My Regular Rant About Lockboxes and Value

callumf#9018
callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
Ok I do this every few months; I buy some VIP to test the new Lockbox.

Before you start flaming - heck yes VIP has lots of other benefits at Rank 12 and you do get 30 keys cheap.

And NO I DONT expect a legendary mount - so don't think I am after that particularly.

But opening the new Stardock Box [I think its called] feels like being slapped about the face with a small still living fish.

Day 1 - 6 Jadeite and two GREEN insignia that aren't even any good
Day 2 - 3 Jadeite, 1 Rank 9 Enchant and 2 Major Frozen Treasure Vouchers

For newer players this may be useful, but for a year three player its irrelevant.

I can get better rewards from running content :)

Please remove the bottom four rewards from each section and make it worth opening please :)
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Comments

  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Day 3 - 6 Jadeite and 4 Black Opals - what the actual fork?
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User
    RP is the most common lockbox reward.

    The insignias stack up so you can upgrade to better. That's what I tend to do with them.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Day 4

    3 Jadeite
    1 Rank 6 MOP
    2 Green Mount Insignia - Dominance though :)

    That's a bit more like it - and @greywynd I know RP is the most common reward. But for vet players is RP what we most need?

    For newer players this kind of RP is very useful - so mainly I see the Lockboxes as being aimed at new players only, whilst the rest of VIP is aimed at the Vet players via QOL upgrades.

    I think this is unbalanced and a nudge towards removing SOME of the RP in favour of Enchating stones/MOPs rank 5 + [Minimum] and upping the Enchantments to at least Rank 11 or even 12 would go a long way to bring back income on VIP
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User
    I have 9 characters that I tend to use fairly regularly. That's 9 main hand, 9 offhand, 9 necks, 9 belts, up to 36 artifacts that need improvement every time they drop new gear on us. There is always a need for RP.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    greywynd said:

    I have 9 characters that I tend to use fairly regularly. That's 9 main hand, 9 offhand, 9 necks, 9 belts, up to 36 artifacts that need improvement every time they drop new gear on us. There is always a need for RP.

    We will have to agree to disagree.

    Yes for you - that makes sense, but really if you have Dragon Hoard Enchants on each of them shouldn't they be pretty self sufficient?

    The RP generated via Lockboxes is pretty low.

    I play 2 toons, 1 has 1.3m RP and the other has 400k RP. :)
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I also don't want RP. I have way too much and I could not sell unbound RP fast enough (more on my laziness and unwillingness to sell them in low price). I played 6 characters regularly, 4 next level characters (only play them a bit, nothing serious) and 6 more invocation characters. All these already have over 1 million char bound RP each and the mains have over 2 million.
    Then, I have more storage toons with inventory filled with stacks of unbound RP only + mail box + thousands un-opened enchanted coffers + I have not opened quartermaster bags for years + ...
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • kreatyve
    kreatyve Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,539 Community Moderator
    I don't like the Stardock boxes. I only get RP out of them. I have nearly a million RP and have been trying to make enchants to sell to use it up, but keep running out of the stones I need. *sigh*
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User



    We will have to agree to disagree.

    Yes for you - that makes sense, but really if you have Dragon Hoard Enchants on each of them shouldn't they be pretty self sufficient?

    The RP generated via Lockboxes is pretty low.

    I play 2 toons, 1 has 1.3m RP and the other has 400k RP. :)

    DH/QM and no, not enough, when you have a lot to feed.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    I don't like the Stardock boxes. I only get RP out of them. I have nearly a million RP and have been trying to make enchants to sell to use it up, but keep running out of the stones I need. *sigh*

    I used to do that but I determined it is waste of time for little gain.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • emese#4731
    emese#4731 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    Not sure this the best place to post but I would like to suggest that the drop boxes have a guaranteed drop of legendary mount just like there is a guaranteed refinement after x number of trials. This can be really in line with the percentage...like opening 650 locckboxes will grant a legendary mount....and after the 1st win you the number increases to like 1000 or so - so there is no abuse.
    I do understand that opening lockboxes is a gamble ... I opened many with no luck (except the 1st 20 that I got a leg deep crow...but none since then). I opened them knowing my chances are low hence I would not complain that I did not win in a lottery. Yet I think, this is a game and introducing some sort of stability will go a long way. IMO giving a guaranteed drop will increase the key purchase and also the confidence in the game. One is a monetary gain but the other is more important as it is gain in trust. Of course it will need a careful consideration of how many keys will guarantee the leg mount as one doesn't want to unbalance the market.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    Not sure this the best place to post but I would like to suggest that the drop boxes have a guaranteed drop of legendary mount just like there is a guaranteed refinement after x number of trials. This can be really in line with the percentage...like opening 650 locckboxes will grant a legendary mount....and after the 1st win you the number increases to like 1000 or so - so there is no abuse.

    I do understand that opening lockboxes is a gamble ... I opened many with no luck (except the 1st 20 that I got a leg deep crow...but none since then). I opened them knowing my chances are low hence I would not complain that I did not win in a lottery. Yet I think, this is a game and introducing some sort of stability will go a long way. IMO giving a guaranteed drop will increase the key purchase and also the confidence in the game. One is a monetary gain but the other is more important as it is gain in trust. Of course it will need a careful consideration of how many keys will guarantee the leg mount as one doesn't want to unbalance the market.

    How do they set that up when each lockbox has different legendary mount/pack? Or, different Jackpot.
    It is different from the guaranteed refine because the counter is within the item you want to refine.
    The lockbox is consumed when you open it. Hence, the counter can't be on the lockbox itself.
    The counter would be on the character. Now, there are many lockbox.
    How many counters do they need to keep within the character?

    If they say lockbox A has 1/1000 to get the best prize, will you get 1000 lockbox A from the game before the lockbox A is replaced by lockbox B? Or, will you start to use AD to buy lockbox A? What if it is 1/2000?

    I personally keep over 50 different types of lockbox and counting. Many of them do not even have legendary mount.
    May be the counter should not be referencing legendary mount but one "Jackpot" counter. Jackpot can be anything classified as Jackpot for the lockbox you open.

    If it is implemented that way, I would open 70% high average value but low Jackpot value lockbox and the last 30% for the low average value but high jackpot value lockbox.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • emese#4731
    emese#4731 Member Posts: 72 Arc User
    I would say bind it to key...no matter which lockbox you open. Of course there will be locckboxes ..leg mounts that are more desired. But isn't it already how it works? Most open the ones they want the leg mount from. And the guarantee drop will not effect the chance ...so one can get it with 1 key ...if lucky
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    I would say bind it to key...no matter which lockbox you open. Of course there will be locckboxes ..leg mounts that are more desired. But isn't it already how it works? Most open the ones they want the leg mount from. And the guarantee drop will not effect the chance ...so one can get it with 1 key ...if lucky

    The key disappears when you use it. Not all the lockbox has legendary mount.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Day 5
    Six Jadeite
    4 Black Opal

    Sorry that's rubbish that I can grind out RP wise very quickly.
  • jules#6770
    jules#6770 Member Posts: 708 Arc User
    The most recent lockboxes are all trash in my opinion. I open Glorious Resurgence or Ravenloft (or generally older) to be honest. I can make more AD with those boxes/packs altogether, like Soulmonger mount packs or bloody comp packs etc.
    I can also use the vouchers.
    I actually have a use for a lot of stuff, so to really only get RP all the time (the only thing I really don't need, not even with 8 alts) is just annoying.
    - bye bye -
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Day 6
    Orange Teal diamond - on the AH for 100k AD, lets see if it sells...
    3 Jadeiete
    2 Major Influence vouchers - on AH for 13k AD
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,454 Arc User
    Stardock Legendary Mount Pack
    Dragon's Hoard r9
    4 Black Opal

    :p
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I have been saying this. The lockbox mechanism can read your mind. Whatever you want in your mind, you won't get it.
    Whatever you are not thinking about, you may get it.

    Long time ago, I wanted something big, I never got it. Hence, I don't even bother to open box much anymore.
    Once a loooong while, I open lockbox for something specific.
    So, in this 2xGuild mark, I decided to open 30 lockbox to get SH voucher.
    I opened 30 lockbox and got 4 vouchers in total (and gave me less than 2000 GM after 2x, Sigh!) and one legendary mount (the very first one). :)
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • dread4moor
    dread4moor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,154 Arc User
    [Takes out broken record, places on LP player.]

    Lockboxes are gambling.
    Always cheaper to save up and buy items with AD than spend enough keys to get any one particular item.
    Treat lockboxes the same way you treat a game of craps in Vegas:
    Do it for the "fun" not the winnings.
    But remember: the house always wins.
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    I am Took.
    "Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User

    [Takes out broken record, places on LP player.]

    Lockboxes are gambling.
    Always cheaper to save up and buy items with AD than spend enough keys to get any one particular item.
    Treat lockboxes the same way you treat a game of craps in Vegas:
    Do it for the "fun" not the winnings.
    But remember: the house always wins.

    Yes indeed.

    But the point is to raise awareness of how much crapola you get from the Lockboxes. I have said time and time again, this isn't about the Legendary Mount. I don't expect that.

    What I don't expect is RP I can grind out during normal play in an hour or so or less.

    I expect stuff I actually need or can use - MOPS, rank 5 and above, Enchanting Stones, rank 5 and above, Pres Wards, Proper Amounts of Companion Upgrade Tokens, Purple Mounts and Companions, Enchantments rank 11+ Runestones Rank 11 +
  • killzoneex
    killzoneex Member Posts: 94 Arc User
    For essentially a pay to open box, there should be no "bad" rewards. The new boxes have bad rewards.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User
    Day 7
    Dark Enchantment Rank 9 - meh worth 2k AD
    MOP Rank 5 - useful
    Blue Mount Insignia - meh
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019

    Day 7
    Dark Enchantment Rank 9 - meh worth 2k AD
    MOP Rank 5 - useful
    Blue Mount Insignia - meh

    Do you have any old lockbox? May be your guild bank keeps a few. Opening the current few is waste of time and key. You may just stash the key and see if the future one can be better.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • kharkov58
    kharkov58 Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Old lockboxes are just as worthless. If you do not get the legendary drop or epic mount pack, the rest of the rewards have dropped so much in price as to be worth only a few thousand ad.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    kharkov58 said:

    Old lockboxes are just as worthless. If you do not get the legendary drop or epic mount pack, the rest of the rewards have dropped so much in price as to be worth only a few thousand ad.

    The OP I replied to was looking for:
    MOPS, rank 5 and above, Enchanting Stones, rank 5 and above, Pres Wards, Proper Amounts of Companion Upgrade Tokens, Purple Mounts and Companions

    When I open 30 old lockbox in the weekend, I got many of those. I can't say I would have such score with the newer lockbox.
    I am not saying these worth a lot but these are what OP was looking for.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • grogthemagnif
    grogthemagnif Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,611 Arc User
    Like I said before, in the Zen price for lockbox keys was adjusted to 30 Zenper key, then the players would be paying about the same amount of AD (25,000 for 125 Zen at 200 AD/1 Zen vs. 22,500 for 30 Zen at 750 AD/1 Zen).
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    I don't buy lockbox key. Mine are all VIP lockbox keys. I don't like to open lockbox. So far, I stash about 500 VIP lockbox keys.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.
  • callumf#9018
    callumf#9018 Member Posts: 1,585 Arc User

    Day 7
    Dark Enchantment Rank 9 - meh worth 2k AD
    MOP Rank 5 - useful
    Blue Mount Insignia - meh

    Do you have any old lockbox? May be your guild bank keeps a few. Opening the current few is waste of time and key. You may just stash the key and see if the future one can be better.
    Thank you or that. :) Great advice I usually do buy old lockboxes from the AH.

    However, in this case I wanted to discuss/highlight my thoughts on the Stardock Box.

    Day 8
    3 Jadeite
    1 MOP Rank 6 - very useful :)
    4 Black Opal
  • milehighxr#1299
    milehighxr#1299 Member Posts: 429 Arc User
    The pattern I have seen on Xbox(where I play 99% of the time), is if I rely on VIP keys I get nothing but RP, and refinement stones(but not nearly enough of the right ones, or even by half the amount needed). I think I've only ever gotten one epic comp, maybe. I haven't gotten any wards(coal, or pres in over 9 months). I only have 4 toons I regularly abuse, er I mean play, and 3 of them have over 600k RP(2 with over 1.3mil RP). I have no use for it due to the lack of refining stones. I've even tried opening lockboxes with a low level toon to see if that made a difference in the rewards, and nope, still RP trash.

    However, when I spend actual money on the game(I always buy keys or bank slots/character slots now, because they nerfed my tiger comp), I always, always get one legendary mount, or pack. The last 2 were within 36 keys of a 50 key bundle(or out of a total of 50+ keys, between 2 bundles, with a few VIP keys in there). The last time I did this was over black friday weekend. I bought a couple of key bundles and opened lock boxes, rinsed and repeated hoping I could pull 2 or 3 legendary mounts. Nope, only one and no other "jackpot" rewards out of that stack of cash that was put in.

    I have yet to try putting in smaller amount of cash and opening lockboxes, but I expect there is a trigger point of function in the lockbox rewards.

    Personally, I would like to see the latest lockboxes have no enchants lower than R12(including more frequent weapon and armor enchants, preferably choice packs), and a significantly higher number of refining stones(especially MOPs r4 and above, and enchanting stone R5). And all crafting stuff(even legendary tools) need to be unbound. I don't craft, and have this one legendary tool that I got way back in jan/feb and I can't do anything with it except sell it for 1 or 2 gold. That's BS IMHO. If I can sell a legendary mount pack, or legendary mount, why in all of Fearun can't I sell/trade a legendary tool. I had a trade all worked out with someone for a legendary mount, or r14 enchant IIRC, and I couldn't do it cuz only found out it was BtC on pick up when I went to complete the trade. This reminds me, I have to sell all my crafting HAMSTER, man that's gonna take hours of fumbling around to list...
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,447 Arc User
    edited December 2019
    If there is a difference between VIP lockbox key and purchase lockbox key, Cryptic should state that for their benefit because that will increase lockbox key sales. They can just call it "Super legendary lockbox key" that gives you X% more chance to hit the jackpot. I used 30 VIP lockbox last weekend and got one Legendary mount. That does not mean anything besides I was lucky.

    IMO, if you use your (one) VIP key everyday, the odd is against you.
    I always find a lone location and use a bunch (not necessary lockbox, it can be anything). I don't do one. That can be another 'myth' but that is my practice.
    The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will.