"hellfire ring" - If you use the mobs all are curse, but when hellfire ring is already on the ground the mobs that enter the circle they do not have curse, this should be adjusted!
I can consider myself endgame, I made all possible combinations. The gameplay is great as well as aoe and single, what I think is that our tab needs to improve, need more dmg at least when it is full of sparks, it is necessary to increase our magnitude is clear that in comparison to other dps ours is well below.
Hadar's Grasp it is necessary to reduce the time of casting, is the only way to get Stake Risk Investiment 5x faster, usually not of the time, the boss usually when it is 2x or 3x already doing some mechanics, there ends up losing the buff of the Risk Investiment.
[Fiery Bolt] - magnitude 125 up to 250 [Hellfire Ring] - 180 up for 300 [Curse Bite] - 150 up for 225 [Killing Flames] - 400-600 up for 700-1000 [Tyrannical Curse] - 800 15% more dmg - up for 1000 20% more dmg
Maybe then we would be more competitive in dps!
The warlocks is competitive in DPS. Tab doesnt need to do much dmg, it increases ur dmg by a little bit, and when u have 18 souls u use it to reduce CD by 3 sec. And by doing that u have no problem keeping up risky investment. Some phases where u have nothing to hit u will lose stacks, and that sucks. But most of the time its not a problem.
Magnitude dmg is lower on warlock. Very low compared to other classes. But they can reduce their own CD. I dont think any other classes can do that, so instead of looking on a single target cast, u need to look at magnitude / sec on ur powers. And if u use the CD reduction correctly u will see that its higher, and plenty high to compete with other DPS classes.
Lets just take Curse bit for instance. CD is 10.3 sec for me with 5.3% CD reduction from CHA. So thats 150 + 75 from feat, every 10 sec. Once im full on sparks i use tab, and then it takes be about 10 sec to get full again. And since Curse bit have 2 stacks, it will always get the 3 sec CD. Making the curse bit 225 magnitude every 7.3 sec instead, so thats 30.8 mag / sec. Not counting the curse dmg, or the soulspark dmg, both are low, but its still dmg. My rogue have lashing blade for 49.5 mag / sec, but without any extra dmg being added. My fighter is even better at 56.3 mag / sec. Yet when u compare them in a run and their dmg against each other, it will be the fighter who does worst. With warlock and rogue being close, but rogue is better. I also have years of running on rogue, and only weeks on warlock so i could be a lot better on that side.
So no, u cant just compare magnitude on powers and from that see what class is good dps and whats bad. U need real tests. And i mean tests, not just running randomly in groups and seeing u always to worse than everyone else. And if u do that real test, u will see that the warlock can keep up with other dps just fine, and in some cases beat them too.
No one mentioned the targeting on Hellfire ring? Where it throws the camera behind you, and you end up casting on yourself? Also, no aoe when mobs run into the cast ring, if you don't hit them with the initial hit. Auto targeting is broken there, it needs to target highest threat or nearest mob.
I dont have this problem on my warlock. Targeting doesnt change my camera setting. I can aim it away, or on myself how ever i want to. I dont use aim assist so would know about that one.
@fyrstigor I'm not saying that dps is bad, just not competitive. When you dispute with a CW, Hr, TR and even a Barb of the same level full rank 15 with the orcus combo and the items of 3% of dmg, you will see that Sw has no way to dispute Dps with them.
It is precisely in its lower magnetude. I have all classes and I play with all, example Cw resets the cd much faster than sw, but in order. What I mean is that when you're in the endgame disputing with another dps endgame, the sw is not going to win. Note: when you are with the sparks full you can use 2 soul scort reduction of 2 sec CD.
> @fyrstigor said: > So no, u cant just compare magnitude on powers and from that see what class is good dps and whats bad. U need real tests. And i mean tests, not just running randomly in groups and seeing u always to worse than everyone else. And if u do that real test, u will see that the warlock can keep up with other dps just fine, and in some cases beat them too.
I did a Lot of testing. I didnt write this post just to cry. Compared with Equal geared cw stands behind 10% in dps. and i use envenomed journal and doohickey and the cw not. Also with similar equipped tr and hr. All premade for test and not random ppl.
Note apart, im leveling up a fighter now because i wanted to test it for myself. Yeah its a pain to keep an eye on vengance but until now im feeling it better than the Warlock. 2 fully functional paths and interesting mechanics. When i get it fulled i surely will switch to it if the Warlock remains unchanged
Note apart no 2, to whom said that i have to wait for mod 17 for pvp changes, well mod 17 came to preview and its more of the same for my poor warlock
@martins#2911 When tab is used u get 1 sec off from every 6 souls used, max used is 18. So 3 sec every 10 sec. Ur video cant play for me.
@gonzakotwi No one should compare against a CW, their DPS is broken right now. The feat for smolder makes smolder do 30-40% total dmg. And the 30% is what ive seen from CWs who have 160k+ power. So if ur only 10% behind ur doing pretty damm well. I havnt seen anyone beat a CW yet, and dont think i ever will with how things are atm. They simply do way to much dmg from nothing.
Did u use ACT on ur test, cause in LoMM a lot of the dmg comes from AoE and mobs. So something like the CW, HR, TR can pretty quickly get a lead on mobs if they get there first. On single target is where its at.
On first and last boss they tend to move around a lot, the other classes have to spend time on moving around to get CA. The warlock doesnt, they can just stand still and get it from feat. This does give them a bit of advantage on moving bosses.
I like the fighter, i think its fun to play both tank and dps. For the dps part once ur over 50% in battle u get to 100 on its own if u chose the feats for it, so not hard. But my higher geared fighter with demo set cant beat my lesser geared warlock without demo set.
I have been beaten by 1 good warlock in my guild on my rogue. He got somewhere between 10-20k power more than me. Everything else is pretty much the same, artifacts, tene, % dmg and such. And i was beaten by more than the % of the extra power. And no im not a bad rogue, i beat almost anyone i see even those with higher power, and i dont use doohikey.
I dont argue that the warlock is hard to do good dmg with. But it is possible. And getting it buffed so that it does more dmg than the CW isnt a balance. Right now SW, HR, TR is pretty close in dmg when all build to the max they can. What should be done is nerf the CW smolder dmg with about 25% or something so that it would be max 20% of a wizards total dmg. That would put the wizard in range of the others. And those 4 dps classes would be so well balanced in the first time ever since launch of the game that everyone should be happy.
@fyrstigor I must be doing something wrong so when there are full sparks, I can cast 2x soul scort giving CD 1 secs each for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cw can be broken yes! But I saw Barb passing the dmg of Cw and HR also in the same level of IL, our premeide is all full rank 15 mount legentary, party that ends Lomm 18 to 20 min at the maximum.
I do tests with ACT, several ways to increase dmg.
"It is an abusive other dps to have encounters with greater magnitude than our daily. I say again need to increase our magnitude."
*Note* I haven't read this entire thread, just skimmed it. I have played an SW since it first became available and is my main. After a large struggle (for me) I was able to get to a point where I could endgame and pretty well. Since Mod16 dropped, the biggest thing I have noticed is that our powers seem to be low as if we were able to Tab-Curse as before, we would be an asset, not an detriment to must groups. I watch my fellow players who are geared nearly the same as I, all but "melt" mobs while because of the low magnitude of our powers, we are almost forced to sideline and provide support damage which just makes you feel weak and unwanted. If all of our powers got somewhere around a 25-40% boost in magnitude, it make things a little more even. Cheers!
We Need An At-will Aoe(and not aoe on the 3rd cast that's a joke everything is dead before the 2nd let alone 3rd attack hits, and one extra way to summon a soul puppet however you guys decide to do that, its all Sws need
Will be just cool if we can have combat adv bonus like melee all ranged class on ps4 have t stay so close and i still not see all the time my ca dmg im 118k ca for nothing so sad
for first, tab power is suck. it's too low too slow and also its need a target that's absolutely not playable. Clerics and Paladins don't need any enemy for praying.
sugestion: of corse you may make it better with fast cast and bigger dmg and heal. But i rather have some buff for outgoing healing or dmg resistence. Because most of time when you trying to get sparks by tab it always falls because of control and mob dyin. I also will be happy with some control immunity (like Rogue)
Clerics and Pals have a strong healing spells with 800 (!) - 500 mgn. when Warlock have the biggest healing with magnitude 400 (!) Healing word have mgn 500 +200 added. but Storm only 200 heal mgn. Also Clerics and Pals have powers like Lay on Hands that helps in critical moments. Warlocks not.
pillar of power heals with mgn 20. Tab have mgn 35. Vampire Embrace doesn't work.Immortal Spirits hits 60 mgn. Clerics at-wills are 70 (!) mgn. and Warlock can't heal yourself by hands.
On Paladins and Clerics we can easy increase Damage deal. By Exaltig or passive powers or Divine Judgement. And its really ok with their Damage. But Warlock haven't any good dmg in SoulWeaver. Warlock is much weaker now. 5% dmg with passive power (and this is only normal passive) when Exalt have 20% buf.
need more passive powers for sparks, for heal increase. for healler.
I think PoP needs Dmg and much bigger healing. like old Pillar with Templock's healing. I think feats should have sence. Lindering Sustance 150[6 sec when Cleric's Gardian heals for 500 (!) for 5 times. Cleric's and Pals have feats for dmg. Warlocks haven't feats even for heal.
PS: I playing by Cleric since m3 or m4. I have a Warlock since m6 and also have some dunno-paladino for 'rock'n'nroll' I was played by Templock early. I know how heals Clerics and how heals Paladines. Pal = easymode. Warlock = Deathmode.
@fyrstigor I must be doing something wrong so when there are full sparks, I can cast 2x soul scort giving CD 1 secs each for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cw can be broken yes! But I saw Barb passing the dmg of Cw and HR also in the same level of IL, our premeide is all full rank 15 mount legentary, party that ends Lomm 18 to 20 min at the maximum.
I do tests with ACT, several ways to increase dmg.
"It is an abusive other dps to have encounters with greater magnitude than our daily. I say again need to increase our magnitude."
I just tested soul scorch, it gives me about 3 sec off, its hard to gauge, but sometimes i see the timer jump 3 sec, sometimes only 2. But it does help and i do feel the difference quite a lot. Specially on single target with keeping risky investment up.
U saw the barbie pass their dmg over all? or on a boss? When a party is that high geared who ever gets to the mobs first, and gets the first hit in will most likely win the DPS race even though their class isnt as good as the other classes. If everything is dead the others can do dmg.
I dont know ur group, so i can speak to if they are good players or not. The majority of barbies i see do low dmg compared to any other class at their itemlvl (20-23k).
I mainly use Tyrannical curse for my daily on warlock. Its magnitude is only 800. So upfront dmg isnt as high as others. But for the next 20 sec, i do 15% more dmg to them. And everyone else around the target also takes 15% of the dmg i do to the target. Yes this doesnt help for single target. But the increased dmg does, and it makes up for the loss in magnitude.
Its different classes, they have different kits. If u dont like the kit ur warlock because its dont identical to other dps classes, why dont u drop ur warlock then and swap to those others? I for one like that everyone class isnt the same kit, that there is some variation to them.
Take a look at tanks. The paladin have a single target daily for 1500 magnitude, the fighter tanks dont have a single target daily, their best is AoE for 580 magnitude. Some times it sucks, but other things in their kits makes them different to play. And yet they both tank very well, they both do good dmg on the side. Stop wanting to make all classes identical.
I do think the warlock is one of the more difficult classes to make compete in dmg. But i dont think the class should be buffed based on that.
Since I can´t see any kind of attention towards Soulweaver with it´s obvious bugs and broken/underperforming mechanics, unable to absolve endcontent compareable to other healerclasses, I can´t think of any fixes/improvements towards Hellbringer in time even though it would cost small efforts to improve it. Small buffs to some powers here and there, improvement for sparkgain esp. Hadar Grasp, a buff towards aoe-damage from Fiery Bolt, a small raise of KF basedamage, a second spell to stack RI-buff etc.
I am not aware of the average CA-uptime for other classes tbh. From my observation CA is pretty hard to keep up without classfeature like NPNM, if you do no perfect positioning all time. Actually the class only seems to survive due this one classfeature where other don´t generate CA that simple. Not tested myself, but if you drop NPNM the class should be far below others in terms of damage.
Since I can´t see any kind of attention towards Soulweaver with it´s obvious bugs and broken/underperforming mechanics, unable to absolve endcontent compareable to other healerclasses, I can´t think of any fixes/improvements towards Hellbringer in time even though it would cost small efforts to improve it. Small buffs to some powers here and there, improvement for sparkgain esp. Hadar Grasp, a buff towards aoe-damage from Fiery Bolt, a small raise of KF basedamage, a second spell to stack RI-buff etc.
I am not aware of the average CA-uptime for other classes tbh. From my observation CA is pretty hard to keep up without classfeature like NPNM, if you do no perfect positioning all time. Actually the class only seems to survive due this one classfeature where other don´t generate CA that simple. Not tested myself, but if you drop NPNM the class should be far below others in terms of damage.
U are correct in 1 thing. If u dont use the best possible setup u cant perform the best possible way. That someone refuse to use the best setup shouldnt get the class buffed, since those of us who do, will then become beats and all other classes will complain and wants buffs. Those who doesnt wanna use the best setups deserve to have HAMSTER dmg forever.
Since I can´t see any kind of attention towards Soulweaver with it´s obvious bugs and broken/underperforming mechanics, unable to absolve endcontent compareable to other healerclasses, I can´t think of any fixes/improvements towards Hellbringer in time even though it would cost small efforts to improve it. Small buffs to some powers here and there, improvement for sparkgain esp. Hadar Grasp, a buff towards aoe-damage from Fiery Bolt, a small raise of KF basedamage, a second spell to stack RI-buff etc.
I am not aware of the average CA-uptime for other classes tbh. From my observation CA is pretty hard to keep up without classfeature like NPNM, if you do no perfect positioning all time. Actually the class only seems to survive due this one classfeature where other don´t generate CA that simple. Not tested myself, but if you drop NPNM the class should be far below others in terms of damage.
U are correct in 1 thing. If u dont use the best possible setup u cant perform the best possible way. That someone refuse to use the best setup shouldnt get the class buffed, since those of us who do, will then become beats and all other classes will complain and wants buffs. Those who doesnt wanna use the best setups deserve to have HAMSTER dmg forever.
If you don´t see a problem with a classfeature that buffs your dps by up to 70% if used and just drops your dps to underwhelming numbers I can´t help. This is no good setup for a class and only indicates how poorly designed things are in general. Same counts for an Oathkeeper, centered arround Divine Touch and assoiciated crits from two feats like Critical Touch and EoW-> oneway setup.
Did you compare healingclasses in terms of playability ? Soulweaver is a path that is from no interest at all, stuffed with bugs and underwhelming feature/powers. Actually I consider the path as a complete waste of time.
@fyrstigor I must be doing something wrong so when there are full sparks, I can cast 2x soul scort giving CD 1 secs each for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cw can be broken yes! But I saw Barb passing the dmg of Cw and HR also in the same level of IL, our premeide is all full rank 15 mount legentary, party that ends Lomm 18 to 20 min at the maximum.
I do tests with ACT, several ways to increase dmg.
"It is an abusive other dps to have encounters with greater magnitude than our daily. I say again need to increase our magnitude."
U saw the barbie pass their dmg over all? or on a boss? When a party is that high geared who ever gets to the mobs first, and gets the first hit in will most likely win the DPS race even though their class isnt as good as the other classes. If everything is dead the others can do dmg. I dont know ur group, so i can speak to if they are good players or not. The majority of barbies i see do low dmg compared to any other class at their itemlvl (20-23k).
I mainly use Tyrannical curse for my daily on warlock. Its magnitude is only 800. So upfront dmg isnt as high as others. But for the next 20 sec, i do 15% more dmg to them. And everyone else around the target also takes 15% of the dmg i do to the target. Yes this doesnt help for single target. But the increased dmg does, and it makes up for the loss in magnitude.
Take a look at tanks. The paladin have a single target daily for 1500 magnitude, the fighter tanks dont have a single target daily, their best is AoE for 580 magnitude. Some times it sucks, but other things in their kits makes them different to play. And yet they both tank very well, they both do good dmg on the side. Stop wanting to make all classes identical.
I do think the warlock is one of the more difficult classes to make compete in dmg. But i dont think the class should be buffed based on that.
About Barbies I would agree in general, they look significant weaker in my average runs, even tough their singel dps is not that bad I'd say. Imo the biggest difference results from the fact that they have an issue to target spread mobgroups and need to "run mad" to keep up with others
Talking about TC for AoE instead of Accursed Souls tells a lot about your gameplay. In my runs AC, depending on crit or not, near twohits mobs (hit->crit->CA and LC+10% dps-> 2. hit-> near dead) , running TC with that laggy animation is waste, bosses excludet.
If you compare a GF vs Paladin tank the diffenrence is significant in terms of dps imo, depending on the player by sure. The best Paladin i run with dealt 44mio in lomm compared to my 66 mio, first was a top geared CW at 78 i guess or 87mio-forgot. I did not see any GF actually dealing a compareable ammount of dps.
About dps/aoe from CW same as TR I would like to meet you again, one day after you did maybe some more experiences outside your friendlist. I´d say TR can compete with CW's aoe to some point, TR get´s CA in short, CW can even do massive aoe without 24/7 CA from my observation, nothing a warlock could hold against.... the longer the fight lasts CW simply runs out of sight.
There is nohing difficult about a warlock compared to other classes concerning gameplay, there are only few options for a dps-setup and you have to press the same ammount of buttons more or less.
About CD reset you have to look for Hunter and CW, both are capable to lower CD significant from what I know.
Since I can´t see any kind of attention towards Soulweaver with it´s obvious bugs and broken/underperforming mechanics, unable to absolve endcontent compareable to other healerclasses, I can´t think of any fixes/improvements towards Hellbringer in time even though it would cost small efforts to improve it. Small buffs to some powers here and there, improvement for sparkgain esp. Hadar Grasp, a buff towards aoe-damage from Fiery Bolt, a small raise of KF basedamage, a second spell to stack RI-buff etc.
I am not aware of the average CA-uptime for other classes tbh. From my observation CA is pretty hard to keep up without classfeature like NPNM, if you do no perfect positioning all time. Actually the class only seems to survive due this one classfeature where other don´t generate CA that simple. Not tested myself, but if you drop NPNM the class should be far below others in terms of damage.
U are correct in 1 thing. If u dont use the best possible setup u cant perform the best possible way. That someone refuse to use the best setup shouldnt get the class buffed, since those of us who do, will then become beats and all other classes will complain and wants buffs. Those who doesnt wanna use the best setups deserve to have HAMSTER dmg forever.
If you don´t see a problem with a classfeature that buffs your dps by up to 70% if used and just drops your dps to underwhelming numbers I can´t help. This is no good setup for a class and only indicates how poorly designed things are in general. Same counts for an Oathkeeper, centered arround Divine Touch and assoiciated crits from two feats like Critical Touch and EoW-> oneway setup.
Technically it doesnt buff ur dmg by anything. U can move around, position urself to CA and u dont need the feat. The feat just makes it easier, u can stand still and worry about timing ur CD reduction and powers instead of having to worry about moving. But if u can move urself and still do the other things, using this feat actually lowers ur dmg compared to other feats.
So no i dont see any issues with this feat. Fighters have a feat that makes an atwill do 3x more dmg. I use that as secondary atwill, and only use it when it procs. This atwill is like 20% of my total dmg in a run. Talk about messed up feats having to much impact, look at that one. Or the smolder one for wizards. This one for warlock is nothing but a feat to make it easier to play really.
Did you compare healingclasses in terms of playability ? Soulweaver is a path that is from no interest at all, stuffed with bugs and underwhelming feature/powers. Actually I consider the path as a complete waste of time.
Ive said somewhere that i think soulweaver needs some love. Right now its no where close to the ability of healing as the other 2. So no one wants them.
@fyrstigor I must be doing something wrong so when there are full sparks, I can cast 2x soul scort giving CD 1 secs each for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cw can be broken yes! But I saw Barb passing the dmg of Cw and HR also in the same level of IL, our premeide is all full rank 15 mount legentary, party that ends Lomm 18 to 20 min at the maximum.
I do tests with ACT, several ways to increase dmg.
"It is an abusive other dps to have encounters with greater magnitude than our daily. I say again need to increase our magnitude."
U saw the barbie pass their dmg over all? or on a boss? When a party is that high geared who ever gets to the mobs first, and gets the first hit in will most likely win the DPS race even though their class isnt as good as the other classes. If everything is dead the others can do dmg. I dont know ur group, so i can speak to if they are good players or not. The majority of barbies i see do low dmg compared to any other class at their itemlvl (20-23k).
I mainly use Tyrannical curse for my daily on warlock. Its magnitude is only 800. So upfront dmg isnt as high as others. But for the next 20 sec, i do 15% more dmg to them. And everyone else around the target also takes 15% of the dmg i do to the target. Yes this doesnt help for single target. But the increased dmg does, and it makes up for the loss in magnitude.
Take a look at tanks. The paladin have a single target daily for 1500 magnitude, the fighter tanks dont have a single target daily, their best is AoE for 580 magnitude. Some times it sucks, but other things in their kits makes them different to play. And yet they both tank very well, they both do good dmg on the side. Stop wanting to make all classes identical.
I do think the warlock is one of the more difficult classes to make compete in dmg. But i dont think the class should be buffed based on that.
About Barbies I would agree in general, they look significant weaker in my average runs, even tough their singel dps is not that bad I'd say. Imo the biggest difference results from the fact that they have an issue to target spread mobgroups and need to "run mad" to keep up with others
Talking about TC for AoE instead of Accursed Souls tells a lot about your gameplay. In my runs AC, depending on crit or not, near twohits mobs (hit->crit->CA and LC+10% dps-> 2. hit-> near dead) , running TC with that laggy animation is waste, bosses excludet.
If you compare a GF vs Paladin tank the diffenrence is significant in terms of dps imo, depending on the player by sure. The best Paladin i run with dealt 44mio in lomm compared to my 66 mio, first was a top geared CW at 78 i guess or 87mio-forgot. I did not see any GF actually dealing a compareable ammount of dps.
About dps/aoe from CW same as TR I would like to meet you again, one day after you did maybe some more experiences outside your friendlist. I´d say TR can compete with CW's aoe to some point, TR get´s CA in short, CW can even do massive aoe without 24/7 CA from my observation, nothing a warlock could hold against.... the longer the fight lasts CW simply runs out of sight.
There is nohing difficult about a warlock compared to other classes concerning gameplay, there are only few options for a dps-setup and you have to press the same ammount of buttons more or less.
About CD reset you have to look for Hunter and CW, both are capable to lower CD significant from what I know.
I havnt seen many barbie do strong dmg on either AoE or single target. I also dont run with many of them who are top geared and good players. So that might have something to do with it. I have seen a few do strong dmg, so i know its possible. I just dont know how.
I do use AS daily as secondary daily. But most times i just save TC for the bosses i know is coming up. Most times i dont need the dailies on adds anyway. But also depends on the mobs. If i know they big guy will survive a bit (low dps groups) i some times use TC on adds, sometimes i do AS, it depends. But most times i just save for bosses.
I have both fighter and paladin about same geared. The paladin have far better AoE dmg. But the fighter have better single target. And both my tanks do good dmg on groups. Very good dmg if they run with equally geared DPS. But most fighters i have seen are so focused on defense that they dont do much of any dps. Where doing dps on paladin seems more natural cause they use the tank tree for dps in solo.
I run with all different kinds of skill level of players. I mainly run with my guild / alliance. So its players in all ranges. Some 25k no dmg. Some 20k lots of dmg. Ive seen good, ive seen bad. I also run with players i know are very good and can push their toon to the absolute best. But yes, if the rogue have enough power, they can oneshot most groups if they get to them first, and that means no dmg for anyone else. I generally dont care about mobs dmg when i run dungeons myself, cause that part is more about who gets there first, than it is about who has the better dmg (on higher geared groups ofc)
If warlock would be easy, so many wouldnt have problems doing high dmg. If they pick from feats, or if they use wrong powers idk. The hardest part for me about the warlock is to get maximum CD reduction from soul scorch, and even so, its not really hard, i just gotta pay a little attention.
> @fyrstigor said: > Guys by now we should just accept that SW wont be top dps anymore, its been 6 mods since we were. Just reroll to CW and everything will be fine. > > Some of u warlocks will not be and never where. Some of us will be and where.
If you are that confident in your Warlock then lets run lomm together ok? I would love to be shown that im doing stuff wrong and there is still stuff to improve about my warlock.
Beside the fact that a warlock is not on top of dps (but also not at the bottom), a missing timeable dodge as a squishy casterclass same as the allready mentioned problem about getting stuck on At-Will animation makes things worse. No, I am aware of the actual weaknesses same as needed improvements (esp Soulweaver), but I am also realistic enough to know that there is no chance to get anything happen like that. So much time wasted on preview/forum, asking for small improvements to recognize that 99% of input was ignored at best. Beside all that, I think mod 17 looks like being dedicated towards skilled player with top gear. You can´t do random runs without being connected via dicord/chat since tomm wants you to react ever 5 seconds towards tons of different deadly aoe effects. Now i understand what people ment, saying: "this is gonna be solved by about 0,1% at best" For me mod 17 is not about wich class I play, beside the fact that I never would spend 1000's of dollar to swap over to CW in a game that runs 80% of time in beta modus, but more about "How do I find enough player to get that dungeon finished at all?"
If you watch latest vid from sharpedge on preview, you can see how good CD-reduction works on a CW actually. The argument about CD reduction as a big plus for a warlock is simply from no impact, not to talk about sparkgain being pretty bad in general except running your warlock as a melee class spamming HoB all time. Nice run! 1.+2. CW, 3. hunter, 4. TR , 5. CW again I guess, 6. no clue, 7. Oathkeeper far above tanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdJkldhOLI
I really believe that there will be changes in Sw, my main is Sw and I will not change! I have all the classes, but what I like the most is without a doubt is Sw.
I would love to know the developers' thoughts on all the feedback!
> Guys by now we should just accept that SW wont be top dps anymore, its been 6 mods since we were. Just reroll to CW and everything will be fine.
>
> Some of u warlocks will not be and never where. Some of us will be and where.
If you are that confident in your Warlock then lets run lomm together ok? I would love to be shown that im doing stuff wrong and there is still stuff to improve about my warlock.
Sure. My warlock is only a little alt to mess around with Only 120k power and 100k CA. But i have not had any issues competing with equally geared other DPS classes on it so far. My handle is @fyrst_igor, feel free to hit my up.
So...time goes by and now mod 17 is on the corner, yet again with a dungeon/trialwhere as a Soulweaver you will absolutely never get in!!! Seriously, does anybody reads atleast all these suggestions? Atleast tell us that you dont care us/or this class at all and nothing gonna change in the next weeks/months/years. Gonna be hard to eat the leek and go to play another class...
Again I repeat i can do good damage (not equal to other dps classes as i stated), I can do lomm easy bc i spent the time in giving the optimum setup for my class (you can check my char is the same name as my forum nick), where other classes run with underperforming gear and easily get the same numbers i get. Building the warlock at the moment is like walking into a mine field, on each step you have the oportunity to stay alive or completely destroy your dps. And thats not the idea that the devs had on mod 16, where they removed feats to reduce the bad decisions one can take. Apart from that, i do use act on my tests. I will look for the logs when i have some time. But all the runs ended in the 2 most relevant sources of damage being killing flames of course, and DOOHICKEY. Its hard for anyone to not get invited to queues only because of your class. I do my job, not as well as other classes, but it gets done. But many warlocks dont and when they get in queue i see them even get passed by tanks. And thats because of bad decisions taken. All that talking about hellbringer, i dont have soulweaver loadout as its useless
My first LoMM was at 100k power. 90k CA, and had to put on stuff to just get itemlvl to enter. My warlock was less than a week old at that point. I had no issues killing mimics. I had no issues doing expected dmg for my stats or beat tanks. And i didnt use doohickey. I had it as backup in case i needed for mimics but that was it.
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
My first LoMM was at 100k power. 90k CA, and had to put on stuff to just get itemlvl to enter. My warlock was less than a week old at that point. I had no issues killing mimics. I had no issues doing expected dmg for my stats or beat tanks. And i didnt use doohickey. I had it as backup in case i needed for mimics but that was it.
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
I dont base my statments on Lomm, lomm is very very easy, but on the experience i made when testing the new trial with sharpedge and the others on preview just so u know. I dont expect u to be able to judge how the Peak performance of Warlock looks compared with the best of the other classes since u are far away from that, but from what i read u arent in the best position to judge how much the Warlock is lacking at the top end. To do more or equal to 99% of other players in the game says nothing about how much the warlock is behind or ahead, because players in this game have so vastly different levels of skill.
My first LoMM was at 100k power. 90k CA, and had to put on stuff to just get itemlvl to enter. My warlock was less than a week old at that point. I had no issues killing mimics. I had no issues doing expected dmg for my stats or beat tanks. And i didnt use doohickey. I had it as backup in case i needed for mimics but that was it.
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
I dont base my statments on Lomm, lomm is very very easy, but on the experience i made when testing the new trial with sharpedge and the others on preview just so u know. I dont expect u to be able to judge how the Peak performance of Warlock looks compared with the best of the other classes since u are far away from that, but from what i read u arent in the best position to judge how much the Warlock is lacking at the top end. To do more or equal to 99% of other players in the game says nothing about how much the warlock is behind or ahead, because players in this game have so vastly different levels of skill.
ToMM have been out for about 4 days. U guys have all capped ur stats on preview and become masters of the new mechanics where no one fails and dies ? Well done. That LoMM is easy doesnt mean its not a good way to test things though. No matter what itemlvl u are at. U just have to look at the test differently and excluded something like adds on strong groups.
I have a strong rogue, that beats the majority of anyone ive ever gone with. That one have been beaten by a warlock. So yes i do have some knowledge about how they are at endgame and how strong they can be fully geared out. But even so, once u get the stats capped, all classes scale pretty much the same from having tons of power. So if my warlock can keep up at current power levels, it can keep up at high power too.
Yes players do have a lot of different levels of skill. Thats why i base my observations on both what i see vs players of worse skill, about the same, and some with more. Its based on observations with different classes different stats. Some more, some less. Ive seen way more bad warlocks than i have seen bad ones. Still doesnt mean the class is broken.
I am happy that u are able to play with the players u think is amount the top 1% or less of all players. That u are to bad to keep up with them doesnt mean the class needs buffs though.
My first LoMM was at 100k power. 90k CA, and had to put on stuff to just get itemlvl to enter. My warlock was less than a week old at that point. I had no issues killing mimics. I had no issues doing expected dmg for my stats or beat tanks. And i didnt use doohickey. I had it as backup in case i needed for mimics but that was it.
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
I dont base my statments on Lomm, lomm is very very easy, but on the experience i made when testing the new trial with sharpedge and the others on preview just so u know. I dont expect u to be able to judge how the Peak performance of Warlock looks compared with the best of the other classes since u are far away from that, but from what i read u arent in the best position to judge how much the Warlock is lacking at the top end. To do more or equal to 99% of other players in the game says nothing about how much the warlock is behind or ahead, because players in this game have so vastly different levels of skill.
ToMM have been out for about 4 days. U guys have all capped ur stats on preview and become masters of the new mechanics where no one fails and dies ? Well done. That LoMM is easy doesnt mean its not a good way to test things though. No matter what itemlvl u are at. U just have to look at the test differently and excluded something like adds on strong groups.
I have a strong rogue, that beats the majority of anyone ive ever gone with. That one have been beaten by a warlock. So yes i do have some knowledge about how they are at endgame and how strong they can be fully geared out. But even so, once u get the stats capped, all classes scale pretty much the same from having tons of power. So if my warlock can keep up at current power levels, it can keep up at high power too.
Yes players do have a lot of different levels of skill. Thats why i base my observations on both what i see vs players of worse skill, about the same, and some with more. Its based on observations with different classes different stats. Some more, some less. Ive seen way more bad warlocks than i have seen bad ones. Still doesnt mean the class is broken.
I am happy that u are able to play with the players u think is amount the top 1% or less of all players. That u are to bad to keep up with them doesnt mean the class needs buffs though.
yes we capped our stats... on preview u have basicly unlimited resources so thats not hard to do...
Well u dont really get it right? Even if my or your SW outdpses 99.9% of the playerbase that doesnt mean HAMSTER. U have to compare the best of each classes. Im not saying SW cant do dps, but a 20% difference is still a 20% difference. If you are on PC then lets do a run together, if you are doubting that my sw is any good. Only because u outdpsed some mediocere players that doenst mean SW is on even footing with lets say the cw.
My first LoMM was at 100k power. 90k CA, and had to put on stuff to just get itemlvl to enter. My warlock was less than a week old at that point. I had no issues killing mimics. I had no issues doing expected dmg for my stats or beat tanks. And i didnt use doohickey. I had it as backup in case i needed for mimics but that was it.
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
I dont base my statments on Lomm, lomm is very very easy, but on the experience i made when testing the new trial with sharpedge and the others on preview just so u know. I dont expect u to be able to judge how the Peak performance of Warlock looks compared with the best of the other classes since u are far away from that, but from what i read u arent in the best position to judge how much the Warlock is lacking at the top end. To do more or equal to 99% of other players in the game says nothing about how much the warlock is behind or ahead, because players in this game have so vastly different levels of skill.
ToMM have been out for about 4 days. U guys have all capped ur stats on preview and become masters of the new mechanics where no one fails and dies ? Well done. That LoMM is easy doesnt mean its not a good way to test things though. No matter what itemlvl u are at. U just have to look at the test differently and excluded something like adds on strong groups.
I have a strong rogue, that beats the majority of anyone ive ever gone with. That one have been beaten by a warlock. So yes i do have some knowledge about how they are at endgame and how strong they can be fully geared out. But even so, once u get the stats capped, all classes scale pretty much the same from having tons of power. So if my warlock can keep up at current power levels, it can keep up at high power too.
Yes players do have a lot of different levels of skill. Thats why i base my observations on both what i see vs players of worse skill, about the same, and some with more. Its based on observations with different classes different stats. Some more, some less. Ive seen way more bad warlocks than i have seen bad ones. Still doesnt mean the class is broken.
I am happy that u are able to play with the players u think is amount the top 1% or less of all players. That u are to bad to keep up with them doesnt mean the class needs buffs though.
yes we capped our stats... on preview u have basicly unlimited resources so thats not hard to do...
Well u dont really get it right? Even if my or your SW outdpses 99.9% of the playerbase that doesnt mean HAMSTER. U have to compare the best of each classes. Im not saying SW cant do dps, but a 20% difference is still a 20% difference. If you are on PC then lets do a run together, if you are doubting that my sw is any good. Only because u outdpsed some mediocere players that doenst mean SW is on even footing with lets say the cw.
CW is somewhat highly tuned at the moment, so I wouldn't even bring it up in this conversation. I consider it more of an outlier tbh, and I expect that the devs will either bring it down a tad or try to elevate the other DPS slightly to narrow the gap. We'll see.
The back-and-forth on Warlock has been going since M16 went live. My bottom line is that Hellbringer could use some further QoL tweaks and has too many useless powers, but some people around here have been pushing the narrative that it's a bad DPS when it clearly is not. Sometimes I find that these people are using non-synergistic powers, gearing strangely, or making some other mistakes that seriously tank their DPS output, and then blaming their problems on the base class design rather than reevaluating their approach.
Soulweaver has way more issues than Hellbringer, but its disadvantages are hugely exaggerated on the forums. I agree with the consensus that it needs serious changes and an overall buff, but it's not completely unplayable by any means; it simply can't carry with the effortlessness of Devout and Oathkeeper for the kind of mechanic found at the Bore Worm, where you have repeated soaks with limited or no ways to recover Sparks.
It's fine to suggest improvement to Warlock in some areas, and no, it's not currently at the same level as, say, CW, but not much of anything else is at the moment. IMO the devs need to be careful with Warlock adjustments, because a tweak here or there could easily push it into overtuned status.
As for the discussion around the alleged top 0.1% of the playerbase...yes and no. You can make the argument that these players and their characters represent the pinnacle of performance for their respective classes (which is sometimes true and sometimes not), and that has some relevance to game design. On the other hand, the developers need to be concerned more with the other 99.9% of the population and their experiences with the game. Those of us with an abundance of high-ranking enchantments and equipment generally don't have a pressing need to buy Zen, because we are already rich in AD and other assets. Hence, Cryptic probably cares a good deal more about the experience Average Joe or Jane Player is having, and they are very far away from caring about theorycraft or about end-game testing. This is part of why I now spend less time arguing that Warlock isn't in a terrible place, because apparently something is causing more than a handful of players to struggle. If they can address whatever that is without making Warlock ridiculously strong, I'm all for it.
Comments
Magnitude dmg is lower on warlock. Very low compared to other classes. But they can reduce their own CD. I dont think any other classes can do that, so instead of looking on a single target cast, u need to look at magnitude / sec on ur powers. And if u use the CD reduction correctly u will see that its higher, and plenty high to compete with other DPS classes.
Lets just take Curse bit for instance. CD is 10.3 sec for me with 5.3% CD reduction from CHA. So thats 150 + 75 from feat, every 10 sec. Once im full on sparks i use tab, and then it takes be about 10 sec to get full again. And since Curse bit have 2 stacks, it will always get the 3 sec CD. Making the curse bit 225 magnitude every 7.3 sec instead, so thats 30.8 mag / sec. Not counting the curse dmg, or the soulspark dmg, both are low, but its still dmg. My rogue have lashing blade for 49.5 mag / sec, but without any extra dmg being added. My fighter is even better at 56.3 mag / sec. Yet when u compare them in a run and their dmg against each other, it will be the fighter who does worst. With warlock and rogue being close, but rogue is better. I also have years of running on rogue, and only weeks on warlock so i could be a lot better on that side.
So no, u cant just compare magnitude on powers and from that see what class is good dps and whats bad. U need real tests. And i mean tests, not just running randomly in groups and seeing u always to worse than everyone else. And if u do that real test, u will see that the warlock can keep up with other dps just fine, and in some cases beat them too.
I'm not saying that dps is bad, just not competitive.
When you dispute with a CW, Hr, TR and even a Barb of the same level full rank 15 with the orcus combo and the items of 3% of dmg, you will see that Sw has no way to dispute Dps with them.
It is precisely in its lower magnetude.
I have all classes and I play with all, example Cw resets the cd much faster than sw, but in order.
What I mean is that when you're in the endgame disputing with another dps endgame, the sw is not going to win.
Note: when you are with the sparks full you can use 2 soul scort reduction of 2 sec CD.
I have a lot of video races so check it out.
> So no, u cant just compare magnitude on powers and from that see what class is good dps and whats bad. U need real tests. And i mean tests, not just running randomly in groups and seeing u always to worse than everyone else. And if u do that real test, u will see that the warlock can keep up with other dps just fine, and in some cases beat them too.
I did a Lot of testing. I didnt write this post just to cry. Compared with Equal geared cw stands behind 10% in dps. and i use envenomed journal and doohickey and the cw not. Also with similar equipped tr and hr. All premade for test and not random ppl.
Note apart, im leveling up a fighter now because i wanted to test it for myself. Yeah its a pain to keep an eye on vengance but until now im feeling it better than the Warlock. 2 fully functional paths and interesting mechanics. When i get it fulled i surely will switch to it if the Warlock remains unchanged
Note apart no 2, to whom said that i have to wait for mod 17 for pvp changes, well mod 17 came to preview and its more of the same for my poor warlock
When tab is used u get 1 sec off from every 6 souls used, max used is 18. So 3 sec every 10 sec.
Ur video cant play for me.
@gonzakotwi
No one should compare against a CW, their DPS is broken right now. The feat for smolder makes smolder do 30-40% total dmg. And the 30% is what ive seen from CWs who have 160k+ power. So if ur only 10% behind ur doing pretty damm well. I havnt seen anyone beat a CW yet, and dont think i ever will with how things are atm. They simply do way to much dmg from nothing.
Did u use ACT on ur test, cause in LoMM a lot of the dmg comes from AoE and mobs. So something like the CW, HR, TR can pretty quickly get a lead on mobs if they get there first. On single target is where its at.
On first and last boss they tend to move around a lot, the other classes have to spend time on moving around to get CA. The warlock doesnt, they can just stand still and get it from feat. This does give them a bit of advantage on moving bosses.
I like the fighter, i think its fun to play both tank and dps. For the dps part once ur over 50% in battle u get to 100 on its own if u chose the feats for it, so not hard. But my higher geared fighter with demo set cant beat my lesser geared warlock without demo set.
I have been beaten by 1 good warlock in my guild on my rogue. He got somewhere between 10-20k power more than me. Everything else is pretty much the same, artifacts, tene, % dmg and such. And i was beaten by more than the % of the extra power. And no im not a bad rogue, i beat almost anyone i see even those with higher power, and i dont use doohikey.
I dont argue that the warlock is hard to do good dmg with. But it is possible. And getting it buffed so that it does more dmg than the CW isnt a balance. Right now SW, HR, TR is pretty close in dmg when all build to the max they can. What should be done is nerf the CW smolder dmg with about 25% or something so that it would be max 20% of a wizards total dmg. That would put the wizard in range of the others. And those 4 dps classes would be so well balanced in the first time ever since launch of the game that everyone should be happy.
I must be doing something wrong so when there are full sparks, I can cast 2x soul scort giving CD 1 secs each for me. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Cw can be broken yes!
But I saw Barb passing the dmg of Cw and HR also in the same level of IL, our premeide is all full rank 15 mount legentary, party that ends Lomm 18 to 20 min at the maximum.
I do tests with ACT, several ways to increase dmg.
"It is an abusive other dps to have encounters with greater magnitude than our daily. I say again need to increase our magnitude."
here are the videos:
https://www.twitch.tv/julio_martins10/videos
I have played an SW since it first became available and is my main. After a large struggle (for me) I was able to get to a point where I could endgame and pretty well. Since Mod16 dropped, the biggest thing I have noticed is that our powers seem to be low as if we were able to Tab-Curse as before, we would be an asset, not an detriment to must groups.
I watch my fellow players who are geared nearly the same as I, all but "melt" mobs while because of the low magnitude of our powers, we are almost forced to sideline and provide support damage which just makes you feel weak and unwanted.
If all of our powers got somewhere around a 25-40% boost in magnitude, it make things a little more even.
Cheers!
U saw the barbie pass their dmg over all? or on a boss? When a party is that high geared who ever gets to the mobs first, and gets the first hit in will most likely win the DPS race even though their class isnt as good as the other classes. If everything is dead the others can do dmg.
I dont know ur group, so i can speak to if they are good players or not. The majority of barbies i see do low dmg compared to any other class at their itemlvl (20-23k).
I mainly use Tyrannical curse for my daily on warlock. Its magnitude is only 800. So upfront dmg isnt as high as others. But for the next 20 sec, i do 15% more dmg to them. And everyone else around the target also takes 15% of the dmg i do to the target. Yes this doesnt help for single target. But the increased dmg does, and it makes up for the loss in magnitude.
Its different classes, they have different kits. If u dont like the kit ur warlock because its dont identical to other dps classes, why dont u drop ur warlock then and swap to those others? I for one like that everyone class isnt the same kit, that there is some variation to them.
Take a look at tanks. The paladin have a single target daily for 1500 magnitude, the fighter tanks dont have a single target daily, their best is AoE for 580 magnitude. Some times it sucks, but other things in their kits makes them different to play. And yet they both tank very well, they both do good dmg on the side. Stop wanting to make all classes identical.
I do think the warlock is one of the more difficult classes to make compete in dmg. But i dont think the class should be buffed based on that.
Small buffs to some powers here and there, improvement for sparkgain esp. Hadar Grasp, a buff towards aoe-damage from Fiery Bolt, a small raise of KF basedamage, a second spell to stack RI-buff etc.
I am not aware of the average CA-uptime for other classes tbh. From my observation CA is pretty hard to keep up without classfeature like NPNM, if you do no perfect positioning all time.
Actually the class only seems to survive due this one classfeature where other don´t generate CA that simple. Not tested myself, but if you drop NPNM the class should be far below others in terms of damage.
This is no good setup for a class and only indicates how poorly designed things are in general. Same counts for an Oathkeeper, centered arround Divine Touch and assoiciated crits from two feats like Critical Touch and EoW-> oneway setup.
Did you compare healingclasses in terms of playability ? Soulweaver is a path that is from no interest at all, stuffed with bugs and underwhelming feature/powers. Actually I consider the path as a complete waste of time. About Barbies I would agree in general, they look significant weaker in my average runs, even tough their singel dps is not that bad I'd say. Imo the biggest difference results from the fact that they have an issue to target spread mobgroups and need to "run mad" to keep up with others
Talking about TC for AoE instead of Accursed Souls tells a lot about your gameplay.
In my runs AC, depending on crit or not, near twohits mobs (hit->crit->CA and LC+10% dps-> 2. hit-> near dead) , running TC with that laggy animation is waste, bosses excludet.
If you compare a GF vs Paladin tank the diffenrence is significant in terms of dps imo, depending on the player by sure.
The best Paladin i run with dealt 44mio in lomm compared to my 66 mio, first was a top geared CW at 78 i guess or 87mio-forgot. I did not see any GF actually dealing a compareable ammount of dps.
About dps/aoe from CW same as TR I would like to meet you again, one day after you did maybe some more experiences outside your friendlist.
I´d say TR can compete with CW's aoe to some point, TR get´s CA in short, CW can even do massive aoe without 24/7 CA from my observation, nothing a warlock could hold against.... the longer the fight lasts CW simply runs out of sight.
There is nohing difficult about a warlock compared to other classes concerning gameplay, there are only few options for a dps-setup and you have to press the same ammount of buttons more or less.
About CD reset you have to look for Hunter and CW, both are capable to lower CD significant from what I know.
So no i dont see any issues with this feat. Fighters have a feat that makes an atwill do 3x more dmg. I use that as secondary atwill, and only use it when it procs. This atwill is like 20% of my total dmg in a run. Talk about messed up feats having to much impact, look at that one. Or the smolder one for wizards. This one for warlock is nothing but a feat to make it easier to play really. Ive said somewhere that i think soulweaver needs some love. Right now its no where close to the ability of healing as the other 2. So no one wants them. I havnt seen many barbie do strong dmg on either AoE or single target. I also dont run with many of them who are top geared and good players. So that might have something to do with it. I have seen a few do strong dmg, so i know its possible. I just dont know how.
I do use AS daily as secondary daily. But most times i just save TC for the bosses i know is coming up. Most times i dont need the dailies on adds anyway. But also depends on the mobs. If i know they big guy will survive a bit (low dps groups) i some times use TC on adds, sometimes i do AS, it depends. But most times i just save for bosses.
I have both fighter and paladin about same geared. The paladin have far better AoE dmg. But the fighter have better single target. And both my tanks do good dmg on groups. Very good dmg if they run with equally geared DPS. But most fighters i have seen are so focused on defense that they dont do much of any dps. Where doing dps on paladin seems more natural cause they use the tank tree for dps in solo.
I run with all different kinds of skill level of players. I mainly run with my guild / alliance. So its players in all ranges. Some 25k no dmg. Some 20k lots of dmg. Ive seen good, ive seen bad. I also run with players i know are very good and can push their toon to the absolute best. But yes, if the rogue have enough power, they can oneshot most groups if they get to them first, and that means no dmg for anyone else. I generally dont care about mobs dmg when i run dungeons myself, cause that part is more about who gets there first, than it is about who has the better dmg (on higher geared groups ofc)
If warlock would be easy, so many wouldnt have problems doing high dmg. If they pick from feats, or if they use wrong powers idk. The hardest part for me about the warlock is to get maximum CD reduction from soul scorch, and even so, its not really hard, i just gotta pay a little attention.
> Guys by now we should just accept that SW wont be top dps anymore, its been 6 mods since we were. Just reroll to CW and everything will be fine.
>
> Some of u warlocks will not be and never where. Some of us will be and where.
If you are that confident in your Warlock then lets run lomm together ok? I would love to be shown that im doing stuff wrong and there is still stuff to improve about my warlock.
No, I am aware of the actual weaknesses same as needed improvements (esp Soulweaver), but I am also realistic enough to know that there is no chance to get anything happen like that. So much time wasted on preview/forum, asking for small improvements to recognize that 99% of input was ignored at best.
Beside all that, I think mod 17 looks like being dedicated towards skilled player with top gear. You can´t do random runs without being connected via dicord/chat since tomm wants you to react ever 5 seconds towards tons of different deadly aoe effects. Now i understand what people ment, saying: "this is gonna be solved by about 0,1% at best"
For me mod 17 is not about wich class I play, beside the fact that I never would spend 1000's of dollar to swap over to CW in a game that runs 80% of time in beta modus, but more about "How do I find enough player to get that dungeon finished at all?"
If you watch latest vid from sharpedge on preview, you can see how good CD-reduction works on a CW actually.
The argument about CD reduction as a big plus for a warlock is simply from no impact, not to talk about sparkgain being pretty bad in general except running your warlock as a melee class spamming HoB all time.
Nice run! 1.+2. CW, 3. hunter, 4. TR , 5. CW again I guess, 6. no clue, 7. Oathkeeper far above tanks.
I have all the classes, but what I like the most is without a doubt is Sw.
I would love to know the developers' thoughts on all the feedback!
@strumslinger
@terramak
Apart from that, i do use act on my tests. I will look for the logs when i have some time. But all the runs ended in the 2 most relevant sources of damage being killing flames of course, and DOOHICKEY.
Its hard for anyone to not get invited to queues only because of your class. I do my job, not as well as other classes, but it gets done. But many warlocks dont and when they get in queue i see them even get passed by tanks. And thats because of bad decisions taken.
All that talking about hellbringer, i dont have soulweaver loadout as its useless
I have 6% ranged dmg, i have shadowstalker +5, i have spy guild for 5% dmg. The 6% and the shadow stalker is not what is making or breaking my toon. I could do just as well without them. I use the musicbox set, so no demo bonus. I have no pet powers for extra dmg, its all just random HAMSTER flat stat powers i had or got cheap.
Only thing that changed since my first LoMM was getting 20k more power and 10k more CA. Neither made a huge impact, just a little bit.
Does my warlock have less dmg than several other classes in the first 2 sec in combat? Yes. Can i keep up in longer fights? Yes. If ur warlock is losing in dmg because most mobs are dead in the first 2 sec on combat, that doesnt mean the warlock is in a bad state. That means the warlock needs longer fights to shine. Welcome to difference in how classes do and are played. Stop making them all the same and start to enjoy the variations.
They made feats more simple. They gave us less options. But that doesnt mean everything is good. Most stuff on other classes have big difference too. Or everything is just trash. So why complain that the warlock have good feats if u have the skill to read and pick the right ones?
I dont expect u to be able to judge how the Peak performance of Warlock looks compared with the best of the other classes since u are far away from that, but from what i read u arent in the best position to judge how much the Warlock is lacking at the top end.
To do more or equal to 99% of other players in the game says nothing about how much the warlock is behind or ahead, because players in this game have so vastly different levels of skill.
I have a strong rogue, that beats the majority of anyone ive ever gone with. That one have been beaten by a warlock. So yes i do have some knowledge about how they are at endgame and how strong they can be fully geared out. But even so, once u get the stats capped, all classes scale pretty much the same from having tons of power. So if my warlock can keep up at current power levels, it can keep up at high power too.
Yes players do have a lot of different levels of skill. Thats why i base my observations on both what i see vs players of worse skill, about the same, and some with more. Its based on observations with different classes different stats. Some more, some less. Ive seen way more bad warlocks than i have seen bad ones. Still doesnt mean the class is broken.
I am happy that u are able to play with the players u think is amount the top 1% or less of all players. That u are to bad to keep up with them doesnt mean the class needs buffs though.
Well u dont really get it right? Even if my or your SW outdpses 99.9% of the playerbase that doesnt mean HAMSTER. U have to compare
the best of each classes.
Im not saying SW cant do dps, but a 20% difference is still a 20% difference.
If you are on PC then lets do a run together, if you are doubting that my sw is any good.
Only because u outdpsed some mediocere players that doenst mean SW is on even footing with lets say the cw.
The back-and-forth on Warlock has been going since M16 went live. My bottom line is that Hellbringer could use some further QoL tweaks and has too many useless powers, but some people around here have been pushing the narrative that it's a bad DPS when it clearly is not. Sometimes I find that these people are using non-synergistic powers, gearing strangely, or making some other mistakes that seriously tank their DPS output, and then blaming their problems on the base class design rather than reevaluating their approach.
Soulweaver has way more issues than Hellbringer, but its disadvantages are hugely exaggerated on the forums. I agree with the consensus that it needs serious changes and an overall buff, but it's not completely unplayable by any means; it simply can't carry with the effortlessness of Devout and Oathkeeper for the kind of mechanic found at the Bore Worm, where you have repeated soaks with limited or no ways to recover Sparks.
It's fine to suggest improvement to Warlock in some areas, and no, it's not currently at the same level as, say, CW, but not much of anything else is at the moment. IMO the devs need to be careful with Warlock adjustments, because a tweak here or there could easily push it into overtuned status.
As for the discussion around the alleged top 0.1% of the playerbase...yes and no. You can make the argument that these players and their characters represent the pinnacle of performance for their respective classes (which is sometimes true and sometimes not), and that has some relevance to game design. On the other hand, the developers need to be concerned more with the other 99.9% of the population and their experiences with the game. Those of us with an abundance of high-ranking enchantments and equipment generally don't have a pressing need to buy Zen, because we are already rich in AD and other assets. Hence, Cryptic probably cares a good deal more about the experience Average Joe or Jane Player is having, and they are very far away from caring about theorycraft or about end-game testing. This is part of why I now spend less time arguing that Warlock isn't in a terrible place, because apparently something is causing more than a handful of players to struggle. If they can address whatever that is without making Warlock ridiculously strong, I'm all for it.
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