The LEAST painful way to fix the AD exchange.

Let me state the best way to fix the AD exchange is a fair way that will keep the exchange functional.
15 mil coin backlog is not functional.
Step 1: Close off any NEW exchange offers, if you have AD listed, it stays but no more new listings.
Step 2: Wait for backlog to clear. If you get to a point where nobody is buying because the listings left are
way low, just refund those.
Step 3: Give everyone 24 hour notice when the exchange will reopen.
Step 4: REMOVE the price cap completely and reopen the exchange.
>>>>> Let the market set the price, it might be really high but it will at least be a true price
and there will be no backlog.

This is a real fix.
«1

Comments

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,458 Arc User
    No, it isn't.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • krumple01
    krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    Let me state the best way to fix the AD exchange is a fair way that will keep the exchange functional.
    15 mil coin backlog is not functional.
    Step 1: Close off any NEW exchange offers, if you have AD listed, it stays but no more new listings.
    Step 2: Wait for backlog to clear. If you get to a point where nobody is buying because the listings left are
    way low, just refund those.
    Step 3: Give everyone 24 hour notice when the exchange will reopen.
    Step 4: REMOVE the price cap completely and reopen the exchange.
    >>>>> Let the market set the price, it might be really high but it will at least be a true price
    and there will be no backlog.

    This is a real fix.

    You are right. You are someone that understands economics. Unfortunately 90% of the player base that read the forums don't understand it. This also means players in the game also dont understand it.

    When they see the ZAX cap increase they think they should raise prices on items in the AH. The assumption is that a player who drops Zen to get AD will have a nice pool to buy things on the AH. Other players will want to capitalize on this by trying to maximize their AH sales.

    So players directly link high desired items to the ZAX. This however currently is in flux because the price for Pres Wards has gone up but their demand has dropped because you can get by without needing max enchantments. This isn't mod 15 where enchants give you a nice edge. So their incentive to upgrade gear is pretty much dwindled to nothing. In a true market when demand drops prices shouldn't increase.

    However with all that said, a player willing to pay 6k or 7k for each pres ward when in mod 15 they were 5k it means there is still either some lack of information about the increase in price and reduction of demand. Its not a bad thing but also because of the dungeon increased difficulty AD will technically be a little harder to get or its gonna push more and more players into ONLY running Demo for their daily cap. This makes the game incredibly boring. How players run demo over and over baffles me.

  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,458 Arc User
    The only way to "fix" the backlog is to find a way to get people put zen into it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • namelesshero347
    namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    krumple01 said:


    So players directly link high desired items to the ZAX. This however currently is in flux because the price for Pres Wards has gone up but their demand has dropped because you can get by without needing max enchantments. This isn't mod 15 where enchants give you a nice edge. So their incentive to upgrade gear is pretty much dwindled to nothing. In a true market when demand drops prices shouldn't increase.

    Except that for zen store items like wards, the AH price will generally be pegged to the ZAX rate. The AH price may go up when there is higher demand and the backlog is long enough that people are willing to pay more in AD. But if the demand drops, or even plummets, the AH price will never go below the ZAX rate. People will stop flipping and save the wards for themselves instead of selling for a loss.
  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,461 Arc User
    edited April 2019

    Let me state the best way to fix the AD exchange is a fair way that will keep the exchange functional.
    15 mil coin backlog is not functional.
    Step 1: Close off any NEW exchange offers, if you have AD listed, it stays but no more new listings.
    Step 2: Wait for backlog to clear. If you get to a point where nobody is buying because the listings left are
    way low, just refund those.
    Step 3: Give everyone 24 hour notice when the exchange will reopen.
    Step 4: REMOVE the price cap completely and reopen the exchange.
    >>>>> Let the market set the price, it might be really high but it will at least be a true price
    and there will be no backlog.

    This is a real fix.

    If you want to do that (I am not saying they should), you may as well just do step 4 directly.
    There is no point to allow the last run of capped exchange.

    1. Those who are not happy with no cap will not be more happy just because you allow the last run.
    2. Those who have Zen and know about the upcoming change will not be stupid to buy AD before the cap is removed. That means this backlog will stay for a long while as longer than the current wait time.
    3. For those Zen holder who do not know the upcoming change and pay the cap price to buy AD and then find out the cap is coming off, they will not be happy. This group probably contains a big chuck of new players. Messing them up is not good.
    4. For those who loves no cap will need to wait for no good reason for them.

    So, what is the point to keep step 1 to 3? What is the up side?
    If they want to do it, do that like many government did to their exchange. Just do it with no notification (like they raised the cap to 750).
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • regenerde
    regenerde Member Posts: 2,993 Arc User
    Well, here we go again...

    1. The Devs have to clean up the massive mess they created with Undermountain before most players would even consider spending a single Penny here again.

    2. ZEN Charge Promotions have to give players account-wide items that are actually usefull and desired, and those promotions have to work without any problems forcing players into fights with the support to get their promised rewards.

    3. Improve and upgrade the Wondrous Bazaar with a collection of items at reasonable prices that are worth spending AD for.

    And removing the cap from the ZAX is going to kill the game in the long run, while it will also attracked a shitload of "gold sellers" to the game, that can create limitless AD through thousands of bot accounts.

    Besides, the daily rAD bonus for running random dungeons/skirmishes has been changed from account-wide (back?) to character-wide, which means players with several characters can now get rAD even easier.
    I do believe in killing the messenger...
    Want to know why?
    Because it sends a message!
  • tassedethe13
    tassedethe13 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 806 Arc User
    regenerde said:

    Besides, the daily rAD bonus for running random dungeons/skirmishes has been changed from account-wide (back?) to character-wide, which means players with several characters can now get rAD even easier.

    "easier" :)
  • krumple01
    krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, removing the cap in a infinity printing AD economy... It will solve all things /s
    Why not consider first why the cap is there to begin with.





    If I had 1k ZEN for every time someone suggest removing the cap as a solution for all things, I would have enough to cover the backlog on PC.
    But sorry, it's not a solution, it is just eliminating the f2p model, and moving to subscription model in practice or just terminating the economy.

    Rising the cap as it is, without any viable plan to reduce / discourage the RAD farming was a mistake.

    The thing is, there are not enough things that demand the use of Astral Diamonds in a meaningful way. They have attempted to introduce ways players would spend AD but they have failed. One is companion upgrading, its extremely expensive in terms of AD where pretty much no one uses it. Also the workshop upgrades, the final upgrade if you wanted to use AD to get it is five million ad? And the result for that five million? Nothing. You get another row of coffer space and you can have more artisans? That's it. Totally not worth it.

    There are only a handful of things worth spending AD on with pretty much zero sinks. Without a sink the total pool of astral diamonds in the game increases. Most players just end up trading AD around on the AH buying wards. So very very little of the AD is being destroyed (given to NPCs)

    This steady increase in AD without any valid reasonable sinks makes the value of AD slowly drop every day.

  • aratech
    aratech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    krumple01 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, removing the cap in a infinity printing AD economy... It will solve all things /s
    Why not consider first why the cap is there to begin with.





    If I had 1k ZEN for every time someone suggest removing the cap as a solution for all things, I would have enough to cover the backlog on PC.
    But sorry, it's not a solution, it is just eliminating the f2p model, and moving to subscription model in practice or just terminating the economy.

    Rising the cap as it is, without any viable plan to reduce / discourage the RAD farming was a mistake.

    The thing is, there are not enough things that demand the use of Astral Diamonds in a meaningful way. They have attempted to introduce ways players would spend AD but they have failed. One is companion upgrading, its extremely expensive in terms of AD where pretty much no one uses it. Also the workshop upgrades, the final upgrade if you wanted to use AD to get it is five million ad? And the result for that five million? Nothing. You get another row of coffer space and you can have more artisans? That's it. Totally not worth it.

    There are only a handful of things worth spending AD on with pretty much zero sinks. Without a sink the total pool of astral diamonds in the game increases. Most players just end up trading AD around on the AH buying wards. So very very little of the AD is being destroyed (given to NPCs)

    This steady increase in AD without any valid reasonable sinks makes the value of AD slowly drop every day.

    Bad news there. This module did *extensive* damage to the effectiveness of your enchantments. What was once the "safe" investment that supported, I would be willing to bet, well over half of all Zen purchases (Coal Wards/Pres Wards), has now become little more than a case of Cryptic wanting you to spend another $250 or so, at a minimum, for a 0.000001% increase in stats, that are then immediately negated when you get auto-scaled and your new rank 15s are knocked down below a rank 10 in effectiveness. They've just inflicted significant economic damage on themselves as a result, because no one wants to spend the resources for such a paltry upgrade.
  • robai#6206
    robai#6206 Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    Why would anyone spend real money on such a buggy game after U16? (scaling is a bug in design, companions no longer heal, etc.)
    That explains a long ZAX queue.
    It will be harder to get VIP for free, but who cares if you can't play this game for fun anymore (I still have vip for several months, not sure if I'll stay after that).
    Post edited by robai#6206 on
  • micky1p00
    micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,540 Arc User
    edited April 2019
    krumple01 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, removing the cap in a infinity printing AD economy... It will solve all things /s
    Why not consider first why the cap is there to begin with.





    If I had 1k ZEN for every time someone suggest removing the cap as a solution for all things, I would have enough to cover the backlog on PC.
    But sorry, it's not a solution, it is just eliminating the f2p model, and moving to subscription model in practice or just terminating the economy.

    Rising the cap as it is, without any viable plan to reduce / discourage the RAD farming was a mistake.

    The thing is, there are not enough things that demand the use of Astral Diamonds in a meaningful way. They have attempted to introduce ways players would spend AD but they have failed. One is companion upgrading, its extremely expensive in terms of AD where pretty much no one uses it. Also the workshop upgrades, the final upgrade if you wanted to use AD to get it is five million ad? And the result for that five million? Nothing. You get another row of coffer space and you can have more artisans? That's it. Totally not worth it.

    There are only a handful of things worth spending AD on with pretty much zero sinks. Without a sink the total pool of astral diamonds in the game increases. Most players just end up trading AD around on the AH buying wards. So very very little of the AD is being destroyed (given to NPCs)

    This steady increase in AD without any valid reasonable sinks makes the value of AD slowly drop every day.

    Yes, except that the cap is the only thing that gives value the AD despite the constant creation of AD. Remove it, and the value will plummet. e.g. the cap risen, all market controlled prices went up.

    Please take a look, outlining the issue you mentioned and a possible solution:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/bh8g6e/thanks_cryptic_for_devaluing_my_astral_diamonds/elrgi7a/?context=3

    And the linked post there, same thread, and conveniently same videos.

    Quoting " The issue was not the cap nor ZEN, it was on the AD side of things, too much of it generated vs traded, and not enough insensitive for ZEN owners to buy AD":

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/comments/bh8g6e/thanks_cryptic_for_devaluing_my_astral_diamonds/elrdlel/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

    Trade is important due to the AH being major AD sink with the 10% 'tax'.
    So actually wards trading and other massive AH activity is extremely important sink. The other notables are marks of potency form WB, and MW was with with rush costs and the trade.
    Post edited by micky1p00 on
  • fatherfungus#6584
    fatherfungus#6584 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    Catch 22

    The biggest counter point is ... don't do that, it will go up forever then AH will go up forever etc.
    It will not because there is a limit on how much AD can physically get in a day. It might be alot, but it is not infinite.

    counter answer - just make stuff folks will buy with AD so other people will turn in ZEN (cash)
    If they were willing to do that, they would have done that.
    The reason they don't - Spend man/woman hours creating content that does NOT product cash flow,
    would fix the exchange by SUPPLEMENTING the game economy with work (cost money) for the
    soul benefit of the players...

    We have their answer - NO

    The honeymoon is over - all new content MUST lead to cash flow.
    that is why it is backlogged into many millions.

    Other answer - leave it.
    I can live with a 2 month wait. How about 6 months, 1 year?
    The back log is growing and in the current situation will keep growing until
    it BREAKS. (as in the wait gets so long, all players stop using it, the backlog hits...50 mil) all the AD stays there
    and nothing moves

    There is a point on a F2P game where MOST players will ask? Will I even be playing this in 6 months?

    Standing stone will not spend creative effort to fix it that could otherwise be making cash.
    Letting it get worse ends with stagnation and end of use.

    So make the call...
    remove cap and let the exchange hit a natural equilibrium that players selling AD will not like OR
    wait for the developers to put a bunch of creative effort into a financial sinkhole (never happen) OR
    let it get worse until it stops functioning and you can't exchange AD.

    Pick your poison.
  • dsn1118
    dsn1118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    I dont understand why should Cryptic work to decrease Zen exchange? There was a time backlog was 30 million and noone was crying backlog was too long. People use Zen Exchange and Zen Store to earn AD without playing the game. Most of the players are crying here are probably used to do this and cant do that anymore since ZAX takes 2-3 months to turn back the spend Zen.

    If you need Zen and dont want to wait. Go buy Zen with real world money.

    They increased the cap to 750, prices went up and backlog stays the same. But people who buy enchantments or wards from AH got HAMSTER because some entitled Y or Z generation twerps dont want to wait. I had to farm AD for 4 or 5 days to buy 99xpres wards before and after new mod it is 6 or 7 days.

    I have a good suggestion If you want to decrease backlog. Make everything account bound on Zen store so it should stop working as an easy way to earn AD for people. Lets see how long will it take backlog to meltdown. I say 5 to 10 hours.
  • dsn1118
    dsn1118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    Also Cryptic should put 10% tax while changing AD to Zen in ZAX. Instant AD sink.
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User

    Let me state the best way to fix the AD exchange is a fair way that will keep the exchange functional.
    15 mil coin backlog is not functional.
    Step 1: Close off any NEW exchange offers, if you have AD listed, it stays but no more new listings.
    Step 2: Wait for backlog to clear. If you get to a point where nobody is buying because the listings left are
    way low, just refund those.
    Step 3: Give everyone 24 hour notice when the exchange will reopen.
    Step 4: REMOVE the price cap completely and reopen the exchange.
    >>>>> Let the market set the price, it might be really high but it will at least be a true price
    and there will be no backlog.

    This is a real fix.

    You load 16 tons and what do you get? Anther day older and deeper in debt! St. Peter, don't you call me cause I can't go! I owe my soul to the company store!
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    Whatever the price, capped or uncapped, there will be a backlog as long as more Zen is being sought than sold.
    If the logic behind raising the cap to clear the backlog by simply pricing some people out of the market is the suggested solution, then I think the problem has been misunderstood.

    The problem is, was, and will remain... not enough Zen being traded.
    Making Astral Diamonds 10'000 to 1 "because the players made it so" won't make people buy Zen to trade for AD if they neither want or need Astral Diamonds.

    There is no simple 4 or 5 step fix to mend the ADX and the exchange rate.

    The things needed to properly fix it involve both creative thinking and doing things that players will not like.
    There needs to be proper reasons for people to want/need a regular income of AD, to make Zen buyers want AD in the first place, and there need to be changes to what you can do with Zen in order to make trading on the ADX a better option than simply buying stuff with Zen using sales/vouchers and flipping it for more AD than trading on the ADX would make.

    Binding Zen purchases, and removing discounts such as vouchers and sales would sort the issue of flipping, but it would be incredibly unpopular.

    The more difficult part of the method is making AD more desirable. Instead of sinks that try to take what you have, they need to work on stuff that people WANT to spend their AD on, not stuff that they try to avoid having to lose AD on. It's part of the mindset..
    I refuse to engage in the "Sink" of refilling morale on Professions, because it feels like a rip off. But on the odd occasion where I need to bump a companion from Blue to Purple, I'll spend AD on improving it's quality if I don;t have enough upgrade tokens. I feel like I'm getting something useful for my AD, rather than it being sucked away on something unimportant.

    There needs to be more creative, clever, interesting, and importantly "Value For Money" things to spend AD on. Not just a new tier of HAMSTER refinement stone in the Wondrous Bazaar.
    Put GOOD stuff in the WB, not just crappy Zen Market cast offs and stuff that never sold anywhere else.
    If people wouldn't pay Zen for it, they wouldn't trade Zen to buy AD to pay for it...

    Without a reason to want more AD, what reason do people have to trade Zen for it?
    That's the question that needs addressing... not taxing, not HAMSTER about with caps... but making people eager to buy Zen to sell on the ADX by giving them a GOOD reason.
  • cherryman1
    cherryman1 Member Posts: 347 Arc User
    aratech said:

    krumple01 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, removing the cap in a infinity printing AD economy... It will solve all things /s
    Why not consider first why the cap is there to begin with.





    If I had 1k ZEN for every time someone suggest removing the cap as a solution for all things, I would have enough to cover the backlog on PC.
    But sorry, it's not a solution, it is just eliminating the f2p model, and moving to subscription model in practice or just terminating the economy.

    Rising the cap as it is, without any viable plan to reduce / discourage the RAD farming was a mistake.

    The thing is, there are not enough things that demand the use of Astral Diamonds in a meaningful way. They have attempted to introduce ways players would spend AD but they have failed. One is companion upgrading, its extremely expensive in terms of AD where pretty much no one uses it. Also the workshop upgrades, the final upgrade if you wanted to use AD to get it is five million ad? And the result for that five million? Nothing. You get another row of coffer space and you can have more artisans? That's it. Totally not worth it.

    There are only a handful of things worth spending AD on with pretty much zero sinks. Without a sink the total pool of astral diamonds in the game increases. Most players just end up trading AD around on the AH buying wards. So very very little of the AD is being destroyed (given to NPCs)

    This steady increase in AD without any valid reasonable sinks makes the value of AD slowly drop every day.

    Bad news there. This module did *extensive* damage to the effectiveness of your enchantments. What was once the "safe" investment that supported, I would be willing to bet, well over half of all Zen purchases (Coal Wards/Pres Wards), has now become little more than a case of Cryptic wanting you to spend another $250 or so, at a minimum, for a 0.000001% increase in stats, that are then immediately negated when you get auto-scaled and your new rank 15s are knocked down below a rank 10 in effectiveness. They've just inflicted significant economic damage on themselves as a result, because no one wants to spend the resources for such a paltry upgrade.
    If you haven't noticed yet they did do the damage to the echantments but they swapped their money making strategy over to the fact you now need 11 to 13 legendary companions instead of the 5 you used to need. They also made the companions you now need that are best for you different and in a lot of scenarios several of the previous legendary companions you had upgraded fully are now not being used by you.
    Guild Leader: Under the Influence
    Yule (Barb): 72k : Siren (TR): 78k : Torun (DC): 73k : Siren OP (OP): 76k : Siren SW (SW): 78k : Modern (F): 80k : Cherry1 (CW) : 68k Siren HR (HR): 78k
  • krumple01
    krumple01 Member Posts: 755 Arc User

    If you haven't noticed yet they did do the damage to the echantments but they swapped their money making strategy over to the fact you now need 11 to 13 legendary companions instead of the 5 you used to need. They also made the companions you now need that are best for you different and in a lot of scenarios several of the previous legendary companions you had upgraded fully are now not being used by you.

    Yep when the circus was flourishing there were Chultan Tigers running everywhere but now they are no longer wanted. What is going to happen with all those tigers? Should PETA be notified?

    I agree with you and it dawned on me too after looking over what I already had vs what they now want to make more important. Companions have a much bigger impact than enchantments do now.

    I dropped cash to get mod 12 weapons when they were put on the Zen store. But I won't fall for that again if they try to put some nice companion on the Zen store. Because chances are 5 to 6 months later that same companion might be worthless.

  • aratech
    aratech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User

    aratech said:

    krumple01 said:

    micky1p00 said:

    Yes, removing the cap in a infinity printing AD economy... It will solve all things /s
    Why not consider first why the cap is there to begin with.





    If I had 1k ZEN for every time someone suggest removing the cap as a solution for all things, I would have enough to cover the backlog on PC.
    But sorry, it's not a solution, it is just eliminating the f2p model, and moving to subscription model in practice or just terminating the economy.

    Rising the cap as it is, without any viable plan to reduce / discourage the RAD farming was a mistake.

    The thing is, there are not enough things that demand the use of Astral Diamonds in a meaningful way. They have attempted to introduce ways players would spend AD but they have failed. One is companion upgrading, its extremely expensive in terms of AD where pretty much no one uses it. Also the workshop upgrades, the final upgrade if you wanted to use AD to get it is five million ad? And the result for that five million? Nothing. You get another row of coffer space and you can have more artisans? That's it. Totally not worth it.

    There are only a handful of things worth spending AD on with pretty much zero sinks. Without a sink the total pool of astral diamonds in the game increases. Most players just end up trading AD around on the AH buying wards. So very very little of the AD is being destroyed (given to NPCs)

    This steady increase in AD without any valid reasonable sinks makes the value of AD slowly drop every day.

    Bad news there. This module did *extensive* damage to the effectiveness of your enchantments. What was once the "safe" investment that supported, I would be willing to bet, well over half of all Zen purchases (Coal Wards/Pres Wards), has now become little more than a case of Cryptic wanting you to spend another $250 or so, at a minimum, for a 0.000001% increase in stats, that are then immediately negated when you get auto-scaled and your new rank 15s are knocked down below a rank 10 in effectiveness. They've just inflicted significant economic damage on themselves as a result, because no one wants to spend the resources for such a paltry upgrade.
    If you haven't noticed yet they did do the damage to the echantments but they swapped their money making strategy over to the fact you now need 11 to 13 legendary companions instead of the 5 you used to need. They also made the companions you now need that are best for you different and in a lot of scenarios several of the previous legendary companions you had upgraded fully are now not being used by you.
    The problem there is that it's a minimum 1 million AD investment to get a companion to legendary. A companion that, as we had seen with the Augments from Ye Olde Vanilla Days, the EE days when the Dancing Blade bug was literally required in order to clear off the Dragon Heralds in WOD because of the screwed up scaling of the level 70 cap raise (sounds familiar, don't it?), the Zentarum Warlock Days, the Archon Days, etc. etc. can be rendered completely and totally *moot* by the next patch, let alone the next module. People by and large do not want to invest such a ridiculous amount of AD into something so volatile and unpredictable (because let's face it, when's the last time anyone with an alt or two actually managed to hit their AD cap for the day and not have to treat this game like a second job where you paid Cryptic instead of getting paid yourself.)

    If they want to go that route, then they need to lower the AD necessary for the upgrade process, or people simply aren't going to do it, just like no one wanted to invest five *million* AD into their workshop just to get an extra row of profession supply storages...

    In Summary: The game needs AD sinks, yes. But it needs *intelligent* AD sinks.
  • robai#6206
    robai#6206 Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited May 2019
    If you pay AD for something permanent (like companion upgrade) then it's not a real AD sink, because it's a one time payment (devs might make that companion useless later expecting you to upgrade another companion, but it's not the right way to do it, because players won't upgrade companions anymore since they'll know that it's just temporary).

    The real AD sink would be when you pay AD often, like for a really powerful consumable, but it shouldn't be mandatory. This way rich players would use consumables all the time, while others could play the game without it, but it would be a much slower game play for them.

    A lottery would be another good way to make real AD sinks, but it would work only if there would be something very useful that you can't get from anywhere else, that means: you can't buy it from AH, can't buy it with Zen, it never drops from any lockboxes, and a promise that it will stay that way in the future (i. e. a lottery will always be the only way to get it).
    Post edited by robai#6206 on
  • wintersmoke
    wintersmoke Member Posts: 1,632 Arc User
    wargraves said:

    greywynd said:

    The only way to "fix" the backlog is to find a way to get people put zen into it.

    HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHA.

    It's basic economics. There isn't enough incentive or value to support buying ZEN. Remove the cap and let the free market absorb the back log. It would also destroy the black market because they would have to tank their prices. People only buy from secondary sources because they offer better value.
    Ugh. So tired of seeing this "basic economics" lie used as a justification. There is no free market in a game economy. It is a closed system. It is LITERALLY the "company store." There is no competition. There are no secondary sources.
  • kharkov58
    kharkov58 Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    There is competition from offsite vendors, if you want to run the risk of being banned.
  • kemnimtarkas
    kemnimtarkas Member Posts: 831 Arc User

    Let me state the best way to fix the AD exchange is a fair way that will keep the exchange functional.
    15 mil coin backlog is not functional.
    Step 1: Close off any NEW exchange offers, if you have AD listed, it stays but no more new listings.
    Step 2: Wait for backlog to clear. If you get to a point where nobody is buying because the listings left are
    way low, just refund those.
    Step 3: Give everyone 24 hour notice when the exchange will reopen.
    Step 4: REMOVE the price cap completely and reopen the exchange.
    >>>>> Let the market set the price, it might be really high but it will at least be a true price
    and there will be no backlog.

    This is a real fix.

    If this were a true 'economy' your suggestion should work perfectly. However, for it to be effective there would have to be safeguards in place around the currencies being exchanged to insure fraud and exploitation are controlled.

    I have a funny feeling that instead of fixing the problem your solution would be subject to an intense amount of exploitation by gold sellers, bot farmers and others.
  • fluffy6977
    fluffy6977 Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    Basic economics 101 theory is only true with the caveat (taught in every economics class) that all other things are held equal. This does not happen in the real world. While putting no limit on the ADX rate would theoretically reach a new market equilibrium point, that point is the only thing that would change (Tradehouse prices are tied to Zen prices irrevocably through the ADX, it is the same system, the prices of goods in the tradehouse will rise to match the new equilibrium point).


    The one ceiling raise for now is more than enough shock to the system. The market will find a new equilibrium point, which for PC is maxed, PS4 is near maxed, and Xbox is +80 +/-20. All this does is shift the point, not address the concern. One of the biggest problems is, aside from new players gearing up for the first time and older players purchasing items to flip later during the sales, and the occasional lock box opening spree (PITA with the new lockbox format btw), there is very little reason to acquire Zen for most players.

    Better solutions off the top of my head:

    1. Re-instate the tradehouse posting fee that was removed by VIP. Make each posting cost the poster 10% of the buyout or auction price, returned if the Item sells and forfeit if it doesn't. Why? Right now there is no penalty for posting outlandish prices, and thus no incentive to drive the price anywhere but up on any good. The tradehouse goods rarely need to find an equilibrium point for rarer goods and prices stagnate. VIP could cut the forfeit amount down by half or something, but it still needs to exist to control pricing.
    2. Reduce the real world cost of Zen. 1k for 10 dollars is absurd given how little you can purchase for that amount. Cut it in half, 1k for 5 dollars, and more people will be willing to purchase Zen in general.
    3. If cap is 750AD/1Zen, put an extra purchase option for purchasing directly from Cryptic for 1000AD/1Zen - Removes the AD from the economy permanently for players that are willing to sacrifice value in exchange for time. Likely won't be used much, but everything helps.
    4. Impose a tax on the ADX - Player purchasing Zen pays offer amount +10% worth of ADX. On Xbox Zen flipping is a rampant way to create wealth out of nothing, there is a regular up/down cycle to the ADX (Literally every 24 hours) and you can easily purchase Zen and sell later the same day for +1-8AD/Zen, doing nothing more than risking currency to make currency.
    5. Leave fashion/mounts/companions in the Tradebar store, but also offer them in the Wondrous Bazaar for slightly less than the cost of the tradebars (80%?). Right now the WB only works as an effective AD sink during discount weekends.
    6. Make items purchased from the Zen Market account wide unlocks(where it makes sense to). Increase the price inversely proportional to the amount the price of Zen is lowered (only for Account wide unlocked items). Create a flag for Zen market items so that even when sold on the Tradehouse they still are account wide when unlocked, so that these items hold more value than the same item dropped from a dungeon (dungeon drops are character unlocked only).
    7. This would likely take the most Dev resources, but I would really love to see this here. Make the Collections tab account wide. Add in functionality to permanently unlock items in collections for the entire account for Zen, or one character unlock an item for AD. Base the price on the price of a similar item in the Zen store, I.E. if you earn a dungeon or lockbox drop, say an epic mount, and decide after equipping it that you like it a lot, allow us to pay the Zen market Epic mount cost (3500 i think?) to unlock the mount for the account through the collections window. Put the Legendary tier at 5000 (Account wide Legendary mounts, only through owning one already and acquiring Zen, two birds one stone). Only works if you have unlocked the item by equipping and binding it.


    One important aspect to economics to remember is that people make economic decisions on the margins, will the marginal benefit outweigh the marginal cost? 99% of the time in NWO, the answer is meh.


    As an aside, the current tradehouse tax is a poor joke of an AD sink (although it is currently the best one the game offers). For instance, assuming the goods show up at a price I am willing to pay this weekend I will drop 30mil AD in the tradehouse in preparation for Mod 16. Of that 30 mil, only 3mil will be permanently removed. That's a drop in the bucket (I generated this 30mil by cashing out of professions after the redesign, and enchantments after Mod 16 was announced, not by grinding, so on the generous side of things the AD tradehouse tax was paid 2x but still) and doesn't effectively control the AD supply in the least.
  • therealprotex
    therealprotex Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 516 Arc User
    Oh, another thread of the "Free Market Fairytale". :-)
  • jsilver47#0854
    jsilver47#0854 Member Posts: 1 New User
    too bad I cant use the auction house at all !!!

    new player, just hit level 25, have no astral diamonds, quests gave me none, people cant give me any.
    So i'm screwed for the rest of my time playing?
  • robai#6206
    robai#6206 Member Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited May 2019

    too bad I cant use the auction house at all !!!



    new player, just hit level 25, have no astral diamonds, quests gave me none, people cant give me any.

    So i'm screwed for the rest of my time playing?

    Just complete Random: Leveling Queue (hit K and choose Random).
    It will give you AD to start with.