Module 17 - PvP! MUST BE DONE!!!!

barbie

Hello, with the upcoming module 17, PVP seems to get few changes that mean alot, these changes are commin in small bottles, but they are making the PvP better, the following changes: a new pvp Map, upgraded PvP Gear, and better PvP Rewards all togheter will make alot of us start doing PvP, bbuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut there is a buuuuuuuuuuuuut

There are few problems in PvP that we can't let them slip and these are the following Main Ones

1. PLEASE REMOVE COMPANIONS from PvP: Domination , the active bonuses are working in PvP and this creates a huge disbalance in PvP, can we please get a fix on them

2. TENACITY AS A BUFF: with module 16 this was turned off, as it is not working, CAN we please get this back specifically
- Players Deal LESS DAMAGE
- Critical Severity Resistance (keep the same formula of decreasing the critical severity %, NOT the damage)
- Healing Depression

PLEASE! make these values different for each ROLE: TANK , DPS and HEALER.

Obviously there are other changes that need to be done, but these 2 are a priority for now.


@nitocris83 @noworries#8859 @asterdahl @mimicking#6533

kalina311

so if a players changes loadouts /roles at the campfire to another role does his values change ??

how does this role changing effect team balance ?

you also forgot to mention what happened to the Devs broken pvp Cc resist system that they developed and ignored all feedback on ...

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kalina311

can a player not achieve higher dps or more defensiveness by simply changing gear ?
how is it fair that certain classes have mutiple roles roles therefore would be able to change tankyness and defensiveness by swapping loadouts(with your proposal ) and other players are stuck only on one path / roll and can only do so by changing gear .

are some of these inequalities not simply solved by the bonuses on the new pvp gear ..which punishes/counter plays too much healing or dodging or blocking or tanknyess ... according to the players choice

furthermore there are wards/. marks in the guild hall that offer pvp dps or defensive increases vs any class of the players choice (or that they feel is too weak too strong or who they hate the most etc )
maybe those will be used more now ..

changing adjusting gear/ rings/ wards / mounts / boons etc on the fly depending on the composition of who you are fighting is nothing new here ..

there is no universal give tank more X and give certain dps class more Y in pvp formula
also different classes perform differently at the same item level .so who is the judge of what those independent class based tenacity numbers should be and based on what criteria. ? .can pvp resources not be allocated differently or on something else to achieve similar effect and be less controversial problematic to balance

thefiresidecat

pvp is a waste of valuable resources. just cut it from the game. RIP

kalina311

as far as i am concerned.. the choice to be defensive or deflecty or dps in pvp etc have already been given to us/ bolstered by the devs via gear and is class role independent/ ..and is not something the dev should decide to impose or meddle with in pvp via more customized tenacity tinkering buffs and not letting players try be non cookie cutter build and break out of certain molds..

we want more creative flexible Pvp builds not more cookie cutter ones imposed by devs custom pvp tenacity class rules pigeonholing people into certain roles /things

kalina311

the same thing can be said of different maps or new pvp game modes the devs hinted at. different classes also perform differently on alternative maps and modes are we going to have separate independent class buff for that too ...? I think not

also regarding your class based tenacity pvp buff
take for example companion slots defensive offensive utility... the devs set and locked those for class / role even thos e people wanted to customize them .. Barbarians are whining right now cause they want to be more dps and have freedom to take more dps based companion buffs /slots and the devs want simplicity by role .. as they would want in pvp not further complexity based on their class visions( I personally think players should be able to mix any companions buff they want in pve indepandant of class role )


ya no pets should be in pvp period ...

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kalina311

lol i dont know where you read in my posts that i hate pvp lol I was one of the top Cws on the Pc leader board mod 7-8-9-10-11 era ya that was at the other guy in the thread :P

kalina311

thefiresidecat said:

pvp is a waste of valuable resources. just cut it from the game. RIP

the dev already said live on twitch that 20% of the players of the game used to pvp so nice try
asside from the Fact that 50% of the games income used to come from pvp/pve hybrid players gearing up

can we say that 20% of players used the foundry ? which is much harder to maintain then pvp ..and how did they monetize the foundry ..? hint: they did not ...

P.S back in the day Pve players were PvP players too and vice versa ..that comprises a good chunk of the population that left and never came back

kiraskytower

kalina311 said:

the dev already said live on twitch that 20% of the players of the game used to pvp so nice try
asside from the Fact that 50% of the games income used to come from pvp/pve hybrid players gearing up

can we say that 20% of players used the foundry ? which is much harder to maintain then pvp ..and how did they monetize the foundry ..? hint: they did not ...

P.S back in the day Pve players were PvP players too and vice versa ..that comprises a good chunk of the population that left and never came back

This is quite true - many of us used to PvP much more back before the balance issues were so severe and the disaster of tenacity gear basically made it nearly impossible for newer players to join in (The circular "you must have tenacity to PvP, You get kicked without Tenacity, You get tenacity from PvPing" was a very poor idea on the part of the devs).

Believe it or not, at one point PvPers were even civil ... going so far to trade caps when the match was lopsided. It wasn't always the imbalanced, toxic cesspool most PvEers think it is today. How to fix it? I'm not sure a new map and some new gear will make much difference, but it is a start.

gripnir78

PVP model of this game was broken from the start. Thing was it was not so obvious at the start. But any subsequent MOD was bit by bit ruining PVP side of the game to the point (post MOD 10) where it was broken beyond any chance of repair.

System when altering classes/skills for PVE reasons impacted PVP or vice versa was reason of that disaster
Add to that new gear/skills and tons of statistics pilling up etc and we got a system that cannot be belanced at all.

Now if devs will follow this path again it gona end up the same way.
Only solution is to create pvp mechanics as much separated form pve side as possible.

Heck I would even consider solution where none of regular gear or comapnions work in pvp at all.
Let it have its own gear/wepons system (not working with pve) and separate boons system with tencity with it replacing combined ratings.
All characters would start on same level with only enchantments making difference.

Only that way it may provide some solid background for pvp with a chance to sustain its longevity.
Even now a new map wont help a new player to have even slim chance with my 26k+ toon.

So if devs are going to do serious rework it may work out - if not its waisted effort again.

And yeah - PVP is worth working on it cos if implemented correctly it can be self sustaining system.

Otherwise its just a matter of time to new kind of Cursebringer ring will appear and ruin pvp again.

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artifleur

Did you mean "PVP must be gone" ?

jonkoca

I've missed pvp in mod 16, hope mod17 goes some way to making it better.

kiraskytower

barbie#2808 said:

These are just a really small portion of PvP matches organized within the PVP community, as you can see something like this will never be achieved in a solo queue where the mentality is everyone for themselves...

Imo Premades was the COMPETITIVE side of this game, and not solo queue.

*Premade = a group formed of only 5 players with the intention to meet another group under the same circumnstances

a duo or a trio isn't a premade.

So if you ask me if Neverwinter Solo queue promotes anything? well only thing it promotes is toxicity towards PVP.

This is a classic case of "Be careful what you ask for ... you may get it". Before the solo queue premades wrecked everyone and everything in their path, making it impossible for anyone to PvP if you were not part of a premade. The usual match was premade vs 5 scrubs and it was a slaughter. It was so bad I remember several times queuing in with 4 of my guild members and having the other team all bail immediately upon seeing we all had the same guild tag. So the PvP community went the the forums "We want a solo queue! Premades are ruining PvP". After people asked for several modules in a row, the devs finally gave in and added a solo queue and after that the premade queue has been basically empty since ... Why? Because the premades didn't really want to fight each other, they enjoyed slaughtering the scrubs! In fact, premades would synch queue and use a few questionable tricks to all end up on the same team in a solo queue match so they could keep doing it.

If premades REALLY wanted to fight other premades, there is a queue JUST for that now ... and lets be honest, that queue is so empty and unused if you find another premade it's easy to make sure you end up in a match with them as there is NOBODY else in the queue. The solo queue has only killed the premade queue because the majority of people seem to prefer to play without premades .... and thus use the solo queue.

slysnow

Remove companions yes. Also patch Owlbear spam.

To the effect of dcs and pallies being unkillable to some add a pvp buff to some control powers that silences ALL (incoming and outgoing) healing for 5-10 secs, and one that can disable shields for the same duration.

I believe most toons have at least one control power be it stun, prone, freeze, daze etc. Tanks and healers would become immune after that duration for awhile. They would still be able to shield or heal but removes te unkillable aspect some complain about.

Tbh there should be hard caps on hp, how hard a crit can hit, and power. Remove active artifacts/mounts, 3 potions can be used per match, total (adds strategy and limits healing) Zero potions if you have a healer spec etc.

I rarely play anymore and only came back because a buddy asked to help him with the cw. 4 matches in pvp my cw with 300k hp is unkillable unless its 1v5 (and even then it took over 1 min). I didn't record it but my cw vs 1 bis sw, 1 bis hr, 1 bis tr, and 1 avg tr killed 3 and the other ran away in that 1v4. Keep going in this direction and no one will ever die.

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hustin1

kiraskytower said:

kalina311 said:

the dev already said live on twitch that 20% of the players of the game used to pvp so nice try
asside from the Fact that 50% of the games income used to come from pvp/pve hybrid players gearing up

can we say that 20% of players used the foundry ? which is much harder to maintain then pvp ..and how did they monetize the foundry ..? hint: they did not ...

P.S back in the day Pve players were PvP players too and vice versa ..that comprises a good chunk of the population that left and never came back

This is quite true - many of us used to PvP much more back before the balance issues were so severe and the disaster of tenacity gear basically made it nearly impossible for newer players to join in (The circular "you must have tenacity to PvP, You get kicked without Tenacity, You get tenacity from PvPing" was a very poor idea on the part of the devs).

Believe it or not, at one point PvPers were even civil ... going so far to trade caps when the match was lopsided. It wasn't always the imbalanced, toxic cesspool most PvEers think it is today. How to fix it? I'm not sure a new map and some new gear will make much difference, but it is a start.

That's why I'll never, EVER PvP. I've met too many hardcore PvP'ers out in the PvE world. I think it's the nature of the beast, as it were -- it attracts people of a certain callous/arrogant/condescending mindset. At least, that's been my experience over 5-1/2 years. No thanks.

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kiraskytower

barbie#2808 said:

I think you missunderstand pvp as a whole, or maybe you missreading situations, the only way i can agree with you is if you meet those solo quers that who will use drains and other advantages and send you PMs and harrass you, those are different than players that used to premade.. if by any chance in the future we will manage to built the pvp community i will definitely invite you to our inhouses and premades, just to make yourself an opinion of what you actually hate.

Wow .... you have either never PvPed or your memory of PvP before the solo queue is terrible. You can try to blame all of PvP's bad behavior on the solo queue, but the fact is the solo queue came about because of the bad behavior of premades. More than one I had guild members complain to me of premades who themselves used drains and would tell our people they would not allow them to trade caps because they used drains or whatever the "bad" gear of the moment was. I have personally seen premades from almost all of the major PvP guilds who used drains at one point or another (even though they would claim it was against the "rules" of PvP). I even had one PvP guild member threaten to have my entire guild banned because a member had used a drain in PvP, claiming it was against "Cryptic's Rules" to use them ... and the ironic thing is that as he was PMing me he had a pair of drains slotted in his own armor. I think everyone who has PvPed in NW has at least one tale of bad behavior coming from premades. It's not the queue .... it's many of the players.

The game needs a real system to report and ban abusive and bad players in PvP. It needed it 10 modules ago before everyone was driven off from PvP. And for the record - "Bad Behavior" is not using gear you dsilike or that your guild has decided they don't want to PvP against ... it's the abusive PMs, the vote kicking people from matches who are trying to do thier best, it's the "Trash talking" that crosses the line and other harassment of other players. If Cryptic had cracked down on that sort of thing back in Mod 5 or 6, PvP would still thrive today.

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treentbail21

For God's sake please make the classes with the range/ control and the best immunity frames with the best dodge mechanics do the least damage. There's no reason any class should do more dmg then a blademster barbarian in pvp heck we cant even run to keep up with anyone that's smart and dodges.

kalina311

kiraskytower said:

barbie#2808 said:

I think you missunderstand pvp as a whole, or maybe you missreading situations, the only way i can agree with you is if you meet those solo quers that who will use drains and other advantages and send you PMs and harrass you, those are different than players that used to premade.. if by any chance in the future we will manage to built the pvp community i will definitely invite you to our inhouses and premades, just to make yourself an opinion of what you actually hate.

Wow .... you have either never PvPed or your memory of PvP before the solo queue is terrible. You can try to blame all of PvP's bad behavior on the solo queue, but the fact is the solo queue came about because of the bad behavior of premades. More than one I had guild members complain to me of premades who themselves used drains and would tell our people they would not allow them to trade caps because they used drains or whatever the "bad" gear of the moment was. I have personally seen premades from almost all of the major PvP guilds who used drains at one point or another (even though they would claim it was against the "rules" of PvP). I even had one PvP guild member threaten to have my entire guild banned because a member had used a drain in PvP, claiming it was against "Cryptic's Rules" to use them ... and the ironic thing is that as he was PMing me he had a pair of drains slotted in his own armor. I think everyone who has PvPed in NW has at least one tale of bad behavior coming from premades. It's not the queue .... it's many of the players.

The game needs a real system to report and ban abusive and bad players in PvP. It needed it 10 modules ago before everyone was driven off from PvP. And for the record - "Bad Behavior" is not using gear you dsilike or that your guild has decided they don't want to PvP against ... it's the abusive PMs, the vote kicking people from matches who are trying to do thier best, it's the "Trash talking" that crosses the line and other harassment of other players. If Cryptic had cracked down on that sort of thing back in Mod 5 or 6, PvP would still thrive today.

The Game already has a system to deal with "problematic" pvp or pve players (for more sensitive casual players ) its called putting people on ignore / not looking at/ toggling the general tab conversations

trashtalking is part of any pvp esport.. going into peoples personal Facebook accounts and lives and saying doing things in public forums in channel is another story and line to cross all together and occurs in pvp and pve and there are already systems in place to deal with this ..pvp does not need a "special one" with a cometee formed with consensus to decide the fine line between trashtalking and bannable offenses ..especially when you get similar tells in pve as well

did you /would you ban such players in your own guild for "trash talking" people in pvp back in the day ? a certain level was permitted within the guild structure no ??

and if the answer is no you would not ban such people / tolerate a certain level if misbehavior in pvp ..there goes you whole argument out the window. what made your level of tolerance just the "right amount" then or were these player so out of control / so high up in your guild structure that there was nothing you could do without a mutiny ?

kalina311

@barbie
I can see i am in one of your videos posted : D cudos

kiraskytower

kalina311 said:

The Game already has a system to deal with "problematic" pvp or pve players (for more sensitive casual players ) its called putting people on ignore / not looking at/ toggling the general tab conversations

Blocking works for some of the issues, but not all. Sure, you don't have to hear what they are saying that way, but it still does not stop people from vote kicking new players or from "headhunting" them just to make their lives in PvP miserable. And while you CAN block a specific player, it still does nothing to solve the problem of the average "New PvPer" experience - where a new player is insulted repeatedly (often by your own teammates) and ultimately kicked. This sort of toxic behavior has basically driven off most of the new players who have tried to join in the past 2-3 years. It's a large part of the reason that right now the PvP queues are dead. It's a game and it's supposed to be fun and it's not going to be if your first experience is being insulted, instantly killed by someone 3 times your item level then vote kicked.

kalina311 said:

trashtalking is part of any pvp esport.. going into peoples personal Facebook accounts and lives and saying doing things in public forums in channel is another story and line to cross all together and occurs in pvp and pve and there are already systems in place to deal with this ..pvp does not need a "special one" with a cometee formed with consensus to decide the fine line between trashtalking and bannable offenses ..especially when you get similar tells in pve as well

did you /would you ban such players in your own guild for "trash talking" people in pvp back in the day ? a certain level was permitted within the guild structure no ??

and if the answer is no you would not ban such people / tolerate a certain level if misbehavior in pvp ..there goes you whole argument out the window. what made your level of tolerance just the "right amount" then or were these player so out of control / so high up in your guild structure that there was nothing you could do without a mutiny ?

Of course a certain amount of trash talking is expected in PvP - but there is a HUGE difference between a bit of friendly trash talking and some of the toxic comments which people get often get. I've even heard you say the exact same thing - If you will recall 3 years or so ago you came to me about a member of my guild (At the time I was the leader of Civil Anarchy) who was trash talking several members of your guild after a PvP match. It had gone well beyond the usual in match friendly trash talk and had progressed to accusations and arguments in PE. My response was to first give the member a warning and tell him to knock it off .... and then a few days later when he had not, I kicked him from the guild.

Now I admit, it's not always so easy to figure out where to draw the line, but I think all of us have seen people go over it (waaaaaaaay over it) and its hurt PvP and made most of the NW community avoid PvP like the plague. New maps or PvP gear probably won't bring anyone but the handful or remaining diehards back to PvP.

kiraskytower

barbie#2808 said:

What if Devs are going to remove all of the rewards from Private queue from Dungeons, so that everyone will have to use Public Queue, thats what Developers done to PVP

Private queue is the best feature this game has it, because you can play with your friends and work hard to it, if you cared about watching people on Twitch Stream, especially Sharpedge group, you can see their effort place togheter to finish that trial, that sort of effort was pretty common when we fought in PvP against other Premades.

I agree, private queue PvP should still have rewards - it's great fun to fight your friends and guildmates premade vs premade. Plus as you are building the groups you can make 2 evenly matched ones so you have a real match. Our alliance used to do basically this all the time using queue synching in Gauntilgrym to make a match in the public queue. It would be far simpler in the private queue.

Unfortunately, the Devs are worried this would be abused by people just farming rewards (and sadly, they are probably right).

cherryman1

I just want a PvP mode that gives the gear to do PvP but it removes all differences between everyone that you earn in game and only lets players use the PvP gear that they hand out to you at the start of the fight. The differences would be in what powers you use and class you picked to join and nothing else. This type of mode would bring in new players into the PvP community and keep a decent number of players coming into PvP. Having over powered players in PvP was the biggest reason I stopped trying to play it. Each new mod made a different class overpowered and the gearing up of other classes to play them in PvP was too much that I just stopped trying to do it all together. When you have people who can camp an entrance in PvP and one shot the players coming out of it that just makes for a poor PvP session. Having a single player be able to solo the entire other team is also something that just isn't right in PvP and turns off players. Also, the balance of teams isn't done well and having everyone in the same gear and baseline of abilities would allow for balancing of PvP queues based on wins and losses of the players. Having the entry point to get into the content be level 80 would mean that a lot more players would join into this mode. Add in the ability to win better gear from it and graduate into the current no holds bar geared out PvP queue and you would see more players in both types of PvP from a revitalization.

Having a small number of players with the best builds and gear that demolish the other players when entering PvP is going to continue to shrink the PvP population which is the current issue right now.

The broken items that over perform in PvP never get fixed quickly which pushes players out of PvP.

The group of players in PvP being so small that you see the same people over and over doesn't help grow that group. All it takes is one issue with a player your going to see in every queue and you just lost a player who plays PvP.

Making the PvP be limited to players who either put thousands of dollars into the game or thousands of hours is a big issue. Playing with friends who don't have the same financial or time commitment into the game as me makes it hard to play with those same players. Not playing with your friends makes it so much easier to leave the game for players.

All they need to do in pvp is allow for some skins of items be purchasable with zen and PvP campaign currencies from playing PvP and earning achievements in PvP. Say that you can purchase weapon/armor enchants rank 12 for 3000 zen and 200 hours of PvP time (made in currencies). Rank 12 enchantment packs for 2000 zen and 50 hours in PvP time (currencies). Just imagine the amount of players trying to get into PvP when a sale comes up to purchase those items.

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