Which Is Better, Old Percent Damage Gear, or New Gear With More Power?

chemjeff

The term in the damage formula which modifies damage due to power (p) is:

(1+p/100,000)

The term in the damage formula which modifies damage due to percent damage boosting gear is

(1+d/100)

where d is the percent damage increase (e.g., for Heels of Fury, d = 3, for Shadowstalker +5 Ring, d = 2.5). Each piece of gear contributes its own multiplicative term of (1+d/100) and this value is not affected by power.

So if you have old pre-Mod 16 gear and you are thinking of switching it out for new Mod 16 gear with more power, then in order for the switch to be worth it, you would want the total power from the new gear but without the damage bonus, to yield more damage output than the old gear, with lower power but with the damage bonus.

Suppose p1 is the original power and p2 is the new power. Therefore, you would want:

(1+p2/100,000) > (1+p1/100,000)(1+d/100)

Doing a little bit of algebra, this condition is met when:

p2 > p1 + (100,000+p1)(d/100)

Example: if your original power is p1=120,000, and you are thinking of switching out your Heels of Fury (d=3) for some new gear, the new power would have to be at least:

p2 > 120,000 + (100,000+120,000)(3/100)
p2 > 126,600

in order for the tradeoff to be worthwhile.

adinosii

This assumes you can still cap other stats, using the %gear. If you cannot cap stats like ArPen with the old %gear you don't benefit as much by using it.

Unknown

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chemjeff

pariswinters#7118 said:

chemjeff said:

The term in the damage formula which modifies damage due to power (p) is:

(1+p/100,000)

The term in the damage formula which modifies damage due to percent damage boosting gear is

(1+d/100)

where d is the percent damage increase (e.g., for Heels of Fury, d = 3, for Shadowstalker +5 Ring, d = 2.5). Each piece of gear contributes its own multiplicative term of (1+d/100) and this value is not affected by power.

So if you have old pre-Mod 16 gear and you are thinking of switching it out for new Mod 16 gear with more power, then in order for the switch to be worth it, you would want the total power from the new gear but without the damage bonus, to yield more damage output than the old gear, with lower power but with the damage bonus.

Suppose p1 is the original power and p2 is the new power. Therefore, you would want:

(1+p2/100,000) > (1+p1/100,000)(1+d/100)

Doing a little bit of algebra, this condition is met when:

p2 > p1 + (100,000+p1)(d/100)

Example: if your original power is p1=120,000, and you are thinking of switching out your Heels of Fury (d=3) for some new gear, the new power would have to be at least:

p2 > 120,000 + (100,000+120,000)(3/100)
p2 > 126,600

in order for the tradeoff to be worthwhile.

so if the new power is over 6,600 then the item would be better? so does this mean that the primal arms win over terrrored grips or fearbringers? for me the primal arms give about 8,000 power (i have 161 base)

This analysis only applies to percent damage boosting gear, like Heels of Fury or Fured Kiuno. The Primal Arms bonus doesn't boost damage, it boosts power.

I have not done extensive testing on this, but based on the tooltips (always a little dodgy), for the Primal Arms to be worthwhile, you want to determine if 1.05×p1 > p2, where p1 is the base power (without the proc) while wearing the Primal Arms, and p2 is the power while wearing the M16 gear.

chemjeff

adinosii said:

This assumes you can still cap other stats, using the %gear. If you cannot cap stats like ArPen with the old %gear you don't benefit as much by using it.

Yes that is true. But in my experience, it's very doable. You'll need an augment and high rank bonding stones and the M16 companion gear.

flippy

notice they are raising the IL needed for the newest dungeons . . . making false IL the needed attribute to enter newer content . . .

its a technique to out date older content

adinosii

chemjeff said:

Yes that is true. But in my experience, it's very doable. You'll need an augment and high rank bonding stones and the M16 companion gear.

It's easy in M16. In M17, it becomes harder....getting 80K in the most important stats to 80K and 24K IL while still using old gear is doable - you just just need to max pretty much everything else. In M18, I do not expect it to be possible to cap the stats and keep using the old gear. (My prediction is for a new tier of weapons/armor and a stat cap of 95-100K

pitshade

Some gear will make the old pieces less desirable anyway. I think there is an armor (feet?) piece that has the Shadowstalker bonus in mod 17. Also they are fixing the Ebonized Chests to actually give power which stacks to 10%, IIRC. Ebonized replaces Hags/Bear and those boots replaces a Shadowstalker meaning a Ranged or Melee perk ring takes its place. Dame bonuses, new gear.

mentinmindmaker

To follow up on this:
What stacking rules are in effect now?

It used to be effects with the same name did not stack. But they did some changes to that because people complained about the Kino etc etc.

So what are stacking rules now?

Unknown

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pitshade

> @mentinmindmaker said:
> To follow up on this:
> What stacking rules are in effect now?
>
> It used to be effects with the same name did not stack. But they did some changes to that because people complained about the Kino etc etc.
>
> So what are stacking rules now?

Bonuses don't stack with 2 exceptions.
* Different ranks stack as with Shadowstalker +4/+5.

* Perk from Hags, Kiuno, Heels etc... stack with itself 2 times. So you can have Heels and Kiuno or replace either or both with the Melee Ebonized rings but you can't go 3x or 4x. Buff icon is present for this one.