People being what people are, to give out too much ability to be bad to each other invariably leads to abuse.
While I agree the bot/afk situation is unfortunate, it does not seem to me as being that bad. It happens, but not very often.
The best solution might be to just live with it rather than introducing new mechanisms that will be abused in new and imaginative ways, leading to new mechanisms etc etc ad infinitum.
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lantern22Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,111Arc User
Thats your opinion, and only an opinion. If you had just hit a "Disagree" button instead of writing that out it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest.
Nor would I have any desire to know further what you disagreed with if you just hit a button.
There are plenty of people willing to write out their opinion and interact with. If some don't feel the need or have the time it's really not a big deal.
This is true, but obviously enough people disagreed with that assessment, and, well, here we are with no "Disagree" button under posts now.
Well actually, it probably only took one or two people who run these forums to make that decision. Wasn't exactly a community poll about it. Excessive molly coddling if you ask me, but . . . . . whatever, I guess
When they run circles around the campfire and periodically move to where they can check on everyone's progress, it's a leech. When they park themselves on top of the reward chest or where it's going to appear then stand there 'til the end, it's a leech. When they're motionless the entire match, then sprint over to the chest the moment the match ends, it's a leech. When they whip out their stupid looking throne and lounge there at the edge of combat, it's a leech. When they park themselves behind an object for the entire match like the Throne in TotDG, it's a leech. When they dismiss their companion at the start of the match, and run from every mob, it's a leech. When they don't lift a finger in a skirmish or move a single inch until the boss, it's a leech. When their companion contributes more than they do, it's a leech.
we need the ability immediately on entering any team based instance, to vote out a player, not have to wait 5 minutes, or not the ability at all as in Ndemo/Edemo. it is highly unlikely that during any vote to /kick, a legitimate player would receive enough yes votes to be team kicked for an unsubstantiated reason. /kick votes are only initiated for valid reasons in my experience, and it only takes one dissenter to halt it.... its worse now that you can queue for demo for 15-20 minutes, enter but be unable to start for 5 minutes while someone is afk and stood outside the circle...and then try to complete it with afk'ers dead at the fire waiting while 7 of you have a bad time completing the dungeon only to get silver or bronze.
again..please for the love of god...give us the ability to kick from the start, or remove the ability to open chests from players that have a zero damage count at the end.
The reason why we have a vote timer in the first place is because legitimate players WERE being kicked from content.
The timer is too long. How many times do 5 or 10 players have to wait 5 or more minutes while there buffs eat up cause some player loaded in but got a phone call... or... cant connect.
If a player is AFK at the start or can't connect after a minute of trying.. they should be auto-kicked by the game or at least we should be allowed to kick them. Only problem i see is that if the timer gets too short, then elitist bully-types WILL try to kick classes and players they don't like immediately.
To me... 3 minutes before kick allowance is a perfect compromise.
A player who disconnects before gating up should automatically be forced to abandon. Sometimes it's a legitimate connection issue. Sometimes it's because they're a horrible person. Either way, punishing four or more people who are ready and waiting is less fair than punishing the one person with a problem
People being what people are, to give out too much ability to be bad to each other invariably leads to abuse.
While I agree the bot/afk situation is unfortunate, it does not seem to me as being that bad. It happens, but not very often.
The best solution might be to just live with it rather than introducing new mechanisms that will be abused in new and imaginative ways, leading to new mechanisms etc etc ad infinitum.
While there is Wisdom in what you say... it does not apply here. Your argument is good advice for situations which are complicated and volatile... but bad for simple situations with a clear problem. Everyone "hates" waiting for AFK players. Any player that is AFK or does not load in within a minute will live to fight another day if they are kicked. Its not like they are losing anything. This is a quality-of-game-experience issue. Easy to improve. Improving the game's quality increases sales. All we lack is programmer action.
A player who disconnects before gating up should automatically be forced to abandon. Sometimes it's a legitimate connection issue. Sometimes it's because they're a horrible person. Either way, punishing four or more people who are ready and waiting is less fair than punishing the one person with a problem
So four other players "punishing-" (that's the appropriate term since they've been kicked from the instance) one player for something that isn't there fault and beyond their control is OK, but "inconveniencing-" four players (and again that's what it is an "inconvenience" not a "punishment" which is defined as an intentional punitive act) since in almost every case the quest can usually still be completed and the same rewards can be collected - just not as quickly.
Calling a pigs ear a silk purse - does not make it a silk purse and calling the inconvenience of party members having to wait a couple of minutes for someone(s) to resolve connection issues a punishment - does not make it a punishment.
At least have the courtesy to call it what it is, instead of thinking others will believe it is something else entirely just because you say so... A good many people are smarter than that.
Someone decides another player wasn't performing in a manner they approved of, through no fault of their own and absent any nefarious intent, but they were still kicked out.
New players kicked out because they turned left to explore (or open a chest) instead or right to complete the run more quickly. Players with slower connection speed kicked out because someone decided they didn't want the inconvenience of having to wait for them to connect, A vote to kick because some players weren't doing enough damage, didn't have the right kind of gear, were "too slow", etc.
This is exactly the kinds of behavior that saw the kick timer implemented in the first place and why the cool-down timer is set as it is... I think you've just made a very good case for not only keeping current configuration for the the kick timer, and I thank you for that.
I'm not going to pedantically parse definitions with you. Call it whatever you want. Sure felt like a punishment yesterday when four of us stood outside the gate at Throne watching someone disconnect, reconnect over and over again, so there's no way he's going to time out. Long enough for three kick votes to be put up only to be struck down by someone with a soft heart and an even softer head. I really should have timed it, I guess. It ended with one player abandoning, and the other two disconnecting. All the while the original disconnect pops in and out.
By this time I've got the game on mute, and my character's sitting by the fire while I read a book, waiting for everyone to finish timing out so I can go in and request reinforcements. Except for the disconnect who finally gets things together enough to lag his way to the gate. So yeah, he was having legitimate issues, but I wasn't in the mood to play with him at that point, so I abandoned too. And that costs time too you know.
I spent nearly ten minutes, maybe a little more queuing originally, waiting, abandoning, logging back in, and requeuing - all because someone else had a problem. But I'm the bad guy for wanting to go ahead and play. As for the "inconvenience" as you call it, every one of the four players forced to wait wound up having to bail and try again. So ironically, they were the ones who got kicked.
lol - whatever
Maybe it's just a difference in mentality, but I was raised to respect other people's time. I don't keep people waiting, and I resent it a bit when other people treat my time like it's worthless.
What's the limit for you, anyway, @dionchi ? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? An hour? How long are you willing to wait for someone else before you kick? Forever?
What i have seen is people logging 2 machines on and then having one of their characters follow the other in a dungeon, I've seen this 3-4 times.
This might explain something I've noticed a few times now in skirmishes. A player on my block list shows up with another player from the same obscure guild. I'm not even certain they both move at the same time. One parks itself out of harms way while the other one plays. Any attempt to kick the AFK character is instantly shot down.
I already knew there were guilds and alliances out there with a lousy reputation for leeching, but I could never understand why one player would purposely queue with someone who planned on leeching just to ensure he/she doesn't get kicked. I just couldn't understand that mentality. It makes a lot more sense if it's the same player parking an alt while he/she plays with the other.
Had a really bad experience with a leech guild yesterday. Told the one playing to get lost 'cause we didn't need him and received some really nasty Rated-M for Mature comments in return. So I'm trying to remind myself of two things from now on:
1) When a blocked player shows up in the queue - check to see if there's another from the same guild. If there is - abandon the queue. 2) Avoid full instances in zones and queuing before the end of the workday. There seem to be a lot more toxic/immature players around during that part of the day - of course there would be when you think about it.
I did the leveling dungeon dead legion and there was a guy who came ( waiting at the cf inside) in the fight when the last boss almost was dead. I would like that u can kick those people they don't deserve a rewards taking advantage of the others in the team.
Comments
While I agree the bot/afk situation is unfortunate, it does not seem to me as being that bad. It happens, but not very often.
The best solution might be to just live with it rather than introducing new mechanisms that will be abused in new and imaginative ways, leading to new mechanisms etc etc ad infinitum.
When they run circles around the campfire and periodically move to where they can check on everyone's progress, it's a leech.
When they park themselves on top of the reward chest or where it's going to appear then stand there 'til the end, it's a leech.
When they're motionless the entire match, then sprint over to the chest the moment the match ends, it's a leech.
When they whip out their stupid looking throne and lounge there at the edge of combat, it's a leech.
When they park themselves behind an object for the entire match like the Throne in TotDG, it's a leech.
When they dismiss their companion at the start of the match, and run from every mob, it's a leech.
When they don't lift a finger in a skirmish or move a single inch until the boss, it's a leech.
When their companion contributes more than they do, it's a leech.
If a player is AFK at the start or can't connect after a minute of trying.. they should be auto-kicked by the game or at least we should be allowed to kick them. Only problem i see is that if the timer gets too short, then elitist bully-types WILL try to kick classes and players they don't like immediately.
To me... 3 minutes before kick allowance is a perfect compromise.
Sometimes it's a legitimate connection issue. Sometimes it's because they're a horrible person. Either way, punishing four or more people who are ready and waiting is less fair than punishing the one person with a problem
Calling a pigs ear a silk purse - does not make it a silk purse and calling the inconvenience of party members having to wait a couple of minutes for someone(s) to resolve connection issues a punishment - does not make it a punishment.
At least have the courtesy to call it what it is, instead of thinking others will believe it is something else entirely just because you say so... A good many people are smarter than that.
Someone decides another player wasn't performing in a manner they approved of, through no fault of their own and absent any nefarious intent, but they were still kicked out.
New players kicked out because they turned left to explore (or open a chest) instead or right to complete the run more quickly. Players with slower connection speed kicked out because someone decided they didn't want the inconvenience of having to wait for them to connect, A vote to kick because some players weren't doing enough damage, didn't have the right kind of gear, were "too slow", etc.
This is exactly the kinds of behavior that saw the kick timer implemented in the first place and why the cool-down timer is set as it is... I think you've just made a very good case for not only keeping current configuration for the the kick timer, and I thank you for that.
Yeah, no.
I'm not going to pedantically parse definitions with you. Call it whatever you want.
Sure felt like a punishment yesterday when four of us stood outside the gate at Throne watching someone disconnect, reconnect over and over again, so there's no way he's going to time out. Long enough for three kick votes to be put up only to be struck down by someone with a soft heart and an even softer head. I really should have timed it, I guess. It ended with one player abandoning, and the other two disconnecting. All the while the original disconnect pops in and out.
By this time I've got the game on mute, and my character's sitting by the fire while I read a book, waiting for everyone to finish timing out so I can go in and request reinforcements. Except for the disconnect who finally gets things together enough to lag his way to the gate. So yeah, he was having legitimate issues, but I wasn't in the mood to play with him at that point, so I abandoned too. And that costs time too you know.
I spent nearly ten minutes, maybe a little more queuing originally, waiting, abandoning, logging back in, and requeuing - all because someone else had a problem. But I'm the bad guy for wanting to go ahead and play. As for the "inconvenience" as you call it, every one of the four players forced to wait wound up having to bail and try again. So ironically, they were the ones who got kicked.
lol - whatever
Maybe it's just a difference in mentality, but I was raised to respect other people's time. I don't keep people waiting, and I resent it a bit when other people treat my time like it's worthless.
What's the limit for you, anyway, @dionchi ? 15 minutes? 20 minutes? An hour? How long are you willing to wait for someone else before you kick? Forever?
A player on my block list shows up with another player from the same obscure guild. I'm not even certain they both move at the same time. One parks itself out of harms way while the other one plays. Any attempt to kick the AFK character is instantly shot down.
I already knew there were guilds and alliances out there with a lousy reputation for leeching, but I could never understand why one player would purposely queue with someone who planned on leeching just to ensure he/she doesn't get kicked. I just couldn't understand that mentality. It makes a lot more sense if it's the same player parking an alt while he/she plays with the other.
Had a really bad experience with a leech guild yesterday. Told the one playing to get lost 'cause we didn't need him and received some really nasty Rated-M for Mature comments in return. So I'm trying to remind myself of two things from now on:
1) When a blocked player shows up in the queue - check to see if there's another from the same guild. If there is - abandon the queue.
2) Avoid full instances in zones and queuing before the end of the workday. There seem to be a lot more toxic/immature players around during that part of the day - of course there would be when you think about it.