I tried this post once already but it didn't seem to stick, so this will be less wordy, maybe that is for the best.
I'm not sure if I understand "Magnitude", "Added Effect" and "Judgment" correctly in Arbiter. From what I've gathered "Magnitude" is the relative strength of the spell/attack, "Added Effect" is something the spell does that is not heal or damage and "Judgment" is added only if all the pips are full.
So if I am mistaken on any of those this may be moot. But the confusion is why I wanted to give feedback.
1. Can "Magnitude" be defined someplace in tooltip or tutorial? 2. If the above is correct, can "Added Effect" be "Effect"? I kept trying to figure out how -I- was supposed to add the effect. 3. If all the pips are needed for Judgment can that be added in tooltip or tutorial?
I'm enjoying Arbiter so far but wanted to make sure I understood it fully.
Find me in game with @DoctorBadger (Un)Academic Field Work Foundry Campaign: NWS-DAPZB2CTZ
1
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
I tried this post once already but it didn't seem to stick, so this will be less wordy, maybe that is for the best.
I'm not sure if I understand "Magnitude", "Added Effect" and "Judgment" correctly in Arbiter. From what I've gathered "Magnitude" is the relative strength of the spell/attack, "Added Effect" is something the spell does that is not heal or damage and "Judgment" is added only if all the pips are full.
So if I am mistaken on any of those this may be moot. But the confusion is why I wanted to give feedback.
1. Can "Magnitude" be defined someplace in tooltip or tutorial? 2. If the above is correct, can "Added Effect" be "Effect"? I kept trying to figure out how -I- was supposed to add the effect. 3. If all the pips are needed for Judgment can that be added in tooltip or tutorial?
I'm enjoying Arbiter so far but wanted to make sure I understood it fully.
You are right about Magnitude, it's basically the damage coefficient that applies to the damage formula (combined with weapon damage, power, crit sev, vs defensive stats etc). Added effect is right, it's the extra bits that are added after damage takes place (stuns, roots, buffs/debuffs, etc) With Judgement, the bonus magnitude is applied with any amount of pips (note that the damage won't change terribly much between each pip, but the effect of all 6 vs none will definitely be notable).
My feedback so far, from leveling my DC to level 79:
The class, running a healing spec, has been the most survivable thus far while soloing. Fairly slow at killing mobs, but to be expected from this build. I have reached the limit though for survivability with the level 79 mobs, since they did manage to beat me down. Which brings me to my next point.
The divinity "mechanic" is not good. It gets used up fairly quickly, far too quickly when soloing normal content. Then it takes way to long to recharge by using the tab key. Reminds me a LOT of old everquest 1, where you spent forever recharging in between fights. It's somewhat disappointing to see the devs repeating the sins of everquest, which was not a good game.
At least one of the at-wills needs to replenish divinity. Probably all of them, to be honest, or that one will be the goto, leaving the rest unused. It also needs to replenish fairly quickly, or the party will be in trouble in protracted boss fights.
I'm looking at some of the single target heal spells, and have no clue how you would use them in a chaotic boss fight, unless there's some macro to be provided. ( not a big fan of macroing btw ) In a game like WoW, you can click on the party member in the group list to target a heal spell - you cant do that in this game.
I join the list of people who do not approve of replacing a buff-centric playstyle with pure healing. You're going to lose a lot of players, since a healing role tends to be a lot more stressful on the player.
Here is my feed back on the mod 16 cleric after the recent update
Arbiter
I've played a bunch of group content as an arbiter and have been anywhere from 2-4 on the dps scores in the groups i've run with. I'm not sure what the intentions are for DPS cleric but if the idea is to have them compete with top dps paths then a solid AoE spell is what is missing. Something wider range than daunting and maybe with a tad more magnitude otherwise it will just be a sort of fun 2nd/3rd dps role in dungeon runs. I do think you are very close on the divinity regeneration with the cleric as a whole the difference was noticeable enough and it increased the flow of play without the gimmick bastion trick
Devout
like the changes here with the option to move with astral shield i think it helps the cleric shield the tank and move out of the red while still shielding the tank so he can take the red hit with the shield as intended. there are still some feats/passives that dont make sense for these clerics paths however. you have the arbiter with a 20% heal and devout with 1% dmg or something like that. seems like you should reverse those especially after the arbiter bastion nerf. Aside from that i just have some suggestions and ideas that you will take into consideration or hopefully spark a similar idea that can even be incorporated down the road if not for this next mod
- Forgemaster AoE -- give it a feat choice where it hits maybe 3 or 5 targets (similar to live use when empowered) and then some of the magnitude is split into those targets damage so say 900 mag ~> 3 targets at 300 each or something like that. Arbiter needs better AoE!!! lol - Geas/BTS AoE -- so these are single target spells that dont run on divinity and therefore have monster cool downs so when cast on a non boss mob it hits one mob and wont be cast again until the next pack of mobs to me its not worth bringing especially if the mobs are getting melted rather quickly (it hits 1 mob 3 sec later it dies wait 25 to cast again) so instead have it hit 3 mobs or so to justify running it with the long cool downs - At-will -- Im not sure how much this would "break" the arbiter but a feat maybe even at level 80 or something where at-will gives 2 pips per use. It goes back to earlier comments of what are the intentions of DPS cleric? i think this might put them on the next level. Would definitely like to try it for a week just to see and if its too OP then well at least u tried it. Using At will to gain pips to convert then rebuilding those stacks to use Forge can take a long time - Searing Light -- i dont run this but have seen many comments on here saying line format is no good, how about changing it to a cone shape? and trying to see if thats better? - Divinity Restoration -- There has been a lot of talk about divinity resto outside of battle and both sides have good points. However there should be no reason that divinity isnt fully restored at a camp site especially since health is, a camp should "fully restore" a character
saving the best for last
- Divinity regen Armor Kits -- With the nerf of AP gain, removal of regen that is 2 kits you have to remove from professions - well how about replacing one of those with divinity regeneration kits that you can put on your armor or your belt/ring/waist or just your Shirt and Pants (since everfrost is the only thing for them). this way you dont have to mess with the divinity regen formula but players get a chance to bump up their divnity gain a little with some armor kits you could craft at lvl 80. There currently is a Stamina regen kit for tanks so it should only be fair that pally and cleric get a divinity regen kit as well. I think this would satisfy the masses some when it comes to divinity regen
I am excited about the potential and the apparent willingness to make changes to the game. I only hope that you guys will invest to transform PvP into a fun dimension of NWO, as it was once a long time ago. I think this will take a long time to implement though.
Here are my first impressions of PvP with an Arbiter DC, after a few days of trying him out in domination, mainly 1v1 and much less in a 2v2 setup, between the 2nd and 6th of March. I will inevitably have to compare the DC to other classes to benchmark its performance, relative strengths and weaknesses.
The first main point I will make though, and you have mentioned it in your introduction, is that the burst damage of daily powers, but also some encounters, is substantially too high. Examples below.
Bugs The CC-system is also imbalanced and bugged – often I appear to be visually cc’ed, i.e. there is the daze sign above my head and the audio is blurred, but I manage to dodge or cast a power. Some cc powers seem to last forever (5-7 seconds) and some classes can chain cc still.
Another feature(/bug?) that will most certainly impact PvP in a direct and negative way if it goes live is the artifacts that one shot anyone within sight – Oghma one shots multiple enemies for instance; it is not the only one. Sigil of the Devoted heals for 200k HP – is that intended?
Feedback General setup and feedback: The setup I used is Forgemaster’s Flame + Break the Spirit + Bastion of Health with the passive that grants a damage boost and the one the reduces incoming damage. Dailies were Guardian of Faith + X. I never used X though due to the massive burst that GoF is capable of.
Tankiness and reliance on BoH as a DPS class: The A-DC is not tanky. I find troubling is that the A-DC’s tankiness only comes from BoH, which heals for a lot, admittedly. No successful damage mitigation powers that are worth mentioning currently (not even geas) given the extent of the burst. And obviously, BoH does nothing against one shots.
Healing vs (lack of) CC: A-DC can heal, but has no access to meaningful CC encounters. Chains is not useful in PvP...at all. CC provides both offensive capabilities but also substantially increases a class’ tankiness. Perhaps the DC’s lack of any single-target encounter that CC’s should be reviewed; on the other hand I am not persuaded that hard CC AND healing are both simultaneously desirable on a “DPS” class, to avoid making it overpowered.
Judgement and Tab mechanic: Given that the only damaging power I used was FF, I needed to tab every so often to recharge. Two things were frustrating with this: (1) The need “waste” a dodge to get out of tab mode (pray) – it would have been better to be able to get out of pray mode either just by walking or by pushing tab again (this did not seem to work). It is kind of weird also, visually and conceptually, to pray for half a second in mid-combat, before dodging. (2) There is no way of knowing how many judgement pips I need to “pray away” to be able to use FF again, after it goes on cooldown. Every time I dodge around an enemy and try to refill my judgement pips, I know that I can only cast at-wills and use BoH to heal myself; I cannot attack and this is where I am at my most vulnerable. If there was a visual queue that indicated how many judgement pips I needed to sacrifice so as to be able to use FF again, that would minimise time wasted.
A-DC vs CW CW tried both setup with Ice-Knife and the other daily where you can chain encounter powers. CW was very effective at controlling me with EF and Imprisonment. If he had IK ready while I was affected by EF, that was the end of me – one shot me (around 240k HP).
Aside from IK, he did nice damage to me. The way I survived was trying to predict/dodge his cc and use bastion of health to heal up. At the same time, building stacks of fire was essential, as frequently as I could. When my daily was ready, the only way to kill him was to prone him with GoF and follow up with a fully empowered FF. GoF was not enough to one shot CW, but still did very high damage. Without slotting Bastion, I would be dead in seconds though.
I think that A-DC vs CW could potentially be a fun duel, if all the burst damage values are toned down significantly to rule out one-shots. Note that at the time of testing, neither of us had the new weapons and the damage was already as described above, way too high.
A-DC vs GF I fought more than 1 BiS GF 1v1. I was not able to kill them. Anvil was capable of one shotting-me. Mow Down was also capable of 1 (or 2) shotting me. On the odd occasion that I managed to do some severe damage, it was not nearly enough to kill the GF. Also, they seem to have great CC capabilities and prones, which they can chain one after the other to finish you in one rotation – BoH was of little use here. There is no hope of fighting a GF successfully as things stand currently.
A-DC vs OP
I didn’t test this duel very much. On the 3-4 duels I had, the OP one shot me for more than 300k with a daily.
Also what needs to be noted that the biggest contribution so far that an A-DC can make in a 5v5 setup seems to be spamming BoH to heal allies, while dodging in between to avoid being killed. I have tested the Devout DC even less, but its performance is bad given that its ability to be a threat to others is non-existent coupled with its susceptibility to dying rapidly.
I can’t comment yet on duels vs. the other classes since I have only done a couple of duels with each.
totally with the above comment. No way to fight GF at a current state of game 100%. Instant death with current control, DEFENCE and anvil damage. CW will most likely kill me with the current state of BoH nurf. No way to fight a trapper as well. Instant death with current daily spam and dazes. Rogues are predictable and 50/50 Palas - hitting too hard, predictable 50/50 chances Barbs - havent tried Warlocks - havent tried.
I finally got to the point in the campaign where I defeated the Shadow dragon, and felt this would be a good spot to make some observations.
I played through the campaign as Arbiter, and my conclusion is that it works well enough for solo play.
The campaign difficulty felt just about right for me (until I reached Vanrakdoom, but I see that more as an issue with that area). What I mean by "just right", is that it was not absurdly easy, like the solo content on live - I actually had to be careful, think about timing and such. For the whole journey from 70 to 79, I actually died a few times (but in two cases that was due to falling), and I had to use a health stone twice. However, I did this as an IL 20K character, with fairly decent stat combinations - someone with minimal gear will probably find the journey tougher - perhaps too tough.
Gameplay as Arbiter is reasonably smooth. It may not be as great as the old DO/Righteous solo build, but it is smooth enough for solo play, so the mechanisms work well enough. Pausing between fights to press Tab for 20 seconds is kind-of boring, though - I would have liked a faster recharge when you are out of combat.
The burning/radiant pips may be slightly confusing at the start, but people should work them out quickly enough. The problem, however, is that you are more tied to specific rotations than before. For example you used to be able to cast a single target encounter power or an AoE one as combat demanded, but now you are effectively being restricted by the pips you have ..... combat now is just 1-1-1-1-1-1-2-3-tab-1-1-1-1-1-1-4 over and over.
Powers are a mixed bag. Some of them feel great, but others are just a waste of a slot. This is not really an issue, as we have enough good ones, but it does mean that it wouldn't really make a big difference if half of the powers were just removed. I could point out the issues with the "bad" ones, but I would just be repeating what others have said before. (just look at what Sylux said, for example)
The feats are where I have a problem. Many of them are just "if you use this power, that other power will be a bit better", Sorry, but if you don't use one of those powers, the feat is effectively useless. In my case, 7 out of the 10 feats were irrelevant for that reason.....and then I had to make a choice between two of the remaining ones.
As I said above, the feats are not that great. It feels like here is no real logic to them - they do not seem designed to support different playstyles, for example...just support different sets of powers, most of which people will not be using anyhow, and I fail to see any real logic in how they are paired up. In other words, apart from the feats, the Arbiter is OK.
To clarify what I mean by "different playstyles", I mean that you might have a choice between a feat that boosted some AoE effect and a feat that boosted damage against a single target - or perhaps a choice between a feat that was useful for a "ranged" attack, versus a feat that was useful for those who like to fight up close and personal.
Actually, I don't like the whole design of having to chose between pairs of feats at all. This was a big annoyance with the old boons - sometimes you had to choose between two "good" or two "bad" ones and both situations were annoying. Now, that got fixed for the boons, but the "either or" choice got implemented for the feats instead.
Why not just give us a pool of 10 feats, and allow us to pick any 5 we like ? Would have been much better.
As for Devout, I have not played that enough to comment on it.
My other issues with the Cleric are not specific to the paragons, but rather the class as a whole.
I have mentioned it elsewhere, but I will repeat it here - REALLY I do not like how the stats for Clerics are treated. Our highest initial ability score is in Wisdom as it should be, but Wisdom is utterly useless for clerics. This is just wrong.
Another problem is that it feels like healers are neglected/forgotten when it comes to gear. Look at the new weapon sets, or the gear available in the Undermountain campaign store. I do not see a single item that screams "Use me if you are a healer". All the gear seems designed to allow DPSers to do more DPS or to allow Tanks to tank better. Mod 16 effectively takes away a lot of freedom to force people into one of 3 rigid roles, DPS, Tanks and Healers, but then one of those roles is being neglected when it comes to gear choices. Yes, I realize this has nothing to do with the Clerics design and probably is the responsibility of a different developer, but this is an issue, and it does make people less enthusiastic about playing healers.
I'm glad to hear that Arbiter worked well for the campaign, and felt reasonably smooth. The fact that your biggest problem area was feats is relieving, as that's the area I plan to adjust the most. I apologize that I haven't had time to get to them yet, I'm still hoping to get the adjustments in for this week's build, but I will update you as soon as I know.
In regards to ability scores, please direct that feedback to the thread about ratings. Although your feedback is related to the ratings and how they tie into cleric, I'd say that the core of your feedback is about the ability scores themselves, and Cleric is tangential, so it would be best for Noworries to see your feedback.
Finally: on the topic of equipment, I'll pass your feedback along to our item designer. I'm sorry there's not a lot of exciting options for healer at the moment.
I played around with a lowbie Cleric that I transferred over after completing the first batch of missions required before you can enter Neverwinter proper.
I noticed immediately that my Cleric had an "unlisted" at-will. "Scattering Light" was shown as being a "Paragon" at-will when I moused over it on my powers bar but it was not listed anywhere on my powers list. Never mind that I am currently level 6 and selecting my paragon path is still quite a ways off.
Whether this sticks around after I select a paragon path or it gets replaced, I think that it should be listed at least up to that time.
Survivability has not been an issue at all thus far. I feel like I am probably using my at-wills too much, saving my encounters and daily for important moments that I don't really seem to be experiencing, but I'll get used to the flow as I play more I am sure.
Not really a fan of the Sacred Flame animation, but Lance of Faith is now an Arbiter at-will, so I don't know what might be available to use instead. In any event, that's just my opinion. I prefer something more direct from the cleric for these basic things than balls of fire dropping from above.
There were a couple of other issues but they are more properly placed in general (my companions doing a whopping 1 damage with every attack) or stats and mechanics (having my attributes changed but not being able to move my +3 stat bonus based upon what the different stats do now).
Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to check out the low level Cleric experience on preview, I appreciate it! I'm glad you weren't having much trouble. I'm also sorry to hear that you're not a fan of Sacred Flame. We did put together some new visual effects for Sacred Flame that I feel are a big improvement over live, but I understand where you're coming from with your personal preferences.
As for scattering light, it's not intended to be displayed as a paragon power, that's a bug, and I apologize. You'll always have access to that power once you unlock it.
One more thing (for now)… Having encounter powers that are fueled by divinity is what it is, but there is no divinity meter for these lowbie Clerics to actually see where they sit regarding encounter usage until we get to a higher level.
I think that if we are going to have encounter powers fueled by divinity, we need a divinity meter as soon as the first encounter power becomes available to our character.
The divinity meter not displaying before a certain level is absolutely a bug, and I apologize for that. We'll definitely have that fixed before live, one of our developers is going over the low level tutorials and early game experience now, to make sure they all get updated properly.
Played a bit more of the Arbitor path after the patch went up. I am enjoying how it plays much more now. Divinity gain feel right, I can't spam encounters, but I can go effortlessly from mob pack to mob pack without feeling the need to stand around channeling divinity. Encounters feel meaningful and the balance for bastion is great. I have not done any group play yet, but thank you for listening to feedback @asterdahl!
It's my pleasure! I am glad to hear you're having a better time of it, and look forward to hearing more of everyone's feedback, good or bad.
@""nezdin#5514" The ability to one-shot a class easily in PVP just confirms my observation in PVE. Some classes dps relies to a big amount on dailies on a single target. My crappy Hunter can buff it's range damage up to 50% dealing 500k crits with lowest stats.. Hopping on my GWF with no gear for 2 min, it is like wasting 30 at wills doing not much vs that dummy, pressing "1", my daily hits for absurdly high numbers out of nowhere. If you happen to face a Hunter in PVP, I'd be interested about your comment. But from my actual experience about classes, the chance that PVP will be from any interest for some classes is 0.0001%. A GF can shield same as dps with encounter that deal burst with 1600 mag. Same as OP can heal, shield and deal 200k hits with encounter like Smite, not to talk about the daily etc. Shielding 80% same as healing same as doing burst that like and the fact movement is an ability only some classes will have access to (not DC), tells a lot about PVP. No need to be an Orakel to predict, that PVP is gonna be a battleground for tanking classes. Not sure which class will be from relevance on top... maybe a kamikaze-Hunter up on a pillar one shooting classes and rooting them, maybe a wizard from distance if he can cc and Dodge those 200+ hits. Warlock got no Dodge low mobility now, no burst, lowest hitting daily from all classes (1/2 to 1/3 compared to other classes). So it's easy to predict that warlocks same as DC's will not take part on a competitive level. Only option may be, stack defence, deflect same as power to a max level and head for a healing specc... But I doubt healing abilities will not help at all against oneshots
on the other hand - with the pips to give us divinity back, having a high cost heal for arbiter seems to make sense - the arbiter is therefor the occasional clutch heal, it's not gonna be a regular thing.
I believe I posted on this thread that the change was coming before it dropped this week, but I apologize for everyone who was shocked by the change. Glowingember has it right though, Bastion of Health as an emergency heal in group settings, or as something for soloing and low-member parties.
As Arazith07 also points out, this change was to prevent Arbiter from being able to out heal the healing path, which it absolutely could because it has a very mobile divinity meter, as opposed to a slow pool that can run out. If you're having trouble with divinity on Arbiter, try taking a bit to practice with the Scales of Judgement mechanic and its interaction with Channel Divinity.
The divinity cost of 380 was chosen to prevent Arbiter from casting Bastion of Health more than twice consecutively without channeling. As for the adjustment to the feat, as I mentioned in an earlier post, this feat was meant as a utility choice, it was never intended that Bastion of Health would make up part of a viable DPS focused rotation. Huge amounts of incidental healing as part of a DPS rotation would be highly problematic. That said I'll be re-examining feats more generally soon, that feat may be cut entirely, but I wanted to get a fix in for last week's build so that people wouldn't spend more time with something that was going to change dramatically or be removed.
I do apologize for how disruptive all the change can be as you're trying to re-learn your class. I assure you, we're not making the changes to make it frustrating, but we can't hold back from changing things as quickly as possible on the preview server so we can get more feedback from newer iterations of the class, even if that means big nerfs or changes.
Mod 6 had a lot of thought changes but we got though it because we got a cooler class mechanic and a great buff potential, mod by mod we got nerfed by this dev team, it hurt but our devotion was still rewarded, but this is the mother of all nerfs in all game, but mostly in DC protagonism, yes, we were too broken I can buy that, I can understand to be left at a 1/4 of our actual offensive/defensive buff , but what I can't understand is that you tell us to stand still in an "action" game, to be reduced to a little options of builds, you said there are a lot of useless builds, instead of trying to understand why current feats can lead you to a useless build you just wipe them up. You spend years on "balancing the game" then suddenly everything was wrong and you remake it almost from the ground, what's the point on that, if buffs lead to ridiculous numbers why didn't you just reduced wepon damage by 1000 and all buffs and debuffs ad half? Why you have to spend your time on a non asked complete overhaul when you were the closest to the balance on pve the game has ever be? You just are pissing off the players.
Hi Miguelfdz, I appreciate you taking the time to check out the changes and provide feedback. I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy with the changes, but I would like to take a moment to address a few things: as far as why we can't just reduce weapon damage by 1000 and halve all buffs to fix the issue—there's a few answers to that. First, the problem with buffs and debuffs is that they have a non-linear, runaway effect, so simple reductions wouldn't be enough to solve the issues.
Moreover, it wasn't just that buffs and debuffs were too strong, but other things like shields, temp HP and healing were too strong as well, and more often than not these ultra-strong effects were an afterthought on another power that also healed and did damage, and julienned fries.
In the case of Cleric, since clerics were kings and queens of the world of buffs, it's obviously going to be one of the classes most affected by the changes. I apologize for how shocking and disruptive these changes can feel. I do believe that some Clerics who really wanted to heal will be happy with the changes right away, as they now allow for a healing-focused play style, but I understand that not everyone is going to be happy with the changes, and I apologize. Have you tried playing as an Arbiter cleric at all yet? You may find the gameplay style more enjoyable.
I do hope you'll continue to play on preview over the coming weeks, and give the changes a chance. There are more changes coming, I've heard all of your feedback and I do more changes in store.
I dont understand all the drama over sunburst all these years from day one. It's obvious players dont like the knockback - it drives other player nuts when dc uses the knockback in groups. A simple change to make it a daze or knockdown or stumble would have solved the issue. It's not a defining feature to a dc, why is this conversation still happening?
EDIT: I will add this - with the amount of cc immune mobs that have been added to dungeons, i would use sunburst to act as a clutch heal when players had the tendency of standing behind me. It also added a great deal of damage and ap generation with the fastest cd => more ap more flamstrike. so much damage for the dc was placed in flamestrike the more often we can cast it the better our dps. Edit 2 - i'm gonna miss the heal - but i like the heavy sun feat so much that if it works as the tooltip says, i will always pick it.
I think there are times where you still want to make use of the knock back, such as PvP as well—but I do hear the feedback. I'm not closing the door on possible changes.
At first I was so excited about this new mod. but now I find the Cleric too easy to play. No skill or thought is really needed to and I personally feel this game had taken a back step for AC DC (sound like all classes and the method of playing) In my opinion my 5 year old granddaughter could play the test sever and I feel we have no choice but to become cookie cutter players. Hopefully some changes come or they put this mod on the back burner and re evaluate it. I'm not going to just stand there and throw a skill here and there BORING. How to fix this, I'm not sure except go to another game and that will very upsetting. tears. We are at the a certain level of skill and game playing. I don't feel this mod will continue the evolution or a positive improvement to the mmropg gaming community. Sorry my opinion.
I see some other players offering comments like this, but what specifically is the issue? How is M16 Cleric gameplay less complex than that of M15 AC DC, which is decidedly cookie-cutter if you are playing optimally? Seriously, you don't even have to care what you're attacking as long as you're hitting your powers in the appropriate sequence and casting AA constantly; you don't even need to really attempt to heal anyone and have no expectation at all of dealing meaningful damage.
I don't ask these questions to be belligerent; I'm genuinely curious as to why players feel that meaningful choices have been taken away and/or that their classes have become dumbed-down. To use Cleric as an example again, almost all of the Cleric feats were terrible in M15, but many of them looked decent upon casual observation...like Initiate of the Faith and almost the entire Virtuous and Faithful trees.
Im adding to the post of arazith07 in an other thread that its also the fluidity and the variety of encounters. We have a cleanse encounter now. Its great, really great. Its like the feat cleanse. But as an encounter. Awesome. I was using Cleanse as a heroic feat, it was needed in some situations despite the rage of former dps gf and survivor's wraps. But then we have different encounters that heal, thats all. And 1 mitigation encounter, astral shield. And its horrendous so far to use. I take it, we need practice.
But playing an AC like arazith07 mentioned was all about the pace. It felt quite intense to be able to get those 2 dailies up at same time, the exaltation on dps, and break the spirit empowered. Granted i was not often playing in groups one phasing bosses because most of my friends in NW dont belong to this category,but even with my friends, playing my AC was pleasant. It was intense. It was fun. Sometimes with weaker groups from alliance i even had to heal but it was still fun. I even had to dust off my faithful loadout for some K Team,specially the CR one. Still, it was fluid.
So since Terramak mentionned on stream that we need to insist on forum on the reasons why we are feeling bummed about the changes, im posting again.
I do not complain about losing powershare, about losing recovery,or investment into my character because its part of mmorpgs, i do complain because:
-I heal but it seems like my healing doesn't count towards any action points gain -I want to protect my tank, my melee dps but astral shield is tedious to cast and use (i mean, compare it to circle of power of Oathkeeper, now we talk about fluidity, why not doing something similar for us???) -I want to experience some rythm, some activity in my healing actions but for now, i almost bore myself to death when playing as devout in dungeon. -the divinity gain is somewhat off for a devout playing in group content.
On the other side, playing an Arbiter has some "rythm". Some kind of combos in it. The radiant/burning mechanisms is great. It takes a little to get used to but its great. I feel active, i feel not stuck on the ground...I dont feel thick or heavy. I dont know how to say it better. So promised its the last time im writing about it, still being hopeful for next weeks patches.
Hey Eolee, thanks so much for returning to clarify your points. I'm glad you're enjoying arbiter, but let me try to put aside some of your fears for Devout if I can, since it seems like you really want to play a healer!
There are some issues with AP gain while healing right now, we're looking into them, and I want to make sure you can gain AP as a healer, just as well as any other role.
In regards to Astral Shield vs. Circle of Power, those two are very different spells. Circle of Power is now just a healing buff zone that the Paladin healer wants to stand in, so it actually makes them "less" mobile as well. That being said, for this week—you'll have the option to take a feat instead of the deprecated wide flare, that allows you to move while channeling astral shield. Let me know what you think.
Ultimately, Astral Shield may not be for everyone, but it is quite powerful currently. Internally, some of our testers have been making good use out of it and enjoying it, that being said, a lot of content is just too easy to heal right now, so I can totally see the point about it being a bit boring. We're looking into making adjustments that should make healing more challenging and exciting.
Thanks for your answer. I did try the feat and yes i can see the difference. Now i can see myself in the future making a loadout to spec for it for some fights. And ty for looking into AP gain! And yes i figure that the difficulty of content has some issues. I shouldnt be able to solo dungeons on my arbiter or my OP I believe!
Anyway the fact that you are answering and taking time for that is promoting mod 16 in my eyes too. I think i was done with the thanks but that's an other one right here, thanks for taking the time to read and answer.
It's my pleasure! I look forward to hearing more feedback as further adjustments come down the pipes.
I tried this post once already but it didn't seem to stick, so this will be less wordy, maybe that is for the best.
I'm not sure if I understand "Magnitude", "Added Effect" and "Judgment" correctly in Arbiter. From what I've gathered "Magnitude" is the relative strength of the spell/attack, "Added Effect" is something the spell does that is not heal or damage and "Judgment" is added only if all the pips are full.
So if I am mistaken on any of those this may be moot. But the confusion is why I wanted to give feedback.
1. Can "Magnitude" be defined someplace in tooltip or tutorial? 2. If the above is correct, can "Added Effect" be "Effect"? I kept trying to figure out how -I- was supposed to add the effect. 3. If all the pips are needed for Judgment can that be added in tooltip or tutorial?
I'm enjoying Arbiter so far but wanted to make sure I understood it fully.
Hi Melinden, thanks for the feedback! Your understanding is correct except for one thing: the judgement effect is per stack of judgement. I.e. if the power lists 50 magnitude damage for burning judgement, 6 stacks would increase the magnitude by 300.
As far as defining the terms, we are currently examining where the best place to define them might be, we absolutely do not want to define any of them in the tooltip, as that would inflate the size of every tooltip, and once you know what they mean, you never need to know again, so we'd rather not clutter up the space.
We're confident that the terms are learnable pretty quickly as a new player, because you won't have any preconceptions about the old style of tooltips, and some minor experimentation can get you most of the way there, but we do want to give everyone the resources they need to understand their powers.
My feedback so far, from leveling my DC to level 79:
The class, running a healing spec, has been the most survivable thus far while soloing. Fairly slow at killing mobs, but to be expected from this build. I have reached the limit though for survivability with the level 79 mobs, since they did manage to beat me down. Which brings me to my next point.
The divinity "mechanic" is not good. It gets used up fairly quickly, far too quickly when soloing normal content. Then it takes way to long to recharge by using the tab key. Reminds me a LOT of old everquest 1, where you spent forever recharging in between fights. It's somewhat disappointing to see the devs repeating the sins of everquest, which was not a good game.
At least one of the at-wills needs to replenish divinity. Probably all of them, to be honest, or that one will be the goto, leaving the rest unused. It also needs to replenish fairly quickly, or the party will be in trouble in protracted boss fights.
I'm looking at some of the single target heal spells, and have no clue how you would use them in a chaotic boss fight, unless there's some macro to be provided. ( not a big fan of macroing btw ) In a game like WoW, you can click on the party member in the group list to target a heal spell - you cant do that in this game.
I join the list of people who do not approve of replacing a buff-centric playstyle with pure healing. You're going to lose a lot of players, since a healing role tends to be a lot more stressful on the player.
Thanks for the feedback, and taking the time to test the changes thoroughly on preview. In regards to single target heals, currently the only heal in this style is Intercession, and we're looking to make an improvement to this power that should make t easier to use, so please keep an eye on the patch notes.
In regards to switching from a buff-centric gameplay to healing. We are aware that some players may be frustrated enough by the changes to quit. I do hope that they (and you) will continue to watch the changes on preview, and try them out with an open mind. We're trying not to make healing too stressful for more casual content. That said, if you're really not into healing, I'd also recommend checking out the Arbiter path.
Here is my feed back on the mod 16 cleric after the recent update
Arbiter
I've played a bunch of group content as an arbiter and have been anywhere from 2-4 on the dps scores in the groups i've run with. I'm not sure what the intentions are for DPS cleric but if the idea is to have them compete with top dps paths then a solid AoE spell is what is missing. Something wider range than daunting and maybe with a tad more magnitude otherwise it will just be a sort of fun 2nd/3rd dps role in dungeon runs. I do think you are very close on the divinity regeneration with the cleric as a whole the difference was noticeable enough and it increased the flow of play without the gimmick bastion trick
Devout
like the changes here with the option to move with astral shield i think it helps the cleric shield the tank and move out of the red while still shielding the tank so he can take the red hit with the shield as intended. there are still some feats/passives that dont make sense for these clerics paths however. you have the arbiter with a 20% heal and devout with 1% dmg or something like that. seems like you should reverse those especially after the arbiter bastion nerf. Aside from that i just have some suggestions and ideas that you will take into consideration or hopefully spark a similar idea that can even be incorporated down the road if not for this next mod
- Forgemaster AoE -- give it a feat choice where it hits maybe 3 or 5 targets (similar to live use when empowered) and then some of the magnitude is split into those targets damage so say 900 mag ~> 3 targets at 300 each or something like that. Arbiter needs better AoE!!! lol - Geas/BTS AoE -- so these are single target spells that dont run on divinity and therefore have monster cool downs so when cast on a non boss mob it hits one mob and wont be cast again until the next pack of mobs to me its not worth bringing especially if the mobs are getting melted rather quickly (it hits 1 mob 3 sec later it dies wait 25 to cast again) so instead have it hit 3 mobs or so to justify running it with the long cool downs - At-will -- Im not sure how much this would "break" the arbiter but a feat maybe even at level 80 or something where at-will gives 2 pips per use. It goes back to earlier comments of what are the intentions of DPS cleric? i think this might put them on the next level. Would definitely like to try it for a week just to see and if its too OP then well at least u tried it. Using At will to gain pips to convert then rebuilding those stacks to use Forge can take a long time - Searing Light -- i dont run this but have seen many comments on here saying line format is no good, how about changing it to a cone shape? and trying to see if thats better? - Divinity Restoration -- There has been a lot of talk about divinity resto outside of battle and both sides have good points. However there should be no reason that divinity isnt fully restored at a camp site especially since health is, a camp should "fully restore" a character
saving the best for last
- Divinity regen Armor Kits -- With the nerf of AP gain, removal of regen that is 2 kits you have to remove from professions - well how about replacing one of those with divinity regeneration kits that you can put on your armor or your belt/ring/waist or just your Shirt and Pants (since everfrost is the only thing for them). this way you dont have to mess with the divinity regen formula but players get a chance to bump up their divnity gain a little with some armor kits you could craft at lvl 80. There currently is a Stamina regen kit for tanks so it should only be fair that pally and cleric get a divinity regen kit as well. I think this would satisfy the masses some when it comes to divinity regen
Thanks so much for checking out the changes this week and providing updated feedback. I'm happy when I can quickly get feedback on the changes.
As you mention, a lot of feats have some issues, I'll be looking at them wholesale and reworking a bunch of them, I apologize about the wait in the meantime. In regards to receiving more judgement per at-will use: conflagrate has been updated to generate 2 pips per use, since it's a slower attack. I'm not sure if that change made it in this week, if not, it will be in next week.
With Searing Light, I urge everyone to try using it. To be honest, I may change the word "line" to "path," because I think there's a misperception that the damage area is literally a line, it's more like a rectangle. Widening it is all that would need to be done if it's too hard to land. Actually, having it be a rectangle instead of a cone, is a big advantage, because used skillfully you can hit a lot of enemies with it, including stray ranged enemies that refuse to get stacked up nicely.
In terms of overall DPS, I promise that I will be working to ensure that Arbiter will be in a spot where it can compete for #1 DPS at some point over the next few weeks.
I am excited about the potential and the apparent willingness to make changes to the game. I only hope that you guys will invest to transform PvP into a fun dimension of NWO, as it was once a long time ago. I think this will take a long time to implement though.
Here are my first impressions of PvP with an Arbiter DC, after a few days of trying him out in domination, mainly 1v1 and much less in a 2v2 setup, between the 2nd and 6th of March. I will inevitably have to compare the DC to other classes to benchmark its performance, relative strengths and weaknesses.
The first main point I will make though, and you have mentioned it in your introduction, is that the burst damage of daily powers, but also some encounters, is substantially too high. Examples below.
Bugs The CC-system is also imbalanced and bugged – often I appear to be visually cc’ed, i.e. there is the daze sign above my head and the audio is blurred, but I manage to dodge or cast a power. Some cc powers seem to last forever (5-7 seconds) and some classes can chain cc still.
Another feature(/bug?) that will most certainly impact PvP in a direct and negative way if it goes live is the artifacts that one shot anyone within sight – Oghma one shots multiple enemies for instance; it is not the only one. Sigil of the Devoted heals for 200k HP – is that intended?
Feedback General setup and feedback: The setup I used is Forgemaster’s Flame + Break the Spirit + Bastion of Health with the passive that grants a damage boost and the one the reduces incoming damage. Dailies were Guardian of Faith + X. I never used X though due to the massive burst that GoF is capable of.
Tankiness and reliance on BoH as a DPS class: The A-DC is not tanky. I find troubling is that the A-DC’s tankiness only comes from BoH, which heals for a lot, admittedly. No successful damage mitigation powers that are worth mentioning currently (not even geas) given the extent of the burst. And obviously, BoH does nothing against one shots.
Healing vs (lack of) CC: A-DC can heal, but has no access to meaningful CC encounters. Chains is not useful in PvP...at all. CC provides both offensive capabilities but also substantially increases a class’ tankiness. Perhaps the DC’s lack of any single-target encounter that CC’s should be reviewed; on the other hand I am not persuaded that hard CC AND healing are both simultaneously desirable on a “DPS” class, to avoid making it overpowered.
Judgement and Tab mechanic: Given that the only damaging power I used was FF, I needed to tab every so often to recharge. Two things were frustrating with this: (1) The need “waste” a dodge to get out of tab mode (pray) – it would have been better to be able to get out of pray mode either just by walking or by pushing tab again (this did not seem to work). It is kind of weird also, visually and conceptually, to pray for half a second in mid-combat, before dodging. (2) There is no way of knowing how many judgement pips I need to “pray away” to be able to use FF again, after it goes on cooldown. Every time I dodge around an enemy and try to refill my judgement pips, I know that I can only cast at-wills and use BoH to heal myself; I cannot attack and this is where I am at my most vulnerable. If there was a visual queue that indicated how many judgement pips I needed to sacrifice so as to be able to use FF again, that would minimise time wasted.
A-DC vs CW CW tried both setup with Ice-Knife and the other daily where you can chain encounter powers. CW was very effective at controlling me with EF and Imprisonment. If he had IK ready while I was affected by EF, that was the end of me – one shot me (around 240k HP).
Aside from IK, he did nice damage to me. The way I survived was trying to predict/dodge his cc and use bastion of health to heal up. At the same time, building stacks of fire was essential, as frequently as I could. When my daily was ready, the only way to kill him was to prone him with GoF and follow up with a fully empowered FF. GoF was not enough to one shot CW, but still did very high damage. Without slotting Bastion, I would be dead in seconds though.
I think that A-DC vs CW could potentially be a fun duel, if all the burst damage values are toned down significantly to rule out one-shots. Note that at the time of testing, neither of us had the new weapons and the damage was already as described above, way too high.
A-DC vs GF I fought more than 1 BiS GF 1v1. I was not able to kill them. Anvil was capable of one shotting-me. Mow Down was also capable of 1 (or 2) shotting me. On the odd occasion that I managed to do some severe damage, it was not nearly enough to kill the GF. Also, they seem to have great CC capabilities and prones, which they can chain one after the other to finish you in one rotation – BoH was of little use here. There is no hope of fighting a GF successfully as things stand currently.
A-DC vs OP
I didn’t test this duel very much. On the 3-4 duels I had, the OP one shot me for more than 300k with a daily.
Also what needs to be noted that the biggest contribution so far that an A-DC can make in a 5v5 setup seems to be spamming BoH to heal allies, while dodging in between to avoid being killed. I have tested the Devout DC even less, but its performance is bad given that its ability to be a threat to others is non-existent coupled with its susceptibility to dying rapidly.
I can’t comment yet on duels vs. the other classes since I have only done a couple of duels with each.
Thanks for the PvP focused feedback, I appreciate how time consuming and how much coordination it takes to check out the changes in PvP on preview, and we greatly appreciate it.
We're looking into making adjustments so that bursting people down is less possible with dailies and other high damage powers. We've been testing a decent bit of PvP internally as well, mostly 5v5, and it's been a lot of fun for the most part. In particular, it's hard to get a sense for how healers perform in PvP from 1v1s or 2v2s, they definitely don't have much of a hope of killing an enemy outright in those settings, but they can be absolutely tide-turning in group encounters.
We're working to fix the bugs you pointed out, and I hope you'll keep testing things out in PvP over the coming weeks.
I dont understand all the drama over sunburst all these years from day one. It's obvious players dont like the knockback - it drives other player nuts when dc uses the knockback in groups. A simple change to make it a daze or knockdown or stumble would have solved the issue. It's not a defining feature to a dc, why is this conversation still happening?
EDIT: I will add this - with the amount of cc immune mobs that have been added to dungeons, i would use sunburst to act as a clutch heal when players had the tendency of standing behind me. It also added a great deal of damage and ap generation with the fastest cd => more ap more flamstrike. so much damage for the dc was placed in flamestrike the more often we can cast it the better our dps. Edit 2 - i'm gonna miss the heal - but i like the heavy sun feat so much that if it works as the tooltip says, i will always pick it.
I think there are times where you still want to make use of the knock back, such as PvP as well—but I do hear the feedback. I'm not closing the door on possible changes.
With some feats being brought up for needing powers that people do not normally use, could one of the higher level feats trade the sunburst knockback for something else? Maybe wider range or something?
For teaching people how feats/abilities work…you can always make a tutorial quest. Space out the quests so you do not cover too much in each quest. But make the quest worthwhile to complete, giving xp and worthwhile items, like a rank 10 enchantment, runestone pack or bag. Have monsters or target dummies used to show classes their different powers and make the quest per paragon path. Require the person to switch powers and graphically show them the difference in their use.
@asterdahl you mentioned patch notes in one of your responses. Is there a place these are posted with the weekly changes? that would be immensely helpful
With Searing Light, I urge everyone to try using it. To be honest, I may change the word "line" to "path," because I think there's a misperception that the damage area is literally a line, it's more like a rectangle. Widening it is all that would need to be done if it's too hard to land. Actually, having it be a rectangle instead of a cone, is a big advantage, because used skillfully you can hit a lot of enemies with it, including stray ranged enemies that refuse to get stacked up nicely.
@asterdahl I think the issue is more that powers like Searing Light are simply not hitting targets when they should. I experience this issue with similar line/block/cone AoE powers that originate from the character's position - some enemies are inexplicably missed even if they are well within the power's path of effect. Offhand I've noticed this not only with Searing Light but with Wizard's Cataclysm and Sudden Storm powers.
I haven't had the chance to play on Preview yet today, so I don't know if a recent patch already addressed this, but mentioning just in case.
@asterdahl you mentioned patch notes in one of your responses. Is there a place these are posted with the weekly changes? that would be immensely helpful
I will speak with our production team to make sure the patch notes are actually being surfaced. I apologize that they don't seem to be!
With Searing Light, I urge everyone to try using it. To be honest, I may change the word "line" to "path," because I think there's a misperception that the damage area is literally a line, it's more like a rectangle. Widening it is all that would need to be done if it's too hard to land. Actually, having it be a rectangle instead of a cone, is a big advantage, because used skillfully you can hit a lot of enemies with it, including stray ranged enemies that refuse to get stacked up nicely.
@asterdahl I think the issue is more that powers like Searing Light are simply not hitting targets when they should. I experience this issue with similar line/block/cone AoE powers that originate from the character's position - some enemies are inexplicably missed even if they are well within the power's path of effect. Offhand I've noticed this not only with Searing Light but with Wizard's Cataclysm and Sudden Storm powers.
I haven't had the chance to play on Preview yet today, so I don't know if a recent patch already addressed this, but mentioning just in case.
I dont understand all the drama over sunburst all these years from day one. It's obvious players dont like the knockback - it drives other player nuts when dc uses the knockback in groups. A simple change to make it a daze or knockdown or stumble would have solved the issue. It's not a defining feature to a dc, why is this conversation still happening?
EDIT: I will add this - with the amount of cc immune mobs that have been added to dungeons, i would use sunburst to act as a clutch heal when players had the tendency of standing behind me. It also added a great deal of damage and ap generation with the fastest cd => more ap more flamstrike. so much damage for the dc was placed in flamestrike the more often we can cast it the better our dps. Edit 2 - i'm gonna miss the heal - but i like the heavy sun feat so much that if it works as the tooltip says, i will always pick it.
I think there are times where you still want to make use of the knock back, such as PvP as well—but I do hear the feedback. I'm not closing the door on possible changes.
o.o i'm shocked, this is the most feedback i ever remember getting from testing on preview.
this is a... nice feeling... i'm not used to this here. please. continue.
As far as defining the terms, we are currently examining where the best place to define them might be, we absolutely do not want to define any of them in the tooltip, as that would inflate the size of every tooltip, and once you know what they mean, you never need to know again, so we'd rather not clutter up the space.
We're confident that the terms are learnable pretty quickly as a new player, because you won't have any preconceptions about the old style of tooltips, and some minor experimentation can get you most of the way there, but we do want to give everyone the resources they need to understand their powers.
have you thought about journal entries such as the ones you use to give suggestions on how to fight a boss? 1 section for each class for specifics and a general one for equipment and stat entries etc?
also, there seems to be a banner on the right side of the character sheet where powers are listed. Would that be a good place to have "cue card" info listed ?
@asterdahl you mentioned patch notes in one of your responses. Is there a place these are posted with the weekly changes? that would be immensely helpful
I will speak with our production team to make sure the patch notes are actually being surfaced. I apologize that they don't seem to be!
that would be a great help - it's hard to check things if you dont know they've changed
3
adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited March 2019
Indeed, getting the patch notes together with the Friday patches should make weekend testing more meaningful.
I would also love to see more "known issues" listed - might cut down on people reporting the same issues over and over.
Comments
I'm not sure if I understand "Magnitude", "Added Effect" and "Judgment" correctly in Arbiter. From what I've gathered "Magnitude" is the relative strength of the spell/attack, "Added Effect" is something the spell does that is not heal or damage and "Judgment" is added only if all the pips are full.
So if I am mistaken on any of those this may be moot. But the confusion is why I wanted to give feedback.
1. Can "Magnitude" be defined someplace in tooltip or tutorial?
2. If the above is correct, can "Added Effect" be "Effect"? I kept trying to figure out how -I- was supposed to add the effect.
3. If all the pips are needed for Judgment can that be added in tooltip or tutorial?
I'm enjoying Arbiter so far but wanted to make sure I understood it fully.
(Un)Academic Field Work Foundry Campaign: NWS-DAPZB2CTZ
Added effect is right, it's the extra bits that are added after damage takes place (stuns, roots, buffs/debuffs, etc)
With Judgement, the bonus magnitude is applied with any amount of pips (note that the damage won't change terribly much between each pip, but the effect of all 6 vs none will definitely be notable).
The class, running a healing spec, has been the most survivable thus far while soloing. Fairly slow at killing mobs, but to be expected from this build. I have reached the limit though for survivability with the level 79 mobs, since they did manage to beat me down. Which brings me to my next point.
The divinity "mechanic" is not good. It gets used up fairly quickly, far too quickly when soloing normal content. Then it takes way to long to recharge by using the tab key. Reminds me a LOT of old everquest 1, where you spent forever recharging in between fights. It's somewhat disappointing to see the devs repeating the sins of everquest, which was not a good game.
At least one of the at-wills needs to replenish divinity. Probably all of them, to be honest, or that one will be the goto, leaving the rest unused. It also needs to replenish fairly quickly, or the party will be in trouble in protracted boss fights.
I'm looking at some of the single target heal spells, and have no clue how you would use them in a chaotic boss fight, unless there's some macro to be provided. ( not a big fan of macroing btw ) In a game like WoW, you can click on the party member in the group list to target a heal spell - you cant do that in this game.
I join the list of people who do not approve of replacing a buff-centric playstyle with pure healing. You're going to lose a lot of players, since a healing role tends to be a lot more stressful on the player.
Arbiter
I've played a bunch of group content as an arbiter and have been anywhere from 2-4 on the dps scores in the groups i've run with. I'm not sure what the intentions are for DPS cleric but if the idea is to have them compete with top dps paths then a solid AoE spell is what is missing. Something wider range than daunting and maybe with a tad more magnitude otherwise it will just be a sort of fun 2nd/3rd dps role in dungeon runs. I do think you are very close on the divinity regeneration with the cleric as a whole the difference was noticeable enough and it increased the flow of play without the gimmick bastion trick
Devout
like the changes here with the option to move with astral shield i think it helps the cleric shield the tank and move out of the red while still shielding the tank so he can take the red hit with the shield as intended. there are still some feats/passives that dont make sense for these clerics paths however. you have the arbiter with a 20% heal and devout with 1% dmg or something like that. seems like you should reverse those especially after the arbiter bastion nerf. Aside from that i just have some suggestions and ideas that you will take into consideration or hopefully spark a similar idea that can even be incorporated down the road if not for this next mod
- Forgemaster AoE -- give it a feat choice where it hits maybe 3 or 5 targets (similar to live use when empowered) and then some of the magnitude is split into those targets damage so say 900 mag ~> 3 targets at 300 each or something like that. Arbiter needs better AoE!!! lol
- Geas/BTS AoE -- so these are single target spells that dont run on divinity and therefore have monster cool downs so when cast on a non boss mob it hits one mob and wont be cast again until the next pack of mobs to me its not worth bringing especially if the mobs are getting melted rather quickly (it hits 1 mob 3 sec later it dies wait 25 to cast again) so instead have it hit 3 mobs or so to justify running it with the long cool downs
- At-will -- Im not sure how much this would "break" the arbiter but a feat maybe even at level 80 or something where at-will gives 2 pips per use. It goes back to earlier comments of what are the intentions of DPS cleric? i think this might put them on the next level. Would definitely like to try it for a week just to see and if its too OP then well at least u tried it. Using At will to gain pips to convert then rebuilding those stacks to use Forge can take a long time
- Searing Light -- i dont run this but have seen many comments on here saying line format is no good, how about changing it to a cone shape? and trying to see if thats better?
- Divinity Restoration -- There has been a lot of talk about divinity resto outside of battle and both sides have good points. However there should be no reason that divinity isnt fully restored at a camp site especially since health is, a camp should "fully restore" a character
saving the best for last
- Divinity regen Armor Kits -- With the nerf of AP gain, removal of regen that is 2 kits you have to remove from professions - well how about replacing one of those with divinity regeneration kits that you can put on your armor or your belt/ring/waist or just your Shirt and Pants (since everfrost is the only thing for them). this way you dont have to mess with the divinity regen formula but players get a chance to bump up their divnity gain a little with some armor kits you could craft at lvl 80. There currently is a Stamina regen kit for tanks so it should only be fair that pally and cleric get a divinity regen kit as well. I think this would satisfy the masses some when it comes to divinity regen
YES THE BRAND DEVO IS OURS.
i find devo way better exalt is way better than jugment.
The div cost is way better we are still DC's
Encouters:
- bastion of health make it a burst around
the cleric not a double target.
-makes us more depended on our
positioning
- gives us faster react time
- healing word should have Double the hot
magnitued
Class Features:
-divine lore way to bad.
Deserving of a last feat would be an
orcus set like like bones chained to ur
Divinty
-Hallowed guide.
Make it too a a 5%crit buff for the next
dmg encouter above crit cap
or grant CA for 5sec.
-Deliverance.
Make it to the old mid feat tree capstone
scaled down a bit to have that Battery .
-divine action
-make the div regen encrease by 100% for
5sec.l after daily
-or give 15%shield aftet daily
Feat:
-sacred bastion
make it a 10%chance and add cleansing
light to make it a more flexible feat.
-swift prayer & saviors steps
Add cc immunity
Daylies:
-Anoited armes
Buff up to 5%
remove the duration of half or cut the the
ap cost by 50%
- Guardian of life
Instead if hot make it temp hp for 50% ifs
hot value
Now to arbiter
Encouters:
-searing light
must be a cone at least 30°
-chains of blazing light
Make it an instant.
Make radiant pips encrease cc strength
and durartion by 0,5% per pip
- Break the spirit. Is fine
It shatters make it a small splash with
50%less Effekt at full pips
Class Features:
-Foresight
Make it 25% above Cap maybe reduce
uptime but the gard hitting powets need
serious Rotations
-Terrifying insinght
Ad a 3% debuff at crit for 3 sec
Or CA.
-inquisitors benediction
Make it fill up ur current pips to max after
daylie use
Feats:
-tier 1 feats should be restricted to
spesific at wills.
The encouters tied to it are valid
Where id say switch searing light with
forgemastrs
To make a more aoe or single target
Option
- heavy sun
Should add 2 pips if current charge
And a minor hot for few sec
- Rising light
Instead of div regen do it make it a dmg%
boost above 75% div.
- buring Patch (call it inspirering light)
Make it a reacharge Speed buff to
hollowec ground removing the hot
Dailys
- hammer of faith has no use at all.
Up magnitued 300 per burning pip to
make it calid single target
Maybe mymsuggeszions are beeing op but i like every choice beeing valid in a System that is reduced to its core.
Main dc here hyped about beeing both hesh n dps.
Its a good start but needs work in my opinion.
And i blevieve the other vlasesc should get the same comsideration.
In terms if healets:
Dc should Excel at strsight heal and buff.
Paly should shield and be the aafe Route
Sw should be the highest dps in healer role
Jusz my 2c. Hit like our awesome to get attetion
Ty for teading my Text Wall
Mfg Baus@Soy_The_Sauce (PS4)
#ConsoleLivesMatter
Here are my first impressions of PvP with an Arbiter DC, after a few days of trying him out in domination, mainly 1v1 and much less in a 2v2 setup, between the 2nd and 6th of March. I will inevitably have to compare the DC to other classes to benchmark its performance, relative strengths and weaknesses.
The first main point I will make though, and you have mentioned it in your introduction, is that the burst damage of daily powers, but also some encounters, is substantially too high. Examples below.
Bugs
The CC-system is also imbalanced and bugged – often I appear to be visually cc’ed, i.e. there is the daze sign above my head and the audio is blurred, but I manage to dodge or cast a power. Some cc powers seem to last forever (5-7 seconds) and some classes can chain cc still.
Another feature(/bug?) that will most certainly impact PvP in a direct and negative way if it goes live is the artifacts that one shot anyone within sight – Oghma one shots multiple enemies for instance; it is not the only one. Sigil of the Devoted heals for 200k HP – is that intended?
Feedback
General setup and feedback:
The setup I used is Forgemaster’s Flame + Break the Spirit + Bastion of Health with the passive that grants a damage boost and the one the reduces incoming damage. Dailies were Guardian of Faith + X. I never used X though due to the massive burst that GoF is capable of.
Tankiness and reliance on BoH as a DPS class: The A-DC is not tanky. I find troubling is that the A-DC’s tankiness only comes from BoH, which heals for a lot, admittedly. No successful damage mitigation powers that are worth mentioning currently (not even geas) given the extent of the burst. And obviously, BoH does nothing against one shots.
Healing vs (lack of) CC: A-DC can heal, but has no access to meaningful CC encounters. Chains is not useful in PvP...at all. CC provides both offensive capabilities but also substantially increases a class’ tankiness. Perhaps the DC’s lack of any single-target encounter that CC’s should be reviewed; on the other hand I am not persuaded that hard CC AND healing are both simultaneously desirable on a “DPS” class, to avoid making it overpowered.
Judgement and Tab mechanic: Given that the only damaging power I used was FF, I needed to tab every so often to recharge. Two things were frustrating with this:
(1) The need “waste” a dodge to get out of tab mode (pray) – it would have been better to be able to get out of pray mode either just by walking or by pushing tab again (this did not seem to work). It is kind of weird also, visually and conceptually, to pray for half a second in mid-combat, before dodging.
(2) There is no way of knowing how many judgement pips I need to “pray away” to be able to use FF again, after it goes on cooldown. Every time I dodge around an enemy and try to refill my judgement pips, I know that I can only cast at-wills and use BoH to heal myself; I cannot attack and this is where I am at my most vulnerable. If there was a visual queue that indicated how many judgement pips I needed to sacrifice so as to be able to use FF again, that would minimise time wasted.
A-DC vs CW
CW tried both setup with Ice-Knife and the other daily where you can chain encounter powers. CW was very effective at controlling me with EF and Imprisonment. If he had IK ready while I was affected by EF, that was the end of me – one shot me (around 240k HP).
Aside from IK, he did nice damage to me. The way I survived was trying to predict/dodge his cc and use bastion of health to heal up. At the same time, building stacks of fire was essential, as frequently as I could. When my daily was ready, the only way to kill him was to prone him with GoF and follow up with a fully empowered FF. GoF was not enough to one shot CW, but still did very high damage. Without slotting Bastion, I would be dead in seconds though.
I think that A-DC vs CW could potentially be a fun duel, if all the burst damage values are toned down significantly to rule out one-shots. Note that at the time of testing, neither of us had the new weapons and the damage was already as described above, way too high.
A-DC vs GF
I fought more than 1 BiS GF 1v1. I was not able to kill them. Anvil was capable of one shotting-me. Mow Down was also capable of 1 (or 2) shotting me. On the odd occasion that I managed to do some severe damage, it was not nearly enough to kill the GF. Also, they seem to have great CC capabilities and prones, which they can chain one after the other to finish you in one rotation – BoH was of little use here. There is no hope of fighting a GF successfully as things stand currently.
A-DC vs OP
I didn’t test this duel very much. On the 3-4 duels I had, the OP one shot me for more than 300k with a daily.
Also what needs to be noted that the biggest contribution so far that an A-DC can make in a 5v5 setup seems to be spamming BoH to heal allies, while dodging in between to avoid being killed. I have tested the Devout DC even less, but its performance is bad given that its ability to be a threat to others is non-existent coupled with its susceptibility to dying rapidly.
I can’t comment yet on duels vs. the other classes since I have only done a couple of duels with each.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
No way to fight GF at a current state of game 100%. Instant death with current control, DEFENCE and anvil damage.
CW will most likely kill me with the current state of BoH nurf.
No way to fight a trapper as well. Instant death with current daily spam and dazes.
Rogues are predictable and 50/50
Palas - hitting too hard, predictable 50/50 chances
Barbs - havent tried
Warlocks - havent tried.
In regards to ability scores, please direct that feedback to the thread about ratings. Although your feedback is related to the ratings and how they tie into cleric, I'd say that the core of your feedback is about the ability scores themselves, and Cleric is tangential, so it would be best for Noworries to see your feedback.
Finally: on the topic of equipment, I'll pass your feedback along to our item designer. I'm sorry there's not a lot of exciting options for healer at the moment.
As for scattering light, it's not intended to be displayed as a paragon power, that's a bug, and I apologize. You'll always have access to that power once you unlock it.
The ability to one-shot a class easily in PVP just confirms my observation in PVE.
Some classes dps relies to a big amount on dailies on a single target. My crappy Hunter can buff it's range damage up to 50% dealing 500k crits with lowest stats..
Hopping on my GWF with no gear for 2 min, it is like wasting 30 at wills doing not much vs that dummy, pressing "1", my daily hits for absurdly high numbers out of nowhere.
If you happen to face a Hunter in PVP, I'd be interested about your comment. But from my actual experience about classes, the chance that PVP will be from any interest for some classes is 0.0001%.
A GF can shield same as dps with encounter that deal burst with 1600 mag. Same as OP can heal, shield and deal 200k hits with encounter like Smite, not to talk about the daily etc.
Shielding 80% same as healing same as doing burst that like and the fact movement is an ability only some classes will have access to (not DC), tells a lot about PVP.
No need to be an Orakel to predict, that PVP is gonna be a battleground for tanking classes. Not sure which class will be from relevance on top... maybe a kamikaze-Hunter up on a pillar one shooting classes and rooting them, maybe a wizard from distance if he can cc and Dodge those 200+ hits. Warlock got no Dodge low mobility now, no burst, lowest hitting daily from all classes (1/2 to 1/3 compared to other classes). So it's easy to predict that warlocks same as DC's will not take part on a competitive level.
Only option may be, stack defence, deflect same as power to a max level and head for a healing specc... But I doubt healing abilities will not help at all against oneshots
As Arazith07 also points out, this change was to prevent Arbiter from being able to out heal the healing path, which it absolutely could because it has a very mobile divinity meter, as opposed to a slow pool that can run out. If you're having trouble with divinity on Arbiter, try taking a bit to practice with the Scales of Judgement mechanic and its interaction with Channel Divinity.
The divinity cost of 380 was chosen to prevent Arbiter from casting Bastion of Health more than twice consecutively without channeling. As for the adjustment to the feat, as I mentioned in an earlier post, this feat was meant as a utility choice, it was never intended that Bastion of Health would make up part of a viable DPS focused rotation. Huge amounts of incidental healing as part of a DPS rotation would be highly problematic. That said I'll be re-examining feats more generally soon, that feat may be cut entirely, but I wanted to get a fix in for last week's build so that people wouldn't spend more time with something that was going to change dramatically or be removed.
I do apologize for how disruptive all the change can be as you're trying to re-learn your class. I assure you, we're not making the changes to make it frustrating, but we can't hold back from changing things as quickly as possible on the preview server so we can get more feedback from newer iterations of the class, even if that means big nerfs or changes.
Moreover, it wasn't just that buffs and debuffs were too strong, but other things like shields, temp HP and healing were too strong as well, and more often than not these ultra-strong effects were an afterthought on another power that also healed and did damage, and julienned fries.
In the case of Cleric, since clerics were kings and queens of the world of buffs, it's obviously going to be one of the classes most affected by the changes. I apologize for how shocking and disruptive these changes can feel. I do believe that some Clerics who really wanted to heal will be happy with the changes right away, as they now allow for a healing-focused play style, but I understand that not everyone is going to be happy with the changes, and I apologize. Have you tried playing as an Arbiter cleric at all yet? You may find the gameplay style more enjoyable.
I do hope you'll continue to play on preview over the coming weeks, and give the changes a chance. There are more changes coming, I've heard all of your feedback and I do more changes in store.
Hi Melinden, thanks for the feedback! Your understanding is correct except for one thing: the judgement effect is per stack of judgement. I.e. if the power lists 50 magnitude damage for burning judgement, 6 stacks would increase the magnitude by 300.
As far as defining the terms, we are currently examining where the best place to define them might be, we absolutely do not want to define any of them in the tooltip, as that would inflate the size of every tooltip, and once you know what they mean, you never need to know again, so we'd rather not clutter up the space.
We're confident that the terms are learnable pretty quickly as a new player, because you won't have any preconceptions about the old style of tooltips, and some minor experimentation can get you most of the way there, but we do want to give everyone the resources they need to understand their powers.
In regards to switching from a buff-centric gameplay to healing. We are aware that some players may be frustrated enough by the changes to quit. I do hope that they (and you) will continue to watch the changes on preview, and try them out with an open mind. We're trying not to make healing too stressful for more casual content. That said, if you're really not into healing, I'd also recommend checking out the Arbiter path.
As you mention, a lot of feats have some issues, I'll be looking at them wholesale and reworking a bunch of them, I apologize about the wait in the meantime. In regards to receiving more judgement per at-will use: conflagrate has been updated to generate 2 pips per use, since it's a slower attack. I'm not sure if that change made it in this week, if not, it will be in next week.
With Searing Light, I urge everyone to try using it. To be honest, I may change the word "line" to "path," because I think there's a misperception that the damage area is literally a line, it's more like a rectangle. Widening it is all that would need to be done if it's too hard to land. Actually, having it be a rectangle instead of a cone, is a big advantage, because used skillfully you can hit a lot of enemies with it, including stray ranged enemies that refuse to get stacked up nicely.
In terms of overall DPS, I promise that I will be working to ensure that Arbiter will be in a spot where it can compete for #1 DPS at some point over the next few weeks.
We're looking into making adjustments so that bursting people down is less possible with dailies and other high damage powers. We've been testing a decent bit of PvP internally as well, mostly 5v5, and it's been a lot of fun for the most part. In particular, it's hard to get a sense for how healers perform in PvP from 1v1s or 2v2s, they definitely don't have much of a hope of killing an enemy outright in those settings, but they can be absolutely tide-turning in group encounters.
We're working to fix the bugs you pointed out, and I hope you'll keep testing things out in PvP over the coming weeks.
For teaching people how feats/abilities work…you can always make a tutorial quest. Space out the quests so you do not cover too much in each quest. But make the quest worthwhile to complete, giving xp and worthwhile items, like a rank 10 enchantment, runestone pack or bag. Have monsters or target dummies used to show classes their different powers and make the quest per paragon path. Require the person to switch powers and graphically show them the difference in their use.
I haven't had the chance to play on Preview yet today, so I don't know if a recent patch already addressed this, but mentioning just in case.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
this is a... nice feeling... i'm not used to this here. please. continue.
developer said:
As far as defining the terms, we are currently examining where the best place to define them might be, we absolutely do not want to define any of them in the tooltip, as that would inflate the size of every tooltip, and once you know what they mean, you never need to know again, so we'd rather not clutter up the space.
We're confident that the terms are learnable pretty quickly as a new player, because you won't have any preconceptions about the old style of tooltips, and some minor experimentation can get you most of the way there, but we do want to give everyone the resources they need to understand their powers.
have you thought about journal entries such as the ones you use to give suggestions on how to fight a boss? 1 section for each class for specifics and a general one for equipment and stat entries etc?
also, there seems to be a banner on the right side of the character sheet where powers are listed. Would that be a good place to have "cue card" info listed ?
I would also love to see more "known issues" listed - might cut down on people reporting the same issues over and over.