But an Avernus Upgrade Kit IV is better than a Kit I, and a Kit CM (roman numerals) allows the wearer to punch the demonic ape across the map into the distant demonic siege engine - completing both BHEs at once! Ok I exaggerate, but you get the idea.

    Repeat the process per new module.

    Risks & Concerns

    This is a very high level idea, the dev team would need to work out the nuts and bolts to see if its actually feasible. I don't actually craft stuff myself so I'm really just throwing ideas out there. Also, this is pointless if Cryptic decides to go for a horizontal progression system instead of the current a vertical one.
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    On the topic of Progression: As there's been some talk of having a horizontal progression system, can we get a show of hands of who here actually wants it? This means your character gets options to be more diverse but NOT more powerful - which is the current vertical system.

    Theoretically in a horizontal progression it would be much easier from Cryptic to design new content if they didn't have to worry about players being too weak or too strong. New players (or at least, new level 80s) would also be as strong as old players (or pretty close) and not have a difficulty-wall blocking them from any content.

    On the flip side, as someone who enjoys face stomping the once difficult weekly Baphomet and hates having my power taken away by things like scaling (which I feel is really dumb design - your reward for getting stronger is... getting weaker! Congrats!), I don't think I'd actually enjoy a horizontal progression at all. Secondly, if people aren't chasing gear and/or stats, is there enough content to keep them playing?
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • seridkalsenovseridkalsenov Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 30 Arc User
    before I point out about progression in the game i would like to thanks to @cwhitesidedev#9752 for holding this discussion since this discussion can potentially attract the OG player that quit NWO b4 and content creators like Northside.

    now for main topic of this CDP, @thefabricant already pointed out majority of important stuff I just want to add something that is really important since this is the primary issue why majority of players quit the game in Module 16.


    1. Complicated boons does not mean it will confuse new player, the new boons currently full of lackluster. back b4 module 16, boons may looks complicated but they provide a choice and have benefits for players. It also provide a multiple build and make use of the Loadouts system.

    2. add more Feats in the class feats to create a class customization Feats system this is one of the big issue why majority of player quit. back in module 15, feats have a lot of complexity but all of them is beneficial, old feat system made player able to customize their class with multiple builds and loadouts that can go around 3 to 5. nowdays class build is just copy paste other build and there is no class customization.

    Pros and cons
    pros
    - adding more feats system provide a variety of class build and make the game less copy paste
    - more feats system provide player a choice to customize their class
    - majority of old feat system provide a beneficial bonus. this is an example why nwo provide the player to customize their class.
    Cons
    - going back to old feats system now its difficult because the downgrade combat system
    - there will be a lot of changes from class encounter, at-will, and daily power.
    - current combat system and dmg formula need to be adjusted or replaced.

    3. scaling, scaling got an overwhelming negative responses from tester and OG player, the reason behind this, scaling causes player to lose their hardwork progression when doing dungeons, scaling also cause majority of speed-runner of NWO decided to stop doing speed-run , to adjust this issue there is two option i can suggest

    option one : adjust the scaling by using the player item level, player with item level over 20k and doing 6500 item level will get like 10-20% status adjustment.

    option two : remove the scaling but add another way to make end game player unable to just shoot through the dungeon but follow the dungeon mechanic and bosses special attack.

    Example 1 for option 2 : boss mechanic dmg now hit depend on the % of player hitpoint as a flat dmg that ignore player iframes and dmg mitigation, boss special attack deal dmg based on player remaining Hp and if there is a CC on that attack it will ignore CC immunity and some point ignore guard and iframes.

    Example 2 : hit point cap, this might be more dangerous move but here is why i suggest this, tanks will have higher hitpoint than other class btw. by adding the hit point cap, you can adjust the creep dmg and boss dmg so end game player need to be be careful, player cannot just ignore red area anymore since you can adjust the dmg of red area to actually show its a dead zone. eg if a player have max HP cap at 250k creep can deal dmg around 10k-30k while boss around 20k-50k, boss special attack can either 1 shot or 1 hit near death, this option may looks easy but since majority of player already invested for radiant enchant, it has a big drawback.
  • josephskyrimjosephskyrim Member Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    Feedback Overview

    Progression Issue: New players can get lost by the number of campaigns available.

    Feedback Goal

    Put an optional, easy way to keep players on track.

    Feedback Functionality

    Designate a guide NPC in Protector's Enclave who is introduced early on to new players. Sgt. Knox or Minsc could fill this role but ideally it should be someone who doesn't give quests / give many quests to be less confusing.

    Whoever it is, when this NPC is asked for advice, s/he will simply check the players completed campaign lists and then suggest the oldest unfinished campaign first (unfinished in terms that the boons haven't been earned). "Our soldiers need more help in the Dread Ring," and "You should check what's happening in Barovia" and "Acquisitions Incorporated has requested your aid... again. I am so, very, profoundly sorry." are examples.

    How smart you make the NPC depends on your resources too. "I think you should head to Caer-Konig next, after you upgrade your equipment."

    Also, some random NPC text should remind people about this new NPC, even if it's unsolicited. Like, wandering NPCs suddenly spout "Hmm, I should check with [guide npc] what I should do today!"

    Risks & Concerns

    None really as it's just an info spout. It doesn't have to be used at all, but for players who have too many choices maybe having someone make the choice for them is all they really need.

    Edit: Actually, there's a much better solution which I'll put as another post - short version is: A "Campaign" Campaign Window. :P
    Post edited by josephskyrim on
    If you can't stand on a chest, it is a mimic!
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,464 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    I'm not sure if this is on-topic or not, but here goes:

    Feedback Overview

    Can no longer claim/receive earned account-wide Foundry rewards

    Feedback Goal

    Provide players with account-wide Foundry rewards again.

    Feedback Functionality

    The day the Foundry went dark, everything related to Foundry rewards was broken:

    - Titles: characters created after the Foundry went dark do not automatically receive earned Foundry titles. There is also a corner case to this: if you earned a title on one alt but did not log onto a different alt until after the Foundry went dark, that alt cannot receive the title. I can personally verify this case as I earned Foundry Stalwart literally an hour before it went dark and hadn't had the presence of mind to log onto each of my other alts so they could receive the title (I never anticipated that it would be broken).

    - Cloaks: the same thing also follows for cloaks.

    - Companions and Mounts: I haven't earned any Foundry companions or mounts so I can't speak to this, but it's worth checking.

    - Achievements: All Foundry achievements went poof when the Foundry went dark. For authors, these represent hundreds of hours of work to earn.

    Risks & Concerns

    It's concerning that the internal status of all of these things were seemingly kept separate from the rest of the rewards system in the game. This leads to other potential issues:

    - Is this information saved anywhere?

    - How much developer effort would be required to properly reinstate earned rewards?
    Post edited by hustin1 on
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  • fluffy6977fluffy6977 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    josephskyrim said:

    On the topic of Progression: As there's been some talk of having a horizontal progression system, can we get a show of hands of who here actually wants it? This means your character gets options to be more diverse but NOT more powerful - which is the current vertical system.

    Theoretically in a horizontal progression it would be much easier from Cryptic to design new content if they didn't have to worry about players being too weak or too strong. New players (or at least, new level 80s) would also be as strong as old players (or pretty close) and not have a difficulty-wall blocking them from any content.

    On the flip side, as someone who enjoys face stomping the once difficult weekly Baphomet and hates having my power taken away by things like scaling (which I feel is really dumb design - your reward for getting stronger is... getting weaker! Congrats!), I don't think I'd actually enjoy a horizontal progression at all. Secondly, if people aren't chasing gear and/or stats, is there enough content to keep them playing?

    This game is currently not in a place where horizontal progression and rewards make any sort of sense. One of the competing games does it, because a large amount of the character customization comes from gear set bonuses and you can add new and interesting set bonuses for progression. As is, NWO is not set up in a way that facilitates a completely horizonal progression system and would need to be significantly reworked for it to be viable.

    Which is not to say that there aren't areas, like boons, where horizontal progression could make sense if done right. Just that horizontal progression across the board is not feasible at this time.

    On your other point, scaling can be implemented in a way that feels more like the monsters scaling up or down to your level versus you scaling down to theirs. I've played a few games with this approach and actually found scaling to make it a much more enjoyable experience, since you didn't have to do the content in any particular order in order just to get better gear to survive the newer gear. For instance, if NWO were to implement scaling in this manner you could jump straight from Undermountain into Mod 18 without having to worry about gearing up first, then have an easier time of it once you actually were geared. This could work as a sort-of horizontal progression system, but not until scaling is overhauled.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    lassor said:

    thefabricant said:


    Whilst the M17 implementation of chase items is good, it is possible to do it better, especially in the implementation of crafted chase items which Neverwinter has never really had. Here are (in my opinion) some important rules.

    • Chase items should not be gated behind drop RNG unless they are also unbound. Going after items like Shadowstalker rings is frustrating, not fun. ToMM rings are an excellent implementation.
    • Chase items should not be rewarded from levelling content and should be adequately challenging in contrast to the reward. A bad example of a Chase item is the new pet gear, which should in my opinion have the +4/+5 variant added to the watcher bosses loot tables because currently there is no challenge in farming it, just frustration.
    • Content should not be balanced around chase items, that is not their purpose. They exist as, “the item to have” and should be difficult to obtain and good enough to justify bragging about.
    • Chase items can be gated behind crafting RNG in some cases, provided it is done well.
    I'm somewhat indifferent when it comes to items being unbound vs bound, but I do feel that our game needs more rare items in general and unbound items necessitate a much lower drop rate to make sense in the market. I don't think it's healthy to be in a situation where veteran players can acquire the ideal equipment in a module within days in some cases and then they return to the longer term AD & Refinement related grinds(which some have completed long ago). Whether the solution would be realized through unique items with extremely low drop chances, Chase versions of existing items, or some other approach is a point of discussion. I do disagree with the notion that Chase items must be correlated to difficult content and I do feel that there should be Chase opportunities for people of all skill levels. Modern MMO design to me seems to be leaning more towards solutions where the Chase is a better version of the more easily attained item, allowing a player with less time to acquire the desired item but not necessarily at the highest potency. I think that's a perfectly reasonable paradigm to maintain and we have examples of that throughout our game, however that is mostly the exception and not the rule.

    Our current reward situation also contributes to the current state where there's a 1 to 1 comparison between items and the difficulty of acquiring a desired piece of equipment is rarely considered in the equation, as most things are fairly easy to obtain as long as you have the requisite skill, time, and/or assistance. Ideally, I would like to see a game state where being BiS is virtually impossible with the goal of allowing players to engage with the game as long as they desire and always have a variety of upgrades that are possible, however minuscule those upgrades may be. This is obviously more directed at our dedicated veteran players who have been around for years and consistently get BiS quickly after every module release. I am not ignorant to the giant mountain that must be climbed to ascend to such lofty heights, I'm currently clinging to the side of the precipice as we speak.
    I agree with the idea that chase items should be much rarer than the ToMM rings and I do believe it was something I raised, as well as other people raised when ToMM first came out. The point was more about the fact that if you are farming something that drops, it should be unbound because there is no sense of progression when you are fighting against RNG. It is a binary system, you either have it (it drops) or you don't, there is no way to measure your progress and that causes frustration. An example of this is the Shadowstalker Ring, I did weeklies for this ring on 3 characters from the release of Omu until the end of M16, the only time I skipped farming this was when I took a break in M15. I did not get the ring I wanted. I did not enjoy the grind and the only pleasure I got out of this was when the ring was finally obsolete, because I never felt like I made any progress. All of the time I spent farming this item was a complete waste.

    In a system where you are dropping shards and there are say for example 1000 shards of an item it is fine for the item to be bound, because you always know how far you have progressed. Halaster's Whirlwind is a good example of the shard system.

    I also was not necessarily talking about the chase items coming from the hardest content, but rather a variety of places. For example, in the system I was proposing, there would exist items with chase crafted bonuses which would be exceptionally difficult to obtain, but the grind would be the fight against the crafting system and not a fight against content.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
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  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited February 2020

    Feedback Overview

    Opinion and feedback about rewards, character progression and items.

    Feedback Goal

    Make players feel better playing the game and adding the game more options and viability in the long term
    In general, players should be able to play whatever they want and not have a feeling of wasted time.

    Feedback Functionality

    Items:

    I defend a horizontal progression too. My approach is that all the equip should be unique for his bonus / set bonus and have tiers of stats (lets say +1 ... +5). All the items have the same amount of stats in each tier.

    Tiers of stats can be optained by "infusing" the item. Infusers can be found in dungeons (maybe bound) or crafting (unbound), masterwork being able to craft the highest ones.

    All items from dungeons should be unbound or obtainable doing X times of that dungeon. A good example is ToMM: Weapon is bound but obtainable, and equip / artifact unbound.

    This "infusers" could be generic or attached to a type of item, for example: +5 infuser for Boots. the stat tweaking should come from enchants and power or hp should be not the only option for BIS. Also, via crafting, some aditional stats could be opened.

    Boons:

    I like @thefabricant approach, boons should be like feats, potent bonuses that you only can have few of them active, and you unlock with campaigns but are situational or capable to create new builds.

    Dungeon rewards:

    Finishing a dungeon and opening the chest is really frustrating. I dont like the "reroll system" and every dungeon run should give you something relevant, not a peridot or a blue obsolete item when you killed a demigod. RAD is not enough and makes you feel like paid for a work.

    I think each boss should be like a pinnata of usefull UNBOUND items and the chest could have other bound goodies (for example tokens to buy an item if you arent lucky). So if you want to farm things you could for example do a dungeon 2-man or 3-man to get more rewards.

    Each dungeon should have his UNIQUE item that you only can get there, flavour like to the campaign or thematic (like Trobriand ring for example, or lionheart weapons, or ToMM rings), this, with a horizontal progression should make dungeons relevant over time.

    Items and equip needed to progression your character should be obtainable in dungeons, skimirsh or trials, even coal wards, bags, marks of potency or companions.

    Zen store:

    What to sell in the zen store if all the progression items are in the dungeons? First, if people is capable to farm items (drop rate should be adjusted to not flood the market), some people would farm them and others will spend money in zen to trade for AD to buy items. This worked in the past.

    Second, zen market should be services and skins or transmutes, campaign completions, vip, utilities like loadouts, retraining tokens, maybe mounts. Lots of games do this and is a very solid market

    BIS Players:

    The new system should allow players to get BIS gear in a reasonable time / farm, BUT the enchants should be very hard to max. I see enchants like a solid value for your character, something that is a true value over time. Now enchants are very devaluated because of stat inflation.

    I know lot of people will blame to me for saying this, but Players should have allways something to achieve to improve their character, and raising the levels of enchants with time is a bad idea, because it only devaluates the items you have, and create inconsistency (like receiving ranks 3-4 as rewards, or anything lower than rank 8)

    Enchants should be a considerable amount of stats, relevant to tweak the character. They shold be very hard to max with an exponential progression that makes last levels very costly to do, like the original system that you needed 4x to get next level. Not saying this should be implemented again, it should be a system that works with refinement but is very hard to reach last levels, and the enchants are not devaluated like now with new ranks every few modules.

    Stats, leaderboards:

    I would implement a stat system of dungeons, your number of succesfull runs in each dungeon, your best time, etc as @sheeho#6228 propossed. This will allways encourage players to have a goal and is easy to implement, even the oldest arcade games had this as a motivation to be the best in something... and it still works!

    The good thing is that is very easy to implement and is not attached to other changes.

    Crafting:

    IHMO crafting need to be simplified by a lot. There are lots of resources, materials, etc that only consumes developer time, player space, and overwhelm new players. There isnt a tree or something that shows a clear path to how craft each thing and is very complicated / tiered to craft the items
    Crafting should NEVER be able to craft equipment (or at least BIS equipment). Crafting should be able to craft generic CONSUMABLE items (like the proposed infusers, potions, overload enchants, jewels, etc.) so the system sustains by itself with time.

    Also crafting should be a BIG AD Sink for the game, creating a never ending cycle because items are consumables.

    Finally, the crafting or mastercrafting should not be linked to stronholds. IMHO this was a bad idea from the start, (im sure it was to avoid bot farming materials) crafting items should be obtainable in dungeons, parts of the monsters as ingredients are much more thematic and would make crafters and dungeoneers cooperate.

    Old campaigns:

    A good example of this is Dread ring. DR is the only campaign that people farms because there is a valuable reward (mark of potency rank 5). Take this example and use it in other campaigns

    Risks & Concerns

    AD and item sellers could be a problem with a market of unbound items, but thats why relevant items should be in dungeons because is more work and not bootable to get the items to sell.

    Generate desirable items and services in the ZEN store instead of player progression ones could have a high risk.

    Edit: Added more examples
    Post edited by darthpotater on
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  • hades#2194 hades
    hades#2194
         Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    Different reward/loot tables for each content
    Scaling rewards
    Hard chase rewards/loot unbound, exp it may take years for someone to get a legendary mount, this legendary mount should be BTA after equip rather than BTC
  • chnops68chnops68 Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    I am a player with end game toons (36 of them) and I like to go back to old adventure zones and que in old dungeons so as to help and meet new players. Which is a reward in it self.
    But,

    I would like to see something in the dungeon que or next to quest entry points or at map quest areas, where I could stand in waiting and be flagged as a “Mercenary For Hire/Free” and a new player could hire me for free and I would group up with them. (The game would reward me with a chest at the end for helping or points or something relevant I could work towards)

    Then I could run with new players and help them with whatever they need help with. I’ve put a lot of effort and $ into my toons. if my power is 207k, Combat advantage is 140k and most of my other stats well over cap, I should get some sort of bonus for having achieved this accomplishment no matter what dungeon I’m going in. In fact the dungeon dwellers should be saying, “oh snap... here comes so and so again!” And I should be rewarded in a way that recognizes the difference in my stats and the stats of the new player.

    I’m never bored with old content because the people I play with are new every time and yes I like to show off my end game toons, especially the first toon I made, (I’m an Xbox player btw), my Hellbringer Warlock! Which is my favorite class to play.

    Besides rAD, there’s nothing in game I really want, that I don’t already have, except to run content with people and have fun.

    I love D&D and have been playing it in different ways as far back as when it was called Chainmail. When I found Neverwinter I feel in love with it all over again and your game is the only Xbox game I play. I can’t tell you how much I like your game except to say... I really like your game!

    Anyway, I would like to some how be rewarded for helping new and less geared players reach their goals. Give me a title or fashion item or something to work towards maybe. Or better yet, reward me by unlocking a skill or power that will improve my class in end game content.

    Thank you kindly and enjoy the ride because at the destination you have to get out :)

    Elric Stormbringer
    Hellbringer Warlock
    Metallic Ancestry Dragonborn

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  • ramesh84ramesh84 Member Posts: 133 Arc User
    Hello there! Here's my 2c
    Feedback Overview
    Bind rewards to content and RNG mitigation.

    Feedback Goal
    The goal is allow players to focus on the content they prefer to play (open quests, dungeon, with special remark on PvP) without feeling "forced" to run specific contents because of better rewards.

    Feedback Functionality
    Trying to be brief:
    - We already have some examples (PvP gear, mod18 artifact set, etc) of gear specific for the content played. Having more of those "situational" gear/boon would help gear progression and allow players to focus on the latest content or the one they enjoy the most.
    - PvP solo queue should have as rewards specific PvP items, included PvP-only weapons with different bonuses to allow different strategies (ie. the good old howling weapons).
    - As already mentioned, campaign boons should provide allow different playstyles and not merely stats. To avoid impact in PvP like we had in the past, they should work for PvE only.
    - Make drops rarer, stronger and harder to achieve (and possibly unbound), mitigating the RNG for the different kind of gear at same quality by "choice packs" (for example: zok boxes providing "rare/epic/whatever companion gear choice pack" instead of a random piece directly). In addition, a "streak-breaker" for some specific items (with special remark on lockboxes) could work greatly.

    Risks & Concerns
    Having a specific gear/boons related to content or builds make mandatory the already mentioned implementation of a system allowing players to swap enchantments/runestones along with the loadout, removing the gold cost.
    Thank you for reading.
  • raiderone000raiderone000 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    krumple01 said:



    1. One idea is to convert all these unwanted items into the current mods seals. They don't need to be a lot, maybe 5 newest seals per item sacrificed.

    2. Another idea is to allow all the outdated or obsolete items to be brought up to the current mods range. So you can introduce some way of infusing power into these items which bring them up to be relevant. There can be multiple stages to this process which require a simi rare drop. Similar to how we exalted weapons from the Chult campaign, but instead of just making them upgraded once, they can be brought up to compete with current mod items.

    So any artifact weapon of the past and any armor sets from campaigns in the past can all be brought up to current stats. Something like this would actually give older outdated items have some value or worth obtaining.

    3. Also when using rerolls in reward chests, some times or actually many times I have this experience where I press the button to reroll but nothing actually changes. It makes me think for a second that I'm lagging. But after 4 more rerolls I realize nope, I wasn't lagging. I wouldn't even bring this up if it only happened to me once or twice but its pretty much every time I go into a dungeon it will happen. I honestly can't believe that the loot table is so limited that my odds of rerolling the same exact reward as previous would happen that often. I think this is either a bug, or there is some metric behind the scene where it's used to spend up rerolls without actually providing any actual "chance" at better rewards.

    1. Maybe a combination of unwanted items to create current mod seal based on location. Or new materials needed
    from specific locations aka Dread, Underdark etc to convert into mods seals or used to upgrade to more powerful version.
    Especially Artifacts! And waist/neck sets should be first. Some locations already have items that could be used
    already for new system, like Underdark (and then remove them from Boon requirements).

    3. Multiple options would be nice. Return on some refinement stones along with RP. Updating old items would be
    great but some items would probably become too powerful like Orcus set. Maybe a weighted system of cost
    based on the item being upgraded. Orcus would cost the most. Better yet updated items available as rare items.

    3. I have seen that many times. Reroll only to have no change. It's got to be the loot tables are obsolete too.
    By adding new materials upgrade system, materials would be added to loot table and based on specific
    quests/locations. Orcus materials from Never Castle. Sharandar: Malbog's, etc
    It would create more desire to play old quests besides AD.

  • sandukutupusandukutupu Member Posts: 2,285 Arc User
    Feedback Overview
    Crafting New Unique Gear From Old Gear
    Feedback Goal
    This would create a use for old gear that no longer has any appeal because of stats or functionality. I think of it as a type of salvaging the past to create a new and better tomorrow.
    Feedback Functionality
    Let's say a player likes the Thayan Book of the Dead as their primary artifact, but has obtained the newer Arcturia's Music Box. Crafting (splicing) these two items together allows the user to create a new and unique item. Where they decide which physical and mechanical characteristics to keep. Upgrading the old artifact and destroying the new to create it.
    For example; the pairing of the two items mentioned above, would result in either stats, or the physical attack being changed on the modified item. This could be applied to other items as well, depending on how far the developers are willing to take it. Leatherworking could make 12 slot bags, and then 2 bags plus other materials could turn them into a single 18 slot bag or 20 slot for the +1 quality. I realize the store sells bags, so the ingredients would have to be a bit of a chore to collect.
    Risks & Concerns
    My husband says the goal would be a database engineer's nightmare. I am not sure he fully understands what I mean, since he won't play the game long enough to find out. I believe the real concern here, from both players and developers, would be making customized items over powered. That can be controlled by the formula use to create the new item.

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  • quickfoot#7851 quickfoot
    quickfoot#7851
         Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited February 2020
    * Feedback Overview
    If the game continues to implement a vertical gear progression, then I would suggest some way to upgrade old items to have the same item level as whatever the current highest item level is.

    * Feedback Goal
    Provide a way to make old items and content relevant and desirable. There are some pretty good bonuses on gear and artifacts/sets that could be useful and help to create more variance in builds for each class, but the much lower item levels make them obsolete. The proposal would also help to keep professions relevant as long as the system is maintained, it would also put more pressure on the game developers to make new items which have different and interesting bonuses (if any).

    * Feedback Functionality
    Add profession materials to older dungeons/quests that can be used in combination with "fresh" unrefined items (for example a green Drowned Orb/Talisman) in a professions task. The results would be; on a failure, lose everything. On a normal result, you get a item/weapon with the 2nd highest item level and the same bonus as the original. On a +1 result, you get a weapon with the highest item level available in the game at that moment (lionheart atm for weaps, 1,250 for gear, etc), and the same set/bonus.

    Every time a new mod is released, the profession tasks would need to be updated to include a new material from the new dungeon/content, this keeps the vertical progression going, while still requiring mats from the older content.

    I would like to see the mats acquired from the dungeons/quests to be unbound and tradeable/sellable on the ah. This would help players of all power levels, as older dungeons would be relevant as long as the system is maintained (which is part of Risk & Concerns). I would also like to see the crafted items be sellable/tradeable.

    * Risks & Concerns
    There are a lot of old gear pieces and it may not be possible to have gear be part of the system. However the set of artifacts, artifact gear, and artifact weapons is much smaller.

    The developers would have to constantly update each profession task that upgrades these old items in every mod. But as I said in the functionality section this could be as simple as adding a new material acquired from the new content. However, this is itself a concern, as eventually the list of mats required for each task would grow to be very long. They could be consolidated into creating intermediate materials in separate tasks.


    I know this is a half-baked idea, but what I'm trying to say is that I would like see old content be more meaningful and rewarding, and older items be more viable, I think this is one way to do it.

  • sbblolsbblol Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    English is not my native language I will try and hope it will be understandable
    Feedback Overview
    Rewards & Progression need relay on Player style in the game
    Players invest in a damage bonus, player who prefer encounter powers … and other style
    The game as it look Rewards on specific style and every one look how to find it
    Feedback Goal
    Player will have Rewards & Progression base on the stayle they play the game
    Feedback Functionality
    if I user that prefer At-Will (I love to click the mouse 😊 )
    if I a helar that heal pepole in near deth (user have 1% HP ,group in combat ,helar heal him, 2 sec from heal time he get attack biger then 1% HP of the user )
    if I helar with low stat group, some of my heal will get shild , but if I in group of high DPS group I just heal
    if I tank that keep agro 95% of total combat time (not how much damage he take or…) how much hit he save from group
    if I player that alwayes revive other
    if I play random , and have low stat player and keep play and not abort
    there will few experance mechanisim (even hiden) that will reward the player on sucssful style and persistence
    reward will encourage and in connection to the style
    Risks & Concerns
    The develp this type of Rewards & Progression might be coplex but I sure that there are few quick win
    This mechansim should not be expected and need to be adaptive
    This mechansim can’t be Linear or exponential or even cap
    Make me feel like I'm doing something right(for better and for worse)

    I hope I managed to get the message across
    I really like this game and I just want it to be successful and have been here for many more years
  • redrockls3redrockls3 Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    Feedback Overview: Legacy Campaigns and non-current content progression

    Feedback Goal: To eliminate limitations placed into older campaigns that stifle progress

    Feedback Functionality: @thefabricant gave a great and thorough feedback about the campaign system but I think there is one glaring area that should be addressed for quality of life and one optional area for concern. Once content is no longer current, it is largely abandoned. I know folks don't like to repeat older content but, they may be compelled to do so with their alts or perhaps the content was never completed with their mains and they'd like to return to tiddy up their progress.

    Remove caps and time-sinks on non-current content.

    At this point, everything before Avernus would be considered non-current content. Remove weekly caps on vital currency needed to progress through the campaign. Change weekly quests into dailies and have dailies turn into repeatable quests. Also, time delayed rewards, like that in the Underdark campaign, where you have to wait 18 hours for each tick of progress, is literally intentional stifling built by design. No one is doing these campaigns unless they feel compelled to do so because they need to catch up. New players are forced into dead zones in an attempt to make meaningful progress through these campaigns and acquire boons they feel are necessary for end game purposes. This can be very frustrating, especially if the content cannot be completed solo (BHE's for a new player or poorly geared alt, for example).

    There is no reason, at this stage in the game, where a dedicated player shouldn't be able to crush through a campaign in a week or less if they devote the time to it. This, to me, is the easiest and most viable way to implement a change into the current campaign system. This will also give a new player a tremendous sense of advancement and place them squarely at current content much faster than the system in place at the moment. Imagine watching a trailer for a new mod that's getting released knowing that as a new player, you'll have to wait months by design in order to even step foot in there (unless you pay money, which is a pretty predatory tactic).

    The optional feedback to have with this, which is likely even less appealing to the dev team, is to have an account wide unlock for campaign completion/boons. The cost of which would include the player, whose marked main (character selection screen) completes tasks within a campaign but is given the option to acquire 50% more of the given requirements for each portion of the campaign to unlock that section/boon for their entire account. This will slow progress through new content but also make playing alt characters more viable in the long run. I'm sure you guys want people playing the game, not logging in, doing a couple of dailies and logging off for the day. Time in the game = money, ultimately.

    You guys need to manage ideals vs reality vs expectations. Right now there is a huge clash with the amount of time it takes to complete an old(er) campaign versus the rewards it gives you. You feel compelled to complete them for the sake of scraping up every single little boon (which are arguably next to worthless) on each toon. It's ingrained in us at this point.

    Take some of the feedback from @thefabricant and hopefully some of this, too. Once the campaign is complete, there really isn't much of a reason to return and this suggestion would mean that more people would be getting through the content quicker. But, I would argue that more players would be likely to run alts through and thereby, the zones would be less dead.

    Lastly, do not remove the campaign signets. If you go through the trouble to create a campaign signet to give to an alt, they should be able to progress through an old campaign that much quicker. Don't punish your player base.

    Risks & Concerns: Loss of revenue from players purchasing campaign completion tokens (packages) via the Zen store.
  • tangojankai#7311 tangojankai
    tangojankai#7311
         Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    Feedback Format
    Feedback Overview: Dungeon and random queue rewards need standardized rewards and a solo queue reward.

    Poorly performing characters are rife in random dungeon and trial queues, even to the point of failure. Experienced/skilled players form 5 man queue groups to avoid these poorly performing characters and complete content in a timely manner. The result is dungeon queue times for solo players go up and these poorly performing characters have an even slower pace of progress without help from experienced players.

    Example: Investing 25 minutes into Tiamat trial only to fail and gain zero rewards.

    Furthermore, disparity in rewards for each dungeon chest makes a slow slog of 30 minutes in old content with green players a poor investment when you get to the end and pull 1 blue sapphire, some old blue gear for 300 RP and a measly 4800 rough AD.

    Feedback Goal: Improve player retention with solo queue incentives and new player progression though standardized quality rewards and faster queue times for all.

    Feedback Functionality: Solo queue in any of the dungeon, skirmish, trial or leveling queues provides a once a day reward per account in addition to the current AD rewards. The rewards must be sought after by experienced players or they will continue to group queue. Consider things like bound preservation wards, an additional chest with the highest quality rewards absent tower rewards, Marks of potency(maybe bound), mount or companion drop.

    Standardized chest loot tables for all dungeons from previous modules. Create a new loot table for dungeon chest rewards with refinement, gear, mounts, companion, and account bound items tailored to max level toons. Examples: Malabog castle rewards should be same rewards as a T9 chest(no emeralds), Lair of the Mad Mage has zero refinement Stones in chest. Then all dungeon chests from content in prior mods is exactly the same and has meaningful/useful rewards consistent for any content.

    The loot table for current content will remain exclusive and follow the current/past trend of a separate loot table.

    Risks & Concerns: Solo queue rewards must be of sufficient value to bring experienced players into the solo queue.

    Zone and module specific rewards from dungeon chests will become unobtainable with this design. Example: ring of rising power in demogorgon trial. The collectors of the game or players looking for old transmutes may be looking for a method to collect these items. Simply add the zone specific dungeon rewards to their respective campaign to be bought with currency. As they are old items with little character power value a currency purchase seems amenable.
  • redrockls3redrockls3 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Feedback Overview: Remove Bind to Character

    Feedback Goal: Reduce frustrating redundancy due to mind numbing farming

    Feedback Functionality: This is one of the easiest changes you guys could make to the game to drastically improve the quality of life. Just remove Bind to Character completely from the game and replace it with Bind to Account (if you MUST have something bound). You guys have already started to introduce so many items that are Bind to Account and not Bind to Character and frankly, it's been amazing. But I don't know why you guys haven't gone all the way and just removed Bind to Character. I see no fundamental reason why it persists today.

    Risks & Concerns: Less uniqueness in the variance of gear among toons is possible. Less of a drive to continually farm content to acquire items for alt characters.
This discussion has been closed.