Changes. Changes? Changes!

leonidrex

We had a little talk about mod 15. with exchanging thoughts and so on. We disgussed pvp more then pve since it was more affected by the most recent mod, I had alot of time to try things out, and think them over and here are my thoughts.

- Divinity charges WAY too slow without judgment/bulwark options. There are fights where for over 1minute i cant use my tab, and I invested my feats into more divinity gain. Both bulwark and justice provides more Calls then needed, while light tree struggles to dish out 1 per minute.
- // suggest to slightly increase Divinity gain as a base, and heavy buff for Impassioned Pleas as div gain. ( some powers bond,avenger give good chunk so those would be left unbuffed ). + change to judgment ( more consisten, way less ) so it gives less on average. (means meta option is weaker but weaker options get stronger and more consistent. ) I would also like to see OP start with 2 stacks in combat instead of 3. at least in pvp.
- Some of our powers deal pathetic or no ammounts of damage, i would like to see buffs to atwill damage, normalise their dps so we have better variety. Buff BL damage, Make bane, vow deal small ammounts of damage.
// why ? im not asking for huge buffs, but it makes me cringe when i land a critical strike with an atwill, and it deals 1/6 of the AoC dmg, fully charged burning light for example deals as much dmg as Atwill, that deals bad damage in the first place. I dont want to see huge out of the world buffs, but those changes would make paladin feel more alive, and having good apm, proper rotation and squeezing extra hits would feel more rewarding.
- Remove Banishment and give us an actual ability, please.

Anyone feels like sharing their thoughts? please feel free to agree or disagree I actually wanna hear how people invision their paladins, and what they wish them to be.

majorcharvenak

Hmmm...I don't mind many of your suggestions @leonidrex if they're focused toward PvP. I really don't have any stake in the PvP fight as I only do PvP if my roleplaying storyline calls for it. It would be interesting to see how they could incorporate these suggestions without breaking the PvE side as it may impact our role as a support class.

While I wouldn't mind to a boost to the base at-will damage, I doubt the devs would entertain that idea after they gave us a boost at the start of Mod 15.

I'm a little confused on making bane and vow deal small amounts of damage. Are you talking about the buff/debuff respectively they provide or actual numbers? When taken into the context of a request to increase our overall base damage of our at-wills and encounters, reducing their buff/debuff percentages makes sense (at least given the way you worded that suggestion) as they don't deal damage on their own.

I've always seen Banishment as dorked-up Hold Person/Monster spell that would be better utilized as a control aspect IF you could either damage the individual held (but cutting the time held in half if you do so) or applying a DR debuff to them at the end of the confinement period. I agree though, without some changes to that power, its useless and should be reworked or replaced. My two coppers.

leonidrex

majorcharvenak said:

Hmmm...I don't mind many of your suggestions @leonidrex if they're focused toward PvP. I really don't have any stake in the PvP fight as I only do PvP if my roleplaying storyline calls for it. It would be interesting to see how they could incorporate these suggestions without breaking the PvE side as it may impact our role as a support class.

While I wouldn't mind to a boost to the base at-will damage, I doubt the devs would entertain that idea after they gave us a boost at the start of Mod 15.

I'm a little confused on making bane and vow deal small amounts of damage. Are you talking about the buff/debuff respectively they provide or actual numbers? When taken into the context of a request to increase our overall base damage of our at-wills and encounters, reducing their buff/debuff percentages makes sense (at least given the way you worded that suggestion) as they don't deal damage on their own.

I've always seen Banishment as dorked-up Hold Person/Monster spell that would be better utilized as a control aspect IF you could either damage the individual held (but cutting the time held in half if you do so) or applying a DR debuff to them at the end of the confinement period. I agree though, without some changes to that power, its useless and should be reworked or replaced. My two coppers.

yep, i wanted VoW and bane as powers to deal some ammounts of damage, not much. but something that can add up, so you get rewarded for casting as fast as character allows, right now we only deal damage with AoC preety much.
As for banishment, its nonexistent, they could make it as an ability that you have constantly cast to hold enemy, and make him take extra damage for it prehaps ? risk/reward against bosses since you cant defend yourself, and if it takes TW spot, it could be really skill expressive to time it with others combo. Only thing to worry would be PvP.

Oh and i wish there was Radiant Weapon buff somewhere in Paladins kit, for thematic reasons mostly.

karvare

I have to ask, does impassioned pleas work? I remember a post, I believe by Sharpedge, that it did not. Does the new Bulwark feat work? I started as bulwark but skipped the original, as it would rarely proc. I would like it if the other trees just had a mechanic like justice for divinity regeneration.

Banishment I could do without, as it removes an attacker and thereby a damage source/power boost. I prefer to be encased in mobs all hitting away and boosting the team.

PvP, no dog in the fight as long as it stays PvP.

At wills, if binding oath actually forced a mob to attack you, instead of a strong suggestion, then it might have some uses. Radiant and Shielding have been my choice since the beginning.

I really feel I do a good amount of damage, tho I am spec'ed justice light now. If they would make bulwark a build for party survival through team damage reduction/redirection and light a more party healing/buffer build, leaving justice as a more damage dealing build I would be happy to try new builds.

leonidrex

karvare said:

I have to ask, does impassioned pleas work? I remember a post, I believe by Sharpedge, that it did not. Does the new Bulwark feat work? I started as bulwark but skipped the original, as it would rarely proc. I would like it if the other trees just had a mechanic like justice for divinity regeneration.

Banishment I could do without, as it removes an attacker and thereby a damage source/power boost. I prefer to be encased in mobs all hitting away and boosting the team.

PvP, no dog in the fight as long as it stays PvP.

At wills, if binding oath actually forced a mob to attack you, instead of a strong suggestion, then it might have some uses. Radiant and Shielding have been my choice since the beginning.

I really feel I do a good amount of damage, tho I am spec'ed justice light now. If they would make bulwark a build for party survival through team damage reduction/redirection and light a more party healing/buffer build, leaving justice as a more damage dealing build I would be happy to try new builds.

yes, currently as it is justice is hands down the best for pve, for pvp bulwark and light are worth thinking about. in Bulwark there is feat that gives divination per/sec, its REALLY good. the bad part is that base divination gain is UTERLY HORRIBLE. use all encounters atwill couple of times and you get 1/3 . . . . and light tree is stuck without a way to generate it.

leonidrex

oh and it might not work honestly, i remember specing into it and feeling no difference whatsoever, but i did let it stay simply becouse light tree needs all div gain it can get and more.

majorcharvenak

leonidrex said:

oh and it might not work honestly, i remember specing into it and feeling no difference whatsoever, but i did let it stay simply becouse light tree needs all div gain it can get and more.

I curious if you're wanting more gain from call because you need the heals from spamming it. Are you doing this as a light specced Devo? Now this is pure speculation on my part, but I think the justice and bulwark trees were given increased methods of divinity gain because a Light specced pally already overheals (even more than a justice/Bulwark Devo) utilizing the multiple encounters and at-wills with a healing component. That Divine call also shoots out a heal (again, I suspect) was an afterthought given how it works when used by a Prot. Justice's use for it would be to proc Vengeful Judge for the damage boost and the power reacharge. For bulwark, I suspect its for Sanctify, Vigilance and Holy Barrier procs. Now with Light, Divine call useage is tied to Redemption but at that point, you or your party should be topped off by everything else Light gives - if healing is that much of a factor. I dunno, maybe they could change Deific Intervention to increase call gain instead of just healing and protecting everyone when you die. I'd be very interested if anyone has any ground truth as to why Light doesn't have a means to increase divinity gain outside of impassioned pleas, aside from my own speculation.

leonidrex

majorcharvenak said:

leonidrex said:

oh and it might not work honestly, i remember specing into it and feeling no difference whatsoever, but i did let it stay simply becouse light tree needs all div gain it can get and more.

I curious if you're wanting more gain from call because you need the heals from spamming it. Are you doing this as a light specced Devo? Now this is pure speculation on my part, but I think the justice and bulwark trees were given increased methods of divinity gain because a Light specced pally already overheals (even more than a justice/Bulwark Devo) utilizing the multiple encounters and at-wills with a healing component. That Divine call also shoots out a heal (again, I suspect) was an afterthought given how it works when used by a Prot. Justice's use for it would be to proc Vengeful Judge for the damage boost and the power reacharge. For bulwark, I suspect its for Sanctify, Vigilance and Holy Barrier procs. Now with Light, Divine call useage is tied to Redemption but at that point, you or your party should be topped off by everything else Light gives - if healing is that much of a factor. I dunno, maybe they could change Deific Intervention to increase call gain instead of just healing and protecting everyone when you die. I'd be very interested if anyone has any ground truth as to why Light doesn't have a means to increase divinity gain outside of impassioned pleas, aside from my own speculation.

what i ment is that as Justice, you can easly keep up 100% uptine on capstone buff, as bulwark you can tab whenever you feel like you need the shield. Meanwhile as light you are stuck at 3 stacks on keystone, unable to proc any. Struggle for over 1min to get 1 divination call, use it. after 10s you are back at 3 stacks of keystone and 0 divination waiting another 1minute to be able to use it. And god forbid you are using your shield and not spam abilities, then you wont get to use it at all.

majorcharvenak

leonidrex said:

majorcharvenak said:

leonidrex said:

oh and it might not work honestly, i remember specing into it and feeling no difference whatsoever, but i did let it stay simply becouse light tree needs all div gain it can get and more.

I curious if you're wanting more gain from call because you need the heals from spamming it. Are you doing this as a light specced Devo? Now this is pure speculation on my part, but I think the justice and bulwark trees were given increased methods of divinity gain because a Light specced pally already overheals (even more than a justice/Bulwark Devo) utilizing the multiple encounters and at-wills with a healing component. That Divine call also shoots out a heal (again, I suspect) was an afterthought given how it works when used by a Prot. Justice's use for it would be to proc Vengeful Judge for the damage boost and the power reacharge. For bulwark, I suspect its for Sanctify, Vigilance and Holy Barrier procs. Now with Light, Divine call useage is tied to Redemption but at that point, you or your party should be topped off by everything else Light gives - if healing is that much of a factor. I dunno, maybe they could change Deific Intervention to increase call gain instead of just healing and protecting everyone when you die. I'd be very interested if anyone has any ground truth as to why Light doesn't have a means to increase divinity gain outside of impassioned pleas, aside from my own speculation.

what i ment is that as Justice, you can easly keep up 100% uptine on capstone buff, as bulwark you can tab whenever you feel like you need the shield. Meanwhile as light you are stuck at 3 stacks on keystone, unable to proc any. Struggle for over 1min to get 1 divination call, use it. after 10s you are back at 3 stacks of keystone and 0 divination waiting another 1minute to be able to use it. And god forbid you are using your shield and not spam abilities, then you wont get to use it at all.

Then perhaps the devs should rework Deific Intervention and allow it to boost divine call. Either at a flat rate or each time you a heal an ally. The current feat is just...well, bad.