Boon Revamp

kemnimtarkas

I like the look and feel of the simplified / unified interface. A good QoL update.

No idea if the details are good or bad - we'll see on Friday I guess.

I just hope the make up 'boon points' described in the blog post for existing characters are GENEROUS.

sgtpostal

ya i dunno im on the mix abt this one.... looks good but u cld walk in thinkin that but end up walkin into the deepest circles of hell (coughpiratesofthecaribbeancough)
but like ya said... we'll see friday i guess (if they keep to the preveiw release date)

akemnos

well if they are porting the boons over then by rough count we would have 39 low tier feats and 11 feats in the master boons. This only counts campaign boons as it looks like pvp and guild are separate. I am guessing that not all of the current "master boons" are equivalent so some might fall to the tier ones. With that being said I hope that if you have full boons then you are looking at being just at the start of or just into tier 5 boons. If that is the case than the change shouldn't not be a huge shock, it will just be respending the points.

Although that screenshot they posted worries me as the first master boon is available at 60 points spent.

ilithyn

So... did I get this right, boons are no longer tied to specific campaigns but you can do whatever part of the game you feel like and earn credit to get boons?

froger

I'd be willing to bet each campaign that currently has boons will reward a maximum number of boon points. Meaning you can't farm one particular area for all your boons.

codeteller

The UI and the idea i'm basically okay with. Buuut...
I have some characters who worked on specific campaigns because I wanted the boon at the end of that campaign's boon chain, and if they can't take that boon anymore, that will be frustrating.

ghoulz66

This sounds like a massive robbery of freedom. Not change it for the better. Now you just suffer all campaigns you don't want to do because you need em to unlock the master boons?

Not a @#$%ing chance in hell you guys are forcing me to do SKT.

callidus1986

Explain me 1 thing so all the boons we collected from grinding all the time spend to do campains or worse buy campain buyouts means nothing by my understanding if a new player at mod 16 will have boons till 80 same as veteran player whos already 80 totaly disbalanced ... seriuosly... so no matter what i can play any class and lv up to 80 it will have all boons unlocked ?

wisper2048

callidus1986 said:

Explain me 1 thing so all the boons we collected from grinding all the time spend to do campains or worse buy campain buyouts means nothing by my understanding if a new player at mod 16 will have boons till 80 same as veteran player whos already 80 totaly disbalanced ... seriuosly... so no matter what i can play any class and lv up to 80 it will have all boons unlocked ?

From look of it, you will get some boon points from each campaign. So fresh lv70 will possibly have a few boon points from leveling campaigns (EE, Sharandar, basement investigation), or none at all if you have skipped these campaigns.

ilithyn

callidus1986 said:

Explain me 1 thing so all the boons we collected from grinding all the time spend to do campains or worse buy campain buyouts means nothing by my understanding if a new player at mod 16 will have boons till 80 same as veteran player whos already 80 totaly disbalanced ... seriuosly... so no matter what i can play any class and lv up to 80 it will have all boons unlocked ?

Nope, you still have to do the campaigns. Getting to level 80 has nothing to do with it (apart perhaps from area access). You only get boon points, which can be spend on the boons, by doing the campaigns. Exactly how you get the currency and if there's any difference between areas, remain to be seen.


As a post script can I just say that it looks like the promised simplification of feats and paragon tree has just been nullified by making the whole boon thing infinitely more complicated. They may be simplifying one part of character progress - remains yet to be seen - but have made this part a whole lot more complicated.

adinosii

The boon system has been simplified significantly...perhaps a bit too much, as all DPSers might select the exact same set of boons.

The nice thing though is that specific boons are no longer tied to specific campaigns..the first boon from AI campaign gives you the same benefit as the last one from SKT for example.

ilithyn

adinosii said:

The boon system has been simplified significantly...perhaps a bit too much, as all DPSers might select the exact same set of boons.



The nice thing though is that specific boons are no longer tied to specific campaigns..the first boon from AI campaign gives you the same benefit as the last one from SKT for example.

If this is a simplification then whoever wrote that blog is HAMSTER at explaining and needs to take some writing classes.

rjc9000

ilithyn said:

adinosii said:

The boon system has been simplified significantly...perhaps a bit too much, as all DPSers might select the exact same set of boons.



The nice thing though is that specific boons are no longer tied to specific campaigns..the first boon from AI campaign gives you the same benefit as the last one from SKT for example.

If this is a simplification then whoever wrote that blog is HAMSTER at explaining and needs to take some writing classes.

Whoever writes the tooltips for the game probably wrote that blog.

rafaelda

So looks like now the only way to get more powerful boons is to Run places i've ignored like AI and SKT...

I'm trying to be positive but it get harder with each post...
I hope i'm wrong but from what i got it will be even more weird for new players...
also hope we dont get a boon weekly haul to block our advance...

i was working on SKT on my main getting "Renome" for last boons and Voninblood for the last 2 but now i will wait for preview get updated...

silvershard

Have to say, just from the point of view of conveying the information, I preferred the way the first raft all just stuck to the point, got the information across, and didn't spend more time trying to sound like "Hey, buddies, this is some of the GREAT new groovy stuff we are all going to love in the upcoming major drastic rework of your favourite game!"

That's not the best approach when it's already clear that this upcoming overhaul is causing anxiety.

At some point, someone in the PR department (and my assumption is that there IS one) is going to have an epiphany and realise;
"Hey, you know what might be better than telling people how much they are going to enjoy something that they might end up not enjoying... just telling them the details and letting them wait and see with the actual implementation."


If you announce something by saying "Oh you are going to love this..." when there is a chance that 50% of the people reading it are NOT in fact going to love it, and are at best going to harbour mild indifference, but possibly flat out HATE it, then every time you subsequently begin a message with "Oh, you are going to love this..." ALL of those people will either not believe you, or simply ignore you because they have decided that you are not talking to THEM.

They feel isolated and ignored and that leads to resentment and the belief that every time you say "Oh, you are going to love this..." that you are a lying piece off HAMSTER who has no concern for their opinion. And that you are only interested in the people who buy your particular brand of HAMSTER.

I know that trying to come over like the customers' best pal FEELS like the right thing to do, but it's NOT.

FYI

akemnos

How are people getting confused by this blog? Its pretty clear on what they have done. All campaign boons are now in one section (except for maybe pvp). In that section they are divided by tiers and those tiers are gated behind how many total boon points you have. This is pretty straight forward and clearly stated in the blog post.

Tiers 1-5 are the general boons from each campaign with the Master tier for the capstone boons. Again all straight forward and clearly conveyed in the blog.


As for all dps picking the same boons, that is pretty much what happens now in any case so no change there. Plus there is 101 possible boons from tier 1-4 so we have plenty of room to grow and gain more boons later on.

The only confusion I can see is the Master tier. The screen shot shows next master boon at 60 points. however it is not clear if the free choice can be put into the Master Tier yet (Master tier does not require a point). the row looks like it is active so I would guess yes but you never know. If it is yes than it looks like a Master tier boon every 30 points.

There is really nothing complicated about this scenario unless you think having more choice with each point makes things complicated.

pitmonster

I don't want to seem all stodgy and unable to accept change and such. I like change, if it is change for the better.

I just don't see anything wrong with the old boon system. Each campaign has its own flavor and anytime you have unassigned points, the toolbar glows and you just find the campaign that needs allotment. I mean who found boons to be confusing or needing of simplification?

If I was going to improve anything it would be not lock in the points, just like the Stronghold boons, let me switch them anytime I want as I reequip my toon.

And as others have suggested, I am kinda concerned that if I skip something like SKT (which in fact I have done just that) that somehow that is going to affect my overall boon top tier points, that it forces me to complete it. If that is the case then your revamp completely sucks. Will have to wait and see.

kemnimtarkas

pitmonster#5684 said:

I don't want to seem all stodgy and unable to accept change and such. I like change, if it is change for the better.

I just don't see anything wrong with the old boon system. Each campaign has its own flavor and anytime you have unassigned points, the toolbar glows and you just find the campaign that needs allotment. I mean who found boons to be confusing or needing of simplification?

If I was going to improve anything it would be not lock in the points, just like the Stronghold boons, let me switch them anytime I want as I reequip my toon.

And as others have suggested, I am kinda concerned that if I skip something like SKT (which in fact I have done just that) that somehow that is going to affect my overall boon top tier points, that it forces me to complete it. If that is the case then your revamp completely sucks. Will have to wait and see.

I think one of the drivers behind this simplification isn't explicitly stated in the blog post - many of the boons in the current system directly or indirectly relate to either cancelled or restricted game elements come M16 (lifesteal, recovery, regen). I mean - Endless Consumption is a standard for all my DPS toons.

My guess is that the devs decided that rather than reconfigure all the boon trees with replacement boons, they decided to just start over.

akemnos

I agree that the old method was never really complicated either. I do agree that it was annoying to switch back and forth between tabs when checking things but wasn't not really a big deal. Unfortunately the way the boons are laid out it definitely looks like it wants you to run all the campaigns.

If me and a friends speculation is right though and we get masters are every 30 points than its not a huge deal as the 3rd master tier slot probably wont even be available after mod 16 is done (looking to gain it in future mods). If it is open ended to begin with than that is a good thing as it gives the developers room to grow.



What I find really interesting is there is about 5 feats shown with icons that match current PVP boons. yet there seems to be a separate tab for PVP boons.

rubytrue

pitmonster#5684 said:

I don't want to seem all stodgy and unable to accept change and such. I like change, if it is change for the better.

I just don't see anything wrong with the old boon system. Each campaign has its own flavor and anytime you have unassigned points, the toolbar glows and you just find the campaign that needs allotment. I mean who found boons to be confusing or needing of simplification?

If I was going to improve anything it would be not lock in the points, just like the Stronghold boons, let me switch them anytime I want as I reequip my toon.

And as others have suggested, I am kinda concerned that if I skip something like SKT (which in fact I have done just that) that somehow that is going to affect my overall boon top tier points, that it forces me to complete it. If that is the case then your revamp completely sucks. Will have to wait and see.

You know, you can purchase the campaign completion token off the AH or Zen Market, right?

checkmatein3

The new boon UI looks fine. The points of concern are on the left of the blog, where campaign, stronghold and PvP are listed separately (separate boon tiers maybe?).

The structure of the boons looks fine: one will need to be careful at tier 5 (only 2 of the boons can be selected ever) and master boon (only 1). We can't spread points across more than 2 tier 5 and 1 master boon, so that MIGHT be an issue of likeability. As for the rest, I counted 71 boons (including the 3 stronghold), but not the PvP, which means currently my maxed campaign player would have at least 1 selection of a master boon (which I get at 60?), and the ability to put 70 points somewhere in tiers 1-5, but a full 8 in tier 5 if its good.

It comes down to what is in the boons, and how do they compare to the current boons, and how do they look ahead to the new module and future. too much unknown to like or dislike.

cdnbison

I read the news post as "Complete 1 boon task in campaign, get 1 boon point. (non-repeatable)" Simple as that. Now, though, instead of being given a choice between two boons, you have more choices, with more levels - it *should* allow some flexibility in builds and stat tuning on characters.

And @pitmonster#5684 if you don't want to do a campaign, you don't get the boon points, or you buy it out. Pretty simple.

thefiresidecat

all I'm going to say is if they've nerfed the boon tree into oblivion and made the boons worthless (Which of course is my cynical suspicion) then they're going to lose out on a lot of daily log ins and a lot of people that grind the boons to keep them in the game in slow periods. if they lose out on those daily log ins for in between games they probably lose players because a portion of those people are never coming back. just sayin is all...

nathanjm

Buying out a campaign sends a monetary message -- which speaks far louder than forum posts -- that players are rewarding the developer for making it that a lousy campaign. I don't want them to think that every few modules they can release one so bad that people will be paying for it for years.

greywynd

nathanjm said:

Buying out a campaign sends a monetary message -- which speaks far louder than forum posts -- that players are rewarding the developer for making it that a lousy campaign. I don't want them to think that every few modules they can release one so bad that people will be paying for it for years.

Genie's Gifts...

hustin1

I like the concept, but I'm wondering if all that purple makes it hard to distinguish types of boons. What about using different colors for different kinds of boons? That might make it a lot easier for us.

thefiresidecat

ghoulz66 said:

This sounds like a massive robbery of freedom. Not change it for the better. Now you just suffer all campaigns you don't want to do because you need em to unlock the master boons?

Not a @#$%ing chance in hell you guys are forcing me to do SKT.

it really depends on if there are enough boons on the final tier actually worth having. I suspect there aren't. I think they wanted to scratch boons entirely because of how much it gated the new people coming to the game (and from their current advertising they really need to accomplish that) but if they got rid of boons entirely all of the player base would be outraged. I don't see any sign of it being tied to Il anymore either.
ofc, I am not a tester. I could be wrong. but... I suspect most of mod 16 is going to look this way. they need to give us a teaser of something we will actually like soon imo. I wish they'd have kept it like it is and just automatically award new people coming in the legacy campaign tokens you can buy once you've completed a campaign to make it easier to do.

ragequittingdc

seems like a way to tackle the lifesteal and recovery change on the dev side more than anything, and maybe a slight nerf. boon trees were already simplified with the changes to respec so you didn't have to go over every single campaign each time if you had a small change to make, weren't they?

mentinmindmaker

rafaelda said:

So looks like now the only way to get more powerful boons is to Run places i've ignored like AI and SKT...

I'm trying to be positive but it get harder with each post...
I hope i'm wrong but from what i got it will be even more weird for new players...
also hope we dont get a boon weekly haul to block our advance...

i was working on SKT on my main getting "Renome" for last boons and Voninblood for the last 2 but now i will wait for preview get updated...

Requiring that you do ALL campaigns to reach the highest level of power seems fair to me.

liadan1984

hustin1 said:

I like the concept, but I'm wondering if all that purple makes it hard to distinguish types of boons. What about using different colors for different kinds of boons? That might make it a lot easier for us.

IMO, this is a great idea. Even if they keep the lil logo's purple, and change the colour of the box outline.

silvershard

The new system has 43 boons in total.
The current system has about 122.
So at face value we are "losing a lot of choice".
BUT... many of those 122 duplicate the same effect as many others. (How many of the standard campaign boons currently offer a flat +XX Power, or Recovery, or Crit, or... you get the idea?)

I'm too lazy to add up all the duplicates across all the Boons, but it would definitely drop the number of "Unique" boons considerably.
What the new system will allow you to do is work through the Boons in the order that you want, rather than taking "the lesser of two evils" on a campaign boon tree because neither of the two offered options are useful and you are really after the boon that comes two or three slots down the line.

So, (if I'm understanding it correctly,) if that first 0/5 Boon on the bottom left of the new Boon Tree is +XX Power/level, you can stack that for your first five boon points. You don't HAVE to work your way up to it and choose between something like +XX Outgoing Healing or +XX AoE Resist, (or some HAMSTER about Control vs Demons) if none of those takes your fancy and what you want is the +XX Power that comes later in the Campaign Boon Tree you are working on.

Of course that bottom left one probably ISNT +XX Power, (If it IS, I'm buying a lotto ticket when the Preview lands...) but my point stands that you get a better choice as you progress than you ever did under the old system.