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Paladin, mod 16 thoughts.

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  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    Ok, I exchange some of my enchantment and manage to shift all my excess crit to power leaving 70k crit while having 110k power. My Emissary of Warding now gives somewhere around 120k+. Up from 100k. After playing a few run, it isn't a bad build. Valorous strike proc CT quite often as expected, just that 120k shield are still not reliable enough to solely rely upon Critical touch for heal. The shield still melted before CT could proc during merchant prince folly and It still require me to spam heal quite often. Probably my group dps weren't high enough to quickly dispatch those mob. Or maybe the dungeon scaling cut down my 120k shield. I don't know.

    I still feel that this build is pretty risky and require a good group and high power to work no doubt. Maybe at higher ilevel gameplay? I guess I'll still stick with my old build. At least I'm still able to have a good proc of EoW if my CT fail to proc. Anyway thanks for sharing.

  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,121 Arc User
    edited June 2019

    Emissary of Warden only works with Divine Touch 100% on all member, not with Divine Shelter,

    I just tested this. It isn't true. Emissary of warding does work with divine shelter. My guess its not working for u probably because u had your power & crit gap tuned too far apart that your healing crit just wont proc. Try closing your power-crit gap and see if your DS crit. I'm pretty sure that's the problem.
    Post edited by kangkeok on
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    kangkeok said:

    Emissary of Warden only works with Divine Touch 100% on all member, not with Divine Shelter,

    I just tested this. It isn't true. Emissary of warding does work with divine shelter. My guess its not working for u probably because u had your power & crit gap tuned too far apart that your healing crit just wont proc. Try closing your power-crit gap and see if your DS crit. I'm pretty sure that's the problem.
    ^ This. It works on DS. It's just not as nearly reliable as DT w/CT & EW is and is rarely worth the added divinity cost to cast.
    ~Shia~

    House Miliskeera in exile (NW)
    Sereska Miliskeera, Lvl 70 OP - Devotion (Just.)/Protection (Just.)
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    Maya Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 CW - Spellstorm
    Irae Sik-Miliskeera, Lvl 70 TR - Master Inflitrator

    Member - Houseclan t'Charvon (STO)
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  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    OK, again, what I ment is:
    CT+EoW+proc = 100% crit on DT
    CT+EoW+proc= nothing more than a random proc from EoW
    So DT having huge aoe is the one to use near 100% of time.
    kangkeok said:

    Ok, I exchange some of my enchantment and manage to shift all my excess crit to power leaving 70k crit while having 110k power. My Emissary of Warding now gives somewhere around 120k+. Up from 100k. After playing a few run, it isn't a bad build. Valorous strike proc CT quite often as expected, just that 120k shield are still not reliable enough to solely rely upon Critical touch for heal. The shield still melted before CT could proc during merchant prince folly and It still require me to spam heal quite often. Probably my group dps weren't high enough to quickly dispatch those mob. Or maybe the dungeon scaling cut down my 120k shield. I don't know.

    I still feel that this build is pretty risky and require a good group and high power to work no doubt. Maybe at higher ilevel gameplay? I guess I'll still stick with my old build. At least I'm still able to have a good proc of EoW if my CT fail to proc. Anyway thanks for sharing.

    All you have to do is slot a Vorpal, drink a potion of critseverity.
    If you happen to cast DT inside CoP (100% slotted at bosses) you see an about >240k blue shield at about 115k power, if..
    you switch some of your companion with power towards +% heal you will have the best outcome by far.
    4% plus outgoig healing from a green caompanion is better than 8000 power above 100k power.
    3x4% is pretty low cost, so you gain a 12%= better than 24k power.
    At legendary upgrade 3x10% =30%+ outgoing healing is more than 60k power added above 100k power.
    +1000 Power is deminished above 100k power to buff outgoing healing by <0.5% (that´s what is does for damage)
    At 150k power you will get 0,33% + outgoing healing per added 1000k, it get´s worse going higher.
    Post edited by schietindebux on
  • mebalz#9859 mebalz Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    I did not play a pally before mod 16 so i can not compare it to the past MODS. I am only using the justicar as i wanted to build a tank and I love it. My tank build is different from a lot of builds that i have seen in that i wanted pure tank high high HP defense cit avoidance deflect don't care about DPS numbers. The only thing i would change on the jusitcar is to to increase the divinity regeneration a bit
  • couatl13couatl13 Member Posts: 112 Arc User
    I'll be honest, as a returning player, I am struggling, struggling, with my Paladin. Like, there were things I used to be able to do no problem, that I just can't do anymore on my Justicar. Part of that has to do with my being away for a couple of years due to real life and the meta of the game continuing to move forward (as it should). But now that I've returned and dusted off my Paladin... It's just a struggle to get by.

    Did things need to change? Absolutely. Beforehand, a pre-mod16 Justicar Paladin, then called Paladin of Protection, had to go complete and totally out of their way to get killed. It was insane the amount of damage they could take. And that's ignoring block, which most of us did unless we really needed it. Now, post-mod16, I'm getting swarmed under by basic enemies. And while a lot of it could do with how item level has changed over the years and my being under geared compared to other people who didn't have to take a forced break. It's still brutal to shift and adjust to.

    And maybe it's just me, but I don't even feel like I'm healing back enough to even keep the fight going in my favor. The heal on Divine Touch isn't really there anymore. Block no longer heals. Even basic health potions can't keep me up and fighting long enough. And that's while using my block, moving around the battle field. Dodging reds. It's just a fight to keep moving forward.

    Hopefully it's all just in my head and I just need to shake the rust off, grit my teeth and adjust. But as it stands, for me, it's just a struggle to keep going. I haven't even touched Oathkeeper since the change.
  • drago#3250 drago Member Posts: 190 Arc User
    couatl13 said:

    Did things need to change? Absolutely. Beforehand, a pre-mod16 Justicar Paladin, then called Paladin of Protection, had to go complete and totally out of their way to get killed. It was insane the amount of damage they could take. And that's ignoring block, which most of us did unless we really needed it. Now, post-mod16, I'm getting swarmed under by basic enemies. And while a lot of it could do with how item level has changed over the years and my being under geared compared to other people who didn't have to take a forced break. It's still brutal to shift and adjust to.

    And maybe it's just me, but I don't even feel like I'm healing back enough to even keep the fight going in my favor. The heal on Divine Touch isn't really there anymore. Block no longer heals. Even basic health potions can't keep me up and fighting long enough. And that's while using my block, moving around the battle field. Dodging reds. It's just a fight to keep moving forward.

    Hopefully it's all just in my head and I just need to shake the rust off, grit my teeth and adjust. But as it stands, for me, it's just a struggle to keep going. I haven't even touched Oathkeeper since the change.

    It's not that a Paladin is bad - I would say it's a hard to master class. There is everything you can pay attention to. Movement(out of evil), Aggro(that your group don't die), Block(that you don't die), Damage(that you can hold the aggro), Heal(that you don't die) - I love it. It's a really demanding class. On low Item-Level I see masses of Paladins. The higher the Item-Level growths there are really thinned ranks of Paladins. From the decades of MMO I played - I want to recommend all newcomers not to start with a tank and absulely not as a Paladin. Take something easy Paingiver. Or a cleric to heal. The Oathtaker is not an easy healer to go with, but #1 pick in higher trials. If I have to compare what is needed in LOMM, the Oathtaker has to do tremendous more than a cleric. In trials Oathtaker is best healer.
    But that being said. Ofcourse i play Paladin Tank. I cannot get used to play a Paladin as healer. It's like playing a barbarian as Tank.

    The Justicar lacks balance on their own path. The class itself has much potential but bad design. I don't want Justicar to become overpowered, that's why I demand only realistic changes.
    We need more possible combinations of skills:
    1. Divinity regeneration. It feels like big downtime. If it's down to zero, and that is going to fast - you need to wait decades. The amount you can restore is just a joke. Think about a single boss. It's worst scenario. You cannot regenerate that much with only 1 block every few seconds. zzzzZZZZZ - I bet every Justicar uses the 10% divinity regeneration composure class feature.... seriously. Remove that class feature and give us more divinity regeneration.
    2. TAB - it's just bad. We don't need rework or balance patch here - It's urgent; we need hotfix here. I don't understand that useless TAB. You can do better by simply block without costs of divinity. And to the devs: It's not exciting for players to have multiple passive possibilities to block. 1 is enough - simply raise your shield. The aggro path of TAB is useful for weak tanks to get aggro. The second path is useful for? I would only use it to heal. And it's totally ugly to watch spamming that TAB to heal yourself, totally notchy. We need changes here. The TAB heal is more cost-effective without use of skill slot than divine touch. Here is big potential for changes. A good healer can make a tank useless and you can clear most content with 4 DPS and 1 Healer. The only Tank that can heal - the Paladin - can't compete here. We cannot replace the Healer. And that because of divinity regeneration. If it's empty all would simply die. The biggest problem to a Justicar is, that he's still a tank and his incoming heal +% means nothing to his group. If all heals of the Justicar would scale with imcoming heal - well that would be simply enough.
    3. At the moment I recommend not to use TAB. Use it for Bane/Smite. Don't forget to block and you are better than with TAB. To clear content alone you need Bane. Burning Light can't compete here. 300-600 damage out of Burning Light is not that good. 450 damage without scaling with Stamina would be far better.
    4. I would love to see sacred weapon paired with the feat with all time uptime - just like it is for Warlock (Hellbringer) with his Puppet. Recast a buff is zzzZZZZ. Lower magnitude to 30 and all time uptime.
    5. AURAS - we are paladins. Other classes have better aura-like stuff than the paladin. It's all garbage. We buff stuff what all players cap on max. chances anyways. What we really want is to remove all that garbage, leave only that aggro aura for weak tanks, and replace with 2 new auras. Let them scale with HP. 1 for damage, the other one for heal. Maybe 0.5% of Justicars HP every second as damage aura. 1% of Justicars HP every second as heal aura. Thank you!!!! That's another hotfix. At the moment justicar is simply no paladin tbh.

    Most important for the health of the game again to new players: I want to recommend all newcomers not to start with a tank and absulely not as a Paladin. Take something easy Paingiver. Or a cleric to heal.
  • zaprobozaprobo Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    > @zaprobo said:
    > I'm sitting at around 19.8k IL with my Justicar Paladin and find the class in a pretty good shape - I can tank most things I'm running against and am holding aggro readily in ME's even when teamed with a post 20k IL DPS crowd.

    Okay, let's revisit shall we? Two more Modules down and I'm up to 25.9k IL for the same Justicar Paladin.

    I've refined what Powers and Passive Abilities I use, and in what situations and the ability to tank is in perfect shape, though gets borderline in some high DPS situations and needs tighter management (swapping out Templars Wrath for Smite/Divine Challenger for the hard taunt on Arcturus, for example).

    The Tab ability still only see use when I need to use Divine Palisade to provide additional defenses for allies in one spot - Bore Worm Healing Phase, Tiamat Dragon Phase, Trobriand Post-Tower Phase. Otherwise my finger avoids the tab option.

    Divinity still runs down hard on extended fights but it feels okay enough - using only one spender (Templar's Wrath, Bane or Smite depending on situation) and not running it dry on purpose and I'm getting by okay. It has become a decision of whether I keep something in reserve, or do I go all out.

    I run almost 90% of my time as Justicar now (my "solo DPS" build is Justicar as well, forgoing Oathkeeper for AoE damage of Bane/Baneful Strike) and I am happy with my class - I will see how Infernal Citadel treats me though!

    Hope this helps give some perspective.
    Zaphod "Zap-Robo" Robotnik
    http://zap-robo.net/
  • aerhythia#3255 aerhythia Member Posts: 173 Arc User
    It's Peacekeeper, not Oathtaker ;)

    New healer will definitely benefit from a lot of critical strike, if you have the right comp gear and bondings something like 100k power and 125k crit should be achievable. Makes things a lot more comfortable if critical touch doesn't want to proc. Other then the daily it's basically our only plan b. Healing comps up (pretty expensive unfortunately) and the rest is basically minmaxing already.
    couatl13 said:

    Hopefully it's all just in my head and I just need to shake the rust off, grit my teeth and adjust. But as it stands, for me, it's just a struggle to keep going. I haven't even touched Oathkeeper since the change.

    Oathkeeper has access to Bane with lower divinity cost and lower magnitude, the chargeable AoE with around 20 seconds cooldown and if you want barriers you can set Divine Touch as 3rd encounter, then quickly swap either Bane or the other encounter if not on cooldown for Smite if you want to maximize single target damage. Due to the Bane spam and the target cap (15 I believe) you can try to pull multiple groups that way, since you gonna run of divinity after 10 seconds or so, and you're doing less damage with Bane the less divinity you got. Works pretty smooth to me, unfortunately there's no good way to regenerate divinity in combat. There's a feat to get some back from using At-Wills, but ideally you only want to use At-Wills to link Banes, which also means in groups you can only use Bane sparringly. Works great in things like expeditions though where people usually want a Cleanse and occasional heals, or for example random skirmish queue where you can run into multiple healers.
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