Making a petition once was a tool to draw some attention from devs btw. but as it looks there is no option for petitions any more? It did work for several bugged or broken stuff in the past like Lostmauth set. For example: Petition/Vote to ban PVE gear or setboni in general from PVP, same as drains etc.
why is the OPs temp hp is nerfed in pvp? now absolution,binding oath,etc. sucks. the op hits like a girl,slow as a turtle and now the devs took away his only ace card? for christ's sake guys, how do you think OP users would feel when compared to the GF in PVP who one shots other classes? please make NW PVP great again by at least making it fair. iv'e been playing since mod 4 and i still believe in you guys that you could make pvp fair and enjoyable again.
Some OP´s dish out hard in PVP btw. and those OP´s 1:1 against a GF should win the race these days I think. Maybe ask some hard hitter like Bullrath or others, you need the correct build to do so. I think the bigger problem in PVP with paladin are all his bugged loops (SW/GF/GWF) that´s why they stay at campfire in some matches, watching the cealing. Otherwise the class would be on top, since his buffs are too good in PVP, they turn most scrubs in killing machines and OP would be the next fotm class to blame to be over the top. Same as GWF would be one a popular class if not that TR was. As long as that class drops up to 400k SoD on 16k player in PVP this all is completely pointless and a waste of time cryptic. I attest this company the worst and most unbalanced PVP on this planet with no will and no clue how to handle it
..Also and very important, people shouldn't be able to PvP (or should have their own queue) if they are below 10k. I know that a 17k can destroy a 10.1k easily. But PvP is getting full of 4k/6k people. I don't know what are they, but surely not real players. A normal player reach level 70 with more than 4k and those trashy level 40 items I have seen and you would be suprise if you them (not even counting how slow and robotic they move and brainless they act)...
That´s what I also think when entering RAQ or REQ , but those player speak to me and tell me things like: "Ehm, no sry I do this first time" or "Sry I got no mof setup or buffer templock setup, I play this class since short" or "Sry I miss some gear". Some of them even don´t know what game they play I guess, same as they never say a word being pulled through content.. like "Thank you"
@schietindebux said: > Making a petition once was a tool to draw some attention from devs btw., it did work for several bugged or broken stuff in the past like Lostmauth set. > why is the OPs temp hp is nerfed in pvp? now absolution,binding oath,etc. sucks. the op hits like a girl,slow as a turtle and now the devs took away his only ace card? for christ's sake guys, how do you think OP users would feel when compared to the GF in PVP who one shots other classes? please make NW PVP great again by at least making it fair. iv'e been playing since mod 4 and i still believe in you guys that you could make pvp fair and enjoyable again. > > Some OP´s dish out hard in PVP btw. and those OP´s 1:1 against a GF should win the race these days, maybe ask some hard hitter like Bullrath or others. I think the problem in PVP with paladin are all his bugged loops (SW/GF/GWF) otherwise the class would be on top, same as GWF would be one of the best classes if not that TR was. > ..Also and very important, people shouldn't be able to PvP (or should have their own queue) if they are below 10k. I know that a 17k can destroy a 10.1k easily. But PvP is getting full of 4k/6k people. I don't know what are they, but surely not real players. A normal player reach level 70 with more than 4k and those trashy level 40 items I have seen and you would be suprise if you them (not even counting how slow and robotic they move and brainless they act)... > /blockquote> > > That´s what I also think when entering RAQ or REQ , but those player speak to me and tell me things like: "Öhm, no sry I do this first time" or "Sry I got no mof setup or buffer templock seup, I play this class since short" or "Sry I miss some gear". > Some of them even don´t know what game they play I guess...
frozenfirevrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,475Community Moderator
This has already been noticed. I'll ask if anybody can respond
But since M15 would've already been finalised a while back, it's unlikely there'll be major changes. You might want to wait for information on the class balancing coming with M15 and rewrite your post.
I will summarize the previous threads on how to improve pvp. In order to make pvp better next mod (or in the near future), I only list those most people suggested to fix (the most important and feasible ones). Hopefully we should see these change soon.
1. Class balance rework
Fix the double infiltrator buff bug after TR bloodbath (20% more damage). With this nerf. TR will get 20% less damage from daily and sod. Also bllodbath double proc infiltrator's action, which may have 2x damage (2* 5%) buff if you use the offhand weapon feature.
Nerf base damage of GF a little bit. Most people agree GF is still overpowered so a little nerf on damage will make it more balanced. One way is to nerf the damage buff of passive power (combat superiority, etc.)
Fix SW infernal sphere bug. When it interact with certain power from other classes it will create insane loop and hit 100+ times in 2 seconds and lag the whole instance. E.g. when GF use that daily which reflect damage back to enemy, or when OP use tab.
Fix OP shield strike. Most OP at least in PC spam shield strike without hitting enemy to gain 3 stacks of shield which makes them almost immortal. Even the best TR can’t bite them a little bit after they build 3 stacks. One way to fix it is to make shield strike work only when hit physical enemy.
2. Remove broken items. Any item that takes 1/3 of enemy’s hp away in 1 second or stun people suddenly (unpredictable) will make the game less consistent. Fix or totally remove mane of manticore, cowl of dead, sandy’s pants, as suggest by almost all players. Cowl of dead is especially broken on TR since they can stealth and proc bloodbath suddenly to prone you. With the high damage build their bloodbath can kill you in less than 3 seconds which is not fun.
3. Rework on cc stacks
Some class can control you for more than 10 seconds in a row with 5-6 control powers and yet make you gain only 2 or 3 cc stacks.
This applies especially to trapper. Trapper can keep controlling you till death if you are a CW or SW. One way to fix is to count cc stack as the number of control power used.
4. Place a soft cap on certain stats.
Most people and devs believe [Recovery] from TR need a rework. With 20k+ recovery most TR can hide in stealth and keep annoying enemy. [Life steal] also need a rework, some gwf and and sw can heal themselves from 20% to 100% in less than 3 seconds. Any class that builds extreme dps and life steal can be unbalanced without a cap. [Deflect] may also need a soft cap. With the 25% deflect chance from eclipse enchantment it’s so easy for some class to stack 100% deflect chance and make them almost unkillable. This is especially important considering the 75%-85% deflect severity of TR. Many TR in PC has reached 100% deflect chance.
5. Remove stamina and AP drains. Since almost all people agree these 2 stuff are overpowered so removing them will make pvp more attractive. Most people don’t carry a ward since they wouldn’t expect people to use it. But there are still some people exploiting it. These drains are especially overpowered on TR, HR and SW. given how fast TR and HR can proc daily (TR bloodbath, HR interruption shot), they can drain people’s AP too fast. For SW, one daily can drain people’s AP from 100% to 0% in 2 seconds. Although this may not be a bug but it’s much overpowered. Since only a small proportion of people are abusing them so removing them will make most people happy without affecting a lot of players.
There are much more things that need to be done in pvp - map, rewards, queue system. But given how complicated it is to fix these stuff in neverwinter, I would suggest only fix these important but simple stuff first before reworking on more complicated issues. This will at least satisfy most people who complains pvp a lot and hopefully attract more players into pvp.
Before powercreep for stats had advanced this far, the TR passives + bloodbath bug that effects Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action, and Razor Action used to be beneficial. This was because it helped TRs compensate for the low damage coming from our encounters and at wills. It also buffed bloodbath's damage by just enough to make it useful for doing damage without giving BB too much damage. There was even speculation from multiple TRs that this bug may have been left in on purpose so the devs wouldn't have to buff certain powers. Unfortunately, this bug has outlived its beneficial status thanks to all the stats that have been increased since those days. This bug does need to be fixed now as it + the stats is simply too much.
As for all the stat powercreep in PVP, this is my #1 candidate for biggest issue in PVP besides all the broken items so I'm happy to see this get a mention. In my opinion, the most problematic overstackable stats from greatest to least are: Recovery, Deflect, Power, Lifesteal Severity, and Lifesteal.
Recovery and other sources of cooldown reduction is easily the worst and is the most urgent stat issue to address. Here are some of the things recovery powercreep negatively impacts: This stat's growth over the years is the root cause of just about every problematic aspect of TRs, other than the newer version of SOD. It also poses a dormant hazard for powers across all classes that may be fine right now but could become a serious issue in the future purely due to recovery continuing to increase. Recovery along with overpowered items can and has undone several of the dev's class power nerf attempts over the years. Recovery ensured that the CC diminishing returns system even if implemented well would not have helped in the long run but would have simply been a bandaid that temporarily helped in the short term. It makes daily powers usable too often as well. Recovery also has had a strong negative effect on balancing control builds and CC powers in general. When there is too much cooldown reduction available, it becomes much harder for the devs to make a CC power good without it being too powerful. The end result is a lot of watered down nearly useless CC powers and a few overpreforming ones. The watered down builds have to either build for a different role such as damage or tankyness or they have spam their powers constantly to keep up. The classes with stronger CC powers with higher uptimes end up being too powerful because they get both the better CCs and the ability to spam them thanks to all of that recovery. Historically recovery had a lot to do with DC builds being too powerful as well.
Deflection chance being stackable to 100% is nothing new but it has always posed serious balancing concerns and not just for TRs. 100% deflection chance should not be reachable period, its overpowered in a PVP setting no matter what class you stick it on. I'm unsure exactly what number would be the most balanced max number for deflect in PVP but it definitely should not be able to go higher than 60% through 70%.
Power being left sky high while only recovery and deflection chance get toned down is likely to end up lopsided and result in people stacking even more power than they are already, power likely needs to be scaled down alongside these 2 stats to keep damage vs defensive stats balanced.
Lifesteal severity and lifesteal are not universally overpowered for all classes but can still pose moderate concern for some of them, namely GWFs and SWs. Lifesteal chance is difficult to tone down much further without making it useless or reworking it entirely. Lifesteal severity likely would be a better thing to take a look at in PVP and consider nerfing than lifesteal chance but both are on the lower end of the priority scale.
Also one very important thing to mention, If both the TR passive + bloodbath bug gets fixed and recovery gets a nerf, TRs will either be toned down reasonably or they will become too weak, its hard to tell for sure which of these things will occur. Its very likely that TRs will need buffs to the overall damage of their encounters and at wills, right now the class is dependent on daily power overuse for most of their damage and if they lose that, they may end up too weak compared to other striker classes. Good news is that fixing these 2 major issues will make it much safer and easier for the devs to preform those kind of buffs.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
I can´t share anyones concern of "weak Tr´s" in PVP, the class has enough tools to switch for the next overpowered or annoying build. No pitty anyway after 5 years of plain dominance through all mods. Even if that class was weak for a period, I don´t feel sorry for a second after that class slaughtered his way through domination for ages, even if some player would poor some tears... let it be, the class still dominates PVE in terms of dps Anyway I can assure that nothing like this will ever happen in this game. Cryptic will not fix anything from interest or make PVP attractive for the majority 110%, they did nothing for >5 years
*honestly the fact that I got to go to PE to buy some PVP potions instead of buying them in the campaign store like i do for any other campaign, tells me a lot.
400k SoD procs on tanks prove that there is a wide gap to be closed and and a small fix for a double dipping buff is not gonna nerf this class to the ground. It´s still gonna be 400k/1.2 at best, lol. Core problems are not only perma-up dailies but also far better survivability (85% deflectseverity with pot) and even if stats/recovery get deminished there are options to refill your daily by encounterpower... Spamming dailes by running 50k+ power leeds to 1. benefits from gear procs and 2. permanent uptime of insignia boni, spending near 3k stats for either deflect, defense and mobility. The absence of CD´s for a daily power in PVP is a problem since a very, very long time, it all started with DC sigil. TR is the class that benefits most from that synergy, by spamming a daily that deals high damage on single targets and it´s a guaranteed crit on top (stealthed) same as spends untouchable on top, leading to a redicules setup. SoD and Opressive Darkness are a nice upgrade. Honestly there is only one option to get this fixed, give dailies a strikt 30 or better 60sec CD in PVP, done.
Hey folks! Just to reiterate what Frozen said, the next mod is past the deadline for new features and M16 is getting there as well. But there are class changes in the works in M15 and we'll be providing detailed info on them.
Hey folks! Just to reiterate what Frozen said, the next mod is past the deadline for new features and M16 is getting there as well. But there are class changes in the works in M15 and we'll be providing detailed info on them.
Just please tell me if the ability to stun someone to death for 10 seconds is still in the game. If that can still happen I would rather know now so I can hang my boots up early.
I have already quit this mod, like the last due to Manticore Mane abuse, as right now PvP is even worse than ever. Queue for 5-10mins, get in a game with 2 TR on both sides. They dont bother going for each other so it just leads to hardly anyone fighting for nodes. The 1st page of the X1 leaderboard is now 70% the same class... whats left are a few pretty overpowered players stunning you to death or a GF running over and doing the old 3 hit combo boring routine.
That is pretty much what PvP is right now, players abusing yet MORE broken items.... stunned and prone stunned and prone stunned and prone stunned and prone.
Way too much damage is being done in PvP, way too much healing is being done by non healing classes, way too many stuns and prones and way too many broken items being abused and pushing away the chance of any new players coming to the game.
Main - Rydia (HR70) - Xbox One Player only Alts : Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Hey folks! Just to reiterate what Frozen said, the next mod is past the deadline for new features and M16 is getting there as well. But there are class changes in the works in M15 and we'll be providing detailed info on them.
Could you make sure to get the patch notes for the Preview Server done on/before the release this time? MOD14 the patch notes became a bit of a disaster as the patches were sometimes 2 updates ahead of what we had details on. Even if this means feedback threads are delayed - I personally and I'm sure many others would much rather know the exact details of the patch, things like the exact SW class changes etc, before we give feedback on what's good/bad about them.
Comments
It did work for several bugged or broken stuff in the past like Lostmauth set.
For example: Petition/Vote to ban PVE gear or setboni in general from PVP, same as drains etc. Some OP´s dish out hard in PVP btw. and those OP´s 1:1 against a GF should win the race these days I think.
Maybe ask some hard hitter like Bullrath or others, you need the correct build to do so.
I think the bigger problem in PVP with paladin are all his bugged loops (SW/GF/GWF) that´s why they stay at campfire in some matches, watching the cealing.
Otherwise the class would be on top, since his buffs are too good in PVP, they turn most scrubs in killing machines and OP would be the next fotm class to blame to be over the top.
Same as GWF would be one a popular class if not that TR was.
As long as that class drops up to 400k SoD on 16k player in PVP this all is completely pointless and a waste of time cryptic.
I attest this company the worst and most unbalanced PVP on this planet with no will and no clue how to handle it
Some of them even don´t know what game they play I guess, same as they never say a word being pulled through content.. like "Thank you"
> Making a petition once was a tool to draw some attention from devs btw., it did work for several bugged or broken stuff in the past like Lostmauth set.
> why is the OPs temp hp is nerfed in pvp? now absolution,binding oath,etc. sucks. the op hits like a girl,slow as a turtle and now the devs took away his only ace card? for christ's sake guys, how do you think OP users would feel when compared to the GF in PVP who one shots other classes? please make NW PVP great again by at least making it fair. iv'e been playing since mod 4 and i still believe in you guys that you could make pvp fair and enjoyable again.
>
> Some OP´s dish out hard in PVP btw. and those OP´s 1:1 against a GF should win the race these days, maybe ask some hard hitter like Bullrath or others. I think the problem in PVP with paladin are all his bugged loops (SW/GF/GWF) otherwise the class would be on top, same as GWF would be one of the best classes if not that TR was.
> ..Also and very important, people shouldn't be able to PvP (or should have their own queue) if they are below 10k. I know that a 17k can destroy a 10.1k easily. But PvP is getting full of 4k/6k people. I don't know what are they, but surely not real players. A normal player reach level 70 with more than 4k and those trashy level 40 items I have seen and you would be suprise if you them (not even counting how slow and robotic they move and brainless they act)...
> /blockquote>
>
> That´s what I also think when entering RAQ or REQ , but those player speak to me and tell me things like: "Öhm, no sry I do this first time" or "Sry I got no mof setup or buffer templock seup, I play this class since short" or "Sry I miss some gear".
> Some of them even don´t know what game they play I guess...
good point
But since M15 would've already been finalised a while back, it's unlikely there'll be major changes. You might want to wait for information on the class balancing coming with M15 and rewrite your post.
I do have a few specifics to bring up.
Before powercreep for stats had advanced this far, the TR passives + bloodbath bug that effects Invisible Infiltrator, Infiltrator's Action, and Razor Action used to be beneficial. This was because it helped TRs compensate for the low damage coming from our encounters and at wills. It also buffed bloodbath's damage by just enough to make it useful for doing damage without giving BB too much damage. There was even speculation from multiple TRs that this bug may have been left in on purpose so the devs wouldn't have to buff certain powers.
Unfortunately, this bug has outlived its beneficial status thanks to all the stats that have been increased since those days. This bug does need to be fixed now as it + the stats is simply too much.
As for all the stat powercreep in PVP, this is my #1 candidate for biggest issue in PVP besides all the broken items so I'm happy to see this get a mention. In my opinion, the most problematic overstackable stats from greatest to least are: Recovery, Deflect, Power, Lifesteal Severity, and Lifesteal.
Recovery and other sources of cooldown reduction is easily the worst and is the most urgent stat issue to address. Here are some of the things recovery powercreep negatively impacts:
This stat's growth over the years is the root cause of just about every problematic aspect of TRs, other than the newer version of SOD.
It also poses a dormant hazard for powers across all classes that may be fine right now but could become a serious issue in the future purely due to recovery continuing to increase.
Recovery along with overpowered items can and has undone several of the dev's class power nerf attempts over the years.
Recovery ensured that the CC diminishing returns system even if implemented well would not have helped in the long run but would have simply been a bandaid that temporarily helped in the short term.
It makes daily powers usable too often as well.
Recovery also has had a strong negative effect on balancing control builds and CC powers in general. When there is too much cooldown reduction available, it becomes much harder for the devs to make a CC power good without it being too powerful. The end result is a lot of watered down nearly useless CC powers and a few overpreforming ones. The watered down builds have to either build for a different role such as damage or tankyness or they have spam their powers constantly to keep up. The classes with stronger CC powers with higher uptimes end up being too powerful because they get both the better CCs and the ability to spam them thanks to all of that recovery.
Historically recovery had a lot to do with DC builds being too powerful as well.
Deflection chance being stackable to 100% is nothing new but it has always posed serious balancing concerns and not just for TRs. 100% deflection chance should not be reachable period, its overpowered in a PVP setting no matter what class you stick it on. I'm unsure exactly what number would be the most balanced max number for deflect in PVP but it definitely should not be able to go higher than 60% through 70%.
Power being left sky high while only recovery and deflection chance get toned down is likely to end up lopsided and result in people stacking even more power than they are already, power likely needs to be scaled down alongside these 2 stats to keep damage vs defensive stats balanced.
Lifesteal severity and lifesteal are not universally overpowered for all classes but can still pose moderate concern for some of them, namely GWFs and SWs. Lifesteal chance is difficult to tone down much further without making it useless or reworking it entirely. Lifesteal severity likely would be a better thing to take a look at in PVP and consider nerfing than lifesteal chance but both are on the lower end of the priority scale.
Also one very important thing to mention, If both the TR passive + bloodbath bug gets fixed and recovery gets a nerf, TRs will either be toned down reasonably or they will become too weak, its hard to tell for sure which of these things will occur. Its very likely that TRs will need buffs to the overall damage of their encounters and at wills, right now the class is dependent on daily power overuse for most of their damage and if they lose that, they may end up too weak compared to other striker classes. Good news is that fixing these 2 major issues will make it much safer and easier for the devs to preform those kind of buffs.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Even if that class was weak for a period, I don´t feel sorry for a second after that class slaughtered his way through domination for ages, even if some player would poor some tears... let it be, the class still dominates PVE in terms of dps
Anyway I can assure that nothing like this will ever happen in this game. Cryptic will not fix anything from interest or make PVP attractive for the majority 110%, they did nothing for >5 years
*honestly the fact that I got to go to PE to buy some PVP potions instead of buying them in the campaign store like i do for any other campaign, tells me a lot.
400k SoD procs on tanks prove that there is a wide gap to be closed and and a small fix for a double dipping buff is not gonna nerf this class to the ground. It´s still gonna be 400k/1.2 at best, lol.
Core problems are not only perma-up dailies but also far better survivability (85% deflectseverity with pot) and even if stats/recovery get deminished there are options to refill your daily by encounterpower...
Spamming dailes by running 50k+ power leeds to 1. benefits from gear procs and 2. permanent uptime of insignia boni, spending near 3k stats for either deflect, defense and mobility.
The absence of CD´s for a daily power in PVP is a problem since a very, very long time, it all started with DC sigil.
TR is the class that benefits most from that synergy, by spamming a daily that deals high damage on single targets and it´s a guaranteed crit on top (stealthed) same as spends untouchable on top, leading to a redicules setup. SoD and Opressive Darkness are a nice upgrade.
Honestly there is only one option to get this fixed, give dailies a strikt 30 or better 60sec CD in PVP, done.
I have already quit this mod, like the last due to Manticore Mane abuse, as right now PvP is even worse than ever. Queue for 5-10mins, get in a game with 2 TR on both sides. They dont bother going for each other so it just leads to hardly anyone fighting for nodes. The 1st page of the X1 leaderboard is now 70% the same class... whats left are a few pretty overpowered players stunning you to death or a GF running over and doing the old 3 hit combo boring routine.
That is pretty much what PvP is right now, players abusing yet MORE broken items.... stunned and prone stunned and prone stunned and prone stunned and prone.
Way too much damage is being done in PvP, way too much healing is being done by non healing classes, way too many stuns and prones and way too many broken items being abused and pushing away the chance of any new players coming to the game.
Alts :
Storm (SW70), Edge (TR70), AD Farm (CW70), Grunt (GF70), Rosa (DC70), AD AD AD (GWF70), Your Mum (OP70)
Member of Q-Snipe
Even if this means feedback threads are delayed - I personally and I'm sure many others would much rather know the exact details of the patch, things like the exact SW class changes etc, before we give feedback on what's good/bad about them.