Only issue I can see with it is the fact that if you give the hp back from runestones, which I am not opposed to, would it basically make healers not needed again? Because not only tanks would get the HP but so would DPS, and more HP for toons most times equals less use for healers.
Let's say they throw tanks a bone here. Let's say they also let the HP get buffed by augment %. What are we really talking about here? 67k hp if you slot 6 of them? Not a huge dealbreaker for tanks but definitely would be nice.
For DPS, I don't see many DPS that would give up the power from double offense comp pieces to switch to defense slots for HP. So maybe some DPS toss in 2 in defense slots. 22k hp isn't going to be the difference between wanting a healer or not.
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dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
> @quickfoot#7851 said: > Yes please, we should all have two million hps!
It would be <20k extra HP...
That's a mosquito bite to The Took.
But 20K HP could be life-or-death to a struggling undergeared tank.
... but, cool story, bro.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Why? Aren't the tanks getting Def/Deflect/Awareness/Crit Avoid?
Yes, they do. However, they receive no benefit at all from Empowered runestones. So, as the OP pointed out, why not remove the Power from being transferred thru the Augment pets as well?
The only benefit tanks can from empowered is the power. But it is worthless if the tank has to rely on comp gear for defense stats to be ToMM viable. It means tanks have to stack a majority of their HP from mounts, and mount bonuses. And since tanks don't have any good dps gear to choose from other than rings, they still lose out on comp buffs to dps. I currently don't bother refining empowered runestones as the ad I might get from selling them isn't worth the effort for me. Another reason I won't refine the empowered runes, it seems like power takes a much bigger hit that almost anything else when I run scaled content. I think I lose 7-8k power when doing Hellpit with my 24k IL gear. I tried gearing down to 22k to see if that would reduce the effect of scaling and, I still lost 7-8k power. From a build that was 10k power lower to start with...
I've given up on getting into ToMM with my tankadin(for now) as when he's geared for it, his offensive stats are just trash. I'm really close to having all his stats in near perfect balance, but it would be much easier(and maybe cheaper) to achieve if I could get even a few thousand hp from empowered runestones. If I didn't have to have 3-4 loadouts to make the pally more playable I'd be happier. As it is now I have too much gear and enchants that I have to constantly swap out based on what content he's running. I find that unacceptable.
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
1
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
1
dread4moorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,154Arc User
Why? Aren't the tanks getting Def/Deflect/Awareness/Crit Avoid?
Yes, they do. However, they receive no benefit at all from Empowered runestones. So, as the OP pointed out, why not remove the Power from being transferred thru the Augment pets as well?
The only benefit tanks can from empowered is the power. But it is worthless if the tank has to rely on comp gear for defense stats to be ToMM viable. It means tanks have to stack a majority of their HP from mounts, and mount bonuses. And since tanks don't have any good dps gear to choose from other than rings, they still lose out on comp buffs to dps.
This right here. Tanking in NW is already a pretty thankless job. Tanks get no glory (DPS gets that) or attention (unless you lose aggro). Then DPS b_tch and moan about long Q times and wonder why it is hard to find a tank.
Make it easier for middle-to-low-geared tanks to stay alive and they will Q more often. OP is not asking for anything game-breaking. Just let tanks get equal value from the empowered as DPS does.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
I would abandon the thought about bonding transferring HP - that is too much of percentage, too much of base HP value in non-augment. But anyway, one thing is for sure. The new instances in the new mod will be probably almost clear of any non-augment companions - as the sufficiency of stats benefits the player the most. So, a complete rework of companion mechanism is in order, because otherwise we are reaching the point when 99 % of companions becomes not just the worse option, but a visibly detrimental choice. And if the rework comes, I would really like to see augments to start transferring HP instead of all the other stats. That would spread the biodiversity of companion ecosystem the most.
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
Insert 600k hp from trob comp and bonding runestone only no empowered. Bondings don't transfer hp from non augments as the tool tip would have you believe. It states they transfer a portion of your pets stats. HP are a stat, but HP don't transfer with bondings and non augments. Something else is broken.
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
I would abandon the thought about bonding transferring HP - that is too much of percentage, too much of base HP value in non-augment. But anyway, one thing is for sure. The new instances in the new mod will be probably almost clear of any non-augment companions - as the sufficiency of stats benefits the player the most. So, a complete rework of companion mechanism is in order, because otherwise we are reaching the point when 99 % of companions becomes not just the worse option, but a visibly detrimental choice. And if the rework comes, I would really like to see augments to start transferring HP instead of all the other stats. That would spread the biodiversity of companion ecosystem the most.
Augments should transfer HP from empowered, or empowered with any comp should transfer HP to make all comps viable.
I am against any nerfing of anything, buff up the stuff that isn't ideal...
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
Insert 600k hp from trob comp and bonding runestone only no empowered. Bondings don't transfer hp from non augments as the tool tip would have you believe. It states they transfer a portion of your pets stats. HP are a stat, but HP don't transfer with bondings and non augments. Something else is broken.
I know bonding does not transfer HP (and certain other stat) and I explained many posts ago. Hence, I was not the one who "believe" it. HP is a stat, XP bonus is a stat, +N% damage is a stat, +N% healing is a stat, .... None of these are transferred.
HP is not transferred from both augment and non-augment except augment transfer its base HP (which is a specific feature of augment).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
I am missing something. How do you get 300K+ HP from 3 rank 11 bonding?
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP. 3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%. It gives 47520 HP. Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
Insert 600k hp from trob comp and bonding runestone only no empowered. Bondings don't transfer hp from non augments as the tool tip would have you believe. It states they transfer a portion of your pets stats. HP are a stat, but HP don't transfer with bondings and non augments. Something else is broken.
I know bonding does not transfer HP (and certain other stat) and I explained many posts ago. Hence, I was not the one who "believe" it. HP is a stat, XP bonus is a stat, +N% damage is a stat, +N% healing is a stat, .... None of these are transferred.
HP is not transferred from both augment and non-augment except augment transfer its base HP.
And this is why I say that bonding runestones are falsely advertised. The tool tip for them does not specify that only certain stats will be transferred. Only that a a "portion of your pets stats" will be transferred. To me that means x% of every stat the pet has including but not limited to power, HP, arpen, etc...
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Except companions don't have a Hit Point stat. Only the character does.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I can clearly see that the trob comp has over 600k hp at epic. How is that not a a hp stat? Or is it not coded to be a "stat" in the programming? I would call that shenanigans if that is the case...
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Look at the comp's stats tab. "Health" stat. Not "Hit Points".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Semantics, and just a way for them to get around not granting HP thru bonding reunstones unless using an augment with HP transfer.
1
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,150Arc User
Not semantics in programming.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
When they elect to use "health" to determine how long the pets live, but "hit points" to determine how long a character lives, its semantics. But whatever, health or hit points, the bondings should be transfer a portion of health, or hit points to the owner, as the tool tip does not specify that it doesn't transfer health. I would say health is a stat like hit points but if they wanna play those kinds of games with wording, whatever.
My point, is that unless you can dive deep into what the devs intent was when they programmed it, you are left assuming that health, hit points, should be a stat that transfers with all the other stats that transfer to the owner with bondings.
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arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
The wording is there because coding is VERY specific. They purposely do NOT want companion health to transfer to players, but want the augment HP base stats to transfer. If HP was used in both cases then all would transfer, or if Health on both then none would transfer. The wording difference has a very specific use and isn't semantic.
I see no reason why they couldn't let the hit points from health transfer as well. For augments its only 25k, but when use a non augment it is significantly more. This would be huge for tanks, or even some of the squishier classes, and it even go a long way towards making non augment comps more viable, other than Xuna.
0
plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,404Arc User
I see no reason why they couldn't let the hit points from health transfer as well. For augments its only 25k, but when use a non augment it is significantly more. This would be huge for tanks, or even some of the squishier classes, and it even go a long way towards making non augment comps more viable, other than Xuna.
If non-augment Health can be transferred through bonding, you don't need tank and/or heal anymore. A dps with some simple bonding (say 3 r11 bonding) can have 800K HP.
As I said above:
my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Some calculation insert: Why would you use an augment with Bonus HP, it is BIS for no one for a simple reason: Power = 1000*2.1(Bondings)+1000(Augment) HP = 1000(Augment)
It is worst you can pick. Mostly it's a conversion Rate of 1(off./de. Stat):4(HP) That being said. It's garbage. To be comparable the HP bonus of an augment Companion has to raise to 3100*4=12400
If not you are better of with the Power pick. Tanks too.
Comments
For DPS, I don't see many DPS that would give up the power from double offense comp pieces to switch to defense slots for HP. So maybe some DPS toss in 2 in defense slots. 22k hp isn't going to be the difference between wanting a healer or not.
> Yes please, we should all have two million hps!
It would be <20k extra HP...
That's a mosquito bite to The Took.
But 20K HP could be life-or-death to a struggling undergeared tank.
... but, cool story, bro.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
- Tankready Freedom Fighter For Tanks Across NW -
- GM of Best In Class Alliance / Guild
I've given up on getting into ToMM with my tankadin(for now) as when he's geared for it, his offensive stats are just trash. I'm really close to having all his stats in near perfect balance, but it would be much easier(and maybe cheaper) to achieve if I could get even a few thousand hp from empowered runestones. If I didn't have to have 3-4 loadouts to make the pally more playable I'd be happier. As it is now I have too much gear and enchants that I have to constantly swap out based on what content he's running. I find that unacceptable.
Either they need to give us hp from non-augments, or they need to give us hp with empowered with augments that share hp. In theory with bonding runestones you should get something like 300k+ hp from a trob comp with 3 rank 11 bondings...
6 rank 15 empowered runestone gives 5280 HP x 6 = 31680 HP.
3 rank 11 bonding gives 150%.
It gives 47520 HP.
Even for adding the extra 100% from augment, it is still only +79.2K HP.
If you are talking about getting HP from non-augment through bonding, well, my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
Tanking in NW is already a pretty thankless job.
Tanks get no glory (DPS gets that) or attention (unless you lose aggro).
Then DPS b_tch and moan about long Q times and wonder why it is hard to find a tank.
Make it easier for middle-to-low-geared tanks to stay alive and they will Q more often.
OP is not asking for anything game-breaking.
Just let tanks get equal value from the empowered as DPS does.
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
But anyway, one thing is for sure. The new instances in the new mod will be probably almost clear of any non-augment companions - as the sufficiency of stats benefits the player the most. So, a complete rework of companion mechanism is in order, because otherwise we are reaching the point when 99 % of companions becomes not just the worse option, but a visibly detrimental choice.
And if the rework comes, I would really like to see augments to start transferring HP instead of all the other stats. That would spread the biodiversity of companion ecosystem the most.
I am against any nerfing of anything, buff up the stuff that isn't ideal...
Hence, I was not the one who "believe" it.
HP is a stat, XP bonus is a stat, +N% damage is a stat, +N% healing is a stat, ....
None of these are transferred.
HP is not transferred from both augment and non-augment except augment transfer its base HP (which is a specific feature of augment).
My point, is that unless you can dive deep into what the devs intent was when they programmed it, you are left assuming that health, hit points, should be a stat that transfers with all the other stats that transfer to the owner with bondings.
As I said above:
my legendary tiger have 373K HP. If bonding is allowed, for 150%, it would be +560K HP without any empowered runestone. If that is allowed, you don't need tank because DPS can have 800K HP already (for just using 3 rank 11 bonding).
Why would you use an augment with Bonus HP, it is BIS for no one for a simple reason:
Power = 1000*2.1(Bondings)+1000(Augment)
HP = 1000(Augment)
It is worst you can pick. Mostly it's a conversion Rate of 1(off./de. Stat):4(HP) That being said. It's garbage.
To be comparable the HP bonus of an augment Companion has to raise to 3100*4=12400
If not you are better of with the Power pick. Tanks too.