Pls let us choose our role on random queue

majorcharvenak

wintersmoke said:

majorcharvenak said:

I think @wintersmoke was being tongue in cheek, @silverkelt. I could be wrong though. My point, in my response, was that certain classes tend to be better in specific roles than other ones. Now with respect to the use guild/alliance channels, you know as well as I do that there are multiple reasons why that might not always be an option so...just have to pop in a random and hope for the best.

why yeth, my tongue wath tucked firmly in my cheek. Thank you for notithing. Unfortunately, I theem to have bitten mythelf. Ouchieth. THorry…. ahem, sorry about that. I was just thinking that an awful lot of conversations about content seem to boil down to two points of view. Younger (newer), more casual, or weaker players tend to complain about not having access to content, and being unable to make a meaningful contribution. Older, grindier, and stronger players tend to complain about having to carry a bunch of skroobs through easy, boring content over & over & why can't we gat a little challenge around here, anywayth. Anyways. It seems to me that if we start building content with the goal being, from the very beginning, that some players will not be able to complete it without a "carry", then the shelf life of that content will expire even faster than it normally does.

Sorry about that. So...does that mean no cookie?

checkmatein3

I agree with the OPs post on allowing customizations of how a player identifies for the CURRENT random queue system since it requires the 3 + 1 + 1 for the AD bonuses. In a discussion on keeping the RQ as is, my recommendation is customization of identification. I did not say HOW to do this (by some kind of loadout/power/stat/paragon choice/checkbox), but it does come with difficulties in the current RQ system. For example, it is a perfectly legitimate concern to think that some players would queue as whatever role currently gives the bonus AD to get it, and then hope that the group can finish (the easiest pathway to the 100k AD max will always be chosen). Moreover, it is also a concern that continuously changing role identification could be used as a troll weapon in RQ. These concerns can be balanced or woven into the current RQ system (which imo is highly imperfect).

The current RQ system (which rolled out in mod 9 and for which I was an alpha tester) still lacks most of the freedom that the game had in original game design. However, during that time, only a handful of the dungeons were being run based on the rewards, and more important than 3 + 1 + 1 was finishing the dungeon during the bonus AD time. That entire cyclical AD bonus, rotating to different kind of content, disappeared. The current RQ system is much more restrictive and, dare I say, lacks randomization in placement. Moreover, the grouping of the queue system into RQ, RIQ, RAQ, and REQ has not led to a willingness to run anything except premade 3 + 1 + 1 parties for RAQ and REQ. So, the current mod 9 introduced queue system tried to achieve randomization of content and inclusion of newer players into all queues, but the behavior of the community (in light of grind necessity) and the failure of the queue to randomize content leads one to the conclusion that the current RQ is a complete failure.

On the one hand, players do not want to be forced into content that is not really enjoyable to play as a random event. Whether due to known bugs in the dungeon (CR, mSP), perceived difficulty (FBI), desired META (CODG). I mean consider that when I run with my friends in my guild or alliance, because we have been together for some time, they know the movements I make and my playstyle. And I know theirs. The 'random' dungeon is not random at all. And why should it be the case that random party makeup is the desire for dungeons that should have a basis for ADVANCED or EXPERT play, which includes how the players play together.

On the other hand, newer players who think themselves ready for the top content in the current queue system would rely on their guild, alliance, friends list, or the lfg or any other specialized channel that they might be excluded from. Frustration to run the content, except with other people they don't know usually results in frustrated instance quits and the like. It all seems like a huge waste of time, and this is not including any kind of judgment against build or TIL preparedness. It is just the experience. But, in no way do new players want a repeat of the mod 5 Tiamat queue, where secret TIL channels would pop up to whisper the queue time so that lower TIL players would not be grouped together. (Of course, players were completely unaware of this mechanism because original preview testing permitted forming parties for Tiamat, and the player base let the devs have it badly regarding this queue structure).

So, how can the game include newer players in lower guilds when the whole tiered system requires the opposite? And how can the freedom of queueing include real builds and roles that will NOT be abused by trolls or greedy queue hounds for max AD?

Answers have varied with regards to these two questions, from restricting TIL, raising it, etc. Devs have attempted to answer the first question by placing AD rewards in random, not private, and by adding bonuses for new players. Nothing has worked, yet.

pitmonster

The problem with some of these roles are even if the player meets the toon requirements for, say, a healer, they might not still be running a healer or the powers slotted for a healer. Running a SW as a healer also requires the player to run a tight build to make sure they are dishing out heals with damage.

I actually don't have much criticism for the devs on this one, they are tying to ensure a group makes it through a run as best as they can while the players are working against them.

callumf

pitmonster#5684 said:

The problem with some of these roles are even if the player meets the toon requirements for, say, a healer, they might not still be running a healer or the powers slotted for a healer. Running a SW as a healer also requires the player to run a tight build to make sure they are dishing out heals with damage.

I actually don't have much criticism for the devs on this one, they are tying to ensure a group makes it through a run as best as they can while the players are working against them.

Agreed on that one.

wintersmoke

@majorcharvenak said:

wintersmoke said:

majorcharvenak said:

I think @wintersmoke was being tongue in cheek, @silverkelt. I could be wrong though. My point, in my response, was that certain classes tend to be better in specific roles than other ones. Now with respect to the use guild/alliance channels, you know as well as I do that there are multiple reasons why that might not always be an option so...just have to pop in a random and hope for the best.

why yeth, my tongue wath tucked firmly in my cheek. Thank you for notithing. Unfortunately, I theem to have bitten mythelf. Ouchieth. THorry…. ahem, sorry about that. I was just thinking that an awful lot of conversations about content seem to boil down to two points of view. Younger (newer), more casual, or weaker players tend to complain about not having access to content, and being unable to make a meaningful contribution. Older, grindier, and stronger players tend to complain about having to carry a bunch of skroobs through easy, boring content over & over & why can't we gat a little challenge around here, anywayth. Anyways. It seems to me that if we start building content with the goal being, from the very beginning, that some players will not be able to complete it without a "carry", then the shelf life of that content will expire even faster than it normally does.

Sorry about that. So...does that mean no cookie?

The doctor thayth I thould avoid cookieth until the thticheth come out... but you may have a

majorcharvenak

wintersmoke said:

@majorcharvenak said:

wintersmoke said:

majorcharvenak said:

I think @wintersmoke was being tongue in cheek, @silverkelt. I could be wrong though. My point, in my response, was that certain classes tend to be better in specific roles than other ones. Now with respect to the use guild/alliance channels, you know as well as I do that there are multiple reasons why that might not always be an option so...just have to pop in a random and hope for the best.

why yeth, my tongue wath tucked firmly in my cheek. Thank you for notithing. Unfortunately, I theem to have bitten mythelf. Ouchieth. THorry…. ahem, sorry about that. I was just thinking that an awful lot of conversations about content seem to boil down to two points of view. Younger (newer), more casual, or weaker players tend to complain about not having access to content, and being unable to make a meaningful contribution. Older, grindier, and stronger players tend to complain about having to carry a bunch of skroobs through easy, boring content over & over & why can't we gat a little challenge around here, anywayth. Anyways. It seems to me that if we start building content with the goal being, from the very beginning, that some players will not be able to complete it without a "carry", then the shelf life of that content will expire even faster than it normally does.

Sorry about that. So...does that mean no cookie?

The doctor thayth I thould avoid cookieth until the thticheth come out... but you may have a

THANK YOU!

majorcharvenak

Well, If the devs DO allow folks to choose their role in the queues, I hope they add some additional iconography somewhere on the player portrait. It would be nice if folks could see a small shield (for the tank), sword (DPS) or cross (heals) next to the pics so they could see who is on tap for what. My two coppers.

minotaur2857

pitmonster#5684 said:

The problem with some of these roles are even if the player meets the toon requirements for, say, a healer, they might not still be running a healer or the powers slotted for a healer. Running a SW as a healer also requires the player to run a tight build to make sure they are dishing out heals with damage.

I actually don't have much criticism for the devs on this one, they are tying to ensure a group makes it through a run as best as they can while the players are working against them.

Except they're not making sure groups get through, many people spec their GF for DPS causing runs that fail because they can't tank a wet paper bag, let them queue as DPS.