You’re entitled to an opinion, just like the rest of us.
But opinions are not facts.
Those of us that spend a lot of time playing tank paladins at the pointy end of the game have a lot of evidence to draw from and it always looks like this;
Good group = Lower Tank Damage
Bad Group = Higher Tank Damage
PUGs can range from awesome groups to absolutely terrible groups. The tanks damage will reflect that in the hands of a good player.
I’ve gotten into RLQ with a second tank and they have been at the bottom of the table while I’ve been at the top with the 3 DPS between. Random queues are a data point, but they do not tell you much about the classes at all.
when i say random groups i dont mean random queue, i mean the group i get is random because i queue for the dungeon publicly. i don't do RLQ RIQ RAQ or REQ
and i'm not just talking about the dungeons i do with public groups, even in private groups that friends make i notice this same trend of paladin tank doing more dps then actual dps classes.
People in RLQ RIQ RAQ REQ will be put into group with those who que public for specific dungeons. Doesnt matter what public que u use, its all the same players.
If ur experience is with premade groups that the majority of times the paladin will beat dps classes. Well u premade with bad dps the majority of ur runs then. And its still not a fault of the paladin, the paladin still doesnt need nerf, the dps classes doesnt need buffs. U cant blame class balance just because u chose to run with the worst of the worst who doesnt know how to play at all what so ever.
nothing, but the problem is in the balance. for example paladin tank is "support" in your view. so then any non dps is support right? so a healer is "support". my problem is that 1 support is doing 3-4 times the dps of any other "support"....cleric has a dps path, and if i run that path i can barely do more dps then a paladin. if i run healer they do easily 2-3 times my dps. i've yet to see a single fighter tank that didnt come in last on the chart for damage dealt.
I got tossed into eToS for a random queue and was under 100k out of being in first on the paingiver....on my healer cleric running almost full heals.
Are you telling me that the heal cleric is doing too much DPS because I beat out the "real dps" classes? No, I think the takeaway from it was that these randoms had HAMSTER DPS. Comparing your pally to random people is the worst way you could possibly test something. Let's not even leave off the fact that if you don't control the testing you have no idea what you're testing against. 4 morons? 4 badly built toons? Just silly.
You post around about content being too easy in one thread than saying you can't beat the first boss in LOMM cause it was too hard in another. You belittle someone's theoretical math in one thread while salivating over the paingiver (a universally mocked method of testing) in another.
Warlocks have no AOE, Cleric DPS is bad, I really don't know what game you are playing but I'm starting to see a consistent pattern and it's not the classes.
I had problems with the first boss of lomm because for one it was buggy when it first came out and for 2 i kept getting bad dps. I've beaten it fine with a good team. I'm not comparing my pally to anything. all i did was mention that I have a paladin. Salavating over paingiver? sorry but i don't recall this. I said I thought it was there to see who did the most damage, and that I personally have always used it to compare damage.
we're all entitled to our own opinions, you don't have to agree with me, but mocking and berating someone is bad manners....and also just plain rude.
Ive done several 100 LoMM since day one. Only ever seen 2 bugs. Augments didnt give stats correctly after cutscene, update pet fixed this so was no reason for fails. Some times the mimics go on endless mode and unless u had very strong group it would be easier to wipe and just start over.
For bad dps, well thats ur own choice really. Ive done LoMM will just about the bare minimum DPS. I was on tank, i had to solo mimics in my corner. All other 3 dps was low dps, but had just enough to kill their mimics. The run was pretty smooth though, 50 min, 1 wipe at first boss. And i ended top dps on my tank.
so what was the point of this post? to say your paladin was top paingiver in lomm?
My fighter can do the same, with equally dps classes in group. This doesnt mean fighter tanks is to high dmg either. All it proves is that some arent playing their classes optimal. And neither of my tanks are BiS on everything. They are well geared, but my less geared warlock have no isses beating them on dmg.
And no that wasnt to say i had gotten top dps on a tank, thats not really anything special. It was to say yet again, u cant judge the how well the class is performing based on what u see from randoms, and sometimes even in private groups.
Again, if u wanna judge a class performance, u need to have controlled setup, somewhat equally geared players and the test subjects need to know what they are doing. And what u see outside of a real test isnt evidence of imbalanced class. Its most of the time evidence of good a player is.
You’re entitled to an opinion, just like the rest of us.
But opinions are not facts.
Those of us that spend a lot of time playing tank paladins at the pointy end of the game have a lot of evidence to draw from and it always looks like this;
Good group = Lower Tank Damage
Bad Group = Higher Tank Damage
PUGs can range from awesome groups to absolutely terrible groups. The tanks damage will reflect that in the hands of a good player.
I’ve gotten into RLQ with a second tank and they have been at the bottom of the table while I’ve been at the top with the 3 DPS between. Random queues are a data point, but they do not tell you much about the classes at all.
when i say random groups i dont mean random queue, i mean the group i get is random because i queue for the dungeon publicly. i don't do RLQ RIQ RAQ or REQ
and i'm not just talking about the dungeons i do with public groups, even in private groups that friends make i notice this same trend of paladin tank doing more dps then actual dps classes.
People in RLQ RIQ RAQ REQ will be put into group with those who que public for specific dungeons. Doesnt matter what public que u use, its all the same players.
If ur experience is with premade groups that the majority of times the paladin will beat dps classes. Well u premade with bad dps the majority of ur runs then. And its still not a fault of the paladin, the paladin still doesnt need nerf, the dps classes doesnt need buffs. U cant blame class balance just because u chose to run with the worst of the worst who doesnt know how to play at all what so ever.
saying people who do public groups are the worst of the worst is just wrong, i encounter players from all skill levels. even see some of our "famous" streamers in my random public dungeon runs.
I didnt say public group was the worst of the worst. I said U run with the worst of the worst in the majority of ur runs. And thats why u think the paladin is to strong. U said in ur premade groups the paladin does more dmg than dps. U said in randoms the paladin beats dps often. If a decent player have equal stats to the paladin, the dps will not lose. If they do, they cant call themselves a decent player. So for u to have this view of the paladin doing to much dmg, u must run with the worst of the worst the majority of ur runs.
Can there be good and strong players in random ques? Yes ofc, but in my experience thats more of the exception.
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If ur experience is with premade groups that the majority of times the paladin will beat dps classes. Well u premade with bad dps the majority of ur runs then. And its still not a fault of the paladin, the paladin still doesnt need nerf, the dps classes doesnt need buffs. U cant blame class balance just because u chose to run with the worst of the worst who doesnt know how to play at all what so ever.
And no that wasnt to say i had gotten top dps on a tank, thats not really anything special. It was to say yet again, u cant judge the how well the class is performing based on what u see from randoms, and sometimes even in private groups.
Again, if u wanna judge a class performance, u need to have controlled setup, somewhat equally geared players and the test subjects need to know what they are doing. And what u see outside of a real test isnt evidence of imbalanced class. Its most of the time evidence of good a player is.
Can there be good and strong players in random ques? Yes ofc, but in my experience thats more of the exception.