arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I seem to recall most of the M16 closed beta testers were not happy with a lot of the changes, especially with scaling and old content. If anything that shows the developers were not heavily relying on their feedback.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
The experience in my guild, that I have seen, is that fewer people have been logging in, because they are bored out of their minds with nothing to do except endless ME's all day. "Well, why not try TOMM?" To do TOMM you need very expensive gear even to get to the 24k mark. Is it even possible to get to 24k with only blue/purple insignia, purple companions only, purple mount only, and max rank 13 enchants? Those last few steps to get the legendary mount/insignia/companions/enchants are very very expensive.
But what irritates me the most about how Mod 16/17 shook out, is the apparent blurred lines between the devs and some of the elites. The devs invited a number of elite players to trial test Mod 16, designed basically a brand new game based heavily on their feedback, tuned the damage of TOMM based on their input, and - lo and behold - it's many of those very same elite players who are benefitting the most from this brand new game. We would all scream foul if Asterdahl or some other dev were to use his inside knowledge of the game to play the game and manipulate it for his benefit in-game. And yet there is the appearance of a bunch of mini-Asterdahl's doing the same thing right now in the game. It smells fishy, and the devs should do a better job separating the game players from the game developers.
Lets count, by names who are those many players, out of the 20 finished, and the more that trying, who were privately invited? And lets hear since when preview is closed to anyone on PC?
I am referring to the Mod 16 trial testers.
What mod16 trial testers...There was no trial, and what special communication was there? You can read all about the great communication there... Also again, not the same people, not on players side (mod16 and mod17, different test group except 2? people), not the same devs who responsible for the closed beta on both mods.
Fine, the beta testers if you wish.
And I didn't even know until now that there was a secret mod17 group too. Gee, what a surprise.
Why somehow everything that happens in the game is a secret to you, closed beta, people were invited. Was a forum post, was discussed on streams, on discords.
Yes what a surprise, that the company trying to get things better, and using free QA. Easier to yell "secret communication" than get involved..
The first point I want to make is that ToMM is to easy; it needs to be adjusted to be harder. The fact that player are able to beat it early in its release as a hard/challenging trial tells me that the developers need to up it a bit more. We shouldn't be able to beat it yet. It should take gear from mod 18 to beat it. Maybe one group beats it one time or two but not 20 runs now on live. That to me tells me the difficulty still needs to be upped a bit.
Next, I want to discuss the issue of roles, not classes. In 10 man content you typically get 2 healers, 2 tanks and 6 damage dealers. If groups are able to beat it with one healer, as sharp pointed out, that means the group is damage dealer heavy and with the current imbalance for classes it causes further issues for player who don't play one of the top damage dealing classes. This goes back to my first point the content is to easy as it can be beaten with one healer. Therefore the content should be adjusted to ensure groups are taking 2 healers. In fact, I believe the hardest trial should require 3 healers and 3 tanks but that is something we discuss another time.
As for the non top damage dealing classes being able to play as a support role, see my point on roles where group can already complete the new trial with one healer and that most group makeup is 2 healer, 2 tanks and 6 damage dealers. The standard group makeup should have room for the any of the damage dealer class and all class should have the capability to produce similar damage given that there are more damage dealer spots do to mod 16 changes for group composition.
IMO, if the wizard, rogue and ranger all produce damage similar to a cleric, fighter or barbarian I believe that there would be less completed ToMM runs and some player would be asking for damage buffs because someone already did in the post where the developers stated that warlock, wizard, rogue and ranger were all over producing and needed to be fixed.
With all of this said I'm firm in belief that ToMM should be removed until the devs can fix the classes a bit; at least the underlining issue that is making Cleric, Fighter and Barbarian under perform. As for the warlock, that class needs some buffs.
I play an end game wizard that can easily get into ToMM but I wont' step foot into ToMM until its fair for all end game damage dealers.
So please enlighten us, how you can say "ToMM is actually !too easy!" if only two groups actually finished it?
Are you a professional Fortunenteller?
You did the same testing as a few mods ago with Tiger and Dancing Shield??
Yeah i know i know you will response now, this groups had "secret Insight" or "Secret Weapons of Mass Destructions" given from the devs like /giveall /killallenemys or things like that...
Wake up this is not Doom or Quake where you are maybe in need of this Commands if your aim is bad, can't strafe nor Rocket Jump...
But btt
Why are only a few people actually able to do it?
Again and again and again you will hear the same answer....
They are the most actives one, practicing on the preview server the mechanics, looking how to build and gear up the chars properly...
And this costs time, sweat and nerves...
In my case, my char on preview (can't run it on live, bc i am way too short on ressources), Yuna and me spend 2 or more hours together to "minmaxing" it.
Just to give you some firsthand Informations.
Do we have on Pc some advantages to the console players?
Yes for sure
But are these informations shared, how to build up the chars, from these peoples (espaicelly Sharps group did with the guide, streams from both groups, vids on yt..)
Watch it (and i mean everyone, who thinks there is smth "fishy" about it), and you will notice the "secret" behind it..
Hard training and teamplay
Nothing more, nothing less...
P.S.
Even if i am not part of both groups, it starts going on my nerves to read everywhere discord, reddit, forum this .....(insert random swearing word here).
Its not that Clerics are bad its just that Wizards do to much damage.
Bite your tongue.
There was this DC who outdpsed my Arcanist in MOD16. You should see how a real DPS dc looks like. Also, I don't expect a traditional healer role to do more damage than someone who literally casts lightning from thin air. Maybe only to the undead, cause of lore, but even that is a big if and why.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
The experience in my guild, that I have seen, is that fewer people have been logging in, because they are bored out of their minds with nothing to do except endless ME's all day. "Well, why not try TOMM?" To do TOMM you need very expensive gear even to get to the 24k mark. Is it even possible to get to 24k with only blue/purple insignia, purple companions only, purple mount only, and max rank 13 enchants? Those last few steps to get the legendary mount/insignia/companions/enchants are very very expensive.
But what irritates me the most about how Mod 16/17 shook out, is the apparent blurred lines between the devs and some of the elites. The devs invited a number of elite players to trial test Mod 16, designed basically a brand new game based heavily on their feedback, tuned the damage of TOMM based on their input, and - lo and behold - it's many of those very same elite players who are benefitting the most from this brand new game. We would all scream foul if Asterdahl or some other dev were to use his inside knowledge of the game to play the game and manipulate it for his benefit in-game. And yet there is the appearance of a bunch of mini-Asterdahl's doing the same thing right now in the game. It smells fishy, and the devs should do a better job separating the game players from the game developers.
Lets count, by names who are those many players, out of the 20 finished, and the more that trying, who were privately invited? And lets hear since when preview is closed to anyone on PC?
I am referring to the Mod 16 trial testers.
What mod16 trial testers...There was no trial, and what special communication was there? You can read all about the great communication there... Also again, not the same people, not on players side (mod16 and mod17, different test group except 2? people), not the same devs who responsible for the closed beta on both mods.
Fine, the beta testers if you wish.
And I didn't even know until now that there was a secret mod17 group too. Gee, what a surprise.
Why somehow everything that happens in the game is a secret to you, closed beta, people were invited. Was a forum post, was discussed on streams, on discords.
Yes what a surprise, that the company trying to get things better, and using free QA. Easier to yell "secret communication" than get involved..
I honestly didn't know that there were public calls for beta testers for Mod 17. I don't read the forums every day anymore. And in this particular case it wouldn't have mattered, because *even on preview server* I doubt I would have been able to reach 24k IL on any of my chars. But you have to admit the Mod 16 beta testing procedure was absolutely a private, secretive process. There was not even an opportunity for me to get involved in that process.
And I understand, you as a guild leader are going to defend your guild and your guildies no matter what. You wouldn't command a lot of respect in your guild as a leader if you threw your guildies under the bus whenever anyone posted something mean about them on the forums. I get that. But please try to look at it from my point of view. This massive rearrangement and rewrite of the game occurs, in secret, and the result is that it *just so happens* to favor some classes over others. And it *just so happens* that the classes favored by many of the testers are the ones that are the top classes now. And it *just so happens* that this big massive bug on how buffs are calculated went completely undetected until right before the new trial was going to be launched. It all seems a bit fishy.
I don't really blame the elite players though. I blame the devs, for outsourcing their development work to players. They should not ask players to do their jobs for them.
I seem to recall most of the M16 closed beta testers were not happy with a lot of the changes, especially with scaling and old content. If anything that shows the developers were not heavily relying on their feedback.
What mod16 trial testers...There was no trial, and what special communication was there? You can read all about the great communication there... Also again, not the same people, not on players side (mod16 and mod17, different test group except 2? people), not the same devs who responsible for the closed beta on both mods.
Getting dev team attention was the trial in itself.
Unfortunately, nobody had any aggro and thus the trial was impossible to complete.
Why somehow everything that happens in the game is a secret to you, closed beta, people were invited. Was a forum post, was discussed on streams, on discords.
You did the same testing as a few mods ago with Tiger and Dancing Shield??
Yeah, he still hasn't explained to us how using a Dancing Shield helped him figure out how good the Tiger was back when PC had Mod 13 and consoles only 12.5...
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited August 2019
You still don't get it don't you.
Not my guildies.
How you can't get any item level on preview?
That post actually about how buffs work, is by my guildie who mains dps GF... He shouldn't have find it? He had exams, but where were you btw? Why you didn't find about it at m16 back then on preview...
What is the situation with HR? SW?
It just happens that you have no clue what you talk about it, most of it simply nonsense, and not true, that's the problem.
One dev did X classes, dev 2 did classes Y, they work differently, what do you want from the players who do ToMM? Or from the players in the beta test? Now the players supposed to do the devs job and provide free and full QA for their work? This is exactly what you ask for. They made a design difference, a player found it, who is actually my guildie, and you complain about what? That he didn't do it earlier? Or he was supposed to do it later? That other players didn't test those classes because they don't play them? Or that some players adapted?
Make a list of who played what, who plays what, and who was in what beta, then come back with these idiotic tin foil hat nonsense. Remind me why some were very pissed about how the beta went, and some how most of the feedback received.
"rewrite in secret" - mod 16 was a while on preview, you had the same opportunity to provide feedback for any class as anyone else. You have no clue about what and how the closed beta went, but you still spew nonsense about it. You don't read the forums, you do not test, you don't do anything, you don't know anything about what is going on, yet you are very good about these conclusions, tell me the earth is also flat and we didn't land on the moon? There was this council of players, conveyed in secret where players were asked to decide which classes will live and which will die, bones were thrown, children sacrificed, barbarian was deemed unworthy.
I honestly didn't know that there were public calls for beta testers for Mod 17. I don't read the forums every day anymore. And in this particular case it wouldn't have mattered, because *even on preview server* I doubt I would have been able to reach 24k IL on any of my chars. But you have to admit the Mod 16 beta testing procedure was absolutely a private, secretive process. There was not even an opportunity for me to get involved in that process.
How long it was in open beta? Where you could get involved at any time and make any suggestions you want. Where are your specific class suggestions? And do you know what happened in that closed beta 'secretive' process?
And I understand, you as a guild leader are going to defend your guild and your guildies no matter what. You wouldn't command a lot of respect in your guild as a leader if you threw your guildies under the bus whenever anyone posted something mean about them on the forums. I get that.
What the hell are you talking about... Not My Guildies. Wait? So you expect your guild leader to jump in any time now? Or you will command less respect to them? lol.
and the result is that it *just so happens* to favor some classes over others.
Just so happen, explain to me how someone who mains SW, practically quit the game over the changes and how their feedback was 'recieved' Explain to me why one of the testers who mained HR quit for the similar reason? But is playing the trial now, on the cheapest thing to gear, which is not his main playing before.
Tell me about how Rogue feedback was received, please do, waiting to hear all about it.
And it *just so happens* that the classes favored by many of the testers are the ones that are the top classes now.
Really? Who are the many testers who favor which classes, and which on top? Or lets assume a scenario where one tester spent hours testing and found most of the issues in a class, while other classes didn't have anyone testing them, because you choose not to check your class in open beta, means that the tester that did a good job is at fault for any issues?
And it *just so happens* that this big massive bug on how buffs are calculated went completely undetected until right before the new trial was going to be launched. It all seems a bit fishy.
Shocking! A BUG IN NW! Can't be! Fishy indeed!!! Class balance issue in NW??! Can't be! Where were you with the fishiness when GWF was the top dog and other classes were not. How is that class balance wasn't fishy back then? Where where your conspiracy theory about the TR changes in mod 15?
I don't really blame the elite players though. I blame the devs, for outsourcing their development work to players. They should not ask players to do their jobs for them.
But you do exactly that, you blame players. You always do. Specific players. Or more correctly, everyone who you perceive as a better player. They must be self serving elitists, in their filthy ivory towers, because they accomplished something you didn't. There is no other explanation to this.
> @c1k4ml3kc3 said: > (Quote) > I think you're the guy who has like 50000 gold rings from TOMM on AH, no? And each of them was different, too! > > Share your secrets. > > Or, better yet, send me one, I need it to inspect how it looks on my Wizzy.
im doing all the selling for m group since we do split runs, so when u see what ive listed on the AH its the loot from 10 people. Thats prolly not the secret u were hoping for tough.
> I think you're the guy who has like 50000 gold rings from TOMM on AH, no? And each of them was different, too!
>
> Share your secrets.
>
> Or, better yet, send me one, I need it to inspect how it looks on my Wizzy.
im doing all the selling for m group since we do split runs, so when u see what ive listed on the AH its the loot from 10 people. Thats prolly not the secret u were hoping for tough.
Figures as much, we did that back in DK runs. Though a lot of people were curious because each ring was a different one. What are the chances?
Salute.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Preview is opened to everyone, you can go check stuff out too...
The alpha testers (aka secret group) those people will take advantage because they have knowlege months before you do (some of them might already be testing mod 18), HAMSTER go watch some streams before mod 16 dropped and you will see their bags/banks full of useless stuff (at that time) and them saying ''oh is just some trash i have on me'' but when the mod was announced all that ''trash'' went up in demand and prices.
tomm was made for end game players.. well end game players on certain classes
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
Preview is opened to everyone, you can go check stuff out too...
The alpha testers (aka secret group) those people will take advantage because they have knowlege months before you do (some of them might already be testing mod 18), HAMSTER go watch some streams before mod 16 dropped and you will see their bags/banks full of useless stuff (at that time) and them saying ''oh is just some trash i have on me'' but when the mod was announced all that ''trash'' went up in demand and prices.
tomm was made for end game players.. well end game players on certain classes
Bring your grievances against who ever you think that did whatever you think they did. But so you know that there were what? 15 people in m16 beta, and about the same m17. I'm sure everyone sat all day filling their bags with whatever.
Second thing, I have ~30 storage chars, full with HAMSTER, some of it before you started playing. So now what? Just for example, I have ~30 Batiri, bought at I don't know, 20 AD, now their are 20k AD. What secret preview knowledge lead to this?? Or perhaps when they were worthless, and the patch notes said they will reduce the drop rate, someone did 1 + 1 and bought a bunch just in case...
Have issue with a class, good, I have many issues with most classes, bring it to the devs. Better do it while things on preview though, there, there is the minuscule chance that someone, maybe, when the stars align, will read it.
Preview is opened to everyone, you can go check stuff out too...
The alpha testers (aka secret group) those people will take advantage because they have knowlege months before you do (some of them might already be testing mod 18), HAMSTER go watch some streams before mod 16 dropped and you will see their bags/banks full of useless stuff (at that time) and them saying ''oh is just some trash i have on me'' but when the mod was announced all that ''trash'' went up in demand and prices.
tomm was made for end game players.. well end game players on certain classes
Bring your grievances against who ever you think that did whatever you think they did. But so you know that there were what? 15 people in m16 beta, and about the same m17. I'm sure everyone sat all day filling their bags with whatever.
Second thing, I have ~30 storage chars, full with HAMSTER, some of it before you started playing. So now what? Just for example, I have ~30 Batiri, bought at I don't know, 20 AD, now their are 20k AD. What secret preview knowledge lead to this?? Or perhaps when they were worthless, and the patch notes said they will reduce the drop rate, someone did 1 + 1 and bought a bunch just in case...
Have issue with a class, good, I have many issues with most classes, bring it to the devs. Better do it while things on preview though, there, there is the minuscule chance that someone, maybe, when the stars align, will read it.
Mist have hit a nerve lol...
Well if they did or not i don't know, but you would be pretty stupid to let a chance to make millions go tbh...
The problem i have with these people (i won't sat names but if you want go check the livestreams from all the players) they were talking openly about this stuff on live streams.
Before mod 16 announcement they were like ''oh all that stuff is just trash i have to get rid off''. As soon as the announce mod 16 they go ''oh when i saw the changes while alpha testing i started stocking all this stuff you see in my bag i'm all about that ad hehe'' (bare in mind these are some of the same people players were recomending to the partnership program)
And about classes why even bother, they don't give a HAMSTER, just look at the 1000's of posts ... I just said that my highest lvl class can't get into it unless i play has a healer.
And i would also like to know when did you start playing because i've been here since day 1 (well this acc was only created in 2014 but not my first one), oh i know, you must have a lot of stuff from beta
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
It is all ready through some thick heads that generalizing by race, gender, nationality, etc, is not correct.. Now if only one step further will happen...
The problem i have with these people (i won't sat names but if you want go check the livestreams from all the players) they were talking openly about this stuff on live streams.
Before mod 16 announcement they were like ''oh all that stuff is just trash i have to get rid off''. As soon as the announce mod 16 they go ''oh when i saw the changes while alpha testing i started stocking all this stuff you see in my bag i'm all about that ad hehe'' (bare in mind these are some of the same people players were recomending to the partnership program)
Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? Or you just assumed because one person, for example, did something, and you would have done the same, then everyone obviously did something? And this is without going into if it's wrong to begin with.
And about classes why even bother, they don't give a HAMSTER, just look at the 1000's of posts ... I just said that my highest lvl class can't get into it unless i play has a healer.
Some people here think that if someone is in the closed beta, the devs must have set there and only waited for their divine word and commands. Which is absurd. On the other hand, I agree about the balance itself, and not only agree, but IMO the devs should have put more effort and time into making classes more equal, on a more rapid but small, delicate changes especially with the main roles of those classes before the change in m16
And i would also like to know when did you start playing because i've been here since day 1 (well this acc was only created in 2014 but not my first one), oh i know, you must have a lot of stuff from beta
Seriously.. I've used it as an example as your forum account shows "Joined August 2015"
Then lets do it another way, "If you had saved/hoarded various HAMSTER you could have had crapton of storage alts with things that may be of value on different occasions.."
This is really not to emphasize the specific "you" here..
It is all ready through some thick heads that generalizing by race, gender, nationality, etc, is not correct.. Now if only one step further will happen...
The problem i have with these people (i won't sat names but if you want go check the livestreams from all the players) they were talking openly about this stuff on live streams.
Before mod 16 announcement they were like ''oh all that stuff is just trash i have to get rid off''. As soon as the announce mod 16 they go ''oh when i saw the changes while alpha testing i started stocking all this stuff you see in my bag i'm all about that ad hehe'' (bare in mind these are some of the same people players were recomending to the partnership program)
Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? Or you just assumed because one person, for example, did something, and you would have done the same, then everyone obviously did something? And this is without going into if it's wrong to begin with.
And about classes why even bother, they don't give a HAMSTER, just look at the 1000's of posts ... I just said that my highest lvl class can't get into it unless i play has a healer.
Some people here think that if someone is in the closed beta, the devs must have set there and only waited for their divine word and commands. Which is absurd. On the other hand, I agree about the balance itself, and not only agree, but IMO the devs should have put more effort and time into making classes more equal, on a more rapid but small, delicate changes especially with the main roles of those classes before the change in m16
And i would also like to know when did you start playing because i've been here since day 1 (well this acc was only created in 2014 but not my first one), oh i know, you must have a lot of stuff from beta
Seriously.. I've used it as an example as your forum account shows "Joined August 2015"
Then lets do it another way, "If you had saved/hoarded various HAMSTER you could have had crapton of storage alts with things that may be of value on different occasions.."
This is really not to emphasize the specific "you" here..
and yet you really are buthurt, why? if you didn't do what i said why are you so mad? just ignore it even if it generalises players not race, gender, nationality do not try to make this something it is not, tired of people like you.
''Or you are just envy that others had the opportunity and you didn't, as you would have done so in their place?'' ''Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? ''
Again i couldn't care less but its not good for the game /company itself if certain, lets say influencers, go alpha test then say on stream the took advantage of that to make ad or change the economy of the game, just think a bit, just once if you were a new player and heard that HAMSTER what would you do
And i do have a lot of HAMSTER laying around, i just don'tgo livestream saying i took advantage of yet to be known knowledge to my advantage.
BUT yet again.. why are you so mad if you have nothing to worry about??
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
It is all ready through some thick heads that generalizing by race, gender, nationality, etc, is not correct.. Now if only one step further will happen...
The problem i have with these people (i won't sat names but if you want go check the livestreams from all the players) they were talking openly about this stuff on live streams.
Before mod 16 announcement they were like ''oh all that stuff is just trash i have to get rid off''. As soon as the announce mod 16 they go ''oh when i saw the changes while alpha testing i started stocking all this stuff you see in my bag i'm all about that ad hehe'' (bare in mind these are some of the same people players were recomending to the partnership program)
Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? Or you just assumed because one person, for example, did something, and you would have done the same, then everyone obviously did something? And this is without going into if it's wrong to begin with.
And about classes why even bother, they don't give a HAMSTER, just look at the 1000's of posts ... I just said that my highest lvl class can't get into it unless i play has a healer.
Some people here think that if someone is in the closed beta, the devs must have set there and only waited for their divine word and commands. Which is absurd. On the other hand, I agree about the balance itself, and not only agree, but IMO the devs should have put more effort and time into making classes more equal, on a more rapid but small, delicate changes especially with the main roles of those classes before the change in m16
And i would also like to know when did you start playing because i've been here since day 1 (well this acc was only created in 2014 but not my first one), oh i know, you must have a lot of stuff from beta
Seriously.. I've used it as an example as your forum account shows "Joined August 2015"
Then lets do it another way, "If you had saved/hoarded various HAMSTER you could have had crapton of storage alts with things that may be of value on different occasions.."
This is really not to emphasize the specific "you" here..
and yet you really are buthurt, why? if you didn't do what i said why are you so mad? just ignore it even if it generalises players not race, gender, nationality do not try to make this something it is not, tired of people like you.
''Or you are just envy that others had the opportunity and you didn't, as you would have done so in their place?'' ''Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? ''
Again i couldn't care less but its not good for the game /company itself if certain, lets say influencers, go alpha test then say on stream the took advantage of that to make ad or change the economy of the game, just think a bit, just once if you were a new player and heard that HAMSTER what would you do
And i do have a lot of HAMSTER laying around, i just don'tgo livestream saying i took advantage of yet to be known knowledge to my advantage.
BUT yet again.. why are you so mad if you have nothing to worry about??
Because I'm tired of people like you, that generalize, and worse, do not understand what's wrong about it.
I really don't get why some people are acting as if a class having a specific role is a new thing. Or a class being preferred over another class is a new thing. Or a class being asked to run certain powers is a new thing.
OPs were expected to run bubble for a long time when they first came out. GFs got kicked to the curb when OPs first came out. GFs were expected to run CS & Fray for a long time or they weren't desired. DCs were expected to run AA & HG nonstop. DO DCs were expected to buff. TRs were expected to SoD. SWs were expected to temp and debuff for a bit. DCs were expected to hea....oh wait no one needed heals for the last 2-3 years.
This game has been about classes doing what's best at the moment to get through the FOTM content. And every time someone whined about their class getting left behind or another class being picked over them, etc etc.
ToMM can stay open. ToMM wasn't designed for 95% of the playerbase and the devs stated it's not intended to be pugged nor is it intended for most players. ToMM is an experiment by the devs with to create some hard endgame content.
The only issue here is that this dev team ONLY released ToMM. The players that can't run it have to find something else to do and expeditions are lame.
So now we have the qq crowd that can't possibly be asked to run a different paragon or a different power or a different class. I miss a huge chunk of the player base that has left this game over the past 2 years. We knew the value of switching up builds when needed. We each had multiple toons that could be swapped in and out depending on need.
Now this player base has turned into a large chunk of "this is how i build and you can all go to *!HAMSTER because i'm not changing a thing but you have to pick me up or i'll waaaaaaah".
I really don't get why some people are acting as if a class having a specific role is a new thing. Or a class being preferred over another class is a new thing. Or a class being asked to run certain powers is a new thing.
OPs were expected to run bubble for a long time when they first came out. GFs got kicked to the curb when OPs first came out. GFs were expected to run CS & Fray for a long time or they weren't desired. DCs were expected to run AA & HG nonstop. DO DCs were expected to buff. TRs were expected to SoD. SWs were expected to temp and debuff for a bit. DCs were expected to hea....oh wait no one needed heals for the last 2-3 years.
This game has been about classes doing what's best at the moment to get through the FOTM content. And every time someone whined about their class getting left behind or another class being picked over them, etc etc.
ToMM can stay open. ToMM wasn't designed for 95% of the playerbase and the devs stated it's not intended to be pugged nor is it intended for most players. ToMM is an experiment by the devs with to create some hard endgame content.
The only issue here is that this dev team ONLY released ToMM. The players that can't run it have to find something else to do and expeditions are lame.
So now we have the qq crowd that can't possibly be asked to run a different paragon or a different power or a different class. I miss a huge chunk of the player base that has left this game over the past 2 years. We knew the value of switching up builds when needed. We each had multiple toons that could be swapped in and out depending on need.
Now this player base has turned into a large chunk of "this is how i build and you can all go to *!HAMSTER because i'm not changing a thing but you have to pick me up or i'll waaaaaaah".
Mod 16 and 17 didn't fix anything. Things are actually worst than they were in mod 15. Mod 16 was suppose to bring about a balance to the game and make it easier for the developers to fix prevailing issues. The big issue that is causing imbalance is that the code used by the two devs were different and this impacted classes ability to produce similar damage. The four classes that benefited are Rogue, Warlock, Wizard and Ranger. Of these four only the warlock is a sub-par damage dealer while the other three are the top damage dealers in the game.
Like I stated more than once I don't think the devs will pull ToMM. I also think that it is unfair for the players of cleric, warlock, barbarian and fighters as these classes are under performing damage wise and have to battle each other out for the 1 healer and tank role left in groups as most groups are taking 1 paladin healer and 1 paladin. I know that may not always be the case but that is how it seems from all runs that have available videos. Some are even doing 1 healer runs.
So those that are making a comment about all classes having roles that can be used in ToMM are correct but with less support roles needed those classes are typically outside of the invite wondering why the devs did what they did to the game. Those who want to get into ToMM but can't do to their damage dealer being inferior some leave, some simply try to get into groups as support (and be ineffective given their lack of knowledge playing as support), and others will play other content.
I'm hopeful that the devs fix the class imbalance before mod 18 so this way all classes can play as a DPS in ToMM before the next mod.
Mod 16 and 17 didn't fix anything. Things are actually worst than they were in mod 15. Mod 16 was suppose to bring about a balance to the game and make it easier for the developers to fix prevailing issues. The big issue that is causing imbalance is that the code used by the two devs were different and this impacted classes ability to produce similar damage. The four classes that benefited are Rogue, Warlock, Wizard and Ranger. Of these four only the warlock is a sub-par damage dealer while the other three are the top damage dealers in the game.
Like I stated more than once I don't think the devs will pull ToMM. I also think that it is unfair for the players of cleric, warlock, barbarian and fighters as these classes are under performing damage wise and have to battle each other out for the 1 healer and tank role left in groups as most groups are taking 1 paladin healer and 1 paladin. I know that may not always be the case but that is how it seems from all runs that have available videos. Some are even doing 1 healer runs.
So those that are making a comment about all classes having roles that can be used in ToMM are correct but with less support roles needed those classes are typically outside of the invite wondering why the devs did what they did to the game. Those who want to get into ToMM but can't do to their damage dealer being inferior some leave, some simply try to get into groups as support (and be ineffective given their lack of knowledge playing as support), and others will play other content.
I'm hopeful that the devs fix the class imbalance before mod 18 so this way all classes can play as a DPS in ToMM before the next mod.
Nothing you have repeatedly said changes that a class or two being left on the outside is not a new issue in NW.
Yes, the problem is there. No, it's not a new problem. And in another mod or two, some other class will be left out in the cold. And the cycle continues.
There will never be real balance. Even when they (eventually) get around to fixing the royal screw up they did on buffs, you can be sure some class will feel shafted. I know you've been playing this game long enough to know this game will never find balance.
Mod 16 and 17 didn't fix anything. Things are actually worst than they were in mod 15. Mod 16 was suppose to bring about a balance to the game and make it easier for the developers to fix prevailing issues. The big issue that is causing imbalance is that the code used by the two devs were different and this impacted classes ability to produce similar damage. The four classes that benefited are Rogue, Warlock, Wizard and Ranger. Of these four only the warlock is a sub-par damage dealer while the other three are the top damage dealers in the game.
Like I stated more than once I don't think the devs will pull ToMM. I also think that it is unfair for the players of cleric, warlock, barbarian and fighters as these classes are under performing damage wise and have to battle each other out for the 1 healer and tank role left in groups as most groups are taking 1 paladin healer and 1 paladin. I know that may not always be the case but that is how it seems from all runs that have available videos. Some are even doing 1 healer runs.
So those that are making a comment about all classes having roles that can be used in ToMM are correct but with less support roles needed those classes are typically outside of the invite wondering why the devs did what they did to the game. Those who want to get into ToMM but can't do to their damage dealer being inferior some leave, some simply try to get into groups as support (and be ineffective given their lack of knowledge playing as support), and others will play other content.
I'm hopeful that the devs fix the class imbalance before mod 18 so this way all classes can play as a DPS in ToMM before the next mod.
Nothing you have repeatedly said changes that a class or two being left on the outside is not a new issue in NW.
Yes, the problem is there. No, it's not a new problem. And in another mod or two, some other class will be left out in the cold. And the cycle continues.
There will never be real balance. Even when they (eventually) get around to fixing the royal screw up they did on buffs, you can be sure some class will feel shafted. I know you've been playing this game long enough to know this game will never find balance.
I've only played from mod 9 onward and from 9-15 being a support player you actually had an edge do to how buffs stacked, but mod 16 changed that.
If we looked at prior mods the biggest loser in most content was the TR who typically fell behind the GWF as a pure damage dealer. All other classes had a buff support option they could play to help the group out, not TR or GWF and GWF was the preferred DPS most of the time do to its higher damage potential.
Mod 16 ain't nice at all as you need just 2 tanks and 2 healers for the new trial. With that said, you have 6 damage dealer roles.
I know not all classes are equally played but for this example I will use that assumption.
The game current classes are Paladin, Barbarian, Fighter, Cleric, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter and Wizard. For this example there are 6 players per a class that are highly skilled, this gives us 48 players. This would make 4 groups if all things were equal for our damage dealers. Since things are not equal, we get two.
In prior mods you didn't need a top notch DPS to beat content; you just needed ones that were fairly good.
Maybe I am taking his words out of context, maybe not. Seeing the comment of " that is good enough" comes across as if you are a dc, barbie, etc run your support paragon otherwise too bad wait till they fix your class.
I have already stated, further up in response to someone else that the context is, "they should not remove tomm just because of the class problem." There is no disagreement about there being a class problem, just that the correct action is not removing tomm.
It is not a class problem but a code problem of how damage is calculated that is benefiting 4 classes: Rogue, Wizard, Rangers and Warlocks(sorry I threw Warlocks in here I know you are struggling and need everything to get decent damage out). IMO, players using these classes in ToMM should be banned as they are abusing a known issue to beat content and earn AD, similar to the hunt exploit.
Another solution is the devs lower Wizard, Rogue and Ranger base damage by 25% to make it closer to the other classes until the devs can fix the damage calculation for all classes.
I don't think the devs will do anything and players will find ways to beat it.
I'm sticking to my guns on not playing it; even though I probably would love the trial as I love over challenging difficult content that requires team work.
1. Holding on not playing it? You are on console... what beating it? What playing it.... What commenting on difficulty..
2. Do you even understand the damage calculation.. No words can describe waht I want to write now..
I'm commenting on difficulty because someone said that Clerics, Barbarian, Warlocks and Fighter should go play their support role yet groups are getting by with 1 healer making room for 1 less support player making it even harder for players that main those classes to get into groups. Content should be harder or 2 healers should be mandatory.
As for damage calculations; I wasn't the one that stated it was off and should be fixed; it was the developers. They stated that warlocks, wizards, rouge and ranger damage calculation was off and those classes are over producing for damage. Within that same post I believe Sharp stated that if those classes were fixed ToMM wouldn't be beaten. Again, not something I wrote.
As for cost into characters; I had a friend quit because he plays a warlock DPS over 125M into his class and he does not want to play a healer and he wants to play as a damage dealer. He has a hard enough time with LoMM and with ToMM coming out, he said screw this and quit. Now playing BDO. A cleric I know really well is also leaving as he likes to play a damage dealer but not as a healer; he is also walking about from his 100M+ character.
These are high end players who enjoy their main and simply are annoyed by players like you and sharp that state go play this or that. In prior mods going into content as a DPS was hard because most content had 1 or 2 spots for 5 man and 2-4 in ten man. Now it is 3 for dungeons and 6 for trials. Many true end game players that are not playing a Rogue, Wizard or Ranger will get frustrated because they have to fight it out for one of the four limited spots for support, similar to what damage dealers dealt with in prior mods. That is why players are leaving, even if they play support, because things are not better. They are just as bad if not worst.
I really don't get why some people are acting as if a class having a specific role is a new thing. Or a class being preferred over another class is a new thing. Or a class being asked to run certain powers is a new thing.
OPs were expected to run bubble for a long time when they first came out. GFs got kicked to the curb when OPs first came out. GFs were expected to run CS & Fray for a long time or they weren't desired. DCs were expected to run AA & HG nonstop. DO DCs were expected to buff. TRs were expected to SoD. SWs were expected to temp and debuff for a bit. DCs were expected to hea....oh wait no one needed heals for the last 2-3 years.
This game has been about classes doing what's best at the moment to get through the FOTM content. And every time someone whined about their class getting left behind or another class being picked over them, etc etc.
ToMM can stay open. ToMM wasn't designed for 95% of the playerbase and the devs stated it's not intended to be pugged nor is it intended for most players. ToMM is an experiment by the devs with to create some hard endgame content.
The only issue here is that this dev team ONLY released ToMM. The players that can't run it have to find something else to do and expeditions are lame.
So now we have the qq crowd that can't possibly be asked to run a different paragon or a different power or a different class. I miss a huge chunk of the player base that has left this game over the past 2 years. We knew the value of switching up builds when needed. We each had multiple toons that could be swapped in and out depending on need.
Now this player base has turned into a large chunk of "this is how i build and you can all go to *!HAMSTER because i'm not changing a thing but you have to pick me up or i'll waaaaaaah".
Mod 16 and 17 didn't fix anything. Things are actually worst than they were in mod 15. Mod 16 was suppose to bring about a balance to the game and make it easier for the developers to fix prevailing issues. The big issue that is causing imbalance is that the code used by the two devs were different and this impacted classes ability to produce similar damage. The four classes that benefited are Rogue, Warlock, Wizard and Ranger. Of these four only the warlock is a sub-par damage dealer while the other three are the top damage dealers in the game.
Like I stated more than once I don't think the devs will pull ToMM. I also think that it is unfair for the players of cleric, warlock, barbarian and fighters as these classes are under performing damage wise and have to battle each other out for the 1 healer and tank role left in groups as most groups are taking 1 paladin healer and 1 paladin. I know that may not always be the case but that is how it seems from all runs that have available videos. Some are even doing 1 healer runs.
So those that are making a comment about all classes having roles that can be used in ToMM are correct but with less support roles needed those classes are typically outside of the invite wondering why the devs did what they did to the game. Those who want to get into ToMM but can't do to their damage dealer being inferior some leave, some simply try to get into groups as support (and be ineffective given their lack of knowledge playing as support), and others will play other content.
I'm hopeful that the devs fix the class imbalance before mod 18 so this way all classes can play as a DPS in ToMM before the next mod.
How is this any worse than mod 15? You are complaining that 4 classes have to queue for 2 roles. when back in mod 15 you had all 7 dps classes queuing for 1 or 2 spots in a dungeon. The only class that didn't have a specified dps slot was Pally. Although even that didn't stop people as you could actually queue as dps as a pally if you had a loadout without a paragon specified. So realistically you had all 8 classes queue for 2 spots. That is twice as bad as it is now.
I get that. But please try to look at it from my point of view. This massive rearrangement and rewrite of the game occurs, in secret, and the result is that it *just so happens* to favor some classes over others. And it *just so happens* that the classes favored by many of the testers are the ones that are the top classes now.
Hey, don't slander me. The villains' this guy over here (@thefabricant).
And it *just so happens* that this big massive bug on how buffs are calculated went completely undetected until right before the new trial was going to be launched.
More like "wasn't given enough attention without enough qq to generate dev aggro".
I checked the rumor on Goofy Fighter as far back as July 17th. I don't know when it first appeared (it didn't exist in the Owlbear beta or leadup to Mod 16 launch), but it appeared sometime after Mod 16.
The "bug" only "appeared" for Barbarian when the Barbie discord found the pattern repeated on Barbie self buffs around late July, asked me to verify their results, and then raised enough noise to get the dev team attention.
Of course I had "no" reason to say that it was bugged.
Finding out that something was not functioning as it had for the past 10 modules isn't what you'd call a "bug", it's a "nerf". Unless you were SW mains, since bugfixes were synonymous with nerfs.
Apparently, I am supposed to be able to read noworries' mind and figure out that "oops, it's actually the HR/SW/CW/TR that are bugged" when it wasn't posted anywhere on the Mod 16 Feedback threads that "we are killing off multiplicative buffs, please let us know if we dun goof'd".
No lets say ToMM is easy mode right now. We also need a normal, hard and insane version as well!
Insane should be as hard as no one is able to finish it before mod 30 launch...we all want to do nothing else but ToMM for the next 5 years...fun, fun fun...sport for us all!
No lets say ToMM is easy mode right now. We also need a normal, hard and insane version as well!
Insane should be as hard as no one is able to finish it before mod 30 launch...we all want to do nothing else but ToMM for the next 5 years...fun, fun fun...sport for us all!
nah, lets not go overboard^^ make a Master Version now, and then a New Trial, that sounds better to me.
@lantern22, I don't want them to set the requirement up. Right now it is, in my experience, in the most criticised dungeons impossible to carry a newb through; ToNG, CoDG, CR, Manycoins, I think I forgot one. CR is imo the worst, considering that it has the highest discrepancy between requirements and the actual need of IL.
LoMM is also a problem: Entering it at 20k usually has the rest of the group leave / laugh / get miffed and telling one to leave. Rightfully so, since it's impossible to get past Arcturia with just two 20k players in the group.
What the devs need to fix is this discrepancy, and if they decide that dungeon content actually levels with the players who are currently in the instance (above a minimum). Yes, it's hard to get that done and balanced, but unlike the current content, it's at least possible to provide a challenging and fun experience to all who are supposedly able to play that content. Right now, it's blocked for the "lowlevel" players by an immesurable grind, and a fixed level for an endgame dungeon comes along with the problem that it will always be too hard for some and too easy for others. The system for these dungeons is broken in its very core.
Personally, while I agree that it is "just a game", I find it haughty by someone who does not face these difficulties to tell this to others who lose their fun playing. I don't mean to personally critizise you, but to point out that it sounds like "stop complaining, just eat what's thrown your way", with the follow-up problem that this only encourages people to eventually leave. And I guess that's something nobody wants, least of all the devs.
As I wrote somwhere else, the problem is not the IL, but:
- IL means nothing, since to access a dungeon should be required minimum stats instead of IL. What usually happens it's that people without any stat cap go inside dungeon only because high IL and it's not possible to complete it. - Every dungeon should have a tooltip that explain every mechanic, especially the boss fights.
At the end of all, of course it's Cryptic fault 99% of the time. What happens to me when I queue alone it's that I need to explain the mechanics to new people. But part of this fault is from players as well, because stat caps as well as video on youtube that explain the mechanics of dungeons are well known. Of course it's Cryptic duty to explain mechanics not a player duty, but, for example, if I have never been in a dungeon and I want to run it, it's my duty to search how mechanics work there and then queuing it (take into account that the first thing to do, even before watching video about mechanics, it's to cap the necessary stats to do it).
Again, at the end, it isn't a bad idea to clearly specify what are the minimum stats required dungeon by dungeon. At the moment there are enemies rating (for example LoMM 18k) but, unluckily, only few people care about that. It should be wrote in a more clearly way and even highlighted to be sure people read it. The best option, from my personal point of view, remains that the filter for dungeons and random queues should be minimum stats and not IL.
Kors hit perfect on that nail, slam hit. Crypt's fault for redesign for scaling, to do and to complete LoMM takes more than 250-300 dollars on coal wards trying to meet stat requirements, that is dang HUGE paywall on the spot. made them look so greedy to push players, make the players to decide to give up or pay up and suffer by bad scaling design. i am on final hours of my VIP perk. what i see, it went bad to extremely awful. too many reasons why it make players stop playing. 1. dirty adjustments on the odd of winning a prize from lockboxes. 2. awful RNG on chest lootings. tired of running again in hope "that next one will be lucky" over and over. 3. scaling on players vs mobs are way off, "Too hard"/"Too Easy", well, not all players are same. 4. nerfing non-stop since Mod 11, all the patches i kept tracked. 5. game was made for RPG (role play) but seeing it become more like casino (slot machine "RNG" effect) and folks hate it. 6. it used to be base on boons and prestige class skill tree, pre-mod 16, now it all about raising huge amounts of stats that required to meet for specific dungeons or get kick out of groups, this created a bad nightmare and big headaches for players to investing on stats. big turn off. 7. devs seem doesnt care about other players. they take away fun stuffs and turn into pure grind for numbers.
all the fun stuffs vanished when that Mod 6 came. nearly destroyed themselves, slowly dying by bad decisions and bad choice with zen market as paywall.
also what missing. player own housing.
what gone from this game, player made adventures (Foundry) companion's adventures, (Gateway)
what i wanted to see... Haunted House adventure Baba Yaga' Dancing Hut to explore.
oh i forgot. omit to add.
players been waiting for years, Druids, Bards, and Monks.
Comments
Yes what a surprise, that the company trying to get things better, and using free QA. Easier to yell "secret communication" than get involved..
So please enlighten us, how you can say "ToMM is actually !too easy!" if only two groups actually finished it?
Are you a professional Fortunenteller?
You did the same testing as a few mods ago with Tiger and Dancing Shield??
Yeah i know i know you will response now, this groups had "secret Insight" or "Secret Weapons of Mass Destructions" given from the devs like /giveall /killallenemys or things like that...
Wake up this is not Doom or Quake where you are maybe in need of this Commands if your aim is bad, can't strafe nor Rocket Jump...
But btt
Why are only a few people actually able to do it?
Again and again and again you will hear the same answer....
They are the most actives one, practicing on the preview server the mechanics, looking how to build and gear up the chars properly...
And this costs time, sweat and nerves...
In my case, my char on preview (can't run it on live, bc i am way too short on ressources), Yuna and me spend 2 or more hours together to "minmaxing" it.
Just to give you some firsthand Informations.
Do we have on Pc some advantages to the console players?
Yes for sure
But are these informations shared, how to build up the chars, from these peoples (espaicelly Sharps group did with the guide, streams from both groups, vids on yt..)
Watch it (and i mean everyone, who thinks there is smth "fishy" about it), and you will notice the "secret" behind it..
Hard training and teamplay
Nothing more, nothing less...
P.S.
Even if i am not part of both groups, it starts going on my nerves to read everywhere discord, reddit, forum this .....(insert random swearing word here).
Not Peace out
Share your secrets.
Or, better yet, send me one, I need it to inspect how it looks on my Wizzy.
There was this DC who outdpsed my Arcanist in MOD16. You should see how a real DPS dc looks like. Also, I don't expect a traditional healer role to do more damage than someone who literally casts lightning from thin air. Maybe only to the undead, cause of lore, but even that is a big if and why.
And I understand, you as a guild leader are going to defend your guild and your guildies no matter what. You wouldn't command a lot of respect in your guild as a leader if you threw your guildies under the bus whenever anyone posted something mean about them on the forums. I get that. But please try to look at it from my point of view. This massive rearrangement and rewrite of the game occurs, in secret, and the result is that it *just so happens* to favor some classes over others. And it *just so happens* that the classes favored by many of the testers are the ones that are the top classes now. And it *just so happens* that this big massive bug on how buffs are calculated went completely undetected until right before the new trial was going to be launched. It all seems a bit fishy.
I don't really blame the elite players though. I blame the devs, for outsourcing their development work to players. They should not ask players to do their jobs for them.
Unfortunately, nobody had any aggro and thus the trial was impossible to complete.
Not my guildies.
How you can't get any item level on preview?
That post actually about how buffs work, is by my guildie who mains dps GF... He shouldn't have find it? He had exams, but where were you btw? Why you didn't find about it at m16 back then on preview...
What is the situation with HR? SW?
It just happens that you have no clue what you talk about it, most of it simply nonsense, and not true, that's the problem.
One dev did X classes, dev 2 did classes Y, they work differently, what do you want from the players who do ToMM? Or from the players in the beta test? Now the players supposed to do the devs job and provide free and full QA for their work? This is exactly what you ask for.
They made a design difference, a player found it, who is actually my guildie, and you complain about what? That he didn't do it earlier? Or he was supposed to do it later?
That other players didn't test those classes because they don't play them? Or that some players adapted?
Make a list of who played what, who plays what, and who was in what beta, then come back with these idiotic tin foil hat nonsense. Remind me why some were very pissed about how the beta went, and some how most of the feedback received.
"rewrite in secret" - mod 16 was a while on preview, you had the same opportunity to provide feedback for any class as anyone else. You have no clue about what and how the closed beta went, but you still spew nonsense about it.
You don't read the forums, you do not test, you don't do anything, you don't know anything about what is going on, yet you are very good about these conclusions, tell me the earth is also flat and we didn't land on the moon?
There was this council of players, conveyed in secret where players were asked to decide which classes will live and which will die, bones were thrown, children sacrificed, barbarian was deemed unworthy.
Are you even reading what you are writing!?
How long it was in open beta? Where you could get involved at any time and make any suggestions you want. Where are your specific class suggestions?
And do you know what happened in that closed beta 'secretive' process? What the hell are you talking about... Not My Guildies.
Wait? So you expect your guild leader to jump in any time now? Or you will command less respect to them? lol. No, it was on open preview over a month. Just so happen, explain to me how someone who mains SW, practically quit the game over the changes and how their feedback was 'recieved'
Explain to me why one of the testers who mained HR quit for the similar reason? But is playing the trial now, on the cheapest thing to gear, which is not his main playing before.
Tell me about how Rogue feedback was received, please do, waiting to hear all about it. Really? Who are the many testers who favor which classes, and which on top? Or lets assume a scenario where one tester spent hours testing and found most of the issues in a class, while other classes didn't have anyone testing them, because you choose not to check your class in open beta, means that the tester that did a good job is at fault for any issues? Shocking! A BUG IN NW! Can't be! Fishy indeed!!! Class balance issue in NW??! Can't be! Where were you with the fishiness when GWF was the top dog and other classes were not. How is that class balance wasn't fishy back then? Where where your conspiracy theory about the TR changes in mod 15? But you do exactly that, you blame players. You always do. Specific players. Or more correctly, everyone who you perceive as a better player. They must be self serving elitists, in their filthy ivory towers, because they accomplished something you didn't. There is no other explanation to this.
> (Quote)
> I think you're the guy who has like 50000 gold rings from TOMM on AH, no? And each of them was different, too!
>
> Share your secrets.
>
> Or, better yet, send me one, I need it to inspect how it looks on my Wizzy.
im doing all the selling for m group since we do split runs, so when u see what ive listed on the AH its the loot from 10 people. Thats prolly not the secret u were hoping for tough.
Salute.
Preview is opened to everyone, you can go check stuff out too...
The alpha testers (aka secret group) those people will take advantage because they have knowlege months before you do (some of them might already be testing mod 18), HAMSTER go watch some streams before mod 16 dropped and you will see their bags/banks full of useless stuff (at that time) and them saying ''oh is just some trash i have on me'' but when the mod was announced all that ''trash'' went up in demand and prices.
tomm was made for end game players.. well end game players on certain classes
But so you know that there were what? 15 people in m16 beta, and about the same m17.
I'm sure everyone sat all day filling their bags with whatever.
Second thing, I have ~30 storage chars, full with HAMSTER, some of it before you started playing. So now what?
Just for example, I have ~30 Batiri, bought at I don't know, 20 AD, now their are 20k AD.
What secret preview knowledge lead to this?? Or perhaps when they were worthless, and the patch notes said they will reduce the drop rate, someone did 1 + 1 and bought a bunch just in case...
Have issue with a class, good, I have many issues with most classes, bring it to the devs. Better do it while things on preview though, there, there is the minuscule chance that someone, maybe, when the stars align, will read it.
Well if they did or not i don't know, but you would be pretty stupid to let a chance to make millions go tbh...
The problem i have with these people (i won't sat names but if you want go check the livestreams from all the players) they were talking openly about this stuff on live streams.
Before mod 16 announcement they were like ''oh all that stuff is just trash i have to get rid off''.
As soon as the announce mod 16 they go ''oh when i saw the changes while alpha testing i started stocking all this stuff you see in my bag i'm all about that ad hehe'' (bare in mind these are some of the same people players were recomending to the partnership program)
And about classes why even bother, they don't give a HAMSTER, just look at the 1000's of posts ... I just said that my highest lvl class can't get into it unless i play has a healer.
And i would also like to know when did you start playing because i've been here since day 1 (well this acc was only created in 2014 but not my first one), oh i know, you must have a lot of stuff from beta
It is all ready through some thick heads that generalizing by race, gender, nationality, etc, is not correct.. Now if only one step further will happen... I see, so it is either once does something you object to, or they are stupid?
Or you are just envy that others had the opportunity and you didn't, as you would have done so in their place? Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general?
Or you just assumed because one person, for example, did something, and you would have done the same, then everyone obviously did something? And this is without going into if it's wrong to begin with. Some people here think that if someone is in the closed beta, the devs must have set there and only waited for their divine word and commands. Which is absurd.
On the other hand, I agree about the balance itself, and not only agree, but IMO the devs should have put more effort and time into making classes more equal, on a more rapid but small, delicate changes especially with the main roles of those classes before the change in m16 Seriously.. I've used it as an example as your forum account shows "Joined August 2015"
Then lets do it another way, "If you had saved/hoarded various HAMSTER you could have had crapton of storage alts with things that may be of value on different occasions.."
This is really not to emphasize the specific "you" here..
and yet you really are buthurt, why? if you didn't do what i said why are you so mad? just ignore it even if it generalises players not race, gender, nationality do not try to make this something it is not, tired of people like you.
''Or you are just envy that others had the opportunity and you didn't, as you would have done so in their place?''
''Who are these players? Because from all the closed beta testers, only 3 or so streamed and one streams now. If you have grievance with "these" people, go for it, why your grievance is not with "streamers" in general? ''
Again i couldn't care less but its not good for the game /company itself if certain, lets say influencers, go alpha test then say on stream the took advantage of that to make ad or change the economy of the game, just think a bit, just once if you were a new player and heard that HAMSTER what would you do
And i do have a lot of HAMSTER laying around, i just don'tgo livestream saying i took advantage of yet to be known knowledge to my advantage.
BUT yet again.. why are you so mad if you have nothing to worry about??
My character Tsin'xing
OPs were expected to run bubble for a long time when they first came out.
GFs got kicked to the curb when OPs first came out.
GFs were expected to run CS & Fray for a long time or they weren't desired.
DCs were expected to run AA & HG nonstop.
DO DCs were expected to buff.
TRs were expected to SoD.
SWs were expected to temp and debuff for a bit.
DCs were expected to hea....oh wait no one needed heals for the last 2-3 years.
This game has been about classes doing what's best at the moment to get through the FOTM content. And every time someone whined about their class getting left behind or another class being picked over them, etc etc.
ToMM can stay open. ToMM wasn't designed for 95% of the playerbase and the devs stated it's not intended to be pugged nor is it intended for most players. ToMM is an experiment by the devs with to create some hard endgame content.
The only issue here is that this dev team ONLY released ToMM. The players that can't run it have to find something else to do and expeditions are lame.
So now we have the qq crowd that can't possibly be asked to run a different paragon or a different power or a different class. I miss a huge chunk of the player base that has left this game over the past 2 years. We knew the value of switching up builds when needed. We each had multiple toons that could be swapped in and out depending on need.
Now this player base has turned into a large chunk of "this is how i build and you can all go to *!HAMSTER because i'm not changing a thing but you have to pick me up or i'll waaaaaaah".
Mod 16 and 17 didn't fix anything. Things are actually worst than they were in mod 15. Mod 16 was suppose to bring about a balance to the game and make it easier for the developers to fix prevailing issues. The big issue that is causing imbalance is that the code used by the two devs were different and this impacted classes ability to produce similar damage. The four classes that benefited are Rogue, Warlock, Wizard and Ranger. Of these four only the warlock is a sub-par damage dealer while the other three are the top damage dealers in the game.
Like I stated more than once I don't think the devs will pull ToMM. I also think that it is unfair for the players of cleric, warlock, barbarian and fighters as these classes are under performing damage wise and have to battle each other out for the 1 healer and tank role left in groups as most groups are taking 1 paladin healer and 1 paladin. I know that may not always be the case but that is how it seems from all runs that have available videos. Some are even doing 1 healer runs.
So those that are making a comment about all classes having roles that can be used in ToMM are correct but with less support roles needed those classes are typically outside of the invite wondering why the devs did what they did to the game. Those who want to get into ToMM but can't do to their damage dealer being inferior some leave, some simply try to get into groups as support (and be ineffective given their lack of knowledge playing as support), and others will play other content.
I'm hopeful that the devs fix the class imbalance before mod 18 so this way all classes can play as a DPS in ToMM before the next mod.
Yes, the problem is there. No, it's not a new problem. And in another mod or two, some other class will be left out in the cold. And the cycle continues.
There will never be real balance. Even when they (eventually) get around to fixing the royal screw up they did on buffs, you can be sure some class will feel shafted. I know you've been playing this game long enough to know this game will never find balance.
If we looked at prior mods the biggest loser in most content was the TR who typically fell behind the GWF as a pure damage dealer. All other classes had a buff support option they could play to help the group out, not TR or GWF and GWF was the preferred DPS most of the time do to its higher damage potential.
Mod 16 ain't nice at all as you need just 2 tanks and 2 healers for the new trial. With that said, you have 6 damage dealer roles.
I know not all classes are equally played but for this example I will use that assumption.
The game current classes are Paladin, Barbarian, Fighter, Cleric, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter and Wizard. For this example there are 6 players per a class that are highly skilled, this gives us 48 players. This would make 4 groups if all things were equal for our damage dealers. Since things are not equal, we get two.
In prior mods you didn't need a top notch DPS to beat content; you just needed ones that were fairly good.
As for damage calculations; I wasn't the one that stated it was off and should be fixed; it was the developers. They stated that warlocks, wizards, rouge and ranger damage calculation was off and those classes are over producing for damage. Within that same post I believe Sharp stated that if those classes were fixed ToMM wouldn't be beaten. Again, not something I wrote.
As for cost into characters; I had a friend quit because he plays a warlock DPS over 125M into his class and he does not want to play a healer and he wants to play as a damage dealer. He has a hard enough time with LoMM and with ToMM coming out, he said screw this and quit. Now playing BDO. A cleric I know really well is also leaving as he likes to play a damage dealer but not as a healer; he is also walking about from his 100M+ character.
These are high end players who enjoy their main and simply are annoyed by players like you and sharp that state go play this or that. In prior mods going into content as a DPS was hard because most content had 1 or 2 spots for 5 man and 2-4 in ten man. Now it is 3 for dungeons and 6 for trials. Many true end game players that are not playing a Rogue, Wizard or Ranger will get frustrated because they have to fight it out for one of the four limited spots for support, similar to what damage dealers dealt with in prior mods. That is why players are leaving, even if they play support, because things are not better. They are just as bad if not worst.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
The villains' this guy over here (@thefabricant). More like "wasn't given enough attention without enough qq to generate dev aggro".
I checked the rumor on Goofy Fighter as far back as July 17th. I don't know when it first appeared (it didn't exist in the Owlbear beta or leadup to Mod 16 launch), but it appeared sometime after Mod 16.
The "bug" only "appeared" for Barbarian when the Barbie discord found the pattern repeated on Barbie self buffs around late July, asked me to verify their results, and then raised enough noise to get the dev team attention. "DPS"
Hey, wait, you called me "guildie" still! That means I haven't been booted yet!
Of course I had "no" reason to say that it was bugged.Finding out that something was not functioning as it had for the past 10 modules isn't what you'd call a "bug", it's a "nerf".
Unless you were SW mains, since bugfixes were synonymous with nerfs.Apparently, I am supposed to be able to read noworries' mind and figure out that "oops, it's actually the HR/SW/CW/TR that are bugged" when it wasn't posted anywhere on the Mod 16 Feedback threads that "we are killing off multiplicative buffs, please let us know if we dun goof'd".
No lets say ToMM is easy mode right now. We also need a normal, hard and insane version as well!
Insane should be as hard as no one is able to finish it before mod 30 launch...we all want to do nothing else but ToMM for the next 5 years...fun, fun fun...sport for us all!
- IL means nothing, since to access a dungeon should be required minimum stats instead of IL. What usually happens it's that people without any stat cap go inside dungeon only because high IL and it's not possible to complete it.
- Every dungeon should have a tooltip that explain every mechanic, especially the boss fights.
At the end of all, of course it's Cryptic fault 99% of the time.
What happens to me when I queue alone it's that I need to explain the mechanics to new people. But part of this fault is from players as well, because stat caps as well as video on youtube that explain the mechanics of dungeons are well known. Of course it's Cryptic duty to explain mechanics not a player duty, but, for example, if I have never been in a dungeon and I want to run it, it's my duty to search how mechanics work there and then queuing it (take into account that the first thing to do, even before watching video about mechanics, it's to cap the necessary stats to do it).
Again, at the end, it isn't a bad idea to clearly specify what are the minimum stats required dungeon by dungeon. At the moment there are enemies rating (for example LoMM 18k) but, unluckily, only few people care about that. It should be wrote in a more clearly way and even highlighted to be sure people read it.
The best option, from my personal point of view, remains that the filter for dungeons and random queues should be minimum stats and not IL.
Crypt's fault for redesign for scaling, to do and to complete LoMM takes more than 250-300 dollars on coal wards trying to meet stat requirements, that is dang HUGE paywall on the spot. made them look so greedy to push players, make the players to decide to give up or pay up and suffer by bad scaling design. i am on final hours of my VIP perk. what i see, it went bad to extremely awful.
too many reasons why it make players stop playing.
1. dirty adjustments on the odd of winning a prize from lockboxes.
2. awful RNG on chest lootings. tired of running again in hope "that next one will be lucky" over and over.
3. scaling on players vs mobs are way off, "Too hard"/"Too Easy", well, not all players are same.
4. nerfing non-stop since Mod 11, all the patches i kept tracked.
5. game was made for RPG (role play) but seeing it become more like casino (slot machine "RNG" effect) and folks hate it.
6. it used to be base on boons and prestige class skill tree, pre-mod 16, now it all about raising huge amounts of stats that required to meet for specific dungeons or get kick out of groups, this created a bad nightmare and big headaches for players to investing on stats. big turn off.
7. devs seem doesnt care about other players. they take away fun stuffs and turn into pure grind for numbers.
all the fun stuffs vanished when that Mod 6 came. nearly destroyed themselves, slowly dying by bad decisions and bad choice with zen market as paywall.
also what missing.
player own housing.
what gone from this game,
player made adventures (Foundry)
companion's adventures, (Gateway)
what i wanted to see...
Haunted House adventure
Baba Yaga' Dancing Hut to explore.
oh i forgot. omit to add.
players been waiting for years,
Druids, Bards, and Monks.