U-TURN -- How to Monetize the Foundry!

aandrethegiant

The Foundry died the day it was born.

It was never given the creative support it required, and Cryptic's refusal to continue to update it in the early days ensured it's eventual demise.

The official REASON was "lack of resources" -- staff, time and money. Basically, they couldn't envision a way to monetize it.

Let's try and put our DEVELOPER caps on mates!

For those that would be INTERESTED to see the Foundry come back, either on a new server or as an integral part of the game, l ask you the Neverwinter community to try to envision specific, concrete ways to monetize the foundry. Think big and think small.

There is no other game feature in my opinion that is responsible for more people coming to Neverwinter, and no other LOST feature that is responsible for people LEAVING Neverwinter.

Please do not respond that you have no interest in the Foundry, that's not the goal of this thread.

THINKTANK: My GOAL is to GATHER IDEAS on how to make it PROFITABLE & FEASIBLE for Cryptic to bring it back, but in a format that excites the NW playerbase, or brings people BACK to Neverwinter (especially the Dreamweavers, the custom content authors/creators that were excited about Neverwinter again), or brings in NEW BLOOD, who would like to create or play custom content.


For the CPAs & Lawyers & Beancounters in shiny suits that PW & Cryptic gainfully employs:

What's the bottom line -- WHY BOTHER?? 2 big reasons:

1. NEW BLOOD.
2. PLAYER RETENTION through REPLAY-ABILITY.

melotai

The Foundry (It’s All about the Money)

Make it into a regular campaign area like the underdark, icewind dale and chult

Requirements to open up campaign area: 1 character on account with 20 active boons. This ensures that the player has played the game and earned the boons or spent the money to get the boons. Either way it’s good for business.

Have quests that require players to create their own content that satisfies the quest lines objective. (essentially the player is creating their own solo mission and then play testing it with a regular quest line check list that must be successfully completed to finish the quest)

Quest lines start at booths for beginner (basic), intermediate (skilled), expert, master and grand master. For the creation process have merchants that sell additional items and unlocks that can be used in the creation process.

The basic, intermediate and expert quest lines should all provide a tutorial.

The basic should provide a one-time tutorial that literally explains everything about what the foundry is all about and how it works. The intermediate and expert ones are just continuations of the first one and introduces the players to the new command lines and what not that can now be used. Once they have completed each part of the tutorial then it becomes an account wide information thing that can be found in each character’s journal.

The first two only allow for the creation of private quest lines that only the player and whoever is invited into his group can do.

Private quest lines do not require any sort of approval by the company. However, For ALL private quests cryptic or whoever needs to provide a disclaimer that absolves them of any wrong doing as it is essentially player created content that they have no control over. Since it is not company approved content this disclaimer should appear every single time a player attempts to do someone else’s content in a private queue.

Also, for any private quest line only minor RP items/treasure can be gained by doing this.

Unlocking the expert quest line allows players to post certain company approved quest types on their server. (no disclaimer needed here as it is company approved content)

Unlocking the master* quest line just unlocks various new items and treasure for purchase that can be used in the creation process.

Unlocking the grand master** unlocks everything and allows players an additional option to post certain company approved quest types on all servers. (to be blunt about it, the company testers have determined that it is good enough to make the company they work for more of the real money.)

*Unlocking the master one should require 5 successful approved quests from the expert line.
**Unlocking the grand master one should require 3 successful approved quests from the master line or a 20k purchase from the ZEN store.

In terms of reviews for approved content that should be allowed to be done in game but the review/post should only appear in the appropriate forum for the foundry.

The rewards for approved content should probably be done as it was before if it worked. If not, then someone should make up something as I think players that create good playable content for the game should be rewarded with ZEN or something useful for their account.

Any approved quest line will appear on the foundry area map and space is limited to 20 expert/master ones and 10 grand master ones.

Newly approved quest lines will only appear on the server for 2 weeks guaranteed and then it must prove itself each week by the number of “visitors” it gets and how many actually play through and complete the quest. Basically, as long as a certain percentage of the community is still playing and completing the content then it should stay.

Once it goes below that percentage amount it should get moved to the foundry tab where only the top 100 quest lines are available each week and players can search for whatever they want to play. Players requesting content that has been discontinued within the last three months will get a message stating that fact. Content that has been discontinued for longer periods will get a message stating that such content does not exist.

The top 100 list operates the same as the map one only the percentage of players needed to keep it there is less stringent. Previously approved content may be resubmitted as new content if the owner of said content can get enough votes/player interest in the forum for revival of quest on the server.

As a way to keep new content coming in any quest that remains on the map for 22+ weeks should be moved to another tab that contains another top 100 list. This list is only populated by the top 100 newest content and does not require weekly checks to determine if it is going to stay or not. It just stays until it gets booted by its age from being removed from the map area. For quests from this list, after one year from its removal date it may be resubmitted again as new content.

The Approval process:
If it is done this way then the approval process requires the developers or some other employee type(s) of the company to play each quest submitted for approval.

The employee part of the testing process has to be done first and whatever makes it by them is then play tested by the players. For failed attempts this process should require them to list their reason(s) for why it did not make it so that the foundry player can make whatever changes need to be made to make it acceptable.

The players that have agreed to do the testing are then allowed to play said content so that they may cast their vote on whether or not they consider the content acceptable or not. Play testing is short and lasts only 1 week (maintenance to maintenance)
This process also has to include a minimum # of votes needed for approval as well.

The players voting choices are limited to just three options:
Acceptable, Unacceptable or Undecided

Once a player has voted yea or nay then voting for that quest is ended for them and they will not receive the option to vote if they decide to play through the quest again. Players that cast an undecided vote will still receive the option to vote until they make a different choice concerning the quest. However, an Undecided vote is considered a no vote when the time limit ends to cast your vote for approval.

Also, regardless off what they choose their will be a link present that will direct them to the appropriate forum if they have a desire to leave a written review.

If it fails in this area then the creator of said content gets an in-game e-mail that indicates how the voting went. If it is approved then they will see their quest on the approved side of the list.

What players see in game:
Presuming that the foundry tab is done the same way as the boon list one then you have two blocks for the individual top 100s and one block for the play testing area.

The play testing area is sort of an unlock thing and first-time users are required to read a disclaimer notice of some kind and choose the option that they have read and know what they are doing.

This area contains two lists:
One is for quests that have been approved for play testing and these are what can be selected by players for testing. The other list is just a list of what quests have been approved for the map area and is sorted by the date and time it was approved so that players know what will be coming up next.

aandrethegiant

Awesome mockup!

Now certainly someone else has some ideas .......

methuselas

They need to follow the example we were doing at BioWare, back when I worked on Neverwinter Nights, before Atari shut us down for not getting their cut of the pie.

Premium Modules.

You want to be a foundry author. You pay money. You want to PLAY a foundry module, you pay for it.

Simple as that.

[EDIT] - Of course, knowing Cryptic they'd charge some exorbitant pricing for Authorship and module payments.... *rolls eyes*

hustin1

A simple way to monetize the Foundry is for the following:

- Devs feature Foundry quests that meet certain standards.
- Devs place an extra chest in featured quests that contain items unique to Foundry quests. Said chest can only be opened by either a craftable campaign key or with a Legendary Dragon Key (Zen item)
- Special items could be the following:
- Unique weapons, armor, companions, mounts, transmutes, or enchantments
- Keys that unlock extras in existing content (extra campaign quests, extra areas in dungeons containing unique bosses and loot, expanded areas in existing maps, the possibilities are enormous). All of which can come from the Foundry. They just need vetting by the devs first.

The monetizing driver is mainly the keys for the extra chest, though for refinable items like enchantments it also potentially allows wards to enter the mix. Ultimately, though, the Foundry, if given proper *attention*, can greatly contribute to the game's overall richness. There's no substitute for bringing in players with a deep, rich experience.

Question regarding the title of this thread: are the devs actually making a U-turn with respect to the Foundry?

jimmypdt

hustin1 said:

A simple way to monetize the Foundry is for the following:

- Devs feature Foundry quests that meet certain standards.
- Devs place an extra chest in featured quests that contain items unique to Foundry quests. Said chest can only be opened by either a craftable campaign key or with a Legendary Dragon Key (Zen item)
- Special items could be the following:
- Unique weapons, armor, companions, mounts, transmutes, or enchantments
- Keys that unlock extras in existing content (extra campaign quests, extra areas in dungeons containing unique bosses and loot, expanded areas in existing maps, the possibilities are enormous). All of which can come from the Foundry. They just need vetting by the devs first.

The monetizing driver is mainly the keys for the extra chest, though for refinable items like enchantments it also potentially allows wards to enter the mix. Ultimately, though, the Foundry, if given proper *attention*, can greatly contribute to the game's overall richness. There's no substitute for bringing in players with a deep, rich experience.

Question regarding the title of this thread: are the devs actually making a U-turn with respect to the Foundry?

Well, Chris sort of said he was going to look into the foundry during their December stream. So.... maybe....Hopefully... with cookies:)

bpstuart

aandrethegiant said:

The Foundry died the day it was born.

It was never given the creative support it required, and Cryptic's refusal to continue to update it in the early days ensured it's eventual demise.

The official REASON was "lack of resources" -- staff, time and money. Basically, they couldn't envision a way to monetize it.

Let's try and put our DEVELOPER caps on mates!

For those that would be INTERESTED to see the Foundry come back, either on a new server or as an integral part of the game, l ask you the Neverwinter community to try to envision specific, concrete ways to monetize the foundry. Think big and think small.

There is no other game feature in my opinion that is responsible for more people coming to Neverwinter, and no other LOST feature that is responsible for people LEAVING Neverwinter.

Please do not respond that you have no interest in the Foundry, that's not the goal of this thread.

THINKTANK: My GOAL is to GATHER IDEAS on how to make it PROFITABLE & FEASIBLE for Cryptic to bring it back, but in a format that excites the NW playerbase, or brings people BACK to Neverwinter (especially the Dreamweavers, the custom content authors/creators that were excited about Neverwinter again), or brings in NEW BLOOD, who would like to create or play custom content.


For the CPAs & Lawyers & Beancounters in shiny suits that PW & Cryptic gainfully employs:

What's the bottom line -- WHY BOTHER?? 2 big reasons:

1. NEW BLOOD.
2. PLAYER RETENTION through REPLAY-ABILITY.

Well since the foundry brought players in in the first place, and they left when it did, that is reason enough to bring it back because more players means more money.

But if you really want a payment model, how about a zen tip jar, the author gets tips on great content and Cryptic gets a cut of that tip.

derdrakon

How to make the Foundry profitable.

I think the Foundry was something that made Neverwinter really stand out of the crowd, and it can do it again.

With the right concept for

- Motivation
- Content
- Rewards

it can bring new players, content creators and money to Neverwinter.

First of all, the Foundry must be attractive. The content crators need access to as many resources as possible. Would be nice, if they could even script events to some degree. Give creativity what it needs to go crazy! Not all needs to be accessible from the start. You can sell special resources to the content creators for zen, AD or money in packs. Chult pack, Ravenloft pack... When they are new, creators can buy them for money or zen. When they get older, like 2 Mods old, they can buy them for AD too. When then get old, like 5 Mods or so, they become part of the free basic pack. Give Content Creators the ability to make PVP maps. This could help to revive PVP.

Introduce a Foundry Event, like the Summer or Winter Event. Maybe 1 or 2 weeks long. Let creators compete with their foundries against each other and give special rewards to players for playing and to creator if their Foundry was played like 100 or 1000 times (special transmutes or vanity pets..).

Give the creators the option to earn something with their work, besides reputation. The possibility to earn something may motivate to make an investment to buy access to early/special content resources.
- Let the creators deside, if the access to their foundry costs something. Maybe 1AD, maybe 10AD, 100AD, 1000AD. Or maybe even Zen?
- Let creators place rewards into the chest, that they have bought from you. For example: the creator buys a reward pack with 100x rank 4 mark of potency, and puts this into the chest. He also desides about the chance to pull 1 of these marks out of the chest. 0.01%, 0.1%, 3%, 15%, its the creators desision. Of course the players can see, how many rewards are left to farm, and the chance. That way creators can also compete with price (for entering the foundry) and rewards against each other, and not just content and quality. At the end the player can still be asked for a donation in AD or Zen! for the work. In the case of Zen, that a creator earned that way, let the creator deside, if he wants to use it ingame, or if he wants to sell it back to cryptic (for less than it was bought of course). That way you might get some creators, that create high quality content and invest into the game before they get something out of it.

In short, give the creators a platform to earn a little bit, and they will bring new players.

Just some ideas...

thefiresidecat

the problem with all of htis is foundry was only available on pc (Guessing there were reasons) and they are trying to build for three platforms. I'm guessing the differences in coding were enough to make it a lot of extra work to keep around. adding things to it that make there be even more differences between platforms would probably end up costing them significantly in man hours

krailov

Right, the foundry may only be available for creating on PC, but I see no reason that once it is published it goes into the platforms as playable content.

1. I would recommend that creating content is free (no bar to entry).
   
2. To publish the content, you need to pay Zen or AD - maybe as your earn 'kudos' for highly rated content your cost goes down/subsidized, but I would be cautious about this as new creators have a higher barrier.
   
3. For players to play content, they need to buy Foundry unlocks/access - cheap (or 0) for new (less than 2 weeks old), more for established ones that are rated by stars (sliding pay scale)
   
4. Have a regular chest that rewards play as per normal skirmish (balance what you pay to get in vs rewards)
   
5. Have a special chest that is Zen unlock (or VIP) for potions and gear of character level
   

Not sure about donations yet, but maybe a set scale (0 AD, 100 AD, 1 Zen) rather than any amount.
Also just thought - maybe kudos of good creators unlocks more current content (as per derdrakon's post) rather than lowering publish cost. I would also have known good creators go straight to pay model on release (or a shorter free access window )

jimmypdt

Why not just make it part of VIP? Certain levels of VIP can unlock more features. And once you have level 12 you have all features unlocked. This would make people buy VIP. Just my 2 cents.

All the best,
OPTank_

*fixed typo... I think*

sandukutupu

@cwhitesidedev#9752 said something vague on the live stream. Personally I think it is too late to revive the Foundry. I for one did not want to lose the Foundry. My issue is now the trust is gone. How can we few Foundry Authors remaining in the game put our faith they will not just delete our stories again after another year or two? Unless the developers tell me otherwise, I am very certain they purged that data from the system.

@hustin1 has or had 5 stories in his signature to this day. Would you really want to rebuild the database for the same people who burned our books? I wept. It was a travesty of epic scale and I don't know if I could bring myself to assist in such an endeavor unless the Cryptic developers still have our stories.

@thefiresidecat said the Foundry was only for the PC and this is true, but it doesn't have to be. It is not only possible, it has already been done. If Cryptic would take a page from another company's work along similar lines. Assassin's Creed Story Editor is a free online tool (assuming you own the game) for all the platforms. Granted the editor is limited to existing game maps and characters, you go to the webpage and edit the dialog and events in a multiple arc story editor. When I save and publish my story, it is ready to play on all the platforms. You just need to access the internet to create content.

As for making money with the Foundry, I fear that ship sailed when they abandoned the authors. However I have been told by several authors they would pay cash money for a working editor. Simon, a doctor in Canada, gave up and left the game because of the numerous Foundry outages in every module release that lasted months. He once suggested to me they could sell upgrade packs in the zen store such as all the dragons in Well of the Dragons. As for myself, I have suggested offering 2 versions of the Foundry. A free "Foundry Lite" and the "Foundry Master" version for a one time cash only payment. However, if you plan to sell anything at all, make certain it is 99.999% bug free.

At this point, I really don't want to get my hopes up just to have them flushed or purged again.

jimmypdt

sandukutupu said:

@cwhitesidedev#9752 said something vague on the live stream. Personally I think it is too late to revive the Foundry. I for one did not want to lose the Foundry. My issue is now the trust is gone. How can we few Foundry Authors remaining in the game put our faith they will not just delete our stories again after another year or two? Unless the developers tell me otherwise, I am very certain they purged that data from the system.

@hustin1 has or had 5 stories in his signature to this day. Would you really want to rebuild the database for the same people who burned our books? I wept. It was a travesty of epic scale and I don't know if I could bring myself to assist in such an endeavor unless the Cryptic developers still have our stories.

@thefiresidecat said the Foundry was only for the PC and this is true, but it doesn't have to be. It is not only possible, it has already been done. If Cryptic would take a page from another company's work along similar lines. Assassin's Creed Story Editor is a free online tool (assuming you own the game) for all the platforms. Granted the editor is limited to existing game maps and characters, you go to the webpage and edit the dialog and events in a multiple arc story editor. When I save and publish my story, it is ready to play on all the platforms. You just need to access the internet to create content.

As for making money with the Foundry, I fear that ship sailed when they abandoned the authors. However I have been told by several authors they would pay cash money for a working editor. Simon, a doctor in Canada, gave up and left the game because of the numerous Foundry outages in every module release that lasted months. He once suggested to me they could sell upgrade packs in the zen store such as all the dragons in Well of the Dragons. As for myself, I have suggested offering 2 versions of the Foundry. A free "Foundry Lite" and the "Foundry Master" version for a one time cash only payment. However, if you plan to sell anything at all, make certain it is 99.999% bug free.

At this point, I really don't want to get my hopes up just to have them flushed or purged again.

This is what Chris just said in Nova stream.

About the foundry-

"I think it is great in terms of concept and powerful too, however the focus is on a few other areas before we get back to Foundry. I also need to get a better understanding of the current tool etc. At the moment i am focused on the main game."

About what Chris and the rest of the team are currently working on-

"personally i am focused on learning the game and supporting the team. We are evaluating focii with Accesibility as per the CDP as well as dicussing other areas. Community collaboration is also key at the moment"

All the best,
OPTank_

aandrethegiant

Ok You guys & gals are CRANKIN'! Definitely want to hear from others now.

Thank you for keeping focused for the most part. Again the "Foundry wont work because..." or "Its too late" posts may very well be valid but they are off topic in this thread. This thread is solely a collaborative exhibit to consider what it would take to MAKE the Foundry profitable in TODAY'S Neverwinter, to make it actually work for the community better than it ever has.

Thank you tho for everyone's comments. Looking forward to reading more ideas!

aandrethegiant

Well we have some solid and stunning ideas mentioned here that can make the Foundry fly once more.

Counting on Chris and the great dev team to do what's right in this en-devour.

The Foundry can be a money maker. No question about it. It can be an integral part of the game this time around, or a popular time sync that can bring new blood in and bring those ghosts back to life, our long gone dreamweavers... the content creators.

Come on Cryptic. You can bring the Foundry back to the streets. D&D .. the thrill of the fight. Do Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson proud.

Survivor. Does Neverwinter have the eye of the tiger?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPJPFnesV4


Tip: IF you bring the Foundry back to life, why not have it re-launch with a DEV TEAM created FOUNDRY module in dedication to this man and Dave Arneson: