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Official M16: Ranger

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  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User
    Just look at patch all classes with active responce from devs has bugg fixes and changes, Hr no responce no changes.

    Sure it is still time to fix things but as it stands I am giving up testing Hr on preview until we get an active dev that comments on all buggs and changed needed to be done to put Hr in par with the other dps classes.

    The only responce we had is that it is not much to fix which ofc makes you ask if they just given up on Hr class all together.....
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    The reason why there is not more feedback from other HR players might be that they already felt ignored in the past on HR issues. HR was, as many others already stated, broken in some ways nobody seemed likely to fix anyhow. I certainly didn't expect HR to run smoothly on preview, but that my 16k trapper with bis set (that I really love to play, despite the odds... I played only my HR for a year now, anyway) is doing worse in old content that I have run hundreds if not thousands of times than my 13/14k TR that I barely play and have not much knowledge of is kinda... sad?

    I don't want this to sound like TR is the issue (and I don't want this to be turned upside down): I had a similar experience with my other dps'ers. But I never wanted to play a gwf/other dps, so I compared it to what I already had ready - my TR. Only later when I saw the difference for myself I found out that it's not TR that is that good, but HR that's just so bad.

    I'm not gonna add numbers, because many ppl far smarter at it already did. What I'm saying is that I doubt ppl will give feedback just to fight a somewhat lost cause. If you think HR is already good-to-go (as there is no upgrade on it on the preview patch notes, for example) all I would ask for is a class change option for HRs.

    I know it won't happen, and while I already started preparing my TR I'm unsure if I wanna do all of it again. I strongly agree that HR feels incredibly clunky, the feats are all over the place. Even in the light of everybody being nerfed HR feels by far the worst to play in my opinion.
    I got on preview and tried build after build, I had cramps in my fingers :D. Nothing was really outstanding. I got on TR and chose what kinda made sense and it worked so much better that I just wanted to kick my HR out of the window, really.

    Talking to fellow HRs ingame is the same experience as here. Everybody is bitter and disappointed of being disregarded, especially when there is a gwf problem everybody is busy changing while HRs can't even kill a bunch of esot mobs without using stones and praying to survive.

    Please try to see the negative if somewhat moody feedback in this light: Many players really care about HR. They don't want it to be an easy class or wanna be top of paingiver just by hanging around. Everybody I know chose HR because they like knowing their class and working hard to make it a good dps, even if it might take more time/effort to be one. We could all play one other dps class, but we chose this one because we care about it. Thats a positive reason to be a bit negative, if it makes any sense. If you are offended by the tone of certain people, you could just... adress them? And not punish everybody who provided profound feedback.
    - bye bye -
  • inqusitorinqusitor Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    As of now when Im writing this there is about 60 replies from devs in Barbarian thread out of 9 pages and for HR there is ....3 replies from devs out of 7 pages in this thread.
    .....
    WTT for Asterdahl to rework HR.
    Sad hunter.
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    I've played my HR, OP, GWF, and DC on preview. The HR is so far behind in DPS it isn't funny, at least with a combat spec. And they're claiming they're overbalanced?

    Even ranged, where the offhand shouldn't matter.
    Edit: And while I tried the new suggested builds too, the only thing that worked for me personally was trapper (the old trapper build in every way I could make it work on hunter), because even tho the damage is no good and hunter is flawed, utilising two sets of encounters that somehow buff eachother a tiny bit still made it feel faster than remaining in a stance and waiting for a buff. But thats probably because I have played trapper for a while now, so it would feel natural.
    Thats also an issue for me - if combat would be the only thing to survive the mod (if flurry actually worked and at wills would be as useful as it was stated they should be) I will have no fun with it, I didn't start a HR to play combat. But thats just my personal issue.
    - bye bye -
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    They're realistically weeks away from balancing DPS. That part I'm less worried about. Making things work and changing things so synergy and fluidity are there needs to happen now while there's time to test it and work on it. Tweaking magnitudes and recharge times can come later once a workable base is established.
  • minotaur2857minotaur2857 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,141 Arc User

    They're realistically weeks away from balancing DPS. That part I'm less worried about. Making things work and changing things so synergy and fluidity are there needs to happen now while there's time to test it and work on it. Tweaking magnitudes and recharge times can come later once a workable base is established.

    Fluidity seems to be their main priority to eliminate in this module, I haven't found ANY of my characters on preview have any left.
  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 666 Arc User
    noworries#8859

    We want to help testing the issues with the class, to do so could you consider send us a a post with a brief description of the way the new ranger was pretended to work on each paragon ?

    At the moment i fell that Hunter is more focused on single target and warden on deal with mod masses, also warden looks more combat as Ranger more ranged, but those are assumption.
    I know that posting this "plans" or "vision" can may bring some complain, but this is inevitable and would be much more productive if we knew where to point our feedback just to be sure we are not aiming it backward.

    I ask this because i understand that damage and cooldown will be revised later, and i do believe that till the scaling system works ok is really hard to measure dps values.

    A list of issues already in your spot, if possible, would also be really useful so we don't keep beating the same point.


    I Know that you Guys must be really busy but this would help a lot the tests and feedback.
  • athena#9205 athena Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    I love HR, its been my main for 2 years that i've been playing. But the problem i see now with HR is the at wills are too weak on melee. I use clear the ground mostly because its large radius and quick attack that allows me to keep moving. all the other melee at will keep me in place too long and i get hit by mobs for standing still.
    1. Please increase the power of melee at wills to be comparable with mod 15 usefulness.
    2. While your at it please increase distance the HR makes on dashing with shift. Its been a headache for 2 years that i have to dash 3 times to avoid a Red attack. Please triple the distance a dash makes.
    3. Plant growth used to be the top encounter even with the long cool down, now hindering is top. please either reduce the CD of PG or increase the damage to be comparable with mod 15.
    4. HR needs at least one magnitude 800-1000 encounter on both paragons just like the other DPS classes.
    5. roots need to do more damage on initial hit and DOT, and i agree that weak roots needs to go away. increase Hindering shot roots to strong level and reduce the number to 2 instead of 3 with slightly longer spacing between shots.
    6. Please add a variation of life steal to roots as a feat. say 10% of root damage is returned as health as the roots sap the life of the target. the feat called "forest bond" should be this power instead.

    split the sky time is about 3 seconds but the tool tip says 1.5s 3 seconds is too long please reduce the time to 1.5s like promised.

    I just tested my new and improved HR against the wolves and werewolves in barovia with my LVL 80 weapons and it took 3 times longer to kill them than my live version. HR IS UNDERPOWERED ATM PLEASE FIX !!!! I tested my 12k OP in OMU and it was 3 or 4 times stronger dps on the tank and healadin side. please bring HR back to even with other DPS classes.
    Post edited by athena#9205 on
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Just a short story for entertainment...

    Cryptic is like a dad and HR is the son. All other classes are the sibling. So dad used to spoil all his kids with fast car. Then one day, all of them got caught in an illegal racing and dad is furious. He grounded all of his kids and takes back their key. Then all of his kid start complaining and crying about the loss of their fast car. So Dad decide to spilt the children into 2 group. While dad take care of a group, he gave mom the other group. Mom is quiet and doesn't talk much. HR behaves himself too and doesn't complain much. All he heard is the crying of his sibling on the other room with the barbarian being the loudest of them all. So HR thought every of his sibling are getting the same treatment and mom assure HR that he already got his dad favor. BUT then... One day.. he looks out of the window.. and saw.. brother Barbarian got HIS KEY BACK!! and he is zooming past the street with his fast car. So now HR stop behaving and start screaming and kicking like what brother barb did. So what's dad gonna do?
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    hawkend said:


    Swiftness of the Fox or Storm's Recovery in conjuction with AoE powers are multiproccing for every target hit.
    I have tested these feats interactions with Cordon of Arrows, Constricing Arrow, Plant Growth, Hindering Strike, Steel Breeze.

    This has been fixed now.

    split the sky and rain of arrows deal 0 damage when you swap to melee stance.

    cruel recovery is so useless.. there is a mount bonus that gives the same exact(?) effect such that on critical hit, heals for %hp with a cooldown of 2 seconds. THAT IS A TRASH FEAT.
  • durugudesudurugudesu Member Posts: 555 Arc User


    Bug: No daily other than Forest Ghost(or possibly Stormcaller, didn't get to 75 tonight) deals damage while in melee stance, nor do any ranged powers with ongoing effects (like Rain of Arrows) They inflict hits, the hits just do zero damage each.

    Putting it out there again. DAILIES and encounters like RoA, StS deal ZERO damage if you are on MELEE STANCE.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Let's hope they're doing this:

    Bringing barbie up to a finalized state. Then, using it's damage output as a benchmark, bringing all other dps classes up/down to par.

    Post edited by jonkoca on
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Let's hope they're doing this:

    Bringing barbie up to a finalized state. Then, using it's damage output as a benchmark, bringing all other dps classes up/down to par.

    ge/cc hanging over the class. It could also add a little much needed complexity to HR playstyle, rather than just the perennial button mashing.

    Its a bug, if you read the barbarian thread you would know this. There is an accidental PI multiplier against GWF dmg, making it do 3.14x the intended value. Divide their damage by PI and you have their intended dps.
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Fab, all the work you do number crunching, and now public liasoning too. They ain't payin' you enough my friend.

    I do keep reading the barbie thread, it's just the tears constantly blur my vision. I personally like to divide meal-times with pie, it's a valuable food-group after all. HRs-》elves-》trees-》apples-》pies, I'm seeing a connection here, HRs need added pie-damage too !

    Genius.

    But seriously, if someone would spend 30 seconds posting "Hey HRs, barbies are bugged, cool your jets" in the HR feedback thread where all the HRs are moping, might have spared me and others some grief.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Except damage vs Barbie isn't what needs to be on the table right now. Making powers work is. Quit complaining about other classes and moping about damage numbers that aren't final for anyone yet. Start doubling down on getting attention for powers that deal zero damage, or aren't proccing, or are proccing too much.

    Also please quit speculating on why he's not fixing things to propose downgrades. Judging from previous experience he might take your suggestions to downgrade things even if it isn't necessary.
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    @jonkoca @kythelion#3210, (even @thefabricant :-))
    Let's try not to insult each other, shall we?
    Let's try to be constructive.

    It's nice to read other threads and compare them to get understanding what's going on in general.
    It's nice to pay attention to bugs on your class as well as bugs on other classes.


    Current problem about new HR is not that its dps is good/bad in comparison to new GWF.
    Current problem is that it's 'not so enjoyable' to play on PTR, in comparison to its current state on LIVE, as most people in this thread claim. It feels clunky, it feels slow, it feels unbalanced.
    Current problem is that there are so many bugs on PTR related to HR powers (and qty of those bugs increases with each patch) that it's hard to realize what potential new HR has, how is it performing in general (incl. in comparison to other classes).
    Current problem is that one of closed mod 16 testers gave up on giving further feedback and switched to other class, because of lack of communication from dev team on HR changes.
    Current problem is that we need feedback from devs.



    Yes, we want feedback from devs, but why? - because @noworries#8859 claimed that class was overbalanced and then the other guy came and said that multiple tickets were created to adress problems of new HR, and then... silence,
    which might mean any of the following:
    1. 'HR overall is done (as its concept of how the class should behave in new module), but bugs are to be fixed, and we create tickets to fix them'
    2. 'HR was intended to be done, but then we decided to create tickets that involve some balancing as well as fixing bugs.'
    3. 'HR was intended to be done, but there are so many problems, that we have numerous tickets but HRs should not worry because we will adress it all in time'
    4. 'HR was intended to be done, but there are so many problems that we can barely adress some of the most crucial problems, if we can.' (=HR will remain a mess, the players who use them are to leave game or switch to other class)

    Dear developers,
    if you plan to fix ALL bugs on HR just a day before release, then this thread is pointless, because there won't be enough time for players to test and give you feedback. And HR will meet live either as ridiculously overpowered (and then fast nerf will follow, which most likely will kill all potential) or weak (and then there's a small chance then in 3-6 months after release HR will get some improvement).

    Dear developers,
    PLEASE, spare some details about what are you going to do with HR!
    Or, at worst, give us the opportunity to reroll the class (as somebody already suggested), if you are not going to fix it!
    It might end up that some component of software is in bad state: e.g. code is ugly and nobody can understand how to fix it, or design is so bad, that it's hard to balance. But why punish players, who used to enjoy the balanced state of the class like it was in mod 15 (I do not mean that HR had no issues, but still, at least in PVE HR is overall ok)?
    Maybe it's a good idea to give class reroll to other classes as well?

    Thanks,
    @userutf8


    ABSOLUTE
  • jonkocajonkoca Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,586 Arc User
    Smart thinking. Fair enough, koca out.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • kangkeokkangkeok Member Posts: 1,123 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Frankly, in the end of the day, I just want all class to be balanced across the board with all the bug fixed and power polished. I don't want HR to be too OP neither I want the other class to out perform HR by miles. I want people to pick their group member based on gear score again and not by the class they play. I don't want anyone get left out of the game just because of the class they choose. If the developer could make this happen, then I m fine with whatever.

    I hope the community could respect class balance as well. It the way to ensure a wider range of people to play with. By making a class to out perform the other by miles whether its by exploit or not are going to cause lesser range of people to play with us. Not mention it will also make the meaning of competitive play less worth. I believe we are all here to have fun with other player and not to be the god all-mighty one that suck up all the fun for yourself. Because if u are, u might consider a single player game.

    A game without fairness is no longer a game. A fun that's born out of unfairness, isn't really a fun.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    Rain of Arrows and Marauders also begin to deal 0 damage when you swap stances.

    Thorned Roots that proc from Hindering Strike deal 0 damage.
    Post edited by kythelion#3210 on
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    BUG: Marauder's Escape doesn't consume Aspect of the Serpent stacks

    1. Slot Aspect of the Serpent and switch to melee stance
    2. Build 3 ranged stacks of Aspect of the Serpent via Rapid Strike
    3. switch to ranged
    4. cast Marauder's Escape
    Actual:
    You now have 1 melee stack and 3 ranged stacks

    Expected:
    You now have 1 melee stack and 2 ranged stacks

    Impact:
    You can build 3 melee and 3 ranged stacks which results in perma 6% boost (tested on rapid strike and rapid shot with dmg 1000 weapons) if you couple it with the other bug (which I guess was reported already):
    if you build stacks and swap AotS for the other passive, stacks remain as well as icon even if you switch to other loadout).




    ABSOLUTE
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    Hmm, when using AotS with rapid shot and rapid strike, my damage is reduced by 2% for each stack consumed.

    No stacks: shot = 463 strike=289
    At 3 stacks: shot = 447
    At 2 stacks: shot = 438
    At 1 stack: shot = 429
    At 3 stacks: strike= 279
    At 2 stacks: strike= 274
    At 1 stack: strike =268

    Completely butt naked, no comps or feats, training weapons. On a dummy.
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    userutf8 said:

    BUG: Marauder's Escape doesn't consume Aspect of the Serpent stacks

    1. Slot Aspect of the Serpent and switch to melee stance
    2. Build 3 ranged stacks of Aspect of the Serpent via Rapid Strike
    3. switch to ranged
    4. cast Marauder's Escape
    Actual:
    You now have 1 melee stack and 3 ranged stacks

    Expected:
    You now have 1 melee stack and 2 ranged stacks

    Impact:
    You can build 3 melee and 3 ranged stacks which results in perma 6% boost (tested on rapid strike and rapid shot with dmg 1000 weapons) if you couple it with the other bug (which I guess was reported already):
    if you build stacks and swap AotS for the other passive, stacks remain as well as icon even if you switch to other loadout).




    I just managed to do this myself.
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    Hmm, when using AotS with rapid shot and rapid strike, my damage is reduced by 2% for each stack consumed.

    No stacks: shot = 463 strike=289

    That's something wrong here, bro ;-)

    What STR do you have?
    Are you sure that you haven't swapped Seeker with AotS? (because 463 is very close to 400 * 1.1 * 1.05 * 1.00096 = 462.44)
    Also, notice, that if you respec: seeker is auto-picked

    FYI:

    Rapid Strike magnitude 4 hits combo = {25;15;20;40}
    Rapid Shot magnitude combo 3 hits = {40;40;70}
    STR 20 gives buff of 5% ( = 20 * 0.25% per STR point)
    ->
    without buffs with STR 20 and fixed 1000 main hand only you should do exactly:
    {420;420;735} on rapid shot

    Also you can get 100 dmg fixed weapons in ToB.
    They do not have that useless 48 power addition.
    And you can check how rounding is done and it's simpler to calculate, as 100 dmg weapon means that your hit ~ magnitude * buffs
    ABSOLUTE
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited March 2019
    AotS and Primal Instincts. I wanted to focus on just AotS. If you know what I did wrong, please enlighten me. That's what I put it in here for, cause somtsometis clearly wrong. And why I didn't put it in red.
  • userutf8userutf8 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited March 2019

    AotS and Primal Instincts. I wanted to focus on just AotS. If you know what I did wrong, please enlighten me. That's what I put it in here for, cause somtsometis clearly wrong. And why I didn't put it in red.

    It's all cool, mate.

    I'm on PTR , and everything is WAI except for rounding, but that's not a big deal:

    Rapid Shot without serpent is 419 (OK)

    Rapid Shot with 3 stacks
    [22:48] [Combat (Self)] Your Rapid Shot deals 320 (445) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
    445 = ROUND(420 * 1.06) = ROUND(445.2) = 445 (OK)

    Rapid Shot with 2 stacks
    [22:48] [Combat (Self)] Your Rapid Shot deals 314 (436) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
    436 ~ ROUND(420 * 1.04) = ROUND(436.8) = 437 (OK)

    Rapid Shot with 1 stack:
    [22:48] [Combat (Self)] Your Rapid Shot deals 154 (427) Physical Damage to Target Dummy.
    427 ~ ROUND(420 * 1.02) = ROUND(428.4) = 428 (OK)

    now we take your numbers:
    447 = 421.6981 * 1.06
    438 = 421.1538 * 1.04
    429 = 420.5882 * 1.02

    means that with zero stacks your Rapid Shot must deal ~ 421 damage
    your 463 comes from 10% damage buff, as 421 * 1.1 = 463,10
    and that 10% is most likely Seeker's Vengeance, which you possibly forgot to swap when you were testing damage without stacks.

    That's really annoying but when you respec Hunter, you always get that seeker buff picked, so it's all cool

    P.S.
    Thanks for confirming the bug about ME and AotS stacks, btw
    Post edited by userutf8 on
    ABSOLUTE
  • kythelion#3210 kythelion Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    I'll try it again. :) This time triple checking. I'd had primal and cruel recovery prior testing something else, but it's definitely possible it got accidentally switched.
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