full tales set vs tales artifact and demo set

jantogsf

Curious if anyone has tested the full Tales set (4 artifacts, neck and belt) vs Tales artifacts (3) and demo set?

Which does more damage on average?

jman3l

Tales artifacts + demo set is by far better. Tales artifacts + apprentice spoils set is also far better.

jantogsf

> @jman3l#5579 said:
> Tales artifacts + demo set is by far better. Tales artifacts + apprentice spoils set is also far better.

Tales + Apprentice spoils is better than Tales + Demo?

mentinmindmaker

I would suggest not doing any major investments until mod 18 is on Test this coming Friday though.

5 weeks to go, things could change. I would assume Cryptic is not too happy that a very old set like Orcus is still BiS.

jantogsf

> @jman3l#5579 said:
> Tales artifacts + demo set is by far better. Tales artifacts + apprentice spoils set is also far better.

Tales + Apprentice spoils is better than Tales + Demo?> @mentinmindmaker said:
> I would suggest not doing any major investments until mod 18 is on Test this coming Friday though.
>
> 5 weeks to go, things could change. I would assume Cryptic is not too happy that a very old set like Orcus is still BiS.

Good point!

derdrakon

jman3l#5579 said:

Tales artifacts + demo set is by far better. Tales artifacts + apprentice spoils set is also far better.

Hmm, I'm curious. How far better is "far better"? I mean, do you have numbers, or a comparison? In the past, wenn people said, "far better", that usualy meant like 1-2%. I have both sets, and I use full tales. I did not do any research or comparison, I just like it for the look and because, well, I'm kind of sick of the orcus set by now.

dread4moor

jman3l#5579 said:

Tales artifacts + demo set is by far better. Tales artifacts + apprentice spoils set is also far better.

Would be interesting, but need some quant.
Can you share your comparison ACT?
Or link to someone else who posted that data?

jman3l

> @derdrakon said:
> (Quote)
> Hmm, I'm curious. How far better is "far better"? I mean, do you have numbers, or a comparison? In the past, wenn people said, "far better", that usualy meant like 1-2%. I have both sets, and I use full tales. I did not do any research or comparison, I just like it for the look and because, well, I'm kind of sick of the orcus set by now.

The lostmauth bonus from the 3tales artifacts usually averages anywhere between 0.8% to 1.5%. The unresistable 10% from the neck/waist is horrible, less than 0.5% as it shows up as 0% in ACT.

Demogorgon set gives ~6% extra damage when you average out the bonus on a boss with a large HP pool (Halaster). Its BIS for most dps classes. For rangers, apprentice spoils, with the right build (my current build), gives me about 5%-8% depending on my TOMM run. Its tied with or BIS for melee warden dps builds of you run an INT/DEX build with good AP gain.

Keep in mind those are averages. I've probably run about 50 ACTs on these two set bonuses alone haha. Also keep in mind that if you have three tales artifacts, you still receive both tales of old set bonuses. Having the neck and waist piece is a waste when you could combine that with the demon lord or apprentice spoils set. The attributes effectively end up coming out evenly, depending on your build. The apprentice spoils waste for example gives +2 to STR/INT. Part of the reason it brings it up to demogorgon damage levels.

If you are sick of the orcus set (like me) try apprentice spoils as it's at least 2nd BIS =].

sobi

jman3l#5579 said:

> @derdrakon said:

> (Quote)

> Hmm, I'm curious. How far better is "far better"? I mean, do you have numbers, or a comparison? In the past, wenn people said, "far better", that usualy meant like 1-2%. I have both sets, and I use full tales. I did not do any research or comparison, I just like it for the look and because, well, I'm kind of sick of the orcus set by now.



The lostmauth bonus from the 3tales artifacts usually averages anywhere between 0.8% to 1.5%. The unresistable 10% from the neck/waist is horrible, less than 0.5% as it shows up as 0% in ACT.



Demogorgon set gives ~6% extra damage when you average out the bonus on a boss with a large HP pool (Halaster). Its BIS for most dps classes. For rangers, apprentice spoils, with the right build (my current build), gives me about 5%-8% depending on my TOMM run. Its tied with or BIS for melee warden dps builds of you run an INT/DEX build with good AP gain.



Keep in mind those are averages. I've probably run about 50 ACTs on these two set bonuses alone haha. Also keep in mind that if you have three tales artifacts, you still receive both tales of old set bonuses. Having the neck and waist piece is a waste when you could combine that with the demon lord or apprentice spoils set. The attributes effectively end up coming out evenly, depending on your build. The apprentice spoils waste for example gives +2 to STR/INT. Part of the reason it brings it up to demogorgon damage levels.



If you are sick of the orcus set (like me) try apprentice spoils as it's at least 2nd BIS =].

Orcus set does 6%, really? I was pretty sure that even for rangers, orcus was BiS and the only class that apprentice soils can be BiS is for wizards as can be expected. I was of the mindset that orcus gave around 8-10% dmg over the whole duration of TOMM.

jantogsf

> @jman3l#5579 said:
> > @derdrakon said:
> > (Quote)
> > Hmm, I'm curious. How far better is "far better"? I mean, do you have numbers, or a comparison? In the past, wenn people said, "far better", that usualy meant like 1-2%. I have both sets, and I use full tales. I did not do any research or comparison, I just like it for the look and because, well, I'm kind of sick of the orcus set by now.
>
> The lostmauth bonus from the 3tales artifacts usually averages anywhere between 0.8% to 1.5%. The unresistable 10% from the neck/waist is horrible, less than 0.5% as it shows up as 0% in ACT.
>
> Demogorgon set gives ~6% extra damage when you average out the bonus on a boss with a large HP pool (Halaster). Its BIS for most dps classes. For rangers, apprentice spoils, with the right build (my current build), gives me about 5%-8% depending on my TOMM run. Its tied with or BIS for melee warden dps builds of you run an INT/DEX build with good AP gain.
>
> Keep in mind those are averages. I've probably run about 50 ACTs on these two set bonuses alone haha. Also keep in mind that if you have three tales artifacts, you still receive both tales of old set bonuses. Having the neck and waist piece is a waste when you could combine that with the demon lord or apprentice spoils set. The attributes effectively end up coming out evenly, depending on your build. The apprentice spoils waste for example gives +2 to STR/INT. Part of the reason it brings it up to demogorgon damage levels.
>
> If you are sick of the orcus set (like me) try apprentice spoils as it's at least 2nd BIS =].

Ahh! I didn't realize that if you have 3 Tales pieces you get all the bonuses. I thought you needed the full set. Thanks for clarifying!

zimxero

I can confirm that in my testing, Orcus was averaging about 6% damage boost. Lostmauth damage % varies a lot based on character and atwill speed. The Tales artifact bonus is nice and compares to a good set of +Power artifacts IF and only IF you have a useful Daily set-up with Envenomed active. For tanks, the Darkened might be OK though for some stamina gain.
The Gear & its bonus should be avoided everywhere except ToMM because it's stats downscale so much.

jman3l

> @zimxero#8085 said:
> I can confirm that in my testing, Orcus was averaging about 6% damage boost. Lostmauth damage % varies a lot based on character and atwill speed. The Tales artifact bonus is nice and compares to a good set of +Power artifacts IF and only IF you have a useful Daily set-up with Envenomed active. For tanks, the Darkened might be OK though for some stamina gain.
> The Gear & its bonus should be avoided everywhere except ToMM because it's stats downscale so much.

Keep in mind that stacking the tales artifacts also gives a power and hp bonus. Having three of them isn't too much less power than having blast scepter + trobriands ring + staff of flowers, and the lostmauth hit probably makes up the difference. Darkened does so much insane damage that it actually helps build daily quite fast. The reason I think arcturia could be BIS is with overloads you build AP very quickly. I can probably use 8-10 dailies in the first phase of TOMM with call of the storm, 1 or 2 dailies during first dps check, another 8-10 for phase 3 and 1 or 2 for last dps check.

sobi

jman3l#5579 said:

> @zimxero#8085 said:

> I can confirm that in my testing, Orcus was averaging about 6% damage boost. Lostmauth damage % varies a lot based on character and atwill speed. The Tales artifact bonus is nice and compares to a good set of +Power artifacts IF and only IF you have a useful Daily set-up with Envenomed active. For tanks, the Darkened might be OK though for some stamina gain.

> The Gear & its bonus should be avoided everywhere except ToMM because it's stats downscale so much.



Keep in mind that stacking the tales artifacts also gives a power and hp bonus. Having three of them isn't too much less power than having blast scepter + trobriands ring + staff of flowers, and the lostmauth hit probably makes up the difference. Darkened does so much insane damage that it actually helps build daily quite fast. The reason I think arcturia could be BIS is with overloads you build AP very quickly. I can probably use 8-10 dailies in the first phase of TOMM with call of the storm, 1 or 2 dailies during first dps check, another 8-10 for phase 3 and 1 or 2 for last dps check.

I kind of need advice if you don't mind. I don't want to use envenomed as active artifact but i do want the bonuses from the journals. If i then use 3 journals with another active artifact i won't be able to get orcus set bonus or arcturia set bonus.

So if i was to equip only 2 of the journals, do i get 1500 power and 15000 hp? If lets say i equip 4, do i then get 3k power and 30k hp?

mamalion1234

jman3l#5579 said:

> @zimxero#8085 said:

> I can confirm that in my testing, Orcus was averaging about 6% damage boost. Lostmauth damage % varies a lot based on character and atwill speed. The Tales artifact bonus is nice and compares to a good set of +Power artifacts IF and only IF you have a useful Daily set-up with Envenomed active. For tanks, the Darkened might be OK though for some stamina gain.

> The Gear & its bonus should be avoided everywhere except ToMM because it's stats downscale so much.



Keep in mind that stacking the tales artifacts also gives a power and hp bonus. Having three of them isn't too much less power than having blast scepter + trobriands ring + staff of flowers, and the lostmauth hit probably makes up the difference. Darkened does so much insane damage that it actually helps build daily quite fast. The reason I think arcturia could be BIS is with overloads you build AP very quickly. I can probably use 8-10 dailies in the first phase of TOMM with call of the storm, 1 or 2 dailies during first dps check, another 8-10 for phase 3 and 1 or 2 for last dps check.

how you build ap faster with darkened?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1rw3IisApM

idris do not generate ap

About the dps checks you can use max 1 daily not 1-2.

jman3l

I'm a ranger, I can use 2 dailies (call of the storm) for the dps checks to proc inherit danger set bonus.

mamalion1234

jman3l#5579 said:

I'm a ranger, I can use 2 dailies (call of the storm) for the dps checks to proc inherit danger set bonus.

ok then

mamalion1234

inherit danger set bonus btw is 15% additional hit to damage you already do and not 15% damage increase. that make it a very bad choice comparing to orcus.

jman3l

@mamalion1234 its Neko-kun btw. I beat a lot of orcus users in TOMM. It's more than just the set bonus.
Having the AP gain, the STR/INT gives more % damage and allows me to cap stats easier/have more power and hp. Apprentice spoils set seems to work well for me *shrugs*. Plus I hate that old set.

mamalion1234

jman3l#5579 said:

@mamalion1234 its Neko-kun btw. I beat a lot of orcus users in TOMM. Apprentice spoils set seems to work well for me *shrugs*. Plus I hate that old set.

is not the set it is just you play bettter or you are lucky with the criticals.


here you can see that is just an extra hit.

jman3l

Do you have data showing % increase using orcus vs inherit danger? Orcus is only like ~6%.

mamalion1234

jman3l#5579 said:

Do you have data showing % increase using orcus vs inherit danger? Orcus is only like ~6%.

you cant calculate orcus like this you have to go vs the mob and you will see the damage increase step by step.
orcus dont show up on act as % of your damage.

sobi

mamalion1234 said:

inherit danger set bonus btw is 15% additional hit to damage you already do and not 15% damage increase. that make it a very bad choice comparing to orcus.

That doesn't matter. On ACT, most people are getting 4-8% values for inherit danger, 6% seems like average. Theoretically orcus set bonus should give around 10% but should be less in TOMM because 1st dps check happens when he is 20% health. Nonetheless, during phase 4, orcus set is life saver. So it would be advisable for all dps to go orcus unless they have low hp.

mamalion1234

sobi#1980 said:

mamalion1234 said:

inherit danger set bonus btw is 15% additional hit to damage you already do and not 15% damage increase. that make it a very bad choice comparing to orcus.

That doesn't matter. On ACT, most people are getting 4-8% values for inherit danger, 6% seems like average. Theoretically orcus set bonus should give around 10% but should be less in TOMM because 1st dps check happens when he is 20% health. Nonetheless, during phase 4, orcus set is life saver. So it would be advisable for all dps to go orcus unless they have low hp.

i get 58% with inherit danger when i test on dummy with test weapons;p

here is a hunter use the inherit danger is 3% of his damage.

mentinmindmaker

Bye bye Orcus set.

From mod 18 post on Test:
One main call out we'd like to make here is that the Demon Lord's artifact set bonus has been adjusted. It is now a maximum of 10% damage boost instead of 20%. We understand there will be players unhappy with this change, but it was necessary as this artifact set bonus was very much out of line with the rest of them and created a situation where a very old, lower item level artifact set was always the best choice no matter what else came along.

jantogsf

> @mamalion1234 said:
> inherit danger set bonus btw is 15% additional hit to damage you already do and not 15% damage increase. that make it a very bad choice comparing to orcus.

Sounds like you just said the same thing twice.> @mentinmindmaker said:
> Bye bye Orcus set.
>
> From mod 18 post on Test:
> One main call out we'd like to make here is that the Demon Lord's artifact set bonus has been adjusted. It is now a maximum of 10% damage boost instead of 20%. We understand there will be players unhappy with this change, but it was necessary as this artifact set bonus was very much out of line with the rest of them and created a situation where a very old, lower item level artifact set was always the best choice no matter what else came along.

Bye bye orcus set! Hello orcus set (10% still sounds gooood). Actually, maybe I will try something else (Apprentice Spoils).

jman3l

Oh good finally. The one nerf I'm okay with. 10% is a giant nerd. It pretty much puts the orcus dps boost at around 3%-4%. This means apprentice spoils beats it easily. Like very easily.