Counteracting Push/Pull via Gear

chemjeff

What gear can be used to counteract the push/pull in Cradle?
And are the devs thinking of introducing an item, or changing some existing item (like Elven Battle enchant), to be effective against Push/Pull in Cradle?

sgtpostal

i been in cradle many times an i aint kno nurrin abt any gear that counteracts the push/pull affect in there on last boss....an far as i kno aint nuttin comin to counteract it from the devs........

forumnamesuxs

chempls ... it's not a very hard mechanic to master. the only way it could be an issue, is if you're having some kind of performance issues, be it latency or frame drops, and the only way to negate that, is if they remove the mechanic entirely, which they won't do.

b4t1b4t

The push/pull mechanic is rather easy to handle on any toon. The key to it is where you stand at. In some places the air is to strong but in other places the air is weak and makes it easier. The safe spots is where you can turn around and see the elevator that you get off of behind you in the background. If you are near or behind a demon face on the wall in the back ground then you are really in a bad spot.
The idea is to look at the boss and press back to make sure you do not fall off maybe near the end where the boss is press shift backwards once or twice. When the first part is over make sure your as close to where the boss is at so that when you are pushed backward your not fall off.
As for any gear or enchants or anything in game to counter this mechanic that is a big fat no.
There is nothing but learning where to stand and when to use shift and where to be at for the end of the mechanic. My advice is to seek out training groups.

chemjeff

forumnamesuxs said:

chempls ... it's not a very hard mechanic to master. the only way it could be an issue, is if you're having some kind of performance issues, be it latency or frame drops, and the only way to negate that, is if they remove the mechanic entirely, which they won't do.

The problem is my reaction time. I cannot react fast enough when the boss starts to go immune, to when I have to go to the outer edge. And then more importantly, I cannot react fast enough to when the pull switches to push. I have tried the "count to four" trick but my count is always off, because I don't start my count at the correct time, because I didn't react soon enough at the outset. I have practiced many many many times and I can't overcome these limitations. That is why I was asking for some piece of gear that would at least mitigate, if not counteract, the push-pull effect.

chemjeff

b4t1b4t said:

The idea is to look at the boss and press back to make sure you do not fall off maybe near the end where the boss is press shift backwards once or twice. When the first part is over make sure your as close to where the boss is at so that when you are pushed backward your not fall off.

Okay. So at the end of the pull phase, if I am standing right on the inner edge of the ring, am I guaranteed not to be pushed off during the push phase?

ecrana

Mystical Pants of Skill +1, Shirt of Learn Mechanics +2 & Feet of Stickiness coming soon to a cradle near you!

vorphied

> @chemjeff said:
> The idea is to look at the boss and press back to make sure you do not fall off maybe near the end where the boss is press shift backwards once or twice. When the first part is over make sure your as close to where the boss is at so that when you are pushed backward your not fall off.
>
>
> Okay. So at the end of the pull phase, if I am standing right on the inner edge of the ring, am I guaranteed not to be pushed off during the push phase?

If you don’t walk against the push as it happens, you can still fall off.

Like we discussed in-game, you also cannot be TOO close the inside edge, or you will fall in unless you are in the middle of something like a DC or CW shift animation that prevents you from falling over ledges.

hawkeyel

The only thing I want them to make to counter that effect is some mc hammer pants, you cant touch this.

dupeks

chemjeff said:

b4t1b4t said:

The idea is to look at the boss and press back to make sure you do not fall off maybe near the end where the boss is press shift backwards once or twice. When the first part is over make sure your as close to where the boss is at so that when you are pushed backward your not fall off.

Okay. So at the end of the pull phase, if I am standing right on the inner edge of the ring, am I guaranteed not to be pushed off during the push phase?

Correct. The devs neutered the push/pull mechanic a while after launch because so many people were struggling to figure it out. So now it just requires that you pay attention for the first half and wind up in the right spot near the inner edge, and you’re fine.

If you pay attention to the other players in the instance, you should have more than enough time to follow them to the outer edge (possibly away from / in between the heads if you believe in that... I’m not sure I can tell a difference)

You can probably tell, but I’m kind of bummed that the devs removed the skill check from this content. Now it just feels really boring to grind CODG even in a pug. But I get how even a rudimentary skill check made the content inaccessible or a stunningly large part of the game population. On balance I guess it’s for the health of the game

chemjeff

@vorphied and @dupeks are saying two different things. Can I just stand at the inner edge during push phase, and not get pushed off, or not?

Also, how do you know when the pull switches to push? That is the hardest thing that I cannot figure out.

ecrana

chemjeff said:

@vorphied and @dupeks are saying two different things. Can I just stand at the inner edge during push phase, and not get pushed off, or not?

Also, how do you know when the pull switches to push? That is the hardest thing that I cannot figure out.

I don't count it as everyone seems to have a different count tempo but 3-4 secs is the norm. There's a momentary lapse in the pulling effect for a split second before the push happens. If you're on the inner edge when the push comes you should be safe 99% of the time. I've fallen off 1-2 times when I was on the inner ring and the culprit seemed to be shepherds increasing my speed so my adjustment time was off.

What class are you on? Most times on the push, you can also use your dash move to go back towards inner edge if you think you're going off. Tanks can just drop the shield and the effects are minimized too.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

nooneatza

Aren't you the same guy that wanted fbi to be easier a month or two ago? I guess you got past fbi and now are looking into cradle, eh, gz !

Cradle of the death god is going to be one year old in two months, yet people ARE STILL HOSTING PRACTICE RUNS !!
Unless you're one of those 18k gwf's with hags rags, you got a chance at learning the mechanic, practice it more.

Little side note:
The mentality "Oh if i'm not good from the start it's the things fault" is pretty bad, and will affect you negatively in real life too. Practice makes perfect.

vorphied

> @chemjeff said:
> @vorphied and @dupeks are saying two different things. Can I just stand at the inner edge during push phase, and not get pushed off, or not?
>
> Also, how do you know when the pull switches to push? That is the hardest thing that I cannot figure out.

We can both be correct depending on positioning and some variation in the push mechanic. If you don’t walk against the push effect, though, you have a reasonable chance of being pushed off (similar to how players can sometimes be dumped off Ras Nsi’s platform from mid-screen if they go completely passive and let it happen).

You mentioned before that the indicators for pull switching to push don’t work for you, but I’ll go through them again just in case:

- Sucking wind animation is visible during the pull phase, especially near the heads in the wall. There is also a sound effect.

- When the pull stops, the animation and sound effect cease. Your character will also stop being dragged towards the middle. You have about a 1 second lull to prepare for the push.

Even if your reaction time isn’t super fast, watching videos and practicing should eventually get you there. You start to remember how long the phase should last, and you know what to do.

The important thing is not to panic, because you will remember very little. Be okay with falling off if you need time to do nothing but observe the process first-hand while not simultaneously trying to beat it.

thefiresidecat

chemjeff said:

forumnamesuxs said:

chempls ... it's not a very hard mechanic to master. the only way it could be an issue, is if you're having some kind of performance issues, be it latency or frame drops, and the only way to negate that, is if they remove the mechanic entirely, which they won't do.

The problem is my reaction time. I cannot react fast enough when the boss starts to go immune, to when I have to go to the outer edge. And then more importantly, I cannot react fast enough to when the pull switches to push. I have tried the "count to four" trick but my count is always off, because I don't start my count at the correct time, because I didn't react soon enough at the outset. I have practiced many many many times and I can't overcome these limitations. That is why I was asking for some piece of gear that would at least mitigate, if not counteract, the push-pull effect.

chem what toon do you play? imo different toons play it differently. unless there is baddd lag my dc is guaranteed no fall. my hr on the other hand. 50 50 maybe worse. I play it by as soon as he goes down i start running along the far edge and as I get sucked in I dodge outwards twice and then pause and dodge sideways. the hr trips on nonexistent things and goes down. I think hr dodge just doesn't last long enough to get thru it. with the hr I try to dodge three times and then do one against pp. but it's hit and miss. the dodge for hr is supposed to be changed with mod 15 it will be interesting to see how it works then. oh I guess this is the pc part of the forum. lol. well I don't know how that works so.. I can't comment on the recent changes but in general..

vorphied

A dodge makes it very easy, but you don’t need to use one, especially if your movement speed is buffed.

On SW and GWF I recommend not to sprint unless your speed is very slow and/or you’re forced to do it to avoid a red knock-up AoE since sprinting/slipping with a high movement speed is asking to hit a non-existent pebble and go flying off the ledge.

chemjeff

I am referring mainly to trying to do Cradle on my DC. I have pretty much given up on finishing it on my GWF.

nooneatza

Logged in game and saw a group making cradle, i said why not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9cx6DQEq0&feature=youtu.be


This is how i do it on dc, you don't even need the dodge, nor the buff from arti persuasion

The push/pulls happen at 0:43 and 1:50.

namelesshero347

Wow, after seeing the clip, it seems the push/pull got serious nerf. Used to be much harder. I'm surprised all the CoDG runs that's been terrorizing me in REQ the past two weeks have all been fails because half the group is lost after the first push/pull. Who wants to use scrolls after that.

chemjeff

nooneatza said:

Logged in game and saw a group making cradle, i said why not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C9cx6DQEq0&feature=youtu.be


This is how i do it on dc, you don't even need the dodge, nor the buff from arti persuasion

The push/pulls happen at 0:43 and 1:50.

Thank you for that helpful video. Just two questions:

1. I noticed that you were moving to the outer edge even before the boss went immune, particularly for the second push-pull. How did you know to do that?
2. I also noticed that you dashed to the inner part of the ring just in time for the push. You walked against the pull, and then at the last moment, you ran to the inner ring. How did you know when to do that? Because that is my biggest problem right there.

dupeks

chemjeff said:

1. I noticed that you were moving to the outer edge even before the boss went immune, particularly for the second push-pull. How did you know to do that?

Boss's health bar disappears and boss goes immune but not un-targetable (at exactly 0:43). You can also anticipate this a little bit because it happens every 25% of bosses' health gone.

chemjeff said:

2. I also noticed that you dashed to the inner part of the ring just in time for the push. You walked against the pull, and then at the last moment, you ran to the inner ring. How did you know when to do that? Because that is my biggest problem right there.

That's the "skill check." It essentially requires practice to get a good sense of how long the pull is. There are also the strategies folks mentioned:

Counting 4 seconds -- 0:52 to 0:56 is the actual pull. Then you have 1 second to adjust your footing and push happens end of 0:57. And listening for sound cues.

The other thing you see them doing in the video is letting themselves be pushed a little, then running against it a little, and repeating that rather than just holding run. That makes it a little easier to get incrementally closer to inner edge by the time the pull ends

Lastly, having a higher move speed helps by making it easier to just run against the pull some of the time and also with the 1 second adjustment between pull-push. I'd think about slotting Gladiator's Guile and Shepherd's Devotion (which is pretty awesome in its own right) to help with that.

PS: In my earlier comment I meant that if you wind up on the inner edge after the pull, you don't need to run against the push anymore, you can just stand. When cradle first came out, you needed to also run against the 2nd push because it was powerful enough to knock you off even if you started at the inner edge. That's no longer the case and as long as you wind up on the inner edge following the 1st part pull, you're safe.

chemjeff

Thanks for your comment.

b4t1b4t

chemjeff said:

b4t1b4t said:

The idea is to look at the boss and press back to make sure you do not fall off maybe near the end where the boss is press shift backwards once or twice. When the first part is over make sure your as close to where the boss is at so that when you are pushed backward your not fall off.

Okay. So at the end of the pull phase, if I am standing right on the inner edge of the ring, am I guaranteed not to be pushed off during the push phase?

No one really can guarantee that you will not die. It is to be honest a bit hard to really explain how to counter the phase. On my warlock I died maybe 100 different times on it and figured out that there are places where the air flow isnt so strong and others where its so strong that you cant really handle it. All I can say is this. If you durin the boss fight turn around and see the elevator in the background behind you then when the push pull happens stand at the outter edge and look at the boss and press backwards to stay on the platform. When its over and before the baby pops back up make sure your as close to the boss as you can be then you will most likely live. It takes time to master it. There is a real big difference between reading how or seeing how and actually doing it.

spidey

nooneatza said:

Unless you're one of those 18k gwf's with hags rags, you got a chance at learning the mechanic, practice it more.

This + cry baby TRs claiming not to play this game anymore in a funny YT way.
So anoying such gamers, dont you think?

BTT:
After the nerf is much easier. For all classes. Just practice with your guilde or with your alliance.

cherryman1

The only gear that counteracts the push/pull is things that give movement speed. The less movement speed you have the more precise you have to be in positioning. Also, if you do the run back and forth in a line if your not adjusting for the speed boosts for the party your very likely to just run off the platform. I prefer to run at an angle into the edge that I am moving against. This way I don't run off the platform if I am running my SW/GWF in the content as I will just run around the ring like it is track for a race. The only other thing I have found that negates or limits the push/pull is the use of your shift ability. Some people will use their shift like the DC slide to help them stay on. Lastly, this boss has a lot of queues on when things happen based on the sounds happening. If you turn off the sounds and play without out them expect to have a harder time.

Mechanics happen in this order: push pulls happen at the 75% HP mark, 50% hp Mark and after you kill Acerak and it is below 25% hp every 30 seconds you will have another push/pull phase. You can go lower than those amounts for when things happen but that is only until a current boss animation is completed. Then it will start the push pull phase by going immune and untargetable.

chemjeff

Okay so I have practiced maybe 10 more times since I initially posted this. I still haven't done it. But what I noticed is that the pull strength on me is about twice as hard as that which is displayed in the video above. In the video, the first pull "tug" on the player drags him about ~30% of the way to the inner edge. For me, the first "tug" drags me about ~80% of the way. So just by walking backwards, I don't get far enough away from the inner edge before the second "tug" drags me in to the middle. So there is ALREADY some gear difference, I suppose. I guess it is movement speed? What is the movement speed that I should have? A high number or a low number? I took out my 2xDark R12 utility enchantments for my most recent practice and frankly I didn't seem to notice a difference. But do I need much much higher, or much much lower?

Also, I just cannot hear the audio cue for the transition between push and pull. I have tried adjusting all the sound settings, I have tried wearing a headset, I don't know what else to think of next. Which of the audio sliders in the options menu controls the volume for this particular effect? I will turn only that one up to max and silence all the others and see if that helps.

Edit: Okay so I just re-read @dupeks ' comment above. So I need a very high movement speed? I don't have Gladiator's Guile on my DC. I am guessing that this is a mandatory requirement? Why does no one say that Gladiator's Guile is mandatory? Also, I am guessing that I should cast a daily power right before the pull, in order to proc Shepherd's Devotion?

chemjeff

So if I slot 5 Dark utility enchants, and use Gladiator's Guile, and cast a daily/cast my artifact right before the pull, in order to trigger Shepherd's Devotion and Artificer's Persuasion, then I should be fine?

veywiil

I personally find having as little speed as possible helps, for example I WON'T use Heart of the Black Dragon on purpose when the boss is already immune.

In other news, I personally believe the push/pull mechanic likely got nerfed due to the terrible lag we had when running cradle during the 2x events. I remember being in the middle of the platform after pull ended, and then suddenly clipped straight through the floor and into the abyss, because the lag was that severe, and I wasn't alone, we had like 5 people wipe all at the same time this way, and it persisted for the whole weekend.

chemjeff

So do I want high movement speed, or not?

As things stand right now, I don't have Gladiator's Guile, and the first "tug" of the pull drags me ~80% of the way to the inner ring. With or without 2xR12 Darks in utility slots, it doesn't seem to matter. I would LIKE to have the situation as portrayed in the video, where the first "tug" of the pull drags the player only maybe 30-40% of the way. How can I make that happen?

chemjeff

Should I hold down the backward walk key for the duration of the pull? If so, when should I start holding down the backwards walk key?