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  • d3cepti0n#1453 d3cepti0n Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    While I agree that the DpS paths of many classes need a buff, I feel like there are some false expectations when people talk about "class balance".

    The classes would be balanced if every class could fit into a role optimally. You keep repeating the words "class balancing" in every post, expecting to reach a point where every dps class runs into ToMM with any path and has the same damage output as the others.
    Then, to be "balanced", the classes would also need to have the same AoE dps, so that a class wouldn't be strictly a better version of another class, correct?
    Then, if the DpS path of a DpS/X class was as strong as either DpS path of DpS/DpS class, wouldn't the first class always be a better choice to gear?
    And if DpS/DpS classes were given another role to compensate?
    Then, what's the point of having classes and forming parties? Cosmetics?

    The sweet point of MMORPGs in my opinion is, and always has been, filling roles. "For this challenge we'll need a lot of burst damage, we need X class. This boss deals a lot of DoT, we need Y class for their HoT."

    If classes were to be perfectly interchangeable with each other, the very concept of having a Class would be just cosmetic.

    The unique traits and strong points of each class is what makes them... well, unique.

    Class balancing isn't to make the whole class system just a meaningless flavour, it's to make every class better than others, at something.
    While again, I agree that the dps paths of the part-dps classes need buffs, you can't possibly expect a class to be on-par on damage with the best dps classes in the game, and then when on a campfire, with the click of a button, become the best tank or healer in the game aswell.
    Piece by piece.
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    Sorry for the question here as it may be off topic a little, but how many groups have finished Tomm as of today? 4 or 5, so 50 people or is it more, and of that group are alts in that group?

    Reason for asking: so content was created that only 40 or 50 or even say 100 people completed, is that a valuable time and use of resources that less than 1% of game base is beating it? Not stating that more are not attempting, only that it was beaten by less than 1%.

    I know that something needed to be done to appease and keep the BIS players and this was the attempt to do that, but it also alienates a good portion of the playerbase, especially with the unbalanced dps classes. For those that complauned about mod 15 and it offering nothing for bis players, just think the shoe is now on the other foot. BIS players not happy with mod 15 are happy now, others are not. The devs need to find a way to meet a medium and keep both hroups of players happy ( BIS and your casual playerbase).

    I run a 25k dc on console, and to be honest am completely bored with the grind of MEd and Lomm. As a dps I'm not expecting to get into TOMM when it comes up live on console due to the imbalance in classes. So will run my new dailies till i get the companion gear I'm looking for and then will take a break.

    Tomm is great for BIS and I dont want that taken away, but something else should have been put out for the other masses other than the daily grind.
  • slappdanielslappdaniel Member Posts: 78 Arc User
    can someone hand me some popcorn please :)
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User

    Did you missed the ALL part? Of course you did. I said ALL content.
    And this is on writing, with plenty of time to understand the meaning of the post. Multiply that on live combat.
    There are about 10% pure extroverts in the general population and in a game the percentage it is at least half.
    The 95% rest of us like to have some solo content too.



    but... didnt u complain about ToMM? ToMM isnt all content, there is plenty of solo content in the game, if thats what u are looking for.
  • zyandraa#2367 zyandraa Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    There are points that I need to say you are definitely correct, but I got mentioned, so I want to say some words to ToMM & the stuff you said about the groups.

    Backpetal I'm sure you know me or my name, because im streaming Neverwinter as main game since nearly 1 year now (I would say that nearly every day streams belongs to playing & streaming it regularly???).
    I comment & share everything that I achieve or do in this game with the community. So when my guildmate Tom asked me if I'm interested in testing out ToMM (on preview) I said yes - why shouldn't I - to try it out and show it to the world. I myself don't really like to play on preview, but I heard that its more challenging than the other stuff in game so I wanted to know what it's like.

    Btw, before we even started to try it we asked around everywhere if there are players that want to join us. In guild & alliance, in stream, in discord, in facebook, etc (and found enough ppl in our Alliance then), so enough chances to do it with us.
    So, everytime I was in that group to test it, I was streaming it, uploaded videos on youtube & explained what I saw, heard and learned. Before it hit liveserver I showed how I equipped my characters to hit caps etc.
    And you know what? Even though I was able to finish it with my guild + alliance on preview & on liveserver I would never ever say that I belong to the "elite" or am "a top tier player". I'm just playing this game for 2 years now to have fun & still love and enjoy it. We are also taking people with us that don't know stuff about ToMM or haven't tested it before, but why should we break up our group if all 10 of us are having fun playing it?

    And I'm really sad that you say we are doing this for ingame profit. Or let me say it this way: If you say something like this, you maybe should at least not adress everyone thats running ToMM.
    I guess if someone would have asked you if you want to show ToMM (on preview or live) to your community you also wouldn't have said no.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User

    Sorry for the question here as it may be off topic a little, but how many groups have finished Tomm as of today? 4 or 5, so 50 people or is it more, and of that group are alts in that group?



    Reason for asking: so content was created that only 40 or 50 or even say 100 people completed, is that a valuable time and use of resources that less than 1% of game base is beating it? Not stating that more are not attempting, only that it was beaten by less than 1%.



    I know that something needed to be done to appease and keep the BIS players and this was the attempt to do that, but it also alienates a good portion of the playerbase, especially with the unbalanced dps classes. For those that complauned about mod 15 and it offering nothing for bis players, just think the shoe is now on the other foot. BIS players not happy with mod 15 are happy now, others are not. The devs need to find a way to meet a medium and keep both hroups of players happy ( BIS and your casual playerbase).



    I run a 25k dc on console, and to be honest am completely bored with the grind of MEd and Lomm. As a dps I'm not expecting to get into TOMM when it comes up live on console due to the imbalance in classes. So will run my new dailies till i get the companion gear I'm looking for and then will take a break.



    Tomm is great for BIS and I dont want that taken away, but something else should have been put out for the other masses other than the daily grind.

    the amount completing is not as important as the amount attempting it. content like this is great because it actually encourages more people to work on becoming bis. with what we have before tomm there is no need to be bis. you could do lomm with all r10's. imo making people actually work for a win is great news too. because like mentioned above. people won't get bored so easily. Every dungeon in the past has been at least SOME learning curve. a week or so of practice before you completed it. Lomm was basically one run to learn. it's stoopid easy. this is a lot harder than anything we've had before and that's ok because it's something to actually do. Right now I can't really be bothered to run lomm because it's freaking boring. no one is running tong or codg. (no one can run codg it seems like) so all I'm doing in game is trading and 12 me's a day. I do wonder what I'm doing playing still because I'm not really playing. I think it was a good use of resources and I think it will energize the game. because trickle down economics.


  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    @thefiresidecat

    I agree. I don't think the devs are looking at completion rate as much as attempt rate. The more attempts means players are engaged in the game and spending more time on the game.
    I haven't been a fan of a lot of the decisions the devs have made lately, but I do hope it improves the game in the long run, as I enjoy the game and want to see it succeed.
  • akemnosakemnos Member Posts: 597 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    akemnos said:

    hrakh said:

    I have no comments on the OP's post at this time, agree in part, disagree in part, but not reached a point where I can comment coherently..

    I do however have one small comment concerning quite a few of the replies focussed on TOMM:

    Volume matters. Of course TOMM has not yet reached a point where there is a lot of volume yet, but it would be nice if we could stop treating a couple of non-meta successes as being applicable to the greater whole. You don't refer to them as non-meta for nothing.

    I am happy to know that there are people that can do TOMM on a DPS Warlock, I am happy to know that non-meta groups can complete it. Its good news, but until as many Archery Rangers, DPS Clerics or DPS Barbarians have finished that thing as Wizards Rogues or melee Rangers have.. Balance is still obviously an issue.

    Yes I know most of you agree with that premise (at least somewhat..archery ranger may be a stretch :) ), but I would very much like for Cryptic to not get distracted by a screenshot or other anecdotes and then decide "oh all is well". I want them to stay focused on the big, seriously skewed, picture. Yes, I also know that that is a very paranoid attitude. But I am not willing to pretend to have much trust left here. Yet, I have hope and I'd like to keep it for a little longer.

    Yeah, of course.

    They should have the numbers. Just look at the numbers of people completing, damage dealt and all of that. And adjust.

    I just mentioned that screenshot because it looks ironical to me that a run intended to gather some kind of prove of balance between classes choses to run with only 2 different classes as dps.
    Except the screenshot they showed had nothing to do with a discussion about dps classes. It was directly referencing a post stating that a Pally was required for the trial. The screenshot showed very nicely that it is not required.

    Everyone knows about the issues with the dps classes. It has been discussed to death and everyone, including the people, who are running TOMM, has agreed that those classes need to have their damage ratios fixed to be inline with the others.

    I am not sure why everyone is going around complaining so much about TOMM with a stick up their HAMSTER. It is not the first time content has been released for a specific group. This happened just recently with whatever mod was IA. This mod had absolutely nothing of value for anyone who already was or near BIS. What was available? a rank 14 enchantment and gear that you had to jump through hoops to get that was worse than your current gear? While there was some complaints then i dont remember nearly the same volume as their is now. If you cant get into TOMM then work your way there so you can do it. These so called "Evil loot selling testers who are only in it for themselves" have provided us with multiple guides and videos showing us exactly how to run the trial successfully.

    Maybe instead of continually bashing these people we should maybe thank them for helping to make sure we actually have a working trial. Or i guess instead we could have a trial where you just queued with 10 people running Xuna and basically have the trail autocompleted for you.....


    NOTE: I am currently not able to run the trial and have not set foot in it.

    Thats exaclty wht I find ironic. I was the one that opened the post that motivated that run to "prove" me wrong.

    I now that the topic of that post was not ONLY dps class balance, but it was mentioned on the first message.

    And I imagine the party gathering for that run:

    _ Ey, let´s show that Paula how wrong she is, let´s make a run with only one healer so she can´t complain anymore.
    - Great idea! what DPS do we use?
    - All wizzards and rogues and rangers, of course... if not we are not finishing it.
    - YAY! let´s shut up that b****.

    facepalm!


    Wow, that is some imagination. I don't know you or any of the testers personally. i know some of them tangentially through some discord channels but i have a hard time "imagining" that they specifically got 10 people together to "shut up that b****."

    Maybe there is some massive personal beef between you and some of them, i dont know as i usually dont pay any attention to streams, but how about we stick to facts instead of insinuated personal attacks against people.

    edit -edit for clarification as i didn't realize Paula was poster and not the original thread started.
  • nigantarnigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    tbh....i dont know who "paula" is ;)
    why we did a "solo-heal-dc-run": there was no heal-pally online - that´s it
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    akemnos said:

    akemnos said:

    hrakh said:

    I have no comments on the OP's post at this time, agree in part, disagree in part, but not reached a point where I can comment coherently..

    I do however have one small comment concerning quite a few of the replies focussed on TOMM:

    Volume matters. Of course TOMM has not yet reached a point where there is a lot of volume yet, but it would be nice if we could stop treating a couple of non-meta successes as being applicable to the greater whole. You don't refer to them as non-meta for nothing.

    I am happy to know that there are people that can do TOMM on a DPS Warlock, I am happy to know that non-meta groups can complete it. Its good news, but until as many Archery Rangers, DPS Clerics or DPS Barbarians have finished that thing as Wizards Rogues or melee Rangers have.. Balance is still obviously an issue.

    Yes I know most of you agree with that premise (at least somewhat..archery ranger may be a stretch :) ), but I would very much like for Cryptic to not get distracted by a screenshot or other anecdotes and then decide "oh all is well". I want them to stay focused on the big, seriously skewed, picture. Yes, I also know that that is a very paranoid attitude. But I am not willing to pretend to have much trust left here. Yet, I have hope and I'd like to keep it for a little longer.

    Yeah, of course.

    They should have the numbers. Just look at the numbers of people completing, damage dealt and all of that. And adjust.

    I just mentioned that screenshot because it looks ironical to me that a run intended to gather some kind of prove of balance between classes choses to run with only 2 different classes as dps.
    Except the screenshot they showed had nothing to do with a discussion about dps classes. It was directly referencing a post stating that a Pally was required for the trial. The screenshot showed very nicely that it is not required.

    Everyone knows about the issues with the dps classes. It has been discussed to death and everyone, including the people, who are running TOMM, has agreed that those classes need to have their damage ratios fixed to be inline with the others.

    I am not sure why everyone is going around complaining so much about TOMM with a stick up their HAMSTER. It is not the first time content has been released for a specific group. This happened just recently with whatever mod was IA. This mod had absolutely nothing of value for anyone who already was or near BIS. What was available? a rank 14 enchantment and gear that you had to jump through hoops to get that was worse than your current gear? While there was some complaints then i dont remember nearly the same volume as their is now. If you cant get into TOMM then work your way there so you can do it. These so called "Evil loot selling testers who are only in it for themselves" have provided us with multiple guides and videos showing us exactly how to run the trial successfully.

    Maybe instead of continually bashing these people we should maybe thank them for helping to make sure we actually have a working trial. Or i guess instead we could have a trial where you just queued with 10 people running Xuna and basically have the trail autocompleted for you.....


    NOTE: I am currently not able to run the trial and have not set foot in it.

    Thats exaclty wht I find ironic. I was the one that opened the post that motivated that run to "prove" me wrong.

    I now that the topic of that post was not ONLY dps class balance, but it was mentioned on the first message.

    And I imagine the party gathering for that run:

    _ Ey, let´s show that Paula how wrong she is, let´s make a run with only one healer so she can´t complain anymore.
    - Great idea! what DPS do we use?
    - All wizzards and rogues and rangers, of course... if not we are not finishing it.
    - YAY! let´s shut up that b****.

    facepalm!


    Wow, that is some imagination. I don't know you or any of the testers personally. i know some of them tangentially through some discord channels but i have a hard time "imagining" that they specifically got 10 people together to "shut up that b****."

    Maybe there is some massive personal beef between you and some of them, i dont know as i usually dont pay any attention to streams, but how about we stick to facts instead of insinuated personal attacks against people.

    edit -edit for clarification as i didn't realize Paula was poster and not the original thread started.
    I was original poster in that other thread that origined that run with one DC. The post was about DC´s and their secondary role as healer and not at all role as dps.

    They totally did that run with only one healer to try to prove I was wrong, perhaps not all of they knew it.

    And I find it very very fun that in a run to prove me wrong about DC being not having a role as DPS all the 7 dps where wizards and rangers.

    They were trying to prove me wrong in the other argument, the secondary role as healer, yeah. But it´s funny that trying to say I´m wrong in one thing they proved me right (to the point that one only run can prove) in the other one.
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    u really think that the whole world is centred around you right?
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    nigantar said:

    tbh....i dont know who "paula" is ;)
    why we did a "solo-heal-dc-run": there was no heal-pally online - that´s it

    tom#6998 said:

    u really think that the whole world is centred around you right?

    ^^^^^
    They did that and then posted the screenshot in the post. I have no doubt. You can think what you want.
  • nigantarnigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    as i said before.....the ToMM run with one dc happened by accident - i should know because i was the dc ;)
  • paulamyo#4926 paulamyo Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    ok, a happy coincidence.

    Yeah, its like the one saying before that if he enters in ToMM with 6 wizards in the party is just a happy coincidence because all his friends are wizards.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 663 Arc User
    Things happen. I have no friends with GWF mains anymore. Coincidence. :D
    - bye bye -
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    edited September 2019

    ok, a happy coincidence.

    Yeah, its like the one saying before that if he enters in ToMM with 6 wizards in the party is just a happy coincidence because all his friends are wizards.

    No, I said the majority of the players in our group play Wizards as a result of that. In case you weren't aware, Tardli plays Rogue, Vigi plays Hunter, Rainer plays Hunter, Sume plays hunter, Chaldo plays Rogue. These are their mains, they cap scrolls on them every week. Incidentally, Tardli also has a GF, GWF and SW. Chaldo also has a GWF, Sume also has an OP and SW. They *also* want to cap scrolls on those toons and since you can do 20 runs in 2 days, its then more efficient to run on alts after that.

    How about you finish the trial before you post about it, you know what they say about uninformed opinions right?
  • xavior44xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User

    akemnos said:

    akemnos said:

    hrakh said:

    I have no comments on the OP's post at this time, agree in part, disagree in part, but not reached a point where I can comment coherently..

    I do however have one small comment concerning quite a few of the replies focussed on TOMM:

    Volume matters. Of course TOMM has not yet reached a point where there is a lot of volume yet, but it would be nice if we could stop treating a couple of non-meta successes as being applicable to the greater whole. You don't refer to them as non-meta for nothing.

    I am happy to know that there are people that can do TOMM on a DPS Warlock, I am happy to know that non-meta groups can complete it. Its good news, but until as many Archery Rangers, DPS Clerics or DPS Barbarians have finished that thing as Wizards Rogues or melee Rangers have.. Balance is still obviously an issue.

    Yes I know most of you agree with that premise (at least somewhat..archery ranger may be a stretch :) ), but I would very much like for Cryptic to not get distracted by a screenshot or other anecdotes and then decide "oh all is well". I want them to stay focused on the big, seriously skewed, picture. Yes, I also know that that is a very paranoid attitude. But I am not willing to pretend to have much trust left here. Yet, I have hope and I'd like to keep it for a little longer.

    Yeah, of course.

    They should have the numbers. Just look at the numbers of people completing, damage dealt and all of that. And adjust.

    I just mentioned that screenshot because it looks ironical to me that a run intended to gather some kind of prove of balance between classes choses to run with only 2 different classes as dps.
    Except the screenshot they showed had nothing to do with a discussion about dps classes. It was directly referencing a post stating that a Pally was required for the trial. The screenshot showed very nicely that it is not required.

    Everyone knows about the issues with the dps classes. It has been discussed to death and everyone, including the people, who are running TOMM, has agreed that those classes need to have their damage ratios fixed to be inline with the others.

    I am not sure why everyone is going around complaining so much about TOMM with a stick up their HAMSTER. It is not the first time content has been released for a specific group. This happened just recently with whatever mod was IA. This mod had absolutely nothing of value for anyone who already was or near BIS. What was available? a rank 14 enchantment and gear that you had to jump through hoops to get that was worse than your current gear? While there was some complaints then i dont remember nearly the same volume as their is now. If you cant get into TOMM then work your way there so you can do it. These so called "Evil loot selling testers who are only in it for themselves" have provided us with multiple guides and videos showing us exactly how to run the trial successfully.

    Maybe instead of continually bashing these people we should maybe thank them for helping to make sure we actually have a working trial. Or i guess instead we could have a trial where you just queued with 10 people running Xuna and basically have the trail autocompleted for you.....


    NOTE: I am currently not able to run the trial and have not set foot in it.

    Thats exaclty wht I find ironic. I was the one that opened the post that motivated that run to "prove" me wrong.

    I now that the topic of that post was not ONLY dps class balance, but it was mentioned on the first message.

    And I imagine the party gathering for that run:

    _ Ey, let´s show that Paula how wrong she is, let´s make a run with only one healer so she can´t complain anymore.
    - Great idea! what DPS do we use?
    - All wizzards and rogues and rangers, of course... if not we are not finishing it.
    - YAY! let´s shut up that b****.

    facepalm!


    Wow, that is some imagination. I don't know you or any of the testers personally. i know some of them tangentially through some discord channels but i have a hard time "imagining" that they specifically got 10 people together to "shut up that b****."

    Maybe there is some massive personal beef between you and some of them, i dont know as i usually dont pay any attention to streams, but how about we stick to facts instead of insinuated personal attacks against people.

    edit -edit for clarification as i didn't realize Paula was poster and not the original thread started.
    I was original poster in that other thread that origined that run with one DC. The post was about DC´s and their secondary role as healer and not at all role as dps.

    They totally did that run with only one healer to try to prove I was wrong, perhaps not all of they knew it.

    And I find it very very fun that in a run to prove me wrong about DC being not having a role as DPS all the 7 dps where wizards and rangers.

    They were trying to prove me wrong in the other argument, the secondary role as healer, yeah. But it´s funny that trying to say I´m wrong in one thing they proved me right (to the point that one only run can prove) in the other one.
    Don't worry they tried doing that to me, only to further prove my point....These players don't even play Neverwinter as we speak.. they are "come and go" players and really spend more time arguing with people about their discord groups opinion then actually playing the game and being helpful to other players. Most of them sell gear for real $ which is why they devote so much time into trying to prove/screw other players over with meta groups etc..
  • viraaalviraaal Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    xavior44 said:


    Don't worry they tried doing that to me, only to further prove my point....These players don't even play Neverwinter as we speak.. they are "come and go" players and really spend more time arguing with people about their discord groups opinion then actually playing the game and being helpful to other players. Most of them sell gear for real $ which is why they devote so much time into trying to prove/screw other players over with meta groups etc..


    Not playing neverwinter, yet as of typing this, you have a group in my discord playing, and the germans playing on Zyandras stream. Whereas me personally, I am playing other games, as If you didnt know, they do exist and I am not bound to only ever playing 1 game for the rest of my life.

    Also you seem to think we are come and go players, whereas most of, if not all of us have exclusively only played this game since module 4, if not earlier. For me personally, the only mod I took a break was m16, and a short one in m13 when I moved from xbox to pc.

    For what its worth, this is my time played on xbox alone*. Quite a lot considering im a come and go player. Also check my forum posts, they date back to module 6 for reference.

    Finally RMT is against ToS. My group, as mentioned in the previous paragraph, play the game a lot. We wouldnt want to be banned, so doing something against ToS is the last thing we would do. I can tell you that I dont do it, and my friends dont. But its my word against what you chose to believe.

    Your doing this to try and get a reaction, and well done. You got me to talk :)

    Edit: Just worked it out, that if the game came out on console on March 31, 2015. Thats 1633 days and with that game time displayed above, it means ive spent around 23% of my existance since that moment on xbox playing that game. And ive been on PC for around 15 months now. Not sure how much time 1 person has to put to a game, but sure sounds like a lot to not be a "come and go player".
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    xavior44 said:

    akemnos said:

    akemnos said:

    hrakh said:

    I have no comments on the OP's post at this time, agree in part, disagree in part, but not reached a point where I can comment coherently..

    I do however have one small comment concerning quite a few of the replies focussed on TOMM:

    Volume matters. Of course TOMM has not yet reached a point where there is a lot of volume yet, but it would be nice if we could stop treating a couple of non-meta successes as being applicable to the greater whole. You don't refer to them as non-meta for nothing.

    I am happy to know that there are people that can do TOMM on a DPS Warlock, I am happy to know that non-meta groups can complete it. Its good news, but until as many Archery Rangers, DPS Clerics or DPS Barbarians have finished that thing as Wizards Rogues or melee Rangers have.. Balance is still obviously an issue.

    Yes I know most of you agree with that premise (at least somewhat..archery ranger may be a stretch :) ), but I would very much like for Cryptic to not get distracted by a screenshot or other anecdotes and then decide "oh all is well". I want them to stay focused on the big, seriously skewed, picture. Yes, I also know that that is a very paranoid attitude. But I am not willing to pretend to have much trust left here. Yet, I have hope and I'd like to keep it for a little longer.

    Yeah, of course.

    They should have the numbers. Just look at the numbers of people completing, damage dealt and all of that. And adjust.

    I just mentioned that screenshot because it looks ironical to me that a run intended to gather some kind of prove of balance between classes choses to run with only 2 different classes as dps.
    Except the screenshot they showed had nothing to do with a discussion about dps classes. It was directly referencing a post stating that a Pally was required for the trial. The screenshot showed very nicely that it is not required.

    Everyone knows about the issues with the dps classes. It has been discussed to death and everyone, including the people, who are running TOMM, has agreed that those classes need to have their damage ratios fixed to be inline with the others.

    I am not sure why everyone is going around complaining so much about TOMM with a stick up their HAMSTER. It is not the first time content has been released for a specific group. This happened just recently with whatever mod was IA. This mod had absolutely nothing of value for anyone who already was or near BIS. What was available? a rank 14 enchantment and gear that you had to jump through hoops to get that was worse than your current gear? While there was some complaints then i dont remember nearly the same volume as their is now. If you cant get into TOMM then work your way there so you can do it. These so called "Evil loot selling testers who are only in it for themselves" have provided us with multiple guides and videos showing us exactly how to run the trial successfully.

    Maybe instead of continually bashing these people we should maybe thank them for helping to make sure we actually have a working trial. Or i guess instead we could have a trial where you just queued with 10 people running Xuna and basically have the trail autocompleted for you.....


    NOTE: I am currently not able to run the trial and have not set foot in it.

    Thats exaclty wht I find ironic. I was the one that opened the post that motivated that run to "prove" me wrong.

    I now that the topic of that post was not ONLY dps class balance, but it was mentioned on the first message.

    And I imagine the party gathering for that run:

    _ Ey, let´s show that Paula how wrong she is, let´s make a run with only one healer so she can´t complain anymore.
    - Great idea! what DPS do we use?
    - All wizzards and rogues and rangers, of course... if not we are not finishing it.
    - YAY! let´s shut up that b****.

    facepalm!


    Wow, that is some imagination. I don't know you or any of the testers personally. i know some of them tangentially through some discord channels but i have a hard time "imagining" that they specifically got 10 people together to "shut up that b****."

    Maybe there is some massive personal beef between you and some of them, i dont know as i usually dont pay any attention to streams, but how about we stick to facts instead of insinuated personal attacks against people.

    edit -edit for clarification as i didn't realize Paula was poster and not the original thread started.
    I was original poster in that other thread that origined that run with one DC. The post was about DC´s and their secondary role as healer and not at all role as dps.

    They totally did that run with only one healer to try to prove I was wrong, perhaps not all of they knew it.

    And I find it very very fun that in a run to prove me wrong about DC being not having a role as DPS all the 7 dps where wizards and rangers.

    They were trying to prove me wrong in the other argument, the secondary role as healer, yeah. But it´s funny that trying to say I´m wrong in one thing they proved me right (to the point that one only run can prove) in the other one.
    Don't worry they tried doing that to me, only to further prove my point....These players don't even play Neverwinter as we speak.. they are "come and go" players and really spend more time arguing with people about their discord groups opinion then actually playing the game and being helpful to other players. Most of them sell gear for real $ which is why they devote so much time into trying to prove/screw other players over with meta groups etc..
    here it goes again, i guess u will never get over it right? I wonder how much jealousy can one human beeing have.
  • xavior44xavior44 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    viraaal said:

    xavior44 said:


    Don't worry they tried doing that to me, only to further prove my point....These players don't even play Neverwinter as we speak.. they are "come and go" players and really spend more time arguing with people about their discord groups opinion then actually playing the game and being helpful to other players. Most of them sell gear for real $ which is why they devote so much time into trying to prove/screw other players over with meta groups etc..


    Not playing neverwinter, yet as of typing this, you have a group in my discord playing, and the germans playing on Zyandras stream. Whereas me personally, I am playing other games, as If you didnt know, they do exist and I am not bound to only ever playing 1 game for the rest of my life.

    Also you seem to think we are come and go players, whereas most of, if not all of us have exclusively only played this game since module 4, if not earlier. For me personally, the only mod I took a break was m16, and a short one in m13 when I moved from xbox to pc.

    For what its worth, this is my time played on xbox alone*. Quite a lot considering im a come and go player. Also check my forum posts, they date back to module 6 for reference.

    Finally RMT is against ToS. My group, as mentioned in the previous paragraph, play the game a lot. We wouldnt want to be banned, so doing something against ToS is the last thing we would do. I can tell you that I dont do it, and my friends dont. But its my word against what you chose to believe.

    Your doing this to try and get a reaction, and well done. You got me to talk :)

    Edit: Just worked it out, that if the game came out on console on March 31, 2015. Thats 1633 days and with that game time displayed above, it means ive spent around 23% of my existance since that moment on xbox playing that game. And ive been on PC for around 15 months now. Not sure how much time 1 person has to put to a game, but sure sounds like a lot to not be a "come and go player".
    Not everything is about you so stop assuming every post is , and the past does not represent the present :)
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User
    sobi#1980 said:

    rikitaki said:

    And that is what the devs have to realise: They do not have homogeneous player-base, on the contrary, once in a while they should drop a candy do every segment of a game.

    Devs can solve this problem by making different level of difficulty for new content, we asked for it since years. Doing this, each MOD, everybody, and every kind of player will have something new to play, try to beat a harder difficulty level each time. Win - win situation for everybody
    The only issue i see is the progression dying in the game. You start as nobody, you build your character and get the Bis gear to do the end game dungeons. If then people with no gear are able to choose casual difficulty and run the same content with lower gear/difficulty, requiring less effort and resources and still getting the same rewards, then that there is an issue.

    Alternatively, to make the above possible without being illogical, they could give certain difficulties to some dungeons. For example LOMM could have a lowest difficulty catering to someone with 90k power minimum. Eventhough, you see enough people running with lower power than that, but they almost always get carried. However, the rewards have to be lower otherwise it becomes unfair. But i still think that the issue with TOMM is not this, in fact the casual players would still hate the dungeon as there is a single boss, and if he didn't aoe one shot you without you knowing the mechanics because the difficulty is set to low, then most casual players will bore out of it pretty fast. Most casual players i know just want trash trash trash and they want to see those juicy crit numbers float.

    But something like TOMM must stay top difficulty or maybe add another setting for non-dps classes to be able to play TOMM at lower difficulty but keep the rewards the same since they are lower in dps anyway.

    But it's a big no no for a progression based game to simply allow all content to be playable by all the playerbase. Where is the sense of progression when you can do any dungeon with any gear? Can we then say that we need the gear at all?

    In fact, elitism encourages skill over anything else but then the gear system needs to vanish but there is loophole even in this situation. Assume for a second, that the devs remove the gear/ilvl altogether and release a dungeon TOMM 2 for a certain skilled lvl players. Do you think the casual players with lower gears will like that? In fact, they'll hate it even more as now they can't compensate for their lack of skills through the gear which at least they could earn through the grind and playing casually, that they actually love doing.

    The current system is benefiting every type of person. If you prefer a grindy game, well good luck you got just that. If you hate the grind because you work and study then you have the ZAX and Zen store. If you love difficult content that requires skill and gear, then you have TOMM. If you love content that requires less skill and less gear, you have LOMM. If you love content that requires no skill, you have lots of dungeons and if you love content that requires less gear but skill, then you have CR, CODG, TONG etc. The addition of TOMM was aimed at those that wanted a reward for obtaining Bis gear and requiring skill for the dungeon i.e. elitists and the game had yet to cater for them.

    I congratulate the Dev's for making this decision and it was utmost wise of them to cater to this small population that had been overlooked for years.
    LMAO...most dps are using gear from mod 9-14. Say whatever you want but its true.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    I would suggest not making this a competition of who has the highest /played, not only because it is not constructive and doesn't mean anything (both in terms of adding to the argument and in the general sense), but because I am pretty much certain you will lose -- to every single person in my group.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 663 Arc User
    edited September 2019
    Oh good god, haven't you all stroked your own egos enough already... Angry-4-year-old lvls.
    Post edited by jules#6770 on
    - bye bye -
  • polaris1986polaris1986 Member Posts: 320 Arc User
    How can you ask about a more challening game when the last trial is challenging ? I can't understand this...


    more challenging is to get right gear for ToMM. I mean, leg insignias, companions and other things.
    "sometimes the world doesn't need another hero, sometimes what it needs is a monster"

  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    Or can we all stop with the personal attacks, and just discuss the issues that the OP had posted and those concerns?

    Without trying to put any group in the crosshairs. We all have different thoughts and opinions are where the game is and where it should be going and why.

    Keep the topic on hand, and lay off the attacks please.
  • nigantarnigantar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 28 Arc User
    rly?
This discussion has been closed.