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Winterfest fishing

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  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User

    strathkin said:

    I'm perhaps one of the few who's mostly OK with what they've tried to do--yet hear me out before you criticize or get upset.

    But please try to respectful, tis the season, even if others opinions vary from your own. o:)

    @nitocris83

    I'm not clear on what you mean by "'constructive". Do you mean - accept the changes made and just recommend how to make them better?

    If the change was both unnecessary and made the whole event unpleasant to participate in for me - I'd be dishonest if I indicated otherwise.

    The point I made (not speaking for anyone else) is that there was nothing broken about the previous experience fishing in Winter Fest. The prior fishing mechanic was much preferable to the new one, as was the zero cost model for participation.

    My constructive suggestion is roll back the changes, bring back the prior fishing mechanic for next year and I'm happy.
    I agree with kemnimtarkas, the fishing update completely removed me from fully participating in this years winterfest as I was prepared to fish for hours to prep an alt to get through some campaigns. In fact the fishing was such a turn off that I did not even do monsters on the ice or the runs, just came in and got my gift and star.

    Outside a cool mount, that would have been FAR cooler if it was an epic, this event was a real downer. But I find myself spending less and less time in this game with the changes to professions so...
  • mattachinemattachine Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    strathkin said:

    I'm perhaps one of the few who's mostly 'OK' with what they've tried to do--yet hear me out before you criticize.

    The tiny bit of Silver/Copper you spend to buy some worms, or the tiny bit of diamonds I'm perfectly fine with. It's perfectly consistent with how SoMi &/or Chult is done today. I also think it was nice to give another way to earn the Ash Fishing Rod used in SoMi &/or Chult as well. Still I think it would be nicer if they enhance it more like Fishing in SoMi in a few other aspects, but I love they are more closely integrated fishing...

    NOTE: 'I think' Ash Fishing Rod reels slower than Maple, re-check Rod Speeds at Winter Fest?

    The tiny bid of AD and Gold sinks added has to be combined with the other sinks they added for that recently in the game. Such as the awful new crafting system. That laughed in the faces of all those players who had fought so hard for so long to level up all crafting schools to max and get the best, materials, tools, and crafters. Now there are a lot of Gold and AD sinks in the game. Too many and none of them good.
    strathkin said:

    I was surprised they didn't make holes Light-Up so the rewards are improved at times. That could easily be done as some fishing holes in SoMi at least come/go every 2, 5, 10, or 15 minutes based on RNG. Perhaps if they use a 'Lookup Table' based on Map which I'm assuming they do perhaps in SoMi, or just slightly changed it then different maps based on a 1-4 RNG result would reference timers based on the Map. Then they could add Blue Holes Timers to Chult's S.River &/or Winter Fest Map's as well. For SoMi since it a very large map maybe Fishing holes appear for 2, 5, 7 or 10 minutes, if introduced to S.River in Chult it could perhaps be 1, 2, 3, or 5 minutes per hole, then for Winter perhaps 25 seconds, 40 seconds, 50 seconds or 1 minute 20 seconds. Perhaps each hole regardless of location, only is 'Enhanced' to Light-Up no more than 3-5 times per hour depending on the Map.

    I mean it's nice you can earn a [Epic] Ash Fishing Rod or an [UnCommon] Elm one. But I've wondered why is Ash Epic, and why is Elm Uncommon; Ash is the 2nd Lumber, Elm is the 3rd, and Yew is the 4th. :+1:

    First of all, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ALIVE, have ever gone to a lake or pond and cut up the ice so they could stand and use the same fishing technique as they do in summer. Fishing in the winter on smaller bodies of water that are covered with ice are done EXACTLY like the old Winter Festival fishing was done. They REQUIRE different kinds of equipment to fish in those two different ways. Why it works with fishing like that in SoMi is because they are at open sea that is not covered by ice and they are fishing from a boat. Then one could use that type of fishing equipment to fish. Although I've seen many still using the same kind of fishing equipment used for ice fishing even on open water, I have never ever seen anyone doing it the other way around.
    strathkin said:

    Still I do think they could improve the rewards from fishing just a little, I offer this up for those of you above who don't like it. Others have asked for Closer Integration with SoMi for years and I wasn't one of them. Still perhaps the rewards were better previously as it didn't take quite so long but I also think their is a problem with the Ash Rod at Winter? Still I don't think it's going back to the old way, so I instead try to 'FOCUS' on constructive criticism &/or constructive suggestions--both which help enhance or improve what we have now. Cause making fishing closely integrated to SoMi / Chult with Winter Fest could be good if they'd consider the following:

    1. Have a Dwarf's around each hole [NPC's] exclaiming how long they 'picked' ice for a 'few' ungrateful fishermen. ;)
    2. Allow one hole to LIGHT-UP blue for improved rewards, just like holes in SoMi can come / go with time. =)
    3. Possible also introduce Blue Fishing Holes to S.River in Chult, as well as adding that to Winter Fest explained above.
    4. Perhaps Dwarf's dropped some 'Winter Map in a Bottle' in holes you locate for a treasure at winter-fest. :)
    5. Maybe add a Bottle to Chult as Well, they already have treasure maps, just different method from Patrols?
    6. If also 'one' of the Winter (Ex: 19-22) Treasures awarded a Dragon Kheyek you increase chance by 1/3rd. :+1:
    Se should be wary of asking for improvements from Cryptic is this is what they consider is an improvement. No, instead they need to do a rollback to the old system for the Winter Festival. And make a legendary rod claimable for everyone who had to turn in theirs for the worthless epic one used this year.
    strathkin said:

    I'd love them 'slightly' enhancing Fishing S.River &/or Winter Fest a bit more like SoMi. Still I'm in favor of a little closer integration for all area's where fishing is available and while I never asked winter to be changed I know many have asked for it for years...

    Do not ask them to enhance anything. They will take that request as a free pass to make it as horrible as they can possibly make it.
    strathkin said:

    I've seen some upset about the Legendary Rod's, but I've never even known one person to have one, and always 'thought' they were just mostly rumors, but now I see they were in fact real. Yet perhaps they only applied to Winter Fest & were not in fact useable in SoMi. Hence the reason why they are no longer available.

    I realize many may not like some of the changes, so I mean I can understand other view points.

    But please try to respectful, tis the season, even if others opinions vary from your own. o:)

    @nitocris83

    Yes, the rods, as far as I know, only worked in the Winter Festival. As we had to get other ones for SoMi. I was one who spent a lot of time getting one of the Legendary ones. I fished like crazy and I think many might have mistaken me for a bot as I ran the fishing, the race and the monsters at the lake events back to back. This year I think I've done the monsters three times, the race four and the fishing once. The only thing I did was claim the free gift and look at the stars. Lost all interest in doing anything else.

    So, lesson to be learned for those asking Cryptic to improve something.

    DON'T EVER DO IT! THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO RUIN IT!

    Ask for new things, that is fine as they hopefully don't mess the old stuff up (and yes I know their history of messing old stuff up with releases of new stuff, but usually they fix them. But sometimes they just remove the content, like countless dungeons).
  • krysnytekrysnyte Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    Fishing sux and NO WAY the devs thought that would be fun for anyone. Whoever designed the fishing is really out of touch. No body wants to do that! Nobody! I spend so much time trying to fish so I could get treasures for my baby toons. I got enough treasures to buy 3 currencies.

    RIDICULOUS!

    I just seriously want someone to take these dev's and say, "FOR ONCE, listen to your users, and not your own stupid egos and ideas."
  • pitmonster#5684 pitmonster Member Posts: 537 Arc User
    krysnyte said:

    Fishing sux and NO WAY the devs thought that would be fun for anyone. Whoever designed the fishing is really out of touch. No body wants to do that! Nobody! I spend so much time trying to fish so I could get treasures for my baby toons. I got enough treasures to buy 3 currencies.

    RIDICULOUS!

    I just seriously want someone to take these dev's and say, "FOR ONCE, listen to your users, and not your own stupid egos and ideas."

    How often do you see anyone from Cryptic post here. How about something like "we are thinking of replacing ice fishing with SOMI fishing, what do you think" before even coding it on preview? I mean you have to take forum posts with a grain of salt since its a tiny subset of you user base but when 9 of 10 reactions is negative, that should clue you in.
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited January 2019
    strathkin said:

    I'm perhaps one of the few who's mostly 'OK' with what they've 'tried' to do--yet hear me out before you criticize.

    The bit of Gold/Silver/Copper you spend to buy some worms, or the few thousand diamonds I'm perfectly fine with. It's perfectly consistent with how SoMi &/or Chult is done today. I also think it was nice to give another way to earn the Ash Fishing Rod used in SoMi &/or Chult as well...

    -snip-

    You've just confirmed my point, those who like the type of fishing mechanics they have at the SOMI and Chult now have three areas where the fishing mechanics are identical and the people who don't like the way they fish at SOMI and Chult now have nowhere to fish...

    Yes you now have another area where you can earn the Ash fishing rod, in addition to the two you previously had - but those who aren't into that type of fishing now have nothing ~
    wylonus said:

    dionchi, i know some did ask for change for something better and more enjoyable and to stop the bots, but what they done was more damaging and ripped out the soul of winter festival, that kind of fix inst what we were looking for. no one want SOMI format fishing and now they cost the price just to play.
    SOMI keys were just nerve twitching, cant fishing like that, i hate to wake up in morning and seeing my fingers get jerking motion.

    Regarding something "different and more enjoyable", the developers updated the Festival of Liars by adding new content - not by taking existing content and drastically altering it and personally I would and have given them accolades for what they did in that context...

    although I don't personally believe anyone "ripped the soul out of the Winter Festival", in my opinion they certainly smother-fracked the fishing event.

    The thing that bothers me the most is regarding the type of fishing the developers implemented this year for the Winter Festival it is supposedly identical to the type of fishing found in two other areas. If anyone didn't like fishing in those other areas they wouldn't participate, but they could still fish at the Winter Festival...

    I'm one of those people.

    Now we have all fishing venues, including the one at the Winter Festival the same, so those who like the type of fishing to be found in the Sea of Moving Ice and Chult now have three different areas where they can enjoy fishing - but the people who don't enjoy fishing in Chult or the Sea of Moving Ice now have no where to fish.

    As to the bots issue, I'm no programmer but I find it very difficult to believe this was the only way they had to address any possible botting issue - it just seems to be the easiest and most expedient, just cut and paste a piece of the code fro SOMI and put it into the Winter Festival...

    Perhaps the Neverwinter people consider this progress, me personally, I consider it exclusion.

    Just my 2¢

    Post edited by dionchi on
    DD~
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,710 Arc User

    krysnyte said:

    Fishing sux and NO WAY the devs thought that would be fun for anyone. Whoever designed the fishing is really out of touch. No body wants to do that! Nobody! I spend so much time trying to fish so I could get treasures for my baby toons. I got enough treasures to buy 3 currencies.

    RIDICULOUS!

    I just seriously want someone to take these dev's and say, "FOR ONCE, listen to your users, and not your own stupid egos and ideas."

    How often do you see anyone from Cryptic post here. How about something like "we are thinking of replacing ice fishing with SOMI fishing, what do you think" before even coding it on preview? I mean you have to take forum posts with a grain of salt since its a tiny subset of you user base but when 9 of 10 reactions is negative, that should clue you in.
    Basically this bit - no one in their right mind produces a new Product without some idea that it is needed by someone somewhere for some reason. Its the very first principle of business.

    For example would you purchase a mobile phone that had almost zero battery life, weighed 10 kilos [22lbs], only worked during the hours of darkness and cost $10,000? No of course not.

    But when you have a new product that you are thinking of launching, you ask a sample of people what they think of it. Maybe only 10 or 20 people. If they ALL say it sucks, chances are... it sucks.

    Like the random queue idea...
  • dionchidionchi Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    edited January 2019

    krysnyte said:

    Fishing sux and NO WAY the devs thought that would be fun for anyone. Whoever designed the fishing is really out of touch. No body wants to do that! Nobody! I spend so much time trying to fish so I could get treasures for my baby toons. I got enough treasures to buy 3 currencies.

    RIDICULOUS!

    I just seriously want someone to take these dev's and say, "FOR ONCE, listen to your users, and not your own stupid egos and ideas."

    How often do you see anyone from Cryptic post here. How about something like "we are thinking of replacing ice fishing with SOMI fishing, what do you think" before even coding it on preview? I mean you have to take forum posts with a grain of salt since its a tiny subset of you user base but when 9 of 10 reactions is negative, that should clue you in.
    Basically this bit - no one in their right mind produces a new Product without some idea that it is needed by someone somewhere for some reason. Its the very first principle of business.

    For example would you purchase a mobile phone that had almost zero battery life, weighed 10 kilos [22lbs], only worked during the hours of darkness and cost $10,000? No of course not.

    But when you have a new product that you are thinking of launching, you ask a sample of people what they think of it. Maybe only 10 or 20 people. If they ALL say it sucks, chances are... it sucks.

    Like the random queue idea...
    Yeah I was with you until the very last sentence. Seems to me a lot of people like the random queue format, myself included.

    I've been playing for quite a while so I'm not one of the new players who wouldn't be able to compare the new random queue format to the previous format.

    As @pitmonster#5684 said, even if we took count of every person who posts here thinking the random queue "sucks" -vs- those who like the random queue format, that's still not indicative of the majority opinion of all the people who play Neverwinter - just the majority opinion of people who post on the forum which I'm guessing is just a minute sampling of everyone who plays Neverwinter

    And I would guess it works the same way for people who preview new content prior to a general public release, even though a majority of people who participate in preview say something is bad, there is no guarantee that same opinion will be shared by the majority of people who play Neverwinter, because again preview participants represent a fraction of people who actually play the game and I think the developers recognize that fact so I can understand why the developers appreciate the opinion of people who preview new content - but don't necessarily take their suggestions as being indicative of what everyone who plays Neverwinter is going to think.

    I think our difference of opinion on the random queue content pretty clearly shows that.

    It might actually help your case when you say something sucks to include a "because" to explain your opinion, but if I were to guess I would think it is because players can't pick and choose what content they want to play and have to play in a party instead of being able to solo content they prefer to more quickly and easily accumulate astral diamonds.

    But that's just a guess ~
    DD~
  • callumf#9018 callumf Member Posts: 1,710 Arc User
    dionchi said:

    krysnyte said:

    Fishing sux and NO WAY the devs thought that would be fun for anyone. Whoever designed the fishing is really out of touch. No body wants to do that! Nobody! I spend so much time trying to fish so I could get treasures for my baby toons. I got enough treasures to buy 3 currencies.

    RIDICULOUS!

    I just seriously want someone to take these dev's and say, "FOR ONCE, listen to your users, and not your own stupid egos and ideas."

    How often do you see anyone from Cryptic post here. How about something like "we are thinking of replacing ice fishing with SOMI fishing, what do you think" before even coding it on preview? I mean you have to take forum posts with a grain of salt since its a tiny subset of you user base but when 9 of 10 reactions is negative, that should clue you in.
    Basically this bit - no one in their right mind produces a new Product without some idea that it is needed by someone somewhere for some reason. Its the very first principle of business.

    For example would you purchase a mobile phone that had almost zero battery life, weighed 10 kilos [22lbs], only worked during the hours of darkness and cost $10,000? No of course not.

    But when you have a new product that you are thinking of launching, you ask a sample of people what they think of it. Maybe only 10 or 20 people. If they ALL say it sucks, chances are... it sucks.

    Like the random queue idea...
    Yeah I was with you until the very last sentence. Seems to me a lot of people like the random queue format, myself included.

    I've been playing for quite a while so I'm not one of the new players who wouldn't be able to compare the new random queue format to the previous format.

    As @pitmonster#5684 said, even if we took count of every person who posts here thinking the random queue "sucks" -vs- those who like the random queue format, that's still not indicative of the majority opinion of all the people who play Neverwinter - just the majority opinion of people who post on the forum which I'm guessing is just a minute sampling of everyone who plays Neverwinter

    And I would guess it works the same way for people who preview new content prior to a general public release, even though a majority of people who participate in preview say something is bad, there is no guarantee that same opinion will be shared by the majority of people who play Neverwinter, because again preview participants represent a fraction of people who actually play the game and I think the developers recognize that fact so I can understand why the developers appreciate the opinion of people who preview new content - but don't necessarily take their suggestions as being indicative of what everyone who plays Neverwinter is going to think.

    I think our difference of opinion on the random queue content pretty clearly shows that.

    It might actually help your case when you say something sucks to include a "because" to explain your opinion, but if I were to guess I would think it is because players can't pick and choose what content they want to play and have to play in a party instead of being able to solo content they prefer to more quickly and easily accumulate astral diamonds.

    But that's just a guess ~
    Yeah I guess the Random Queue point was a bit contentious. Iam split on it myself, but there were/are many who dont/didnt like it whihc was my point. And yes sometimes you have to ignore forum users as we are quite often overly negative ;)
  • mattachinemattachine Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    There are two different ways of fishing in the winter. Open water fishing and ice fishing. For water to not freeze it has to be either too warm (it doesn't reach it's freezing point) or flowing/moving too fast to freeze. Which is why oceans take the longest to freeze then rivers with strong currents and small lakes/ponds freeze faster.

    Nowhere (because none is so stupid with wasting their energy) do they cut up giant holes in the ice for the purpose of fishing. Some countries do it for swimming though. But that is an other topic. What they actually do is that they drill holes in the ice to fish. That kind of fishing uses a completely different kind of gear then open water fishing does. Like how the fishing gear the old winter event fishing used. It made sense. I know that some even use that ice fishing gear to fish from boats. But never ever even heard of anyone using open water fishing gear to fish on ice.

    I'm guessing I could have been seen as being a bot, even though I weren't, previous years. I used to run the race, the lake and the fishing contests round and round for hours on my characters. This year I ran the fishing once, and the lake as well as the race only a handful of times. After that I simply went there for the gifts and telescope. While there I never saw anyone fishing when ever I was in the area during the fishing contest.

    Blaming bots for these changes seems odd. As the rewards for fishing are not that great. It mainly helps us to gain the currencies to buy the items we want for our character from the winter event stores. If they wanted to both get rid of the bots and make the players happier they would simply have to change all the bound to character and unbound items into bound to account. That way bots wouldn't be able to sell anything they got and the players would be able to give any multiple identical rewards they get to an other character on their account.

    The choice they made thinking that those that had legendary fishing rods for the winter event would be happy getting epic fishing gear replacement for a kind of fishing that we never ever want to do, that's a very poor choice. An equally poor choice as they did with the crafting system, thinking that those with all purple quality tools, crafters and materials would be fairly compensated for that with not being able to get that level of new tools, crafters and materials from the start.

    I would like to see the data presented in a graph on how many participated in the fishing part of the 2017-2018 winter event and how many participated in the fishing part of the 2018-2019 event. I would guess that it would show a 95% drop in participation.
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