thefabricant said:Whilst the M17 implementation of chase items is good, it is possible to do it better, especially in the implementation of crafted chase items which Neverwinter has never really had. Here are (in my opinion) some important rules. Chase items should not be gated behind drop RNG unless they are also unbound. Going after items like Shadowstalker rings is frustrating, not fun. ToMM rings are an excellent implementation. Chase items should not be rewarded from levelling content and should be adequately challenging in contrast to the reward. A bad example of a Chase item is the new pet gear, which should in my opinion have the +4/+5 variant added to the watcher bosses loot tables because currently there is no challenge in farming it, just frustration. Content should not be balanced around chase items, that is not their purpose. They exist as, “the item to have” and should be difficult to obtain and good enough to justify bragging about. Chase items can be gated behind crafting RNG in some cases, provided it is done well.
Whilst the M17 implementation of chase items is good, it is possible to do it better, especially in the implementation of crafted chase items which Neverwinter has never really had. Here are (in my opinion) some important rules.
josephskyrim said:On the topic of Progression: As there's been some talk of having a horizontal progression system, can we get a show of hands of who here actually wants it? This means your character gets options to be more diverse but NOT more powerful - which is the current vertical system.Theoretically in a horizontal progression it would be much easier from Cryptic to design new content if they didn't have to worry about players being too weak or too strong. New players (or at least, new level 80s) would also be as strong as old players (or pretty close) and not have a difficulty-wall blocking them from any content. On the flip side, as someone who enjoys face stomping the once difficult weekly Baphomet and hates having my power taken away by things like scaling (which I feel is really dumb design - your reward for getting stronger is... getting weaker! Congrats!), I don't think I'd actually enjoy a horizontal progression at all. Secondly, if people aren't chasing gear and/or stats, is there enough content to keep them playing?
On the topic of Progression: As there's been some talk of having a horizontal progression system, can we get a show of hands of who here actually wants it? This means your character gets options to be more diverse but NOT more powerful - which is the current vertical system.Theoretically in a horizontal progression it would be much easier from Cryptic to design new content if they didn't have to worry about players being too weak or too strong. New players (or at least, new level 80s) would also be as strong as old players (or pretty close) and not have a difficulty-wall blocking them from any content. On the flip side, as someone who enjoys face stomping the once difficult weekly Baphomet and hates having my power taken away by things like scaling (which I feel is really dumb design - your reward for getting stronger is... getting weaker! Congrats!), I don't think I'd actually enjoy a horizontal progression at all. Secondly, if people aren't chasing gear and/or stats, is there enough content to keep them playing?
lassor said: thefabricant said:Whilst the M17 implementation of chase items is good, it is possible to do it better, especially in the implementation of crafted chase items which Neverwinter has never really had. Here are (in my opinion) some important rules. Chase items should not be gated behind drop RNG unless they are also unbound. Going after items like Shadowstalker rings is frustrating, not fun. ToMM rings are an excellent implementation. Chase items should not be rewarded from levelling content and should be adequately challenging in contrast to the reward. A bad example of a Chase item is the new pet gear, which should in my opinion have the +4/+5 variant added to the watcher bosses loot tables because currently there is no challenge in farming it, just frustration. Content should not be balanced around chase items, that is not their purpose. They exist as, “the item to have” and should be difficult to obtain and good enough to justify bragging about. Chase items can be gated behind crafting RNG in some cases, provided it is done well.
I'm somewhat indifferent when it comes to items being unbound vs bound, but I do feel that our game needs more rare items in general and unbound items necessitate a much lower drop rate to make sense in the market. I don't think it's healthy to be in a situation where veteran players can acquire the ideal equipment in a module within days in some cases and then they return to the longer term AD & Refinement related grinds(which some have completed long ago). Whether the solution would be realized through unique items with extremely low drop chances, Chase versions of existing items, or some other approach is a point of discussion. I do disagree with the notion that Chase items must be correlated to difficult content and I do feel that there should be Chase opportunities for people of all skill levels. Modern MMO design to me seems to be leaning more towards solutions where the Chase is a better version of the more easily attained item, allowing a player with less time to acquire the desired item but not necessarily at the highest potency. I think that's a perfectly reasonable paradigm to maintain and we have examples of that throughout our game, however that is mostly the exception and not the rule. Our current reward situation also contributes to the current state where there's a 1 to 1 comparison between items and the difficulty of acquiring a desired piece of equipment is rarely considered in the equation, as most things are fairly easy to obtain as long as you have the requisite skill, time, and/or assistance. Ideally, I would like to see a game state where being BiS is virtually impossible with the goal of allowing players to engage with the game as long as they desire and always have a variety of upgrades that are possible, however minuscule those upgrades may be. This is obviously more directed at our dedicated veteran players who have been around for years and consistently get BiS quickly after every module release. I am not ignorant to the giant mountain that must be climbed to ascend to such lofty heights, I'm currently clinging to the side of the precipice as we speak.
krumple01 said:1. One idea is to convert all these unwanted items into the current mods seals. They don't need to be a lot, maybe 5 newest seals per item sacrificed. 2. Another idea is to allow all the outdated or obsolete items to be brought up to the current mods range. So you can introduce some way of infusing power into these items which bring them up to be relevant. There can be multiple stages to this process which require a simi rare drop. Similar to how we exalted weapons from the Chult campaign, but instead of just making them upgraded once, they can be brought up to compete with current mod items. So any artifact weapon of the past and any armor sets from campaigns in the past can all be brought up to current stats. Something like this would actually give older outdated items have some value or worth obtaining. 3. Also when using rerolls in reward chests, some times or actually many times I have this experience where I press the button to reroll but nothing actually changes. It makes me think for a second that I'm lagging. But after 4 more rerolls I realize nope, I wasn't lagging. I wouldn't even bring this up if it only happened to me once or twice but its pretty much every time I go into a dungeon it will happen. I honestly can't believe that the loot table is so limited that my odds of rerolling the same exact reward as previous would happen that often. I think this is either a bug, or there is some metric behind the scene where it's used to spend up rerolls without actually providing any actual "chance" at better rewards.
1. One idea is to convert all these unwanted items into the current mods seals. They don't need to be a lot, maybe 5 newest seals per item sacrificed. 2. Another idea is to allow all the outdated or obsolete items to be brought up to the current mods range. So you can introduce some way of infusing power into these items which bring them up to be relevant. There can be multiple stages to this process which require a simi rare drop. Similar to how we exalted weapons from the Chult campaign, but instead of just making them upgraded once, they can be brought up to compete with current mod items. So any artifact weapon of the past and any armor sets from campaigns in the past can all be brought up to current stats. Something like this would actually give older outdated items have some value or worth obtaining. 3. Also when using rerolls in reward chests, some times or actually many times I have this experience where I press the button to reroll but nothing actually changes. It makes me think for a second that I'm lagging. But after 4 more rerolls I realize nope, I wasn't lagging. I wouldn't even bring this up if it only happened to me once or twice but its pretty much every time I go into a dungeon it will happen. I honestly can't believe that the loot table is so limited that my odds of rerolling the same exact reward as previous would happen that often. I think this is either a bug, or there is some metric behind the scene where it's used to spend up rerolls without actually providing any actual "chance" at better rewards.
rickcase276 said:Feedback Overview: A means to acquire in game items not available to all types of playersFeedback Goal: Making a way to where things that are only acquired in dungeons can still be acquired in game, not only through AH i.e. TOMM rings, just taking more timeFeedback Functionality: There should be a way in game for those players that cant run TOMM, due in internet issues etc, to be able to acquire the Lionheart Weapons set or even the new armors/artifact set from the Infernal Citadel. Whether it would be with a lot more seals of the fallen, or some other seal, to be able to purchase them or purchase the components to make them.Risks and Concerns: It may make less people that do run the dungeons run them, even though they would get the items sooner by running the dungeons.
Feedback Overview: A means to acquire in game items not available to all types of playersFeedback Goal: Making a way to where things that are only acquired in dungeons can still be acquired in game, not only through AH i.e. TOMM rings, just taking more timeFeedback Functionality: There should be a way in game for those players that cant run TOMM, due in internet issues etc, to be able to acquire the Lionheart Weapons set or even the new armors/artifact set from the Infernal Citadel. Whether it would be with a lot more seals of the fallen, or some other seal, to be able to purchase them or purchase the components to make them.Risks and Concerns: It may make less people that do run the dungeons run them, even though they would get the items sooner by running the dungeons.
Currently there are several categories of rewards that are meaningful. I'll focus more on items as boons were well covered by @thefabricant above.
1) RAD: many things in the game reward rough astral diamonds. Anyway, given the cap, you may choose how to farm them but in the end you get your daily share and that's it.
2) Items that can be sold for reasonable AD on the auction. Aside from lockbox drops, these items are getting scarcer. Some artifacts keep a value (say Staff of Flowers and Arcturia's Music Box for example), enchanting stones and marks still have a bit, but the vast majority of farmable stuff cannot be sold for good values. This means that aside from Zok boxes and some random mark/enchanting stone drops in dungeons everything else is downright horrible. All of them are gated behind RNG.
3) Equipment you want to use: this is also another big issue. As you raise the caps module by module, new equipment will be needed not to fall behind and older equipment will not be used anymore. Unfortunately new equipment has lackluster bonuses, aside from plain scores. By the way it is the same stuff across all classes.
My proposal would be:
- go back to unbound dungeon drops with value. Assign different drops types to different dungeons and let people farm and sell them on the auction house. Align time needed to farm with value.
- bring back interesting set bonuses and tailor them to different classes/paths
- revitalize a large part of content by giving farmable and sellable rewards
- give more space to build different characters by having access to more set bonuses
Feedback functionality: work on loot tables and items will be needed but no new features will be required. This proposal goes against the current item philosophy of the game, but frankly speaking I've yet to talk to somebody who likes items that only offer a +X score over the old ones, especially if the +X is exactly what you need to offset the cap increase. It's like crawling towards a target that moves in front of you at the same speed.
Risks and concerns:
- developing work will be needed and I don't know how much firepower is available on that side
- some set bonuses could be overpowered/broken/underperforming but usually this is well reported in the forums by players, so monitoring should not be that difficult
This goes in the same horizontal direction @thefabricant mentioned. You could even add set-bonuses as a selectable options in the items page. Once you have collected all items from a set you gain access to the set bonus and you can choose it from the list of the available ones. At that point you could keep just +X bonuses on the items if you prefer.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Progression Funnel / End Game DiversifyI'm touching content because Content, Rewards, and Player Progression are the trifecta that make up any mmo. They're directly related and you can't affect the structure of one without talking about the others.
Neverwinter is a Funnel.New players enter, have tons of options and upgrades that need to be addressed to make their character stronger. There's 13 campaigns to grind through and lots of AD that needs to be earned. As they get stronger they take on tougher content until they are grinding whatever the newest dungeon is. — However, once they've gotten the new gear they want and played the new dungeon 40+ times, their available progression is stumped. They're not going to go back and play content they've already beat. They're now near the point of the funnel and looking for the next mod. At this point any upgrades they can make are minor and extremely expensive.
The Funnel keeps your playerbase waiting for the next mod pack.
It keeps the end-dungeon queues full.
A lot of players leave after they've finished the last mod. There isn't much to do, so they go play other games until the next mod comes out. Maybe they don't come back for a long time.
The value of a campaign falls steeply about 2 months after release. Once new gear is acquired, gear from old campaigns becomes worthless. Stat increases dictate new gear for the next mod. Gear you were grinding for 4 months ago is now being turned into an appearance item.
^ This is the main structure of Neverwinter. You can argue details and sticking points, but this is the overall player flow in the game.
A few things have accelerated the Funnel:
XP is extremely easy to get in Neverwinter. It takes no time at all to get from 70-80. There are 2X events, an XP Guild boon, Enchantments, Invoking, and many other ways to boost XP.
Gear Packs — both Ravenloft and the Undermountain campaigns give players intro gear that is far better than anything in the 13 campaigns that come before.
^ The problem with these accelerants is that they nullify the rewards in 80% of the content and bring players to the tip of the Funnel very quickly.
A new player is looking at 10+ campaigns that are essentially a waste of time except for 4 boon points. Only the last 2-3 mods are important for a player looking to improve their character.
First I'm going to assume the devs want to keep the Funnel considering they've put so much effort in designing Neverwinter this way. However, I do propose widening the options for end-game gameplay so that the Funnel doesn't have such a narrow point.
Rewards General:Generally, I think Neverwinter needs more rewards that are intangible. The game is far too materialistic and when anyone says 'rewards', people immediately think "I want stuff I can sell for millions of AD."
Exclusivity and bragging rights are rewards.
Leaderboards, personal completion stats, exclusive titles, exclusive vanity pets, 1 of a kind appearance items, exclusive vanity mounts, etc, etc.
1. Leaderboards: Completion TimesWho are the players that completed TOMM in the shortest time? There should be a listing for them somewhere. These players should be famous in-game and we should be trying to beat their time. Your position on the leaderboard IS the reward.
Leaderboards could be added to any dungeon in the game. That dungeon, no matter how tired it is, immediately becomes more valuable to players. It's no longer just something to grind but something to excel at.
Pro: No new content to make. Dungeons are already in-game.
Cons: You need to make a Leader board system. Probably in the Que tab, have a button in the dungeon info area that pulls up the leaderboard table. Somehow you'd have to display up to 10 people's names for raids.
2. Scaling DungeonsThere should be at least 2 difficulty levels for every dungeon in the game. Mobs stats scaled up, boss stats scaled up, and rewards scaled up. It should also be something that's easy for your content team to do. Change the drop table, change the stat caps, save the new version. The teams spent all that time making the content, it should be usable at more than one level. Content that stays relevant at end-game widens the end of the funnel.
Pro: No new content to make. Dungeons are already in-game.
Cons: You have to make a tool so you can scale things up easily. And, content needs to be structured in such a way that it can be scalable.
3. Single Player Dungeons: Ultimate/Completion TimesThere are hundreds of mini-dungeons and zones already in Neverwinter. Scale the mob stats to end-game and call it 'Ultimate'. Scale up the rewards and add a Leaderboard. Encourage players to speed run these things. Maybe make it an event-type thing where the dungeon changes each month. As for rewards, how about an Exclusive Title for the top players on the leaderboard.
Plenty of content already in-game. If you want, string several mini-dungeons together to make it longer.
A leaderboard should be easy to make.
Cons: Honestly can't think of any.
4. MEs, but BetterMEs weren't a bad idea. The rune system is great. The problem is that there wasn't enough variation and Mod16-17 relied on them too much.
What I'd like to see:
An ME-like system where mini-dungeons that already exist in the game are reused and semi-randomized. Random mobs, semi-random bosses, different textures and environments. And you can scale the difficulty and rewards up the same way you can with runes.
This system should be constructed so that it's scalable. Mob stats and rewards can be easily adjusted each mod so it stays relevant. Go through a portal, either solo or with your friends, and do a random Expedition.
Should be easy to keep relevant once it's set up.
All the content already exists in-game.
Initial dev investment. ME's already exist, but I'm guessing they weren't designed to be updated over many mods worth of stat increases and reward adjustments.
5. PVPThe truth is your true end-game players are doing PVP. It's not the guys running TOMM 100 times a month. It's the players that want to compete against other players. You already have a leaderboard. It would be nice if there was more variety in game mode rather than just Domination. Maybe give an exclusive reward to the top player each season.
Pros: You don't need to make new content every 2 months. PVP is interesting because people make it interesting.
Cons: You need to fix broken items and skills that are obviously overpowered.
6. K-Team ChallengeA good idea, but it's stuck in Acquisition Incorporated which a lot of players hated. I suggest pulling K-Team challenge out of AI and making it a permanent part of end-game gameplay. Give it some relevant drops, and add a leaderboard for completion times.
Pros: K-Team Challenge is already made.
Cons: Can't think of any.
Those are my thoughts.
I also think there should be a branch cdp that discusses the economy and AD sinks. Those topics are also related to rewards, but cover more than I can fit into this post.
Much like refinement now has increasing odds every time you fail, players should get increasing odds to get a top-tier item when opening a reward chest.
Increase hope and willpower for people to run and re-run dungeons/trials/skirmishes.
This assumes each instance works from a loot table where the very best items are all at one end. Should a player fail to receive one of those "very best items" when opening the chest, they should receive a stacking bonus on their subsequent opens that improve the chances to get one. Once they do (even if its a "very best item" they don't want or need) the bonus resets to 0.
Most importantly, for silly people like me - please indicate what tier of the reward is received per open so that we know to keep trying if there's something better or it we already the hit top tier reward.
Risks & Concerns
The bonus has to be linked to the instance or people will do things like run Master of the Hunt and hope to fail getting the top-tier a few times before running something harder to boost their odds. Also, Cryptic might not like giving people loot in general in which case the best I can hope for is getting the tier reward indication (more information is always something I like advocating for).
Our current reward situation also contributes to the current state where there's a 1 to 1 comparison between items and the difficulty of acquiring a desired piece of equipment is rarely considered in the equation, as most things are fairly easy to obtain as long as you have the requisite skill, time, and/or assistance. Ideally, I would like to see a game state where being BiS is virtually impossible with the goal of allowing players to engage with the game as long as they desire and always have a variety of upgrades that are possible, however minuscule those upgrades may be. This is obviously more directed at our dedicated veteran players who have been around for years and consistently get BiS quickly after every module release. I am not ignorant to the giant mountain that must be climbed to ascend to such lofty heights, I'm currently clinging to the side of the precipice as we speak.
Masterworks are easily outdated by new rewards, but I have an idea on how to keep them relevant.
Keep masterwork equipment up to date, regardless of the module.
Taking Infernal Descent as an example - add an option to the armor/weapons aquired there where you can either "convert to refinement points" (current option) or "dismantle" (new). Dismantling gives a tradable "Avernus Ingot" or whatever you want to call it which can then be given / sold to masterwork crafters.
Crafters can then combine said ingots into an armor upgrade kit that only works on Masterforged stuff, which they can then sell/trade. Using said upgrade kit pushes the Masterforged equipment to the Ilevel and Stat Level of Infernal Descent (slightly better I would imagine actually).
You can even add a push your luck mechanic (ala refinement) if you want, where crafters can masterforge kits together into stronger kits (more and more chance to fail / loss of resources). But an Avernus Upgrade Kit IV is better than a Kit I, and a Kit CM (roman numerals) allows the wearer to punch the demonic ape across the map into the distant demonic siege engine - completing both BHEs at once! Ok I exaggerate, but you get the idea.
Repeat the process per new module.
Risks & Concerns
This is a very high level idea, the dev team would need to work out the nuts and bolts to see if its actually feasible. I don't actually craft stuff myself so I'm really just throwing ideas out there. Also, this is pointless if Cryptic decides to go for a horizontal progression system instead of the current a vertical one.
Theoretically in a horizontal progression it would be much easier from Cryptic to design new content if they didn't have to worry about players being too weak or too strong. New players (or at least, new level 80s) would also be as strong as old players (or pretty close) and not have a difficulty-wall blocking them from any content.
On the flip side, as someone who enjoys face stomping the once difficult weekly Baphomet and hates having my power taken away by things like scaling (which I feel is really dumb design - your reward for getting stronger is... getting weaker! Congrats!), I don't think I'd actually enjoy a horizontal progression at all. Secondly, if people aren't chasing gear and/or stats, is there enough content to keep them playing?
now for main topic of this CDP, @thefabricant already pointed out majority of important stuff I just want to add something that is really important since this is the primary issue why majority of players quit the game in Module 16.
1. Complicated boons does not mean it will confuse new player, the new boons currently full of lackluster. back b4 module 16, boons may looks complicated but they provide a choice and have benefits for players. It also provide a multiple build and make use of the Loadouts system.
2. add more Feats in the class feats to create a class customization Feats system this is one of the big issue why majority of player quit. back in module 15, feats have a lot of complexity but all of them is beneficial, old feat system made player able to customize their class with multiple builds and loadouts that can go around 3 to 5. nowdays class build is just copy paste other build and there is no class customization.
Pros and cons
- adding more feats system provide a variety of class build and make the game less copy paste
- more feats system provide player a choice to customize their class
- majority of old feat system provide a beneficial bonus. this is an example why nwo provide the player to customize their class.
- going back to old feats system now its difficult because the downgrade combat system
- there will be a lot of changes from class encounter, at-will, and daily power.
- current combat system and dmg formula need to be adjusted or replaced.
3. scaling, scaling got an overwhelming negative responses from tester and OG player, the reason behind this, scaling causes player to lose their hardwork progression when doing dungeons, scaling also cause majority of speed-runner of NWO decided to stop doing speed-run , to adjust this issue there is two option i can suggest
option one : adjust the scaling by using the player item level, player with item level over 20k and doing 6500 item level will get like 10-20% status adjustment.
option two : remove the scaling but add another way to make end game player unable to just shoot through the dungeon but follow the dungeon mechanic and bosses special attack.
Example 1 for option 2 : boss mechanic dmg now hit depend on the % of player hitpoint as a flat dmg that ignore player iframes and dmg mitigation, boss special attack deal dmg based on player remaining Hp and if there is a CC on that attack it will ignore CC immunity and some point ignore guard and iframes.
Example 2 : hit point cap, this might be more dangerous move but here is why i suggest this, tanks will have higher hitpoint than other class btw. by adding the hit point cap, you can adjust the creep dmg and boss dmg so end game player need to be be careful, player cannot just ignore red area anymore since you can adjust the dmg of red area to actually show its a dead zone. eg if a player have max HP cap at 250k creep can deal dmg around 10k-30k while boss around 20k-50k, boss special attack can either 1 shot or 1 hit near death, this option may looks easy but since majority of player already invested for radiant enchant, it has a big drawback.
Progression Issue: New players can get lost by the number of campaigns available.
Put an optional, easy way to keep players on track.
Designate a guide NPC in Protector's Enclave who is introduced early on to new players. Sgt. Knox or Minsc could fill this role but ideally it should be someone who doesn't give quests / give many quests to be less confusing.
Whoever it is, when this NPC is asked for advice, s/he will simply check the players completed campaign lists and then suggest the oldest unfinished campaign first (unfinished in terms that the boons haven't been earned). "Our soldiers need more help in the Dread Ring," and "You should check what's happening in Barovia" and "Acquisitions Incorporated has requested your aid... again. I am so, very, profoundly sorry." are examples.
How smart you make the NPC depends on your resources too. "I think you should head to Caer-Konig next, after you upgrade your equipment."
Also, some random NPC text should remind people about this new NPC, even if it's unsolicited. Like, wandering NPCs suddenly spout "Hmm, I should check with [guide npc] what I should do today!"
Risks & Concerns
None really as it's just an info spout. It doesn't have to be used at all, but for players who have too many choices maybe having someone make the choice for them is all they really need.
Edit: Actually, there's a much better solution which I'll put as another post - short version is: A "Campaign" Campaign Window. :P
Can no longer claim/receive earned account-wide Foundry rewards
Provide players with account-wide Foundry rewards again.
The day the Foundry went dark, everything related to Foundry rewards was broken:
- Titles: characters created after the Foundry went dark do not automatically receive earned Foundry titles. There is also a corner case to this: if you earned a title on one alt but did not log onto a different alt until after the Foundry went dark, that alt cannot receive the title. I can personally verify this case as I earned Foundry Stalwart literally an hour before it went dark and hadn't had the presence of mind to log onto each of my other alts so they could receive the title (I never anticipated that it would be broken).
- Cloaks: the same thing also follows for cloaks.
- Companions and Mounts: I haven't earned any Foundry companions or mounts so I can't speak to this, but it's worth checking.
- Achievements: All Foundry achievements went poof when the Foundry went dark. For authors, these represent hundreds of hours of work to earn.
Risks & Concerns
It's concerning that the internal status of all of these things were seemingly kept separate from the rest of the rewards system in the game. This leads to other potential issues:
- Is this information saved anywhere?
- How much developer effort would be required to properly reinstate earned rewards?
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Reward Quality and time spent
Reward quality has suffered immensely with the removal of Salvage. Used to be you had a useful reward in outdated gear through salvage, but the removal of salvage has made it very difficult to get any value out of purple gear, unless you can find one of the few guilds out there that doesn’t have their coffer maxed. Refinement is so readily available throughout the game it’s almost lost all value. Best reward you can hope for is a mount or companion that you either need or may sell for a couple hundred thousand AD. Otherwise I cannot think of a single reward worth the time spent earning it in the game, aside from RAD. RP in particular suffers, since you cannot transfer it to the Alts who actually need it.
Existing and New Rewards Categories
• Group (Dungeons/trials/skirmishes)
Very few unbound items, would love to see a bit more. TOMM was a step in the right direction rewards wise. Currently campaign currency chests aren’t usually worth opening.
Boons are the primary reward and are currently uninspired. The previous boon system was much better and actually held some meaningful choices.
I like that these exist, gives another way to ear rewards. Having said that I dislike that they take rewards out of queued content and having some of the chase items be gated through multiple layers of RNG is not good either. Even so, not sure I would change anything about them other than to add more variety.
PVP rewards are so bad I’m not even sure exactly what they are anymore. No reason to queue for PVP as is, not worth fixing rewards until PVP is fixed.
This was touched upon last week by myself and others, but Lockbox drops under the new system are a hot mess, and discourage key purchase – why spend AD or Zen on something that may only drop refinement?
Leveling Vs. Endgame
For the love of Neverwinter please stop messing with leveling. Neverwinter has always had one of the better leveling experiences in any MMO I’ve played. It’s fast and story driven, and you don’t have to do every single quest or zone to get to max level. Rewards are fine in leveling. The only bone I have to pick with the leveling experience is the inability to play certain pieces of group content if you over level them and the still missing 12 mods later dungeons that complete the story arcs.
If it ain’t broke, STOP “fixing” it, it’s a waste of manpower.
Rewards from Crafting
At the moment the only rewards from crafting are transmute skins, a few crates for strongholds and cheap RP to flood the market with. Masterwork occasionally offers some rewards to a select few, but it isn’t (and shouldn’t be for how few participate) a major priority and regularly gets abandoned for months at a time.
Update the Guild Coffer
Overview: Currently most drops that had a purpose are stuck behind maxed out guild coffers. The idea behind putting caps on the coffers was so that Alliances might pick up small guilds and dump into them to build them up. This hasn’t worked out; big alliances tend to not invite smaller guilds so smaller guilds end up in alliances together for the small discount.
Goal: Increase the value of many drops throughout the game.
Functionality: Uncapping coffers allows players to earn guild marks for obsolete dungeon drops, old campaign currency and with a slight tweak to the UI excess Refinement Points (not the items, the actual points). Change current campaign currency categories (Dread Ring, Sharandar, Tyrrany, Icewind Dale) to 4 new names i.e. treasures, artifacts, materials and trophies (or whatever names make more sense) and then add in an option for buy each for campaign currencies from old campaigns (not just those four, all of them, help cut down on clutter in the riches tab).
Risks and Concerns: I don’t see any that aren’t already a problem.
Eliminate Character Bound
Overview: No good reason to have anything bound to character. Only bind status should be Account, everything else should be unbound. Adds a lot more value and versatility to drops from all content.
Goal: Increase reward value from all content.
Functionality: The easiest way to implement this would be a straight replacement of anything that drops BtC to drop as BtA and eliminate BtC triggers.
Risks and Concerns: Only concern is that some things may drop in value if they can be swapped between characters, but that is not a large worry.
Rework Boon System
Overview: The new boon system essentially boils down to a few interesting choices and about 60 additional point slots. Not really a worthwhile reward for completing a campaign. Requires a complete overhaul. This is one of the rare instances I agree with Sharp (thefabricant), horizontal progression would be much better here. Under the old system there were often 3-4 stat type increase and 1-2 significant modifiers (reflect some damage, more incoming healing, etc) that really behaved more like universal Feats.
Goal: Increase the value of earning boons.
Functionality: Create several boons for each campaign that act similarly to feat choices. It is important to include at least 1 per campaign for each path (Tank, DPS, Heals) and ideally 2 for each path. However we only get to use 1 from each, or only get to use X total, creating a trade-off. Since these are the same boons regardless of class this allows for build diversity and potentially class balance.
Risks and Concerns: None that I currently see.
Overhaul Lockbox Rewards
Overview: A key spent opening a lockbox should never feel like you just got cheated.
Goal: Increase the likelihood of people like me ever bothering with keys again.
Functionality: Remove all RP items, they are too common in the game as is for there to be any value in having them in the lockboxes. Include an option to speed up the UI, the new UI is unbearably slow when opening dozens or hundreds of boxes at a time. Include more choice packs. Other rewards are fine (Mounts, companions, artifacts, refining agents, comp tokens, guild vouchers, etc) but drop rates for the chase items should be slightly increased.
Risks and concerns: Would need to monitor drop rates for value and potential market oversaturation (like what happened with Refinement).
Simplify Crafting System and add in Companion Gear
Overview: Currently crafting is clunky and unpleasant to work with. Additionally it requires you to have multiple characters gathering and refining odd materials to complete recipes. Simplify the gathering and refining stages (it should not require more than 1 discipline to create an item) and add in on par companion gear. Add themed gear recipes to each module release as was pioneered in Chult.
Goal: Add consistent value to crafting.
Functionality: Clean up the messy system and make it more user friendly, an account wide crafting material inventory for instance. Add in recipes for companion gear, updated every time companion gear is, and new module themed recipes. This companion gear should be on par with the BIS comp gear but should require 1 material that only drops from the newest dungeon/ME/Trial/Skirmish/Hunt/Whatever at a fairly low rate. The player gear should be a step up from previous crafting gear, but not as good as the current top tier. For instance, current top tier drops IL 1250, allow us to craft IL 1150 or 1200, and should also require the valuable material drop. This allows players to get the gear they want but still have to work for it, and once they have what they need sell off any further material drops, adding value to rewards across the board.
Risks and Concerns: Drop rates. Too much and it won’t be worthwhile, too little and no one will bother.
Account Wide RP
Overview: You often earn RP on the character that has no use for it, meanwhile you’re stuck on RP on another toon. Make it account wide or passable through the bank, no need for it to be character bound. Earning RP in a dungeon chest on a maxed out character does not give me the warm and fuzzies about that chest drop.
Goal: Make RP rewards more usable, and thus more rewarding.
Functionality: Add a line in the shared bank for RP deposit/Withdrawal.
Risks and Concerns: None.
Account Wide Collections with Purchases
Overview: Several of the other MMO games I play have options to reclaim things from Collections on other characters, usually for a monetary cost somewhere. I would really love to see this come to Neverwinter, it would really make rewards more worthwhile for Altoholics like me.
Goal: Add a lot of value to current drops, add an AD sink or a new Zen revenue stream.
Functionality: Make the Collections page account wide for Artifacts, Artifact Sets, Mounts, Companions, Fashion, etc. Then allow us to spend AD or Zen to unlock that item at that tier for our account. Zen cost would be slightly cheaper than AD to encourage using Zen to purchase these unlocks.
Example: I have a Legendary Bullette Pup on one of my characters. I already spent somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.75mil AD getting it up to legendary. If I were to unlock it in my collections for each character to reclaim it would cost me either 6Mil AD or 7k Zen for Legendary, or 3Mil or 3.5k Zen for epic, etc. If I only have a couple characters it would likely be much cheaper to purchase and upgrade one for each of them, however if I have many more I could spend more upfront for this. Similar prices for Legendary/Epic/etc mounts. Artifacts and fashion items would need to be cheaper, something equivalent to the purchase/upgrade cost * 1.25 or so.
Risks and Concerns: Again, droprates and AH prices would need to be monitored for price variations and unlock prices adjusted accordingly to avoid tanking the market for desirable comps, etc.
Reroll Item Bonuses
Overview: Allowing us to reroll the Item Bonuses on gear would greatly increase the desirability of new gear each mod and reintroduce the item chase.
Goal: Give us a reason to swap out old gear for new gear consistently.
Functionality: Most of the systems are already in place. Take the system for rerolling offhand bonuses and apply it to gear bonuses, increase the price and add in an alternative to purchasing with AD instead of only Cubes of Augmentation. Gear bonuses already have unique names and are more or less recycled mod to mod anyways, might as well allow us to get the bonuses we want where we want them. Not every bonus needs to be in the table, but the popular ones like +% damage for at wills, encounters, dailies, melee, ranged, etc should be included, but +5% in Undermountain should not, that way there are still some unique bonuses for various niche builds available.
Risks and Concerns: The Bonus Table will have to be easily added to for future bonuses.
Artifacts need to be upgradeable to the new levels
Overview: Tons and tons of development time went into artifacts over the years, and most are now obsolete.
Goal: Increase older artifacts to newer item levels.
Functionality: Allow us to spend some amount of RP (100k? 200K?) and 5 MoP 7's to upgrade Mythic Artifacts to the new IL.
Risks and Concerns: None, allows us to continue to improve our gear, creates a demand for MoPs and a drain for RP, and gives more options for us to use to balance our stats.
Which is not to say that there aren't areas, like boons, where horizontal progression could make sense if done right. Just that horizontal progression across the board is not feasible at this time.
On your other point, scaling can be implemented in a way that feels more like the monsters scaling up or down to your level versus you scaling down to theirs. I've played a few games with this approach and actually found scaling to make it a much more enjoyable experience, since you didn't have to do the content in any particular order in order just to get better gear to survive the newer gear. For instance, if NWO were to implement scaling in this manner you could jump straight from Undermountain into Mod 18 without having to worry about gearing up first, then have an easier time of it once you actually were geared. This could work as a sort-of horizontal progression system, but not until scaling is overhauled.
In a system where you are dropping shards and there are say for example 1000 shards of an item it is fine for the item to be bound, because you always know how far you have progressed. Halaster's Whirlwind is a good example of the shard system.
I also was not necessarily talking about the chase items coming from the hardest content, but rather a variety of places. For example, in the system I was proposing, there would exist items with chase crafted bonuses which would be exceptionally difficult to obtain, but the grind would be the fight against the crafting system and not a fight against content.
Feedback GoalThe ultimate goal of this feedback is to have rewards that are desirable and attainable for the different types of players, giving them goals and enjoyment chasing those goals.
Risks & ConcernsObviously the bottom line for any MMO is to have an income (Zen) that warrants its existence AND to have a working and stable in-game economy. Any changes need to keep both of these in mind.
(*) How do you keep people spending ZEN ?
(1) VIP – the QoL is what you WANT to spend money on.
(2) Bragging rights (cool looking stuff – mounts, companions, titles, … character changes (looks like hair, tattoos, pegleg ( 😊 ), …
(3) LootBoxes (legal frame…) – containing the bragging rights to keep or sell to others 😊
(4) Other QoL – Bank slots, Inventory (bags/slots), Workshop bagspace/slots, character slots…
(*) How do you keep people spending AD ?
Through the AH, lots of my proposals up will increase AH usage and fees will follow, also the collection fee is an AD sink, besides that… you still have a lot of current AD sinks that let you bypass grinds (tokens of patronage, companion upgrades, etc…)
It is easy to think ‘material gain/power gain’ when the word ‘reward’ is uttered, but I think it is much broader than that… That’s why I think you need to take into account the different kinds of players that populate Neverwinter or any MMO for that matter and the reasons they actually (enjoy) play(ing) the game. (These are just the ones I can think of, there may be many more I’m not aware of… also it is most likely that a lot of players fall into different, if not all of these categories, but that does not invalidate the thoughtprocess.)
So this basically boils down to different paths/rewards for different types of players. This then also makes sense with the tiered dungeon/rewards approach. (Each dungeon comes in several difficulty levels…)
- The top-end player a.k.a BiS-player :
- The content player a.k.a ‘I’m the hero of my own story’-player :
- The crafter/auctioneer player a.k.a ‘economy’-player :
- The social player a.k.a ‘I want to be part of’-player :
- The collector a.k.a the ‘hamster’-player :
These players strive to be the best of the best and will stop at nothing to get even the slightest edge for their character.
Rewards needed : Very hard challenges (like ToMM) and bragging rights to show off besting these challenges.
How ? Tiered content with Tiered reward structure (BiS items) and Cosmetic rewards (Titles, transmute items, unique skins on mounts/companions, …). Their grinds are besting the hardest content and getting the loot associated with it. (ToMM seems to be a very successful implementation of this, hats off ! I'm just going on hearsay though, I've never actually been there.)
These players care less about the actual material rewards. (There is always some importance of course, but they are not in the race for BiS.) Instead the want to experience a story and be made part of it.
Rewards needed : A good story throughout the leveling/questing. And at max-level, story driven dungeons. Content-wise there is so much good stuff in Neverwinter… but the lack of streamlining destroys the immersion (outleveling zones, campaigns and their stories run out of order, …)
How ? Streamline the leveling experience story-wise. (Some players want to rush to level 80 (alts) that’s fine… but there should be an option to experience the story at is was meant to be experienced (turn of xp boosts, …).) Also, let them experience ALL the content. Yes, let them see ToMM… As some have suggested, make an entry level story mode for all content, without the phat loot, without some of the hard mechanics and that makes sense story-wise. (Don’t let them solo Halaster Blackcloak with a rusty dagger and come out on top, but have NPC’s assist them.. Makos, Celeste, Minsc/Boo.. as you do in the campaigns sometimes.. they are part of an army..)
I know these are not exactly one and the same type of players, but both don’t really care about any of your ‘content’… any more than trying to find the angle to make a profit out of it 😊
Rewards needed : Unique items, looks, … Something in-demand, that they can corner the market with. (But that doesn’t give them the ability to keep players hostage when it comes to experiencing content..)
How ? Besides all the possibilities for appearance changes and buff items (potions, …), there could be an addition of specialized gear to run specific challenges (e.g. +5% dmg in Tier x dungeons, …) I’ve also always liked the idea of crafters having to work together, instead of being mastercrafters in everything themselves. (Same as other players don’t solo dungeons, but need to rely on others too.)
To be fair, there is probably not a single player that falls squarely into this category alone… 😊 But it is an important part of an MMO. (Or we would all be playing plain RPG’s.)
Rewards needed : Ways to be part of and fuction in a community. (Guilds, Alliances, Strongholds, Random Queues…)
How ? There is a big opportunity here still in the entire Stronghold setup ! These players could be the ones working to get on a Stronghold/guild/alliance leaderboard…
The player that wants every title, all full collections-tabs, every companion, every mount…
Rewards needed : I don’t think we need to worry here… There is plenty to collect :P
How ? Make items from the collection reclaimable from there ? (To avoid duplicating items across alts, you could make it similar to the appearance library as there could be a convert to reclaimable collection…) Collection stuff is neigh impossible if you want to keep the items now, as the inventory space to do so would be enormous.
This could even be a (small) AD sink, you pay ONCE to convert the item, but gain the luxury of being able to claim it back later. (Some conversions should be free, like for story rewards… I know I have by accident discarded some of the artifact weapons from story and would like to reclaim them, but can’t… )
Oh and on this subject : Gear appearance changes should not require AD !!! You have already put in the time to get the gear, you destroyed it to have the appearance.. and then you have to pay if you want to wear it, change it ? Talk about greedy !
I also very much like the idea of tokens/currency, but then simplified as already proposed by some before me. (1 type for the latest content and another for all the older content). As in the VIP-proposal, this offers versatility to the player and can be a bridge between categories, e.g. from content-player to BiS-player. (This store would be purely for gear… BoA. A bit as it is now, but then all in one single store with just two token categories. As already mentioned this could do away with all the zone specific currencies as well… I had two friends quit the game after a few levels because they got lost in all the currency/quests/zones…)
Closing remark :
The problem with Neverwinter though is that a lot of your character power does not come from your gear, but is sprinkled over :
Enchantments on your gear : ranks up to 15
Companions : Stats, skills, companion gear, bonding runestones, other runestones in the companion gear, all with ranks up to 15, companion rarity (up to legendary)
Boons : I’m fine with the principle of it – Grinding for content (I don’t agree with supplementing the grind with those extra book drops, some of which have the lowest drop rate ever… *cough* Dwarven Spelunking *cough*… ) But for the love of god, make the grind more fun please… tie it in to something else… some of them like SKT sucks the soul out of you as a new player.
Mounts : mount power, rarity (up to legendary), insignia’s (up to legendary)
And with the exception of boons, almost everything exclusively translates to ‘grind for AD’ and/or ‘Buy Zen’. There are no alternative paths to take…
And this system is not very transparent to a new player.
I would like to see an easily obtainable ‘base’ power, that incorporates all of the above and is attained and explained throughout your levelling experience. The rest (top percentages) are then subject to the grind. (The fact that a player knows to use an augment or not, should not have been left up to veterans/guildies to explain…) (And yes, I still feel the effect of an augment, and as a result your bonding runestones, and companion gear/runestones is way too powerful. And counterintuitive to ‘you’ being the hero in this story.. and not your bulette pup, polar bear cub or deepcrow hatchling.)
I’ve only been playing 6 months myself, and truly, without veterans taking me by the hand and explaining all these places to look… I’d still be lost. And tbh I still am sometimes, just so much complexity in the system.
Feedback OverviewOpinion and feedback about rewards, character progression and items.
Feedback GoalMake players feel better playing the game and adding the game more options and viability in the long term
In general, players should be able to play whatever they want and not have a feeling of wasted time.
Items:I defend a horizontal progression too. My approach is that all the equip should be unique for his bonus / set bonus and have tiers of stats (lets say +1 ... +5). All the items have the same amount of stats in each tier.
Tiers of stats can be optained by "infusing" the item. Infusers can be found in dungeons (maybe bound) or crafting (unbound), masterwork being able to craft the highest ones.
All items from dungeons should be unbound or obtainable doing X times of that dungeon. A good example is ToMM: Weapon is bound but obtainable, and equip / artifact unbound.
This "infusers" could be generic or attached to a type of item, for example: +5 infuser for Boots. the stat tweaking should come from enchants and power or hp should be not the only option for BIS. Also, via crafting, some aditional stats could be opened.
Boons:I like @thefabricant approach, boons should be like feats, potent bonuses that you only can have few of them active, and you unlock with campaigns but are situational or capable to create new builds.
Dungeon rewards:Finishing a dungeon and opening the chest is really frustrating. I dont like the "reroll system" and every dungeon run should give you something relevant, not a peridot or a blue obsolete item when you killed a demigod. RAD is not enough and makes you feel like paid for a work.
I think each boss should be like a pinnata of usefull UNBOUND items and the chest could have other bound goodies (for example tokens to buy an item if you arent lucky). So if you want to farm things you could for example do a dungeon 2-man or 3-man to get more rewards.
Each dungeon should have his UNIQUE item that you only can get there, flavour like to the campaign or thematic (like Trobriand ring for example, or lionheart weapons, or ToMM rings), this, with a horizontal progression should make dungeons relevant over time.
Items and equip needed to progression your character should be obtainable in dungeons, skimirsh or trials, even coal wards, bags, marks of potency or companions.
Zen store:What to sell in the zen store if all the progression items are in the dungeons? First, if people is capable to farm items (drop rate should be adjusted to not flood the market), some people would farm them and others will spend money in zen to trade for AD to buy items. This worked in the past.
Second, zen market should be services and skins or transmutes, campaign completions, vip, utilities like loadouts, retraining tokens, maybe mounts. Lots of games do this and is a very solid market
BIS Players:The new system should allow players to get BIS gear in a reasonable time / farm, BUT the enchants should be very hard to max. I see enchants like a solid value for your character, something that is a true value over time. Now enchants are very devaluated because of stat inflation.
I know lot of people will blame to me for saying this, but Players should have allways something to achieve to improve their character, and raising the levels of enchants with time is a bad idea, because it only devaluates the items you have, and create inconsistency (like receiving ranks 3-4 as rewards, or anything lower than rank 8)
Enchants should be a considerable amount of stats, relevant to tweak the character. They shold be very hard to max with an exponential progression that makes last levels very costly to do, like the original system that you needed 4x to get next level. Not saying this should be implemented again, it should be a system that works with refinement but is very hard to reach last levels, and the enchants are not devaluated like now with new ranks every few modules.
Stats, leaderboards:I would implement a stat system of dungeons, your number of succesfull runs in each dungeon, your best time, etc as @sheeho#6228 propossed. This will allways encourage players to have a goal and is easy to implement, even the oldest arcade games had this as a motivation to be the best in something... and it still works!
The good thing is that is very easy to implement and is not attached to other changes.
Crafting:IHMO crafting need to be simplified by a lot. There are lots of resources, materials, etc that only consumes developer time, player space, and overwhelm new players. There isnt a tree or something that shows a clear path to how craft each thing and is very complicated / tiered to craft the items
Crafting should NEVER be able to craft equipment (or at least BIS equipment). Crafting should be able to craft generic CONSUMABLE items (like the proposed infusers, potions, overload enchants, jewels, etc.) so the system sustains by itself with time.
Also crafting should be a BIG AD Sink for the game, creating a never ending cycle because items are consumables.
Finally, the crafting or mastercrafting should not be linked to stronholds. IMHO this was a bad idea from the start, (im sure it was to avoid bot farming materials) crafting items should be obtainable in dungeons, parts of the monsters as ingredients are much more thematic and would make crafters and dungeoneers cooperate.
Old campaigns:A good example of this is Dread ring. DR is the only campaign that people farms because there is a valuable reward (mark of potency rank 5). Take this example and use it in other campaigns
Risks & ConcernsAD and item sellers could be a problem with a market of unbound items, but thats why relevant items should be in dungeons because is more work and not bootable to get the items to sell.
Generate desirable items and services in the ZEN store instead of player progression ones could have a high risk.
Edit: Added more examples
Elemental Evil Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Hard chase rewards/loot unbound, exp it may take years for someone to get a legendary mount, this legendary mount should be BTA after equip rather than BTC
Just make everything that is bound to character , bound to Account.
Why sell us 50 character slots when there isn't 50 classes ?
We paid for these slots in the old days to farm ad on alts (30k ish per toon) send them salvage.
They are practically useless now then u changed all the classes in mod 16 so if ppl didnt like their new healer they didnt originally make or barbarian etc..
Now it's a massive cost to switch to an alt as a main who has no re rolls good gear comps etc..
BTA instead of BTC
Would be the best reward imo.
Plus specific artifacts tied to dungeons like key of stars etc.. give us something to constantly farm.
I would like to see something in the dungeon que or next to quest entry points or at map quest areas, where I could stand in waiting and be flagged as a “Mercenary For Hire/Free” and a new player could hire me for free and I would group up with them. (The game would reward me with a chest at the end for helping or points or something relevant I could work towards)
Then I could run with new players and help them with whatever they need help with. I’ve put a lot of effort and $ into my toons. if my power is 207k, Combat advantage is 140k and most of my other stats well over cap, I should get some sort of bonus for having achieved this accomplishment no matter what dungeon I’m going in. In fact the dungeon dwellers should be saying, “oh snap... here comes so and so again!” And I should be rewarded in a way that recognizes the difference in my stats and the stats of the new player.
I’m never bored with old content because the people I play with are new every time and yes I like to show off my end game toons, especially the first toon I made, (I’m an Xbox player btw), my Hellbringer Warlock! Which is my favorite class to play.
Besides rAD, there’s nothing in game I really want, that I don’t already have, except to run content with people and have fun.
I love D&D and have been playing it in different ways as far back as when it was called Chainmail. When I found Neverwinter I feel in love with it all over again and your game is the only Xbox game I play. I can’t tell you how much I like your game except to say... I really like your game!
Anyway, I would like to some how be rewarded for helping new and less geared players reach their goals. Give me a title or fashion item or something to work towards maybe. Or better yet, reward me by unlocking a skill or power that will improve my class in end game content.
Thank you kindly and enjoy the ride because at the destination you have to get out
Metallic Ancestry Dragonborn
Bind rewards to content and RNG mitigation.
The goal is allow players to focus on the content they prefer to play (open quests, dungeon, with special remark on PvP) without feeling "forced" to run specific contents because of better rewards.
Trying to be brief:
- We already have some examples (PvP gear, mod18 artifact set, etc) of gear specific for the content played. Having more of those "situational" gear/boon would help gear progression and allow players to focus on the latest content or the one they enjoy the most.
- PvP solo queue should have as rewards specific PvP items, included PvP-only weapons with different bonuses to allow different strategies (ie. the good old howling weapons).
- As already mentioned, campaign boons should provide allow different playstyles and not merely stats. To avoid impact in PvP like we had in the past, they should work for PvE only.
- Make drops rarer, stronger and harder to achieve (and possibly unbound), mitigating the RNG for the different kind of gear at same quality by "choice packs" (for example: zok boxes providing "rare/epic/whatever companion gear choice pack" instead of a random piece directly). In addition, a "streak-breaker" for some specific items (with special remark on lockboxes) could work greatly.
Risks & Concerns
Having a specific gear/boons related to content or builds make mandatory the already mentioned implementation of a system allowing players to swap enchantments/runestones along with the loadout, removing the gold cost.
Thank you for reading.
from specific locations aka Dread, Underdark etc to convert into mods seals or used to upgrade to more powerful version.
Especially Artifacts! And waist/neck sets should be first. Some locations already have items that could be used
already for new system, like Underdark (and then remove them from Boon requirements).
3. Multiple options would be nice. Return on some refinement stones along with RP. Updating old items would be
great but some items would probably become too powerful like Orcus set. Maybe a weighted system of cost
based on the item being upgraded. Orcus would cost the most. Better yet updated items available as rare items.
3. I have seen that many times. Reroll only to have no change. It's got to be the loot tables are obsolete too.
By adding new materials upgrade system, materials would be added to loot table and based on specific
quests/locations. Orcus materials from Never Castle. Sharandar: Malbog's, etc
It would create more desire to play old quests besides AD.
Crafting New Unique Gear From Old Gear
This would create a use for old gear that no longer has any appeal because of stats or functionality. I think of it as a type of salvaging the past to create a new and better tomorrow.
Let's say a player likes the Thayan Book of the Dead as their primary artifact, but has obtained the newer Arcturia's Music Box. Crafting (splicing) these two items together allows the user to create a new and unique item. Where they decide which physical and mechanical characteristics to keep. Upgrading the old artifact and destroying the new to create it.
For example; the pairing of the two items mentioned above, would result in either stats, or the physical attack being changed on the modified item. This could be applied to other items as well, depending on how far the developers are willing to take it. Leatherworking could make 12 slot bags, and then 2 bags plus other materials could turn them into a single 18 slot bag or 20 slot for the +1 quality. I realize the store sells bags, so the ingredients would have to be a bit of a chore to collect.
Risks & Concerns
My husband says the goal would be a database engineer's nightmare. I am not sure he fully understands what I mean, since he won't play the game long enough to find out. I believe the real concern here, from both players and developers, would be making customized items over powered. That can be controlled by the formula use to create the new item.
What is Player Progression?First we should discuss what player progression is NOT.
Player Progression is Not XP.XP in Neverwinter is so easy to acquire that it only matters to new players going through the leveling zones. There are also several ways to boost XP, so even when leveling players are usually leveling up much faster than the content they're grinding through.
It's also very easy to get from level 70-80. I did the Undermountain campaign in 2 days. I heard others say they did it in 1 day. My alts leveled from 70-80 just by invoking for a week. - The take away here is that it's easy to get to level 80, and that's where the real game begins.
Player Progression is Not Campaign Zones.With a few exceptions, campaign zones are a complete waste of time. They have no impact on a player improving their character other than 4 boon points. There is very little in the first 10 campaigns that actually matters. If you've already gotten your cap boons, a new campaign with 4 boon points will be worth about 1000 stat points - which is very little overall.
The percent Hunt gear from Chult and Ravenloft is quickly becoming irrelevant as stat caps keep going up. Old artifacts are mostly useless. The two things that stand out as still worth doing are Legacy campaigns from Sybella, and grinding Dread Ring Lairs for enchanting stones.
What is Player Progression?Zen/AD
Companion Upgrade Tokens
^ These are the resources that actually matter to a player trying to make their character better.
You'll notice I did not include RP. RP is generally so easy to acquire that a player doesn't need to grind for it. You can accumulate enough just with normal gameplay.
What does a Player Actually Need to Upgrade a Character?Companions:
A player needs 5 passive companions and 1 active companion. We'll assume they bought Epic companions (because that's the cheapest way to go) and they just need to upgrade them from purple to Legendary.
125 x 6 = 750 Companion Upgrade Tokens. ... Plus the cost to acquire the companions (Trade Bars for a Deep Crow, AD to buy off the AH, Zen to get from the store, whatever)
The cheapest way to get Rank 15 bondings is generally to buy Rank 13s off the AH, then upgrade them tha last 2 steps. Prices range from 650k-900k AD depending on platform.
Then upgrade from 13 to 14 is 3 Rank 6 Enchanting Stones and 2 Rank 6 Marks. The upgrade from Rank 14 to 15 needs 1 Rank 7 Mark.
Refining Stones you can get for free by running the Legacy quests from Sybella — we'll assume we were able to gind that out ... but you still need Wards for the upgrades.
The cost of Wards is entirely based on the Astral Diamond Exchange. The Exchange rate dictates what Wards cost.
^ All of this cost will then be multiplied by 3 because you need 3 Bonding Runes.
Follow the process above for refining things up.
A player needs 6 Runestones to go in their Companion Equipment.
Players need 13 Offensive/Defensive enchantments to go in their gear.
They need 5 Utility enchantments for their gear.
They need a weapon enchantment.
They need an armor enchantment.
^ What is the take away from all this? – They need a ton of Wards.
Even if they're buying enchantments, someone in the game has to refine those pieces up and that person is burninig Wards.
Assuming a player is grinding out refining stones with legacy quests, Dread Ring Lairs, and dungeon drops – they're still burning through thousands of Wards.
Where does one get mount insignia? Greens, Blues, and Purples drop randomly throughout the game. Legendary Insignia need to be 'refined' up. The process does not use wards, but you need lesser insignia to create an orange insignia.
Random drops do not allow you to get the insignia you actually want. You might get some, but you'll need to suppliment those with other sources to get your legendary insignia.
The sources are:
Zen store packs. These can drop orange insignia, and you need them for Brutality and other insignia types that do not drop in-game.
Lockboxes: can drop insignia packs.
Buy from the Auction House: depending on what you're looking for, this means someone else bought a pack from the Zen store or opened a lockbox.
The bottom line is that Mount Insignia are not something you're really grinding. They're something you're shopping for.
Other stuff would be your Artifacts, your Weapon Set, your Belt and Neck piece. - This stuff all needs to get refined the same way as your enchantments, which means more refining stones and Wards.
Armor Reienforcement Kits/Consumables:
This is the one area where you don't need to goto the Zen store to source wards or packs. Players can make kits and potions with professions. Foods and other buffs can be acquired from events and the stronghold.
Conclusion:What's the point of this long-winded essay?
What are we really talking about when we say 'player progression?'
We're mostly talking about Wards and the Zen/AD Exchange because that's the key to upgrading your stuff. That's the real bottleneck to your progression.
Which platform are you on? What's the Exchange Rate at?
Those factors define the cost of Wards, companion token packs, and mount insignia packs.
The Exchange Rate and the health of the Economy directly affect how fast or slow your player progression will be.
If the game continues to implement a vertical gear progression, then I would suggest some way to upgrade old items to have the same item level as whatever the current highest item level is.
* Feedback Goal
Provide a way to make old items and content relevant and desirable. There are some pretty good bonuses on gear and artifacts/sets that could be useful and help to create more variance in builds for each class, but the much lower item levels make them obsolete. The proposal would also help to keep professions relevant as long as the system is maintained, it would also put more pressure on the game developers to make new items which have different and interesting bonuses (if any).
* Feedback Functionality
Add profession materials to older dungeons/quests that can be used in combination with "fresh" unrefined items (for example a green Drowned Orb/Talisman) in a professions task. The results would be; on a failure, lose everything. On a normal result, you get a item/weapon with the 2nd highest item level and the same bonus as the original. On a +1 result, you get a weapon with the highest item level available in the game at that moment (lionheart atm for weaps, 1,250 for gear, etc), and the same set/bonus.
Every time a new mod is released, the profession tasks would need to be updated to include a new material from the new dungeon/content, this keeps the vertical progression going, while still requiring mats from the older content.
I would like to see the mats acquired from the dungeons/quests to be unbound and tradeable/sellable on the ah. This would help players of all power levels, as older dungeons would be relevant as long as the system is maintained (which is part of Risk & Concerns). I would also like to see the crafted items be sellable/tradeable.
* Risks & Concerns
There are a lot of old gear pieces and it may not be possible to have gear be part of the system. However the set of artifacts, artifact gear, and artifact weapons is much smaller.
The developers would have to constantly update each profession task that upgrades these old items in every mod. But as I said in the functionality section this could be as simple as adding a new material acquired from the new content. However, this is itself a concern, as eventually the list of mats required for each task would grow to be very long. They could be consolidated into creating intermediate materials in separate tasks.
I know this is a half-baked idea, but what I'm trying to say is that I would like see old content be more meaningful and rewarding, and older items be more viable, I think this is one way to do it.
Risk & Concern
Some players do have the same legendary pets/mounts on multiple toons, if they were made account wide, you could give them some sort of tokens to acquire something new for their stable at an exchange vendor to compensate.
Rewards & Progression need relay on Player style in the game
Players invest in a damage bonus, player who prefer encounter powers … and other style
The game as it look Rewards on specific style and every one look how to find it
Player will have Rewards & Progression base on the stayle they play the game
if I user that prefer At-Will (I love to click the mouse 😊 )
if I a helar that heal pepole in near deth (user have 1% HP ,group in combat ,helar heal him, 2 sec from heal time he get attack biger then 1% HP of the user )
if I helar with low stat group, some of my heal will get shild , but if I in group of high DPS group I just heal
if I tank that keep agro 95% of total combat time (not how much damage he take or…) how much hit he save from group
if I player that alwayes revive other
if I play random , and have low stat player and keep play and not abort
there will few experance mechanisim (even hiden) that will reward the player on sucssful style and persistence
reward will encourage and in connection to the style
Risks & Concerns
The develp this type of Rewards & Progression might be coplex but I sure that there are few quick win
This mechansim should not be expected and need to be adaptive
This mechansim can’t be Linear or exponential or even cap
Make me feel like I'm doing something right(for better and for worse)
I hope I managed to get the message across
I really like this game and I just want it to be successful and have been here for many more years
Feedback Overview: Legacy Campaigns and non-current content progression
Feedback Goal: To eliminate limitations placed into older campaigns that stifle progress
Feedback Functionality: @thefabricant gave a great and thorough feedback about the campaign system but I think there is one glaring area that should be addressed for quality of life and one optional area for concern. Once content is no longer current, it is largely abandoned. I know folks don't like to repeat older content but, they may be compelled to do so with their alts or perhaps the content was never completed with their mains and they'd like to return to tiddy up their progress.
Remove caps and time-sinks on non-current content.
At this point, everything before Avernus would be considered non-current content. Remove weekly caps on vital currency needed to progress through the campaign. Change weekly quests into dailies and have dailies turn into repeatable quests. Also, time delayed rewards, like that in the Underdark campaign, where you have to wait 18 hours for each tick of progress, is literally intentional stifling built by design. No one is doing these campaigns unless they feel compelled to do so because they need to catch up. New players are forced into dead zones in an attempt to make meaningful progress through these campaigns and acquire boons they feel are necessary for end game purposes. This can be very frustrating, especially if the content cannot be completed solo (BHE's for a new player or poorly geared alt, for example).
There is no reason, at this stage in the game, where a dedicated player shouldn't be able to crush through a campaign in a week or less if they devote the time to it. This, to me, is the easiest and most viable way to implement a change into the current campaign system. This will also give a new player a tremendous sense of advancement and place them squarely at current content much faster than the system in place at the moment. Imagine watching a trailer for a new mod that's getting released knowing that as a new player, you'll have to wait months by design in order to even step foot in there (unless you pay money, which is a pretty predatory tactic).
The optional feedback to have with this, which is likely even less appealing to the dev team, is to have an account wide unlock for campaign completion/boons. The cost of which would include the player, whose marked main (character selection screen) completes tasks within a campaign but is given the option to acquire 50% more of the given requirements for each portion of the campaign to unlock that section/boon for their entire account. This will slow progress through new content but also make playing alt characters more viable in the long run. I'm sure you guys want people playing the game, not logging in, doing a couple of dailies and logging off for the day. Time in the game = money, ultimately.
You guys need to manage ideals vs reality vs expectations. Right now there is a huge clash with the amount of time it takes to complete an old(er) campaign versus the rewards it gives you. You feel compelled to complete them for the sake of scraping up every single little boon (which are arguably next to worthless) on each toon. It's ingrained in us at this point.
Take some of the feedback from @thefabricant and hopefully some of this, too. Once the campaign is complete, there really isn't much of a reason to return and this suggestion would mean that more people would be getting through the content quicker. But, I would argue that more players would be likely to run alts through and thereby, the zones would be less dead.
Lastly, do not remove the campaign signets. If you go through the trouble to create a campaign signet to give to an alt, they should be able to progress through an old campaign that much quicker. Don't punish your player base.
Risks & Concerns: Loss of revenue from players purchasing campaign completion tokens (packages) via the Zen store.
Feedback Overview: Dungeon and random queue rewards need standardized rewards and a solo queue reward.
Poorly performing characters are rife in random dungeon and trial queues, even to the point of failure. Experienced/skilled players form 5 man queue groups to avoid these poorly performing characters and complete content in a timely manner. The result is dungeon queue times for solo players go up and these poorly performing characters have an even slower pace of progress without help from experienced players.
Example: Investing 25 minutes into Tiamat trial only to fail and gain zero rewards.
Furthermore, disparity in rewards for each dungeon chest makes a slow slog of 30 minutes in old content with green players a poor investment when you get to the end and pull 1 blue sapphire, some old blue gear for 300 RP and a measly 4800 rough AD.
Feedback Goal: Improve player retention with solo queue incentives and new player progression though standardized quality rewards and faster queue times for all.
Feedback Functionality: Solo queue in any of the dungeon, skirmish, trial or leveling queues provides a once a day reward per account in addition to the current AD rewards. The rewards must be sought after by experienced players or they will continue to group queue. Consider things like bound preservation wards, an additional chest with the highest quality rewards absent tower rewards, Marks of potency(maybe bound), mount or companion drop.
Standardized chest loot tables for all dungeons from previous modules. Create a new loot table for dungeon chest rewards with refinement, gear, mounts, companion, and account bound items tailored to max level toons. Examples: Malabog castle rewards should be same rewards as a T9 chest(no emeralds), Lair of the Mad Mage has zero refinement Stones in chest. Then all dungeon chests from content in prior mods is exactly the same and has meaningful/useful rewards consistent for any content.
The loot table for current content will remain exclusive and follow the current/past trend of a separate loot table.
Risks & Concerns: Solo queue rewards must be of sufficient value to bring experienced players into the solo queue.
Zone and module specific rewards from dungeon chests will become unobtainable with this design. Example: ring of rising power in demogorgon trial. The collectors of the game or players looking for old transmutes may be looking for a method to collect these items. Simply add the zone specific dungeon rewards to their respective campaign to be bought with currency. As they are old items with little character power value a currency purchase seems amenable.
Feedback Goal: Reduce frustrating redundancy due to mind numbing farming
Feedback Functionality: This is one of the easiest changes you guys could make to the game to drastically improve the quality of life. Just remove Bind to Character completely from the game and replace it with Bind to Account (if you MUST have something bound). You guys have already started to introduce so many items that are Bind to Account and not Bind to Character and frankly, it's been amazing. But I don't know why you guys haven't gone all the way and just removed Bind to Character. I see no fundamental reason why it persists today.
Risks & Concerns: Less uniqueness in the variance of gear among toons is possible. Less of a drive to continually farm content to acquire items for alt characters.
Feedback Goal: Making a way to where things that are only acquired in dungeons can still be acquired in game, not only through AH i.e. TOMM rings, just taking more time
Feedback Functionality: There should be a way in game for those players that cant run TOMM, due in internet issues etc, to be able to acquire the Lionheart Weapons set or even the new armors/artifact set from the Infernal Citadel. Whether it would be with a lot more seals of the fallen, or some other seal, to be able to purchase them or purchase the components to make them.
Risks and Concerns: It may make less people that do run the dungeons run them, even though they would get the items sooner by running the dungeons.