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We should have more open pvp modules like Icewind Dale

kozi001kozi001 Posts: 860Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
edited January 2019 in Player Feedback (PC)
With all due respect.
We should have more open pvp modules. Like mod3: Icewind Dale was.
Greatest fun of mmo is killing your comrades and others whose are roughly on the same (low-level) than us.
The game is missing same great opportunity here.

Left friends from other games usually reporting to me how fun is killing others in open pvp areas.
-And I say What? You haven't even played domination with me at all here.
-Yeah but so funny to kill others. Especially players who thinks I am an easy target and attack me.

Nowadays lots of us has absolutely no motivation queueing pvp domination. Not really fun to killed by veteran pvp players from a single rotation.
The game is making so much effort for easy content for pve players(short easy dungeons,skirmishes, neverembers recruitment)
Why not easy but still fun challenge for pvp in the open?

I remember Icewind dale was fun. We had to band together with others to do dailies unless stealthy TRs would have killed us.
Still there are always some guys in IWD whose are killing each other.

I suggest every 3th or 4th module should be pvp module where you have to go do dailies in open pvp areas.

Shall I say names? Lots of mmo has succesfull open pvp(lineage, eso, bdo, wow etc).
Post edited by kozi001 on
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Comments

  • kozi001kozi001 Posts: 860Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited January 2019

    No thank you. Nothing more annoying than having to complete a quest in the IWD PVP zone just to have some BiS PVP nitwit come up behind you and one-shot you.

    mod3 wasn't like that.
    Real good pvp players were playing domination. These type of pvp players could be handled.

    In fact I would go even further and suggest ripping PVP out of the game altogether. The PVP mech seeps into the PVE class balance and such and it makes PVE, which 95% of the player base play, suck more.

    There are a huge number of games that are specifically coded for PVP and only PVP. Trying to bolt-on PVP into a MMO almost always screws it up.

    Every Mmo has pvp. Lots of Mmo has pvp as endgame content. Lots of Mmo has vast open pvp areas. Even the best Pve content is repeatable and becoming boring in time.
    If there is no pvp content in the game you will lose a significant amount of players.

    Open pvp could be coded to be unmandatory of course.
    Post edited by kozi001 on
  • autumnwitchautumnwitch Posts: 578Member Arc User
    kozi001 said:

    No thank you. Nothing more annoying than having to complete a quest in the IWD PVP zone just to have some BiS PVP nitwit come up behind you and one-shot you.

    mod3 wasn't like that.
    Real good pvp players were playing domination. These type of pvp players could be handled.

    In fact I would go even further and suggest ripping PVP out of the game altogether. The PVP mech seeps into the PVE class balance and such and it makes PVE, which 95% of the player base play, suck more.

    There are a huge number of games that are specifically coded for PVP and only PVP. Trying to bolt-on PVP into a MMO almost always screws it up.

    Every Mmo has pvp. Lots of Mmo has pvp as endgame content. Lots of Mmo has vast open pvp areas. The best Pve content is repeatable in time.
    If there is no pvp content in the game you will lose a significant amount of players.

    Pvp could be coded unmandatory of course.
    Maybe they would lose players but I'd rather see them go then they can spend the resources they spend on PVP upkeep/dev on the rest of game and bring in new players and make existing content better.
    Boudica's Sisters - A Guild For Introverts
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 1,183Member Arc User
    +1 Yes to this idea completely.

    The fact that pvp is unbalanced is irrelevant when you get large[ish] groups of players pvping or ganking or zerging or fighting in general.

    I have a fair amount of experience with non-consensual open world pvp in other MMO games and if you make it worthwhile, people will play it. I have said it before give players GMOPs+ for taking an active part... make it worthwhile and the players will play it.

    TBH it would make a change from finding Jim's lost documents in that HAMSTER basement iver and over again ;)
  • stormcrow#9329 stormcrow Posts: 2Member Arc User

    +1 Yes to this idea completely.

    The fact that pvp is unbalanced is irrelevant when you get large[ish] groups of players pvping or ganking or zerging or fighting in general.

    I have a fair amount of experience with non-consensual open world pvp in other MMO games and if you make it worthwhile, people will play it. I have said it before give players GMOPs+ for taking an active part... make it worthwhile and the players will play it.

    TBH it would make a change from finding Jim's lost documents in that HAMSTER basement iver and over again ;)

    Non-consensual? Nope!
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,586Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    +1 we need more pvp content, and more ways of getting people into it.

    It's fun. And no-one is scared of pve monsters, but other players... some of them are scary. Even me ☺.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • eliasar#2396 eliasar Posts: 45Member Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Problem with pvp isnt repetetiveness, its absolutely horrible absence of any worthwhile rewards. So, for someone sadly for someone luckily so called "real endgame" is as dead as castle bugenloft in req. Nobody is interested to play it as there is nothing to be interested for and whats more, if you try to play it local pvp community will just recognize you as pure pve person and refuse to play at all and if they do, there is nothing better to do than be toxic on forums and plan another disaster that is just worsening situation. Welcome to neverwinter "endgame".
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,445Member Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    +1 we need more pvp content, and more ways of getting people into it.

    It's fun. And no-one is scared of pve monsters, but other players... some of them are scary. Even me ☺.

    The monsters are evil... you're just mean!
  • polaris1986polaris1986 Posts: 307Member Arc User
    edited January 2019
    I think it will be good if you'll have level reduced to minimum in PVPzone.

    and something alike old Gauntlgrym between PVP and PVE missions.
    DC/SW ~15
    new mount A-a-a-r-r-h-h-H !!


  • heraldfayez#8520 heraldfayez Posts: 227Member Arc User
    to be honest we don't need a specifiec area for pvp but rather make an option to have a PVP match anyhere in the game from request tab when you rpess F on someone jsut add this option and it will be super fun imagine having PVP in dread ring or sharandar or any other map it opens up a lot of possibility for future games like teams vs teams and you don't even need to make maps or anything for it
    just single option to request a PVP match instead of making anyone who enters a zone illegible to fight against you because some people abuse this if other person is AFK so always having a respance is healthier that means if they accept they should be responsible if they die
  • polaris1986polaris1986 Posts: 307Member Arc User
    request tab when you rpess F on someone jsut add this option


    yes, press F to fight or pay 5 gold)) true banditry))

    without interests noone will play, especially if you'll know who will win.
    DC/SW ~15
    new mount A-a-a-r-r-h-h-H !!


  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,586Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited January 2019
    Let's say there was an area, full pvp zone, which did require all toons to visit for whatever objective. What would the problems be..?

    There are always trolls and gankers. So toons should be able to bring protection, either other players/guildies or hire npc goons etc. Or perhaps a player "hunts" option maybe. Allowing a group of lower ILs to try and bring down a serial pvp troll. Something like the wanted poster system, I dunno. Players/guilds post the handle of the troll on a noticeboard like the one the harpers used to use for foundry missions, and other vigilante toons would come along and take them out.

    There's lots of ways to make this interesting.

    Basically, pve purists can make a living, AD-wise, doing pve stuff. Crafters can make a living crafting. Pvp purists however, can't make a living with pvp, which has always been unfair.

    jonkoca said:

    +1 we need more pvp content, and more ways of getting people into it.

    It's fun. And no-one is scared of pve monsters, but other players... some of them are scary. Even me ☺.

    The monsters are evil... you're just mean!
    I'm not mean, just erm, chaotically inclined.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,445Member Arc User

    request tab when you rpess F on someone jsut add this option


    yes, press F to fight or pay 5 gold)) true banditry))

    without interests noone will play, especially if you'll know who will win.
    AHhhhhh! Siamese kittens! Ahhhhh! Run!
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    Let's say there was an area, full pvp zone, which did require all toons to visit for whatever objective. What would the problems be..?

    There are always trolls and gankers. So toons should be able to bring protection, either other players/guildies or hire npc goons etc. Or perhaps a player "hunts" option maybe. Allowing a group of lower ILs to try and bring down a serial pvp troll. Something like the wanted poster system, I dunno. Players/guilds post the handle of the troll on a noticeboard like the one the harpers used to use for foundry missions, and other vigilante toons would come along and take them out.

    There's lots of ways to make this interesting.

    Basically, pve purists can make a living, AD-wise, doing pve stuff. Crafters can make a living crafting. Pvp purists however, can't make a living with pvp, which has always been unfair.

    Sorry but this sound completely HAMSTER nauseous. If you want something like this, find a PUG, there are plenty out there.

  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,586Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    Why don't you like pvp..?

    Thought I'd ask, rather than go off on a rant :).
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 782Member Arc User
    The last thing I want when I'm doing my dailies is some knucklehead troll spamming me with challenges or worse - getting ambushed by their trollkin (guildies) just because they're bored. No thanks. Keep the gladiators in the arenas until they want to come out and slay monsters like the rest of us. They have the two zones up in IWD, the PvP queues and stronghold PvP. If the devs give them another zone within future content, I'm all for that too. I'm out though if Cryptic ever gets the idea to incorporate "licensed banditry" within the larger game.
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  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    edited January 2019

    The last thing I want when I'm doing my dailies is some knucklehead troll spamming me with challenges or worse - getting ambushed by their trollkin (guildies) just because they're bored. No thanks. Keep the gladiators in the arenas until they want to come out and slay monsters like the rest of us. They have the two zones up in IWD, the PvP queues and stronghold PvP. If the devs give them another zone within future content, I'm all for that too. I'm out though if Cryptic ever gets the idea to incorporate "licensed banditry" within the larger game.

    Its (one of) the reasons I don't play EVE Online. I enjoy the game but its a PUG fest with greavers behind every asteroid. It become pay to win.
  • kharkov58kharkov58 Posts: 241Member Arc User
    edited January 2019
    In my opinion, D&D is supposed to be a cooperative game. Any pen and pencil group I have been in that did any kind of pvp quickly fell apart. Also, I know I am old and my reflexes suck. I don't need to do pvp to tell me that. If part of the questing for anything significant became mandatory, I would quickly find an new game.

    Areas like Ice Wind Dale with minor quests that can be ignored by players not wanting pvp would be fine
  • darkheart#6758 darkheart Posts: 274Member Arc User
    A simple and easy: No. PvP already causes issues with PvE content and class balancing.
    Also a mod specific to pvp usually kills the playerbase in an mmo: see DCUO mod 3, i believe that helped kill beginning playerbase in that game.
  • lunartic666lunartic666 Posts: 32Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User

    A simple and easy: No. PvP already causes issues with PvE content and class balancing.

    No. There is no balance in both pvp and pve, try finding another source of problem.


  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User
    edited January 2019

    A simple and easy: No. PvP already causes issues with PvE content and class balancing.

    No. There is no balance in both pvp and pve, try finding another source of problem.

    I disagree. Any changes to class powers and abilities to accommodate PVP is garbage. D&D is simply not geared toward PVP, never has been and is not in 5e either.

    Why do you need "balancing" in PVE? Why can't the TR one shot things but be terrible with mobs? How do you "balance" a cleric with a GWF? The only considerations needed are group roles being valuable and being able to play all the classed during solo content. IMHO I would "fix" solo'ing through companions, maybe allow solo to summon more than one companion and groups continue to run one or maybe even none. Need extra healing, summon two healers. Need extra DPS, summon two strikers and you do the job of healing and buffing them.

    IMHO, tweaking companions would be a far easier and eloquent way to fix solo issues as far as "balance".

  • wintersmokewintersmoke Posts: 1,445Member Arc User

    A simple and easy: No. PvP already causes issues with PvE content and class balancing.

    No. There is no balance in both pvp and pve, try finding another source of problem.


    The source of the problem is 15 mods of players queueing for PvP, and getting rekt. So they come on the forums and scream, "Those TR's (CW's, GF's, HR's, SW's etc...) are too over powered! Nerf them, nerf them with fire!" And the devs really tried to find a balance. But the problem is, powers, and even gears do not work the same way in PvP as they do in PVE. So, tweaking one thing over here would cause massive problems over there. So, yeah, the game would have been better served if they had never tacked a PvP system onto it. Would ripping it out now help? Probably not. It would probably make things worse. But some days....
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 1,183Member Arc User

    A simple and easy: No. PvP already causes issues with PvE content and class balancing.

    No. There is no balance in both pvp and pve, try finding another source of problem.


    The source of the problem is 15 mods of players queueing for PvP, and getting rekt. So they come on the forums and scream, "Those TR's (CW's, GF's, HR's, SW's etc...) are too over powered! Nerf them, nerf them with fire!" And the devs really tried to find a balance. But the problem is, powers, and even gears do not work the same way in PvP as they do in PVE. So, tweaking one thing over here would cause massive problems over there. So, yeah, the game would have been better served if they had never tacked a PvP system onto it. Would ripping it out now help? Probably not. It would probably make things worse. But some days....
    Or indeed dont sweat on pvp - dont worry about class balance in pvp by having larger open world pvp where the balance of various classess will kind of make class balance less of an issue.

    ALSO make rewards decent so that it encourages lots of people to pvp, regardless of win or lose, GMOP+ from PVP once per day or something :)
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Posts: 535Member Arc User

    Or indeed dont sweat on pvp - dont worry about class balance in pvp by having larger open world pvp where the balance of various classess will kind of make class balance less of an issue.

    ALSO make rewards decent so that it encourages lots of people to pvp, regardless of win or lose, GMOP+ from PVP once per day or something :)
    How does a more open area change a CW being one shot'ed by a TR? I guess the HR could snip people to dead as they walk into the gate. There is an open area in Icewind Dale for PVP... no one does it. As far as making PVP a leveling requirement by hiding needed rewards behind it.... BAD HAMSTER IDEA! The devs would generate more hate from players who want NOTHING to do with PVP or grevers, etc.

    Again, there are PVP games out there build from the ground up to be PVP. You can play more than one game.

  • wylonuswylonus Posts: 2,360Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    if they want pvp, give them "Arena", it works well for Guild Wars and ESO has different style of PVP in designed areas.
  • jonkocajonkoca Posts: 2,586Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    I always hate the underlying ethos of "all dedicated pvp players are evil" on these forums.

    When I was a wee HR back in the early days of mod 2, HRs were never taken into dungeon parties during DD hour because our core mechanic - roots - used to add springy vines to the feet of mobs, and the meta at the time was for CWs to blow mob-packs off cliffs to make runs quicker... mobs that would suddenly bungee-jump back into play because the lovable HR had inadvertantly rooted them. ☺.

    99% of my PVE experience on the HR in the early mods was "HAMSTER off HR lulz you suxxx" so natuarally, denied access to dungeons and the gear they provided by elitist and inconsiderate pve purists (like you guys), I gravitated to pvp as a source of decent gear. The learning curve in pvp in this game is steep, I'll agree, not to mention littered with exploiter gankfests, and this was in the era of premades and pvp dedicated guilds all using teamspeak to coordinate themselves. And here's me in my blue gear with my zero understanding of nodes and backcapping lol.

    Still, since pvp was the only place where no-one kicked me for inconveniencing their speed runs, I persevered. Practice makes perfect. I became pretty good at the whole pvp thing, and remain so to this day. I play and enjoy both PVE and PVP, and frankly, your whole "this pvp bolt on HAMSTER should be abolished" is offensive. Pvp players in the past contributed more in terms of real money to this game than any other demograph of players, we kept the lights on in neverwinter so you could trot through your dungeons wiping out brainless mobs and bosses for the umpteenth time for whatever new shiny you wanted. New shiny that you didn't even need, because obviously, to get the new shiny, your old shiny was enough to succeed.

    This isn't pen and paper DnD. This is a video game. A video game with one of the best live rpg combat systems going even still. Pvp is fun. Pvp is the only area of the game where that new shiny you grind actually has a point. Where knowing your class mechanics, and the class mechanics of everyone else, what rotations do what, what to expect from other players, positioning, predicting, when to sacrifice yourself and take one for the team actually matter much more if you want to win a close match.

    I never get why you guys don't realise that the pve content in this game, any game, is carefully engineered so that you can win. The odds are always stacked ultimately in your favour. No dev ever sat down and said "hey let's make this new dungeon just INSANE". The pve purist's only real enemy is rng. Pvp however, has no such guarrentees. If the other team is better, you lose, every time. No rng involved. Lol, or at least not before solo-q.

    Everything you accuse pvp of, everything you accuse pvp players of, you yourselves are equally guilty of. Understand that if nothing else, and have some HAMSTER consideration for people with preferences other than your own.
    No idea what my toon is now.
  • callumf#9018 callumf Posts: 1,183Member Arc User
    jonkoca said:

    I always hate the underlying ethos of "all dedicated pvp players are evil" on these forums.

    When I was a wee HR back in the early days of mod 2, HRs were never taken into dungeon parties during DD hour because our core mechanic - roots - used to add springy vines to the feet of mobs, and the meta at the time was for CWs to blow mob-packs off cliffs to make runs quicker... mobs that would suddenly bungee-jump back into play because the lovable HR had inadvertantly rooted them. ☺.

    99% of my PVE experience on the HR in the early mods was "HAMSTER off HR lulz you suxxx" so natuarally, denied access to dungeons and the gear they provided by elitist and inconsiderate pve purists (like you guys), I gravitated to pvp as a source of decent gear. The learning curve in pvp in this game is steep, I'll agree, not to mention littered with exploiter gankfests, and this was in the era of premades and pvp dedicated guilds all using teamspeak to coordinate themselves. And here's me in my blue gear with my zero understanding of nodes and backcapping lol.

    Still, since pvp was the only place where no-one kicked me for inconveniencing their speed runs, I persevered. Practice makes perfect. I became pretty good at the whole pvp thing, and remain so to this day. I play and enjoy both PVE and PVP, and frankly, your whole "this pvp bolt on HAMSTER should be abolished" is offensive. Pvp players in the past contributed more in terms of real money to this game than any other demograph of players, we kept the lights on in neverwinter so you could trot through your dungeons wiping out brainless mobs and bosses for the umpteenth time for whatever new shiny you wanted. New shiny that you didn't even need, because obviously, to get the new shiny, your old shiny was enough to succeed.

    This isn't pen and paper DnD. This is a video game. A video game with one of the best live rpg combat systems going even still. Pvp is fun. Pvp is the only area of the game where that new shiny you grind actually has a point. Where knowing your class mechanics, and the class mechanics of everyone else, what rotations do what, what to expect from other players, positioning, predicting, when to sacrifice yourself and take one for the team actually matter much more if you want to win a close match.

    I never get why you guys don't realise that the pve content in this game, any game, is carefully engineered so that you can win. The odds are always stacked ultimately in your favour. No dev ever sat down and said "hey let's make this new dungeon just INSANE". The pve purist's only real enemy is rng. Pvp however, has no such guarrentees. If the other team is better, you lose, every time. No rng involved. Lol, or at least not before solo-q.

    Everything you accuse pvp of, everything you accuse pvp players of, you yourselves are equally guilty of. Understand that if nothing else, and have some HAMSTER consideration for people with preferences other than your own.

    Quoted for truth - I love pvp, open world pvp, 20 v 20 pvp, 50 v 10 pvp, 30 v 20 pvp, whatever. many many times I have seen a great group of 10 pvp own a zerg of 30 pvpers. I have been part of and lead many large scale 25 man raids in pvp open world. Its a GREAT feeling to capture an enemy point and hold it against all the odds by using TEAMWORK :)
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