test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Providing Feedback

nitocris83nitocris83 Posts: 2,374Member, Administrator Community Manager
Greetings Adventurers,

With the changes happening in Undermountain, we know there are abundant and varied opinions across the community. The feedback threads are incredibly valuable and the team has been spending a larger portion of time engaging with the playerbase. The majority of the feedback and discussion has been constructive and respectful but due to the general increase in feedback itself, there is also an increase in toxic comments. While comments that are attacks or filled with profanity are a clear violation of the forum rules, some comments have begun to rely on passive aggression, "gotcha" rhetorical elements, persistent toxicity, and behavior that stops just short of crossing the line into a forum violation. These comments do not provide any constructive elements and serve to detract from fruitful engagement. Because of this, we will be monitoring them more closely and taking necessary actions to bring back the focus to more useful discussions.
«134

Comments

  • finmakinfinmakin Posts: 240Member Arc User
    Well said.
    Ogguk Sanctus… Oathbound Paladin
    670k HP (and rising)

    Member of NWLC Alpha
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Posts: 155Member Arc User
    @autumnwitch I have been playing since open beta and have spent a stupid amount of money on both PC and PS4. IMHO the complete overhaul that is M16 is a very good way to revitalize NWO and to make sure the ancient code behind it all is updated and ready for years of content. Long time players should rejoice! Players that have spent money in an MMO with the belief that items/char upgrades bought would stay best in slot forever should seek financial advice instead of spreading toxicity on the forums.
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Posts: 311Member Arc User
    edited March 14
    wilbur626 said:

    @autumnwitch I have been playing since open beta and have spent a stupid amount of money on both PC and PS4. IMHO the complete overhaul that is M16 is a very good way to revitalize NWO and to make sure the ancient code behind it all is updated and ready for years of content. Long time players should rejoice! Players that have spent money in an MMO with the belief that items/char upgrades bought would stay best in slot forever should seek financial advice instead of spreading toxicity on the forums.

    This is not what I said nor meant. I did not say one word about BiS. However, many, many things that have nothing to do with BiS that do involve spending copious amounts of time and effort achieving are being nerfed to useless at any level. This has nothing to do with BiS gear as most of use agree that the new level cap and gear is a great thing. But destroying the value of gear/stuff we have now (enchants, companions, mounts), so we can't even use them effectively on content we have already played is wrong. Invalidating our current enchants for example is especially frustrating when they could have just switched them to something that is meaningful in the new system and thus they would still mean something from day one. Then you will tell me we can exchange them? My point is that if they had made these changes with us in mind, we wouldn't have to because they would still inherently be as meaningful for the new system as they are with the current system.
    Aeywnn - HR
    Ashryne - GF
    Anais - HR
    Red Jenny - SW
    Wintyr - DC
    Sillvi - HR
    Niri - CW

    Boudica's Sisters
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    wilbur626 said:

    @autumnwitch I have been playing since open beta and have spent a stupid amount of money on both PC and PS4. IMHO the complete overhaul that is M16 is a very good way to revitalize NWO and to make sure the ancient code behind it all is updated and ready for years of content. Long time players should rejoice! Players that have spent money in an MMO with the belief that items/char upgrades bought would stay best in slot forever should seek financial advice instead of spreading toxicity on the forums.

    Generally agree with this. But sometimes specific changes are bad, and people who are calling out specific bad ideas as bad should be taken seriously.

    Difficulty is seperating the people just upset that their investment is being devalued, and people who have a legitimate complaint.
  • kreatyvekreatyve Posts: 9,714Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Community Moderator

    wilbur626 said:

    @autumnwitch I have been playing since open beta and have spent a stupid amount of money on both PC and PS4. IMHO the complete overhaul that is M16 is a very good way to revitalize NWO and to make sure the ancient code behind it all is updated and ready for years of content. Long time players should rejoice! Players that have spent money in an MMO with the belief that items/char upgrades bought would stay best in slot forever should seek financial advice instead of spreading toxicity on the forums.

    Generally agree with this. But sometimes specific changes are bad, and people who are calling out specific bad ideas as bad should be taken seriously.

    Difficulty is seperating the people just upset that their investment is being devalued, and people who have a legitimate complaint.
    Negative feedback is great. Necessary even. But you have to be careful of how you present it. Saying that the devs need to be fired or just cussing them out is not helpful for anyone, and the fastest way to get them to completely ignore you.
    My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox
    Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
    Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
    kuI2v8l.png
  • theycallmetomutheycallmetomu Posts: 1,861Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    wilbur626 said:

    @autumnwitch I have been playing since open beta and have spent a stupid amount of money on both PC and PS4. IMHO the complete overhaul that is M16 is a very good way to revitalize NWO and to make sure the ancient code behind it all is updated and ready for years of content. Long time players should rejoice! Players that have spent money in an MMO with the belief that items/char upgrades bought would stay best in slot forever should seek financial advice instead of spreading toxicity on the forums.

    Generally agree with this. But sometimes specific changes are bad, and people who are calling out specific bad ideas as bad should be taken seriously.

    Difficulty is seperating the people just upset that their investment is being devalued, and people who have a legitimate complaint.
    Negative feedback is great. Necessary even. But you have to be careful of how you present it. Saying that the devs need to be fired or just cussing them out is not helpful for anyone, and the fastest way to get them to completely ignore you.
    I'll occasionally use "be fired" in jest, but yeah-it's silly to act like people should be fired for having the occasional bad idea.
  • lordaeoloslordaeolos Posts: 74Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    That said, I'll grant that it's very clear which of the devs consider us a community and which consider us a nuisance.

    That really isn't a fair assessment. We in the player base do not know the scope of responsibilities being handled by any one member of the development team. Many of the developers probably do not have customer communication in their job responsibility description at all, and others are likely completely swamped. I do however agree the @asterdahl has been a model of the communication we in the community want to see on each of the feedback threads, and you can pretty clearly see how much smoother, more constructive, and player involved the feedback is on those threads.

    One of the things I would like to see (that also may reduce the amount of feedback workload for people like @asterdahl), is a player reported bug/ issue list at the top of each feedback thread. This is a way of acknowledging that feedback is being read, while not necessarily requiring as many direct responses, as well as a reference point for those finding new issues that may have already been reported. (I'm thinking of on-the-cheap product back-log for stakeholders in AGILE)
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Posts: 2,673Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited March 15
    I would say that no one is perfect in everything, or has the time to do everything, that is trivial and valid, but it's the Lead / Team manager to understand theirs and their team members strengths and weakness and assign the proper task to the best person to do it.

    The excuse of 'Person X has meetings' 'Person Y has other commitments' is just not valid, those meetings are part of the job, and the interaction here is part of the job, and if some tasks needs shuffling to get it done, then it needs to be done, and not finding reasons for why it is not done. This is part of what management does, manage. And as was mentioned, shuffling the tasks and help each other, so the workload and results are balanced, with consideration of strengths and weakness of the team members.

    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User
    edited March 15
    Some threats lack in response and some a filled with response. The first lack in progress, running in circles somehow and there is not much motivation to go on testing stuff and giving feedback, since you simply feel like wasting your time, not knowing if upcoming thoughts or changes will make it redundant retrospective.
    I also don´t think that classes have to be focussed at first, since there are other important things to get done like economy, companions, masterwork, dungeons, scaling etc..
    But pointing at a little disbalance concerning actual threats, I am not exaggerating.
    Maybe, if a dev shows up next time to support his team in a threat, he might take a look in advance, where this support might be a good invest and where not.
    If one threat has >100 responses and the other has actually 2, from wich one is a question and the second displays no feedback towards the playerbase, it should indicate where some help would be welcome. No communication needed, some issues can be discovered following statistical values.
    I am not interested in slowing down developer at all. But reading, that feedback is welcome and essential, I have to point at missing feedback on the other side, slowing some threats significantly down.
    So it´s maybe on you to decide if or if not feedback is welcome and I only can repeat. If you think feedback is actually needed in some aspects, there should be a little response. If not, you are free to say so, nothing bad about it.
    I only don´t like wasting my time by getting the impression that feedback get´s simply ignored.
    This has nothing to do with disrespect. Most of us do not have unlimited time to spend, some got jobs and maybe other stuff to head over. Feedback threats should have aspects of giving and taking in general.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Posts: 4,724Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    @schietindebux you need to realize that half the class threads are handled by asterdahl and the other half are handled by noworries. In fact, the person who manages a specific thread appears to be the person who created it. It is unreasonable to expect asterdahl to answer questions in noworries threads.
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Posts: 4,139Member Arc User

    @schietindebux you need to realize that half the class threads are handled by asterdahl and the other half are handled by noworries. In fact, the person who manages a specific thread appears to be the person who created it. It is unreasonable to expect asterdahl to answer questions in noworries threads.

    Not that I did not allready realized that point. I read through many, if not most other threats same as I tested content on my Paladin, CW, DC, Hunter and Warlock so far.
    I don´t like to point with the finger directly into one direction and I also have an idea that some devs might have more intensive time consuming tasks than others and by that have not the time to resond to every post, wich is indeed not necessary.
    This threat is created by Nicotris, and if the there is critizism upcoming, I might respond how some of it is generated.
    I also try myself to be respectfull, deleting any kind of unthoughtfull comments in a second step by reviewing my posts strictly.
  • drumon88drumon88 Posts: 142Member Arc User
    3 pages' worth of constructive feedback about the weird/broken/whatever scaling in 5-man instances in the Unexpected Difficulties thread, and radio silence about it from the devs, but the second someone says "hey thanks for the hard work" and one of them posts a self-congratulatory remark. I feel like all the feedback isn't even being looked at outside of the paladin and cleric threads.

    Pretty obvious that the only active dev on this site has a pet project (which he does a good job on, don't get me wrong), and I get the impression the other devs really just don't care. Kind of a bad feeling when you realize we're basically doing their job for them, for free.
  • arazith07arazith07 Posts: 274Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User



    Invalidating our current enchants for example is especially frustrating when they could have just switched them to something that is meaningful in the new system and thus they would still mean something from day one. Then you will tell me we can exchange them? My point is that if they had made these changes with us in mind, we wouldn't have to because they would still inherently be as meaningful for the new system as they are with the current system.

    There is an enchantment exchange, and the devs have stated it will go on live as well (including stuff for weapon enchants, armor enchants, old insigs, etc.

    There may not be one for companions or mounts, but that would also be a lot more difficult to code and aside from legendary mounts, doesn't really take a whole lot of time to grind the AD for. Most of the time and AD we sink into our characters are enchants, and guess what, we can just exchange those for a limited amount of time.

  • mongol69mongol69 Posts: 85Member Arc User
    edited March 15
    Any exchange information yet for handling runestones at this time? How will 1,2x,3x stat enchants translate to runestones in exchange, outside of current eldritch for bondings implementation?

    Edit: nevermind, found its discussed in redinement thread. Still not implemented.
    Post edited by mongol69 on
  • mynaammynaam Posts: 774Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    This post reminds me of the reason so few questions was asked at AMA. People are called TOXIC when they disagree and then simply do not participate. Maybe being toxic scares of people from participating
    Scaling/nerfing is punishing all players
    Thank you for removing il from pvp boon
    Master expiditions is a good idea. Thank you
    NERFING is not scaling
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    While I definitely don't condone outright bad behavior as that is counterproductive, it's really quite obvious by looking at the threads what the source is. People who behave in obviously terrible ways deserve what they get; everyone is responsible for their actions. But when the major source of negativity and toxicity is huddled together in certain places you should look at what's causing it instead of just blaming players for being bad.
  • mwkmwk Posts: 100Member Arc User
    edited March 16
    kythelion-"But when the major source of negativity and toxicity is huddled together in certain places you should look at what's causing it instead of just blaming players for being bad"-I'm just stating the community emotions, but I'm being civil, so don't take it personally from me. Also all of the developers need to take harsh constructive criticism, because reality we are the community or the player-base and your profit of what people have invested for so long in the game. Stripping everything so fast is simply causing the game community to go into panic mode by what they are seeing from streams and elsewhere by discussion. The reality can be toxic off these forums, but keep in mind I'm respectful to the TOS, but trying to point out what I'm seeing as feedback; it's not appealing for Mod 16.

    Let me get this straight, if I seem a bit toxic, I'm not trying to be. I'm not overloading with profanity and vulgar at all by actual words on purpose! So any quote from someone by bad language that's in "*", and if you want it removed, I will do so. However, I'm not putting asterisks with my own emotions or putting any bad language from myself, because I like to notify in a civil harsh manner that's not a direct call out, but game directed focus by performance game-play. I'm only quoting in such a way to make a point from a streamer YouTube comment by real reality that the majority of people are not pleased. I'm just not seeing much great progress so far after changes; so small increments. That being stated, I'm trying to give my suggestions for balance the best I can, but I'm being real, because that's majority of what I see everywhere. Whether it's Reddit, YouTube, ZoneChat in game, and elsewhere. I do have hopes, but at the same, I have my doubts by how much was removed all at once. So with that in mind for feedback, there is actual reality here. It's making a point that people are not pleased by the removal of things in Mod 16. Hopefully the game will be effective, otherwise I guess what we have now like Mod 15 with few changes.

    Stripping everything in the game is simply delaying the game and creating a lot of stress for months to figure it all out for everything to execute correctly. So that's why everyone is really negative toxic. So far people are negative and I'm trying to be positive to execute correctly for feedback, but point out that there's negative by majority, because people are getting more angry with Mod 16 by all the changes without much progress. It's just what I see is that everything is messed up for the classes. I don't know, but it seems that some of the developers got confused where to put skills and feats that make the paragon path. Lurkers is only in Whisperstrike on Rogue, which it is in both paragons I believe? At least Infiltrator and personally from a stand point I would like to play the same, rather than be forced in a way that I don't to perform well. Honestly I don't like gloaming cut, it's slow and only helps boost my stealth by 2 seconds by what it seems waiting to pop up off cooldown without gloaming cut; it's effective, but sorta effective. So I rely on encounters and feats by my paragon path for AP gain and use cloud of steel at-will and duelist flurry also stacking 10x; it's effective for fast kills. I like cloud of steel because it stacks 10x and I can kill from the distance, rather than running up to an enemy. So what I'm trying to point out is that stripping everything and being so limited on feats and boons, also the removal of lifesteal and recovery, just doesn't add up for effectiveness for the game-play. I hope something comes out well for all classes, otherwise the majority is just going be toxic, and that's going to hurt. I'm paranoid enough, but how Mod 16 is so far, it doesn't make any sense!

    Please please give us lifesteal and recovery back, but only in gear stats, not enchantments. I understand the problem, it's those long 20 cool-downs for encounters for example! I think if stacking is the problem, it's convenient for me having primal weapons and 540 item level gloves with gear stats of recovery adding to 3,271 to perform well with shady preparations feat and lurkers assault for example on rogue; the same for other classes on how they work. I see the problems so address it, because it's insane forcing players using at-wills 80%-90% of the time by their play-style

    So I'm sorry to state, it's really that bad right now. I hope Mod 16 comes out to something we all love. I'm trying to be positive, but I'm so incompetent to actually test for myself by setup. What I see is not pleasing from video by aftermath discussion streams, so I don't even want to. Besides I'm afraid I'll mess something up by transferring copy of my characters for preview. I'm really sorry and I'm not trying to influence everything really. I just hope there is balance to perform well for Mod 16 by all these changes. I guess it's my harsh perfectionism and down to earth nature at the same time that mixes to look negative, but wasn't meant to be really toxic at all. Though I like to be real, but again civil in discussion.

    For the most part there is huge concern by what I see everywhere and that's why I stated that lifesteal and recovery needs to be in gear stats only, not enchantments.

    Recovery and lifesteal in gear stats. Hmm seems to make sense. Just my two cents suggestion. So I think people mistake my intentions for attention feedback and I get often ignored. I'm just stating what I see from people elsewhere and it's not appealing at all. I like to make statements that is community behalf, rather than just myself. Yes it turns out that I concur with the majority about the problems in Mod 16, but I have to state the community needs with my half too. I've always been like that, yet for some reason people always don't read for connection or get the motive.

    So what I can state here? Stripping everything+community+paranoid=toxic community. That creates a lot of stress for developers, I understand that. Don't worry about it, just keep some old connections, we are good I guess? UHH? People are that emotional about Mod 16, yet I'm trying to be positive at the same time to see how it all comes out into play. Yet, I'm happy with how my MAIN ROGUE class performs now in Mod 15. So perhaps people don't understand classes or like to play a certain way? Me, I don't like play a certain way just a bit. That just regards only without gloaming cut and instead relying on some recovery, 10x stack skills, and feats. I only rely on lurkers and shady preparations with some recovery in gear stats on top it.

    Basically the old was all worked out for better advantages, but also the old had ways for other better advantages later in the fight I guess; depends on choice. So there was more variety in the game by play style. Now with Mod 16 being so limited and stripping everything from the game, it creates madness, when there is no connections.

    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Posts: 100Member Arc User
    edited March 16

    I was directly speaking to Julia, not to the posters previous me nor to you. If she wants the passive agressive behavior to end, they need to address why people are being driven to the behavior instead of just telling us to be nice. And it's more a result of the disparity between asterdahl and noworries. Half of the community\classes are being worked on. Not only is there feedback and dialogue, much appreciated and effectively smoothing the transition and encouraging positive behavior, but more importantly there is change being made. The other half of the community is getting nothing. No dialogue AND no changes or fixes. To make that worse, they were literally told in the Ranger thread that there are no plans to make changes because they're fine. With proven cases of incorrect damage tables, powers that deal 0 damage, feats and features that do not active for a majority of skills. So yes, people are VERY angry. And they're walking on the edge of bad behavior. Now, I don't think noworries is sitting at his desk drinking a pins colada laughing at us. I'm SURE he's working on something, probably really important. But his interactions (and lack thereof) make people bristle.

    You're fine LOL..."But when the major source of negativity and toxicity is huddled together in certain places you should look at what's causing it instead of just blaming players for being bad". Did make sense on some of post discussion that I posted. I didn't want to be looked at the wrong way. It was for my sake to share what I've seen elsewhere among the community. Wait are you referring to me kythelion?

  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Posts: 250Member Arc User
    Unless you are secretly noworries or Julia, no.
  • mwkmwk Posts: 100Member Arc User
    edited March 16

    Unless you are secretly noworries or Julia, no.

    Nvm then. I just used your quote for reason of my threads or one of threads to make a valid point. The toxicity outside of what I've seen outside forums about Mod 16 on constructive criticism.
  • bpstuartbpstuart Posts: 140Member Arc User

    Greetings Adventurers,

    With the changes happening in Undermountain, we know there are abundant and varied opinions across the community. The feedback threads are incredibly valuable and the team has been spending a larger portion of time engaging with the playerbase. The majority of the feedback and discussion has been constructive and respectful but due to the general increase in feedback itself, there is also an increase in toxic comments. While comments that are attacks or filled with profanity are a clear violation of the forum rules, some comments have begun to rely on passive aggression, "gotcha" rhetorical elements, persistent toxicity, and behavior that stops just short of crossing the line into a forum violation. These comments do not provide any constructive elements and serve to detract from fruitful engagement. Because of this, we will be monitoring them more closely and taking necessary actions to bring back the focus to more useful discussions.

    May i ask what is an example of these unacceptable '"gotcha" rhetorical elements' because in my posts i sometimes try to point out if something seems to not follow logically from a stated premise or intent, such as when i bemoaned the magnitude system because i felt it lacked communicability of damage estimates. i am legit looking for answers and not trying to be an HAMSTER when i do his.

    @asterdahl has been great in responding even if i wholeheartedly disagree with their reasoning at times.

    If anything i have said is an example of an irksome behavior i would like to know, because i have trouble communicating sometimes and have in the past caused greivence when not intended.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
Sign In or Register to comment.