Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,471 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    armswift said:

    I agree this will not change a thing with botters except increasing the amount of them on at the same time. the number of new bot accounts that will be used to acquire same amount of AD as before. This game is already so Alt unfriendly that this just adds to the number of reasons not to buy new character slots. I also agree if the change in AD refinement has to be done than use a scale to increase the AD that can be refined according to character slots at least do not take away a reason to have alts. This change is Horrible close to ending my 2yrs with the game. Might take a vacation from NW and see if I find another game of interest for awhile. The vacation could possibly turn permanent. Heck if its the zen market that is the true reason for this than make it cash for vip only. Just take out the zen exchange or add a different currency needed for zen exchange. The grind for game currency even as it is now has taken me this long to get my main built up to 14.5k.

    It won't increase the amount of them. It actually will decrease the amount of them.
    Remember, bot does not pay to get extra character slot. They did not and will not.
    Right now, each bot account spend X amount of time to earn 72K daily. Each bot account will spend Y amount of the time to earn 100K. Y > X.
    Their limitation is time and not number of account.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • linoge63
    linoge63 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    As Mordekai said a couple of responses above, even after these changes, their is going to be billions, BILLIONS! of AD stored up on various toons with obviously economy wrecking very potential consequences. In return, there's really only 1 true way to "fix" that problem....... remove the AD from those stockpiles. Best way to do that is simply for Cryptic to remove them. DELETE all AD, game wide. Do a HARD reset, bite the bullet. no half baked ideas, completely wreck the economy, and start over from day 1. Reset the game to the very first day AD was introduced, with their imposed caps, and start over. Problem is, they'd have to do 1 more thing...... Stop the botting. and I mean, STOP the botting on PC. Which could be done. I know a couple of different ways that other MMO's have implemented... which actually worked...but it does require an initial outlay of finances / salary / time to implement. Once done though, you literally COULD prevent bots in your game... period. Number of accts? irrelevant....

    That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....

    I agree 1000 billion %
    Those with all that stored ad can be offered something as compensation that will be more than useful in the new atmosphere of gameplay. Yeah, gameplay...remember that idea? Instead of playing to TRY to climb out of poverty that never occurs unless you open 51 slots and run leadership to max after god only knows how many months, to just play the dang game with enjoyment, we can earn through ONE currency attained through basic gameplay or buy what we want when we want from the zen store itself.
    Post edited by linoge63 on
  • omegarealities#7219
    omegarealities#7219 Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User

    Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.

    Some ideas for items:

    1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house.
    2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space.
    3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots.
    4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc.
    5. Trophy case.

    They could make it so that you don't actually "own" the home. That a landlord of sorts allows you to stay there for a monthly fee...
    We'd have to invent a word for it... lets call it... "RENT"
    And if you get three months behind on your "RENT" the landlord sends round a gang of gorillas, (LITERALLY... those augment babies will grow up one day......) who would kick your degenerate HAMSTER out on the street.
    Or they could ransack a random room and you would have to replace the furniture.

    Also as they change mods, add other items.
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    The thing that's annoying me, almost as much as the proposal itself, is the way some people keep telling other people how they should be playing the game with absolutely no knowledge of that players circumstances, goals, and past game style.

    Can I ask that, before you tell people what they should or shouldn't be doing when they sit down to play, wait for the game's designers to state THEIR version of how people should play the game. Then, by all means yak on about play style, citing the "official" version.

    In fact Cryptic/PWE making some sort of stance on this matter might go some way to avoiding players who think that its okay to earn "More AD, and faster" from Random Queues... If they'd explained that taking advantage of the "more AD and faster" model actually meant "dirty exploit" instead of using "more and faster" as an actual beneficial feature, we might have been less confused.

    How about if the daily cap remains per character, but the individual cap is slashed to say, 20k per day?
    You know... share the burden of repairing the economy, rather than unbalancing it in favour of two toon players who seem to know more about the acquisition of rAD than those who are able to do better at it than they seem to be. Cos that way EVERYONE could focus on earning actual AD instead of just rough.

  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    vordayn said:

    But as stated by previous posters, the cost of Zen Store and Wondrous Bazaar items (e.g. wards, marks) will be unaffected. Thus the value of AD relative to these items will not be improved (i.e. you won't be able to buy more of them)...The value of Zen will be increased, as it will purchase the same number of AD, which will require greater time to attain.

    Regarding the Zen Store -
    That's assuming people are willing to continue trading the same amount of AD for 1 Zen that they do now. And also depends on whether we're talking console or pc. PC's exchange is totally broken. It's basically a vending machine at this point, and frankly, I think it's beyond repair, but it'll be interesting to see if these new changes have any effect.

    I'm thinking about the PS4 exchange here since that's what I'm familiar with, but:

    A: Brand Spanking new players will nearly always give top price for Zen since few of them are familiar with the exchange.
    B: Younger players will pay top price 'cause - well, you know why.
    C: But aren't long time players with a modicum of sense more likely to hoard their AD and wait for more favorable exchange rates?
    True, I hadn't thought of that. On PC the ZAX has not dropped below 500:1 in such a long time that I forgot the implications of this. My bad. If the ratio drops below this level, you are correct in saying that AD will purchase relatively more Zen items. That is an interesting proposition. The value of AD (to Zen) then will be in direct inverse proportion to the difference in the future ZAX rate to the current rate (i.e. if the ZAX rate is halved, then the value of AD will be doubled for Zen store items).

    A fluctuating ZAX will encourage speculation. If we make the assumption that there are AD hoarders, which is likely in an MMO over time, then they will be controlling the market. Newer players that do not play the long game, or indeed have spare AD to tie up in ZAX, will be 'priced out' of this. It will require a lot of deflation to see this happening on PC, but it is theoretically possible.

    What is the ZAX on PS4 at the moment? And how has it fluctuated in the past few months?
    Post edited by vordayn on
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  • fogcrow
    fogcrow Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    faredawg1 said:

    fogcrow said:

    So many people claiming it will be impossible to generate income in order to advance, but forgetting/ignoring that there are two sources of AD:
    1. New AD through refining rAD
    2. Finding/creating stuff desired by other players, and selling it to them, using the auction house or otherwise.

    I think it will be good for the game if ppl will do more of 2. and less of 1.

    The only thing people truly want in this game are Coal and Pres Wards, Keys, Upgrade requirements from the Baazar, Mounts, Companions, Bags and Banks space. Nothing else has any value. Players can't make those, but they are ESSENTIAL to playing this game. The prices of these items are not going down. The Drop Rate for these items are not being raised. The Demand is not only the same, it's higher than its ever been, that's why people are refining so much. The supply is choked. Most smart people save up for the event weekends to purchase these items to later sell on the AH for profit.

    If these Devs truly cared about the AD vaule, they could end this all in a few weeks. Increase drops rates on all valuabe drops, like Ulitmates. Include Gem Drops up to R12 istead of R9. Sell Orange Mounts on the Zen Store. Cut all Bazaar prices and upgrade Runestone requirements by half. That would end it quickly.

    We only grind because we are chasing the Item Level and specific items to be proficent in the New Content. If this change won't effect you, you have either already attained IL 16K+, or you are not chasing it. If you are NOT chasing IL 16K+, you're just playing for "fun and chats" or whatever, you won't understand or care, because for whatever reason, you are not trying to be your best in this game.

    But for those of us constantly chasing the upper echelon of item Level and specific gear, who haven't reached that level yet, this is devastating. It drains any hope we once had of reaching our goals. It says the Devs don't want us to reach them. It really says we were stupid to ever play t his game andf devote such enourmous time, money and any combination of the two to this game who doesn't want us and continues to do everything it can get away with to attack us directly, preventing us from reaching our goal.

    You want to cut our wages but not our rent and utilities, fine. But don't lie to us and say its for our own benefit. I believe your statistical numbers are skewed. Perhaps only 3-5% of players refine over 100K a day because only 8% of your total player source numbers actually play the game with any reasonable sense of regularity. Perhaps this 3-5% turns out to be 50,000 acutal players, and the other 95-97% represent any Character that was EVER created in this game since Beta. Who knows? But you are wrong. Wrong in this decision, wrong in blaming those who put in hours of grinding to TRY and succeed at your game without spending thousands of doallars, and offensivly wrong in telling us this poison you are shoving down our throats is cake and ice cream. It's poison. And if everyone takes a bite, it will kill this game.

    Ok, I´ll give a few examples: Upgrade requirements...the bazaar isn´t the only source. When I run Dread Ring lairs, which is less often than I should, because I have a low tolerance for repetition/grind, I often find myself amazed by how good the droprates for thouse purple enchanting stones actually are, and also how good the droprate for gmops and smops form the arcane coffer or whatever its called is, using purple gauntlets of course.
    I also get gmops from the leadership profession(the chests we get for "guard yound noble on a trip" f.e.), that droprate is painfully low, but still much appreciated.(maybe I shouldn´t have posted that in this thread xD)

    The step of unlocking masterwork mailsmithing rank2 -> rank 3 consumes, among other thing, no less than 80 "shark oil". there are other profession tasks consumeing it that a mastercrafter of said professions never stops repeating. Shark oil can be bought at the traveling merchant(girl standing next the artisan in any lvl 10 Stronghold or higher iirc). It costs 250 guild marks, and sold, last time I checked, for 3300AD each.

    Now about Item Level: Indeed I´m not pursueing IL, I´m pursueing improvement. My latest acqusition is the "ring of offensive action" (farmed by whacking thayans in Omu every hour till they drop lich lore), it replaced a mechanically inferior ring that had way higher IL.
    Neither of my two mains is 16k+ IL, but I´m perfectly content with that because I can do my part in a party performing an overkill of the games hardest content, and rarely have trouble to form or join a party to do just that.

    To a point I agree with you: not on all of your examples, but on the fact that the value of AD could, and should, be improved by increasing the droprates of items currently too expensive on the auction house.

  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    As Mordekai said a couple of responses above, even after these changes, their is going to be billions, BILLIONS! of AD stored up on various toons with obviously economy wrecking very potential consequences. In return, there's really only 1 true way to "fix" that problem....... remove the AD from those stockpiles. Best way to do that is simply for Cryptic to remove them. DELETE all AD, game wide. Do a HARD reset, bite the bullet. no half baked ideas, completely wreck the economy, and start over from day 1. Reset the game to the very first day AD was introduced, with their imposed caps, and start over. Problem is, they'd have to do 1 more thing...... Stop the botting. and I mean, STOP the botting on PC. Which could be done. I know a couple of different ways that other MMO's have implemented... which actually worked...but it does require an initial outlay of finances / salary / time to implement. Once done though, you literally COULD prevent bots in your game... period. Number of accts? irrelevant....

    That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....

    Agree with stopping the botting.

    Disagree with the rest. Logically this is a landmine. Consider the following:

    - What about accounts which have hoarded Zen? They will just convert to AD when needed.
    - So do they then nuke Zen out of existence too?
    - Or what about AD which was bought by Zen?
    - What would stop them from doing it again if they did it the first time? Where are the assurances for your hard work/time going forward?

    Nuking all current AD, and by extension anyone who bought AD with Zen, would be tantamount to stealing said Zen for those who paid for it, and opens them up to enormous liability.
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  • castaspela
    castaspela Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    cryptic, if you want cap 100k diamond per day, you need lower all system prices for example smop cost 100k you need lower it 5 times at least. If a lefgendary mount cost 12 millon, you need 1 year farm diamond to buy it? this is a bad move.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018


    But first get rid of the free salvage events like the one running RIGHT NOW on XB, in the middle of a debate into why there are too many ADs in the game...

    LOL! Is that really happening? What is going on with internal communications right now!? I am dumfounded. So contradiction. Much confusion.


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  • oria1
    oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    Because I see it mentioned often by a lot of people....

    I dont think that anyone with multiple chars (specially the 50+ accounts as many mention) can even do 10 chars a day, let alone 50. We are talking here btw for every day, of every week, of every month.

    Just think about it.

    The 3 man will take an average of 7-12 min, depending on which dungeon you get. Yes, some runs can be done in 5 and others will be done in 20 when you wait for the occasional bot or player that explores and wonders the dungeon.

    50 runs with 9 minutes average time, would require 450 minutes not counting the log in-log out times, refine times etc. That is 7 hours and 30 minutes NON STOP playing and it covers only the 3 man dungeon that gives 9-13k ad (if you have VIP or not), on 50 chars. Now we only covered 1/3rd of the maximum rough AD one could accumulate per char.

    Skirmishes can be even worse. But for this not to take long I will assume that its the same time and so another 7.5 hours, and we are at 15 hours already and still refined only 18-26/36k. Add the epic dungeon? I don't think anyone has those unlocked on 50 chars...

    As you can see is practically impossible for a human being to play 16h+ non stop, everyday of every week, of every month.

    Now if we are talking about bots, its easy I think to scan, who is queuing 100 times a day and completing 100 times a day, every day, 3man and skirmishes and do what is necessary to them.

    So there is no real point into making the RQ to give reward once per account which is more important to me even than the 100k limit. Unless... this wasn't the point...






  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    vordayn said:


    2. There is no good way to transfer AD between account. The good old fashion way is through AH but there is a 10% cut and also taking a risk of being banned.

    There is also trading goods with inherent value that is not diminished by transferring. These include items which are commonly used in the bartering system : Marks of Potency (e.g. that used in hunts, which conveniently bypass the AH 10% 'AD sink'). Using these items, value can be transferred between VIIP 12 accounts with no loss (this will require VIP 12 to be effective).

    The more than Cryptic encourages the use of the AH to transfer items, the more that AD can be removed from the economy. Interestingly, making items bound is counterproductive to this, but is productive in other ways by 'tying up' AD to characters/accounts.
    The person I replied to was talking transfering AD from an alt account to the main account. Not GMOP or anything else but AD.
    There is no point to move GMOP from alt account to main account (unless the main account does need GMOP) anyway. I don't expect any alt account will have VIP 12 to buy GMOP and transfer over. If it is not about transferring AD from alt account to main account, the most cost effective way is to use the alt account to buy whatever the main account needs and transfer over. There is no good reason to transfer any item using AH (instead of mail) except it means for transferring AD.

    Yep I think we're talking about the same thing. The GMOP I used as an example. GMOPs are always available on the AH and never sold for much less than the WB value with the VIP discount and inclusive of the AH cut. So your main doesn't necessarily have to need it, they just have to sell (or exchange) it for the correct value.

    Anyway, I agree - using any unbound item which retains value is the most efficient way of transferring between accounts.
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  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,471 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    vordayn said:


    But first get rid of the free salvage events like the one running RIGHT NOW on XB, in the middle of a debate into why there are too many ADs in the game...

    LOL! Is that really happening? What is going on with internal communications right now!? I am dumfounded. So contradiction. Much confusion.


    He was talking about 2xseal. Not exactly a free salvage event. I don't even what 'free salvage event' means. As far as I know there is no fee for salvaging.

    If Cryptic cancels something that is already in calendar, there will be another uproar for people who are expecting that. I know I would. So, don't cancel the PC's in the week of May 31 and in the week of June 7.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User

    Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.

    Some ideas for items:

    1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house.
    2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space.
    3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots.
    4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc.
    5. Trophy case.

    This is a perfect idea for an AD sink! Player instanced housing is possible; they already have the ability of the foundry to make customisable instances.

    They just need to set aside more HD space to make these instances semi-permanent, like Strongholds, but you can set access to a certain number of people, or even set your house public which would allow a set number of total people at a given time (e.g. 5 for a small house, 10 for a medium house and 20 for a mansion).
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.

    Some ideas for items:

    1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house.
    2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space.
    3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots.
    4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc.
    5. Trophy case.

    They could make it so that you don't actually "own" the home. That a landlord of sorts allows you to stay there for a monthly fee...
    We'd have to invent a word for it... lets call it... "RENT"
    And if you get three months behind on your "RENT" the landlord sends round a gang of gorillas, (LITERALLY... those augment babies will grow up one day......) who would kick your degenerate HAMSTER out on the street.
    This landlord will set up direct withdraw. If your account does not have enough AD, they will trash one fireplace/chandeliers/chair for the equivalent value of the rent + bully fee. In the end, they just burn down your house. The house will be burning forever until you pay the 'fire off' fee.
    Perfect example of an AD sink. Rent! Haha.
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    ... when I run Cradle and Tong, everything that drops, other than refinement that I use, is account bound and must be salvaged, except for an occasional tchotchke like a sleigh mount, that I could sell for a few thousand AD, if those items don't also happen to be bound. I would hit that 100k per day AD refinement cap in no time, running the end game stuff just for salvage.

    Players should absolutely be rewarded for putting more time and effort into the game. That's how every game that I've ever played works. The more you play, the better you will be and the further ahead you will be.

    They could replace some salvage in end-game dungeons with RP. Not completely, as you'd still want to reach the 100k per day AD refinement with some left over for days that you don't grind. But at least it wouldn't lead to a chokehold in absolute progression.

    Or maybe they could just attach RP value to salvageable items? Maybe at a rate of 1RP:2AD (approximate averaged equivalent AH market rate).
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  • spelldazer
    spelldazer Member Posts: 314 Arc User
    I was going to write a long piece about why the mod14 changes are silly, disproportionate and will ultimately backfire but I just can't find the energy because I know it doesn't matter what we say or what we suggest. There is only one thing to do now and that is prepare for the inevitable changes, as with #coalgate and #keygate etc. We are constantly treated to sleazy sales tactics and while I would agree the current methods for generating AD could use a cap, the complete and utter reversal of all the good changes this game has introduced since boot n loot leaves me wondering just how badly is the game losing active players. It's no secret the game has a retention problem.
    I have a completely different reading of the problem of excess AD and it has to do with game psychology and player fatigue, coupled the real issue of strongholds and masterworks -- the most severe form of ad sinks -- simply no longer doing their job. If anything, they do the opposite.
    But I'm in no mood to explain what the devs already know and may well indeed be dictated from above anyhow.
    So I will just leave this here:
    "This planet has - or rather had - a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
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  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD via ZAX indeed accounts for a substantial amount of wards purchased, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, (which theoretically should improve the ZAX rate).

    One major thing though: Will this lead to an increase or a decrease in profit for the company? Maybe, but uncertain to tell for sure. A lot of what we suppose might happen is determined by human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. Will players spend less on the Zen store because of this change? Yes. But - this may only be from that Zen obtained from the ZAX, and not necessarily from Zen purchased, especially if AD will be harder to come by from Mod 14 onwards, and only as long as the ZAX does not drop!

    One way to evaluate for effect would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs, that is: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.

    Addendum: No, this poses a problem. This would only work currently on the PC, where the ZAX is backlogged, and the rate at 1:500. On consoles this is different, and is currently not backlogged. If the ZAX rate were to drop, then purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD-converted-to-Zen from the ZS would be cheaper than purchasing from the WB (if the price of the wards remained constant in both shops), and would increase demand for Zen again! The only way it would make sense is if the ZAX remained at a constant 1:500 (or if the items on the WB/ZS were pegged to each other based on the ZAX rate)! Considering the ZAX can be gamed by the AD/Zen rich, this could pose considerable problems to the less wealthy. For PC it still makes sense, but a trial period to see if deflation would occur would be necessary; it might be still useful as a temporary AD-sink. For platforms with ZAX below the 1:500 capped rate, and if the Coal/Pres wards are both set at an equivalent value of 1 Zen to 500 AD, then it may increase the ZAX to 1:500 which would be disastrous for them! If it is only done for the PC, then the consoles will complain. This would be a mess. In fact, anything with significant 'driving-value' that could be purchasable on both the ZS and WB could have this effect! :D
    Post edited by vordayn on
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  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,471 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    vordayn said:

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If this indeed accounts for a substantial amount of AD, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, which theoretically should improve the ZAX.

    One major thing though, is there any way this could lead to profit or a decrease in profit? I don't know. A lot of what we suppose might happen due to any change will be due to human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. One way to evaluate for effect however, would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.
    Many people and I suggested moving wards from Zen store to Wondrous Bazaar (AD store) and not adding to Wondrous Bazaar alone.

    That gives incentive for AD holder to buy from AD store (AD sink) and cash player incentive to trade Zen for AD (better Zax condition). I don't exactly agree people getting Zen mainly because of wards. I am not one of those. However, I don't dispute a lot of people do. Anyway, that should relieve some pressure from Zax.

    Another thought: keep C ward in Zen store and move p-ward to AD store or vice versa.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • frogwalloper#6494
    frogwalloper#6494 Member Posts: 821 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    vordayn said:

    What is the ZAX on PS4 at the moment? And how has it fluctuated in the past few months?

    At this precise moment, Top Zen Listings looks like:
    Available
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    29,000..............478
    31,000..............479
    35,000..............480
    11,500..............481
    ..1,000..............482

    Top Zen Purchase Requests looks like:
    Requested.......Offered
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    .......36..............476
    .....100..............475
    32,500..............474
    ..9,200..............473
    15,200..............472

    It can go as low as 465 and as high as 480 in the course of a day. It started climbing past 60 since late April. From March to April lows were high 30s - low 40s, and the lowest I saw was 432. And before that I wasn't spending much time in the exchange, so I don't have any records. But around January, maybe December, it was trading a little less than 400. So you could say that the inflation of AD has risen at a rate of a bit more than 10 AD each month. And if this continues, PS4 could reach the cap by summer's end.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    vordayn said:

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If this indeed accounts for a substantial amount of AD, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, which theoretically should improve the ZAX.

    One major thing though, is there any way this could lead to profit or a decrease in profit? I don't know. A lot of what we suppose might happen due to any change will be due to human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. One way to evaluate for effect however, would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.
    Many people and I suggested moving wards from Zen store to Wondrous Bazaar (AD store) and not adding to Wondrous Bazaar alone.

    That gives incentive for AD holder to buy from AD store (AD sink) and cash player incentive to trade Zen for AD (better Zax condition). I don't exactly agree people getting Zen mainly because of wards. I am not one of those. However, I don't dispute a lot of people do. Anyway, that should relieve some pressure from Zax.

    Another thought: keep C ward in Zen store and move p-ward to AD store or vice versa.
    Yes, keeping it in both stores would be problematic (see my post directly above).

    OK, so moving C/P wards to the WB will definitely increase AD demand and reduce Zen demand. What would happen to the ZAX? Would it then drop towards 1:100 as the value of AD increases relative to Zen? If the ZAX were to drop, paying Zen for AD would then become a more costly proposition than grinding for AD. I think it would shift human motivation to grind, and therefore decrease company profits as fewer people would buy Zen for this purpose ...
    Post edited by vordayn on
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  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    vordayn said:


    But first get rid of the free salvage events like the one running RIGHT NOW on XB, in the middle of a debate into why there are too many ADs in the game...

    LOL! Is that really happening? What is going on with internal communications right now!? I am dumfounded. So contradiction. Much confusion.


    it's not really a problem on xbox. there is volatility in the market we are not capped. yes the prices are currently high but not capped. it's been about 390-408 for the last four months. before that it was in the 360's probably due to winterfest. this current event has not raised the zax significantly.
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD via ZAX indeed accounts for a substantial amount of wards purchased, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, (which theoretically should improve the ZAX rate).

    One major thing though: Will this lead to an increase or a decrease in profit for the company? Maybe, but uncertain to tell for sure. A lot of what we suppose might happen is determined by human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. Will players spend less on the Zen store because of this change? Yes. But - this may only be from that Zen obtained from the ZAX, and not necessarily from Zen purchased, especially if AD will be harder to come by from Mod 14 onwards, and only as long as the ZAX does not drop!

    One way to evaluate for effect would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs, that is: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.

    Addendum: No, this poses a problem. This would only work currently on the PC, where the ZAX is backlogged, and the rate at 1:500. On consoles this is different, and is currently not backlogged. If the ZAX rate were to drop, then purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD converted to Zen from the ZS would be cheaper than purchasing from the WB, if the price of the wards remained constant in both shops; this would increase demand for Zen again! The only way it would make sense if the ZAX remained at a constant 1:500 (or if the items on the WB/ZS were pegged to each other based on the ZAX rate)! Considering the ZAX can be gamed by the AD/Zen rich, this could pose considerable problems to the less wealthy. For PC it still makes sense, but a trial period to see if deflation would occur would be necessary; it might be still useful as a temporary AD-sink. For platforms with ZAX below the 1:500 capped rate, and if the Coal/Pres wards are both set at an equivalent value of 1 Zen to 500 AD, then it may increase the ZAX to 1:500 which would be disastrous for them! If it is only done for the PC, then the consoles will complain. This would be a mess. In fact, anything with significant 'driving-value' that could be purchasable on both the ZS and WB could have this effect! :D
    I really think that they should treat pc as a different animal at times. there are some things that really should be case by case across the three platforms. this is one of them. offering them in both locations would work for both pc and console though. if they are just ridiculously expensive on console in wb we'd buy them via the zen market still and vs versa. on pc it would be a great ad sink.
  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    vordayn said:

    What is the ZAX on PS4 at the moment? And how has it fluctuated in the past few months?

    At this precise moment, Top Zen Listings looks like:
    Available
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    29,000..............478
    31,000..............479
    35,000..............480
    11,500..............481
    ..1,000..............482

    Top Zen Purchase Requests looks like:
    Requested.......Offered
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    .......36..............476
    .....100..............475
    32,500..............474
    ..9,200..............473
    15,200..............472

    It can go as low as 465 and as high as 480 in the course of a day. It started climbing past 60 since late April. From March to April lows were high 30s - low 40s, and the lowest I saw was 432. And before that I wasn't spending much time in the exchange, so I don't have any records. But around January, maybe December, it was trading a little less than 400. So you could say that the inflation of AD has risen at a rate of a bit more than 10 AD each month. And if this continues, PS4 could reach the cap by summer's end.
    Thanks for providing that info.

    Hmm, that was what it was like on PC about 1.5 years ago IIRC? NWO PC was released June 20 2013, Xbox released March 31 2015, PS4 July 19 2016. If gradual AD inflation on any platform is a surety, then it might just be a matter of time. What am I saying? It is a matter of time, if that was what was implied to us by @noworries#8859. However, PC had some unfortunate incidents with AD generation in the past (i.e. exploits), a fraction of which was rolled back, and PC still probably has more problems with botters. So PS4 might not exactly parallel the PC ZAX trend.
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  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    lul, 16 pages about zen and economy, one about the new dungeon :)
    Maybe cap the AD at 100k but reward player, who are patient enough to test and report about your new mod with free AD on top.
    Looks like this game is more about economy then enjoyable content.
  • chidion
    chidion Member Posts: 422 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    oria1 said:

    Because I see it mentioned often by a lot of people....

    I dont think that anyone with multiple chars (specially the 50+ accounts as many mention) can even do 10 chars a day, let alone 50. We are talking here btw for every day, of every week, of every month.

    Just think about it.

    The 3 man will take an average of 7-12 min, depending on which dungeon you get. Yes, some runs can be done in 5 and others will be done in 20 when you wait for the occasional bot or player that explores and wonders the dungeon.

    50 runs with 9 minutes average time, would require 450 minutes not counting the log in-log out times, refine times etc. That is 7 hours and 30 minutes NON STOP playing and it covers only the 3 man dungeon that gives 9-13k ad (if you have VIP or not), on 50 chars. Now we only covered 1/3rd of the maximum rough AD one could accumulate per char.

    Skirmishes can be even worse. But for this not to take long I will assume that its the same time and so another 7.5 hours, and we are at 15 hours already and still refined only 18-26/36k. Add the epic dungeon? I don't think anyone has those unlocked on 50 chars...

    As you can see is practically impossible for a human being to play 16h+ non stop, everyday of every week, of every month.

    Now if we are talking about bots, its easy I think to scan, who is queuing 100 times a day and completing 100 times a day, every day, 3man and skirmishes and do what is necessary to them.

    So there is no real point into making the RQ to give reward once per account which is more important to me even than the 100k limit. Unless... this wasn't the point...

    Some players with multiple accounts, particularly those who are only interesting in running dungeons for AD's, will try to run as many of their characters through random content as quickly as possible to maximize their AD intake, the more characters they manage to run the greater their AD increase... this need not exclusively apply to players with 50+ accounts because regardless of whether a player had 5 accounts or 50 the quicker they can run a character through random content and repeat, the more AD's they accumulate

    Not every player with multiple accounts, but a few of the more notorious ones, tend to resent and bad mouth anyone and anything that tends to inhibit their ability to earn as many astral diamonds as they can running their multiple characters...

    Some newer, low level and not primarily interested in running content solely for the purpose of accumulating AD players, tend to resent players speeding through dungeon content either killing all the mobs on their own or ignoring mobs for slower players to contend with, on a few occasions we've even had some players complain that they were kicked out of instances because other members of their party objected to their personal play-style...

    For those reasons, along with the attempt to stabilize the Neverwinter economy, I personally approve of the changes to the acquisition of astral diamonds particularly as it pertains to random dungeon and skirmish queues.

    My 2¢

    **Another down side which I recently discovered is mob dropped items seem to disappear before some slower players can even get to them when a slower dungeon player is teamed with a super fast runner, but that's probably a little far afield for this topic.

  • vordayn
    vordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    vordayn said:

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD via ZAX indeed accounts for a substantial amount of wards purchased, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, (which theoretically should improve the ZAX rate).

    One major thing though: Will this lead to an increase or a decrease in profit for the company? Maybe, but uncertain to tell for sure. A lot of what we suppose might happen is determined by human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. Will players spend less on the Zen store because of this change? Yes. But - this may only be from that Zen obtained from the ZAX, and not necessarily from Zen purchased, especially if AD will be harder to come by from Mod 14 onwards, and only as long as the ZAX does not drop!

    One way to evaluate for effect would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs, that is: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.

    Addendum: No, this poses a problem. This would only work currently on the PC, where the ZAX is backlogged, and the rate at 1:500. On consoles this is different, and is currently not backlogged. If the ZAX rate were to drop, then purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD converted to Zen from the ZS would be cheaper than purchasing from the WB, if the price of the wards remained constant in both shops; this would increase demand for Zen again! The only way it would make sense if the ZAX remained at a constant 1:500 (or if the items on the WB/ZS were pegged to each other based on the ZAX rate)! Considering the ZAX can be gamed by the AD/Zen rich, this could pose considerable problems to the less wealthy. For PC it still makes sense, but a trial period to see if deflation would occur would be necessary; it might be still useful as a temporary AD-sink. For platforms with ZAX below the 1:500 capped rate, and if the Coal/Pres wards are both set at an equivalent value of 1 Zen to 500 AD, then it may increase the ZAX to 1:500 which would be disastrous for them! If it is only done for the PC, then the consoles will complain. This would be a mess. In fact, anything with significant 'driving-value' that could be purchasable on both the ZS and WB could have this effect! :D
    I really think that they should treat pc as a different animal at times. there are some things that really should be case by case across the three platforms. this is one of them. offering them in both locations would work for both pc and console though. if they are just ridiculously expensive on console in wb we'd buy them via the zen market still and vs versa. on pc it would be a great ad sink.
    Yep, it could still be sold on both the ZS and WB if it were more expensive in the WB. But by how much?

    On PC: Coal wards are selling on the AH for 564k. The prices for C/P wards on the AH are dictated by the difficulty of obtaining Zen from ZAX, frequency of invoke coupons, Zen sales, item Zen cost and the players' perceived value of time.

    On Xbox currently (if the ZAX is around 1:408) I would hazard a guess that the current Coal ward selling price on the Xbox AH is between 390-410k?

    If a Coal ward were to be sold on the WB and ZS, the price would still be determined by the factors above. I'd buy it from the WB if it were less than the AH amount. If they set a Coal ward for 750k AD on the PC wondrous bazaar, this would be around 562.5k AD after VIP 12 discounts, still more attractive than the current AH prices. But if the price on the WB were still more expensive than that bought from the Zen store using the above methods, it will still drive desire for Zen via AD by speculators. To make speculation less attractive, the WB price must be less than the Zen store price (after discounts and including AH cuts), but then this would definitely shift buying towards the WB. Maybe speculation is the problem here.

    You are right though. The platforms are different beasts.
    Post edited by vordayn on
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  • plasticbat
    plasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 10,471 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    Forgive me for not reading through 16 pages. If what I say has already been said, again, I apologize.

    If you want to remove AD from the economy might I suggest adding Coalescent and Preservation wards to the Wondrous Bazaar for an equivalent price? Doing this would remove an enormous amount of AD from the economy and further increase a reason to convert Zen into AD which would drive the ZAX rate down drastically. I believe this would increase the value of AD while not reducing the value of Zen. Persons who wished to earn their wards in game could do so over a period of time, while those who wish to purchase wards instantly could do so with cash. If there is a flaw in my thought process feel free to point it out.

    I tried to think of a flaw, but could not. I have pondered this too, and my knee jerk reaction was, "but then people would not purchase these in the Zen store". But looking at it objectively, a major reason for people exchanging AD to Zen would be for Coal and Pres wards. I'm pretty sure Cryptic has the data on which items are most purchased, by which account, and whether that account paid Zen or exchanged AD for it.

    If purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD via ZAX indeed accounts for a substantial amount of wards purchased, then placing it on the Wondrous Bazaar will have two-fold benefits: 1) Acting as an actual AD sink (the AD is removed from the game, not just exchanged hands), and 2) Reducing demand for Zen, (which theoretically should improve the ZAX rate).

    One major thing though: Will this lead to an increase or a decrease in profit for the company? Maybe, but uncertain to tell for sure. A lot of what we suppose might happen is determined by human motivation, and this is a very hard to predict. Will players spend less on the Zen store because of this change? Yes. But - this may only be from that Zen obtained from the ZAX, and not necessarily from Zen purchased, especially if AD will be harder to come by from Mod 14 onwards, and only as long as the ZAX does not drop!

    One way to evaluate for effect would be to introduce Coal and Pres wards on the Wondrous Bazaar for a limited time (must broadcast in advance!) to test it and to see whether it actually fulfils the needs currently stipulated by the devs, that is: 1) AD deflation 2) Improved ZAX rate 3) Improved value of AD.

    Addendum: No, this poses a problem. This would only work currently on the PC, where the ZAX is backlogged, and the rate at 1:500. On consoles this is different, and is currently not backlogged. If the ZAX rate were to drop, then purchasing Coal/Pres wards with AD converted to Zen from the ZS would be cheaper than purchasing from the WB, if the price of the wards remained constant in both shops; this would increase demand for Zen again! The only way it would make sense if the ZAX remained at a constant 1:500 (or if the items on the WB/ZS were pegged to each other based on the ZAX rate)! Considering the ZAX can be gamed by the AD/Zen rich, this could pose considerable problems to the less wealthy. For PC it still makes sense, but a trial period to see if deflation would occur would be necessary; it might be still useful as a temporary AD-sink. For platforms with ZAX below the 1:500 capped rate, and if the Coal/Pres wards are both set at an equivalent value of 1 Zen to 500 AD, then it may increase the ZAX to 1:500 which would be disastrous for them! If it is only done for the PC, then the consoles will complain. This would be a mess. In fact, anything with significant 'driving-value' that could be purchasable on both the ZS and WB could have this effect! :D
    I really think that they should treat pc as a different animal at times. there are some things that really should be case by case across the three platforms. this is one of them. offering them in both locations would work for both pc and console though. if they are just ridiculously expensive on console in wb we'd buy them via the zen market still and vs versa. on pc it would be a great ad sink.
    Yep, it could still be sold on both the ZS and WB if it were more expensive in the WB. But by how much?

    On PC: Coal wards are selling on the AH for 564k. The prices for C/P wards on the AH are dictated by the difficulty of obtaining Zen from ZAX, frequency of invoke coupons, Zen sales, item Zen cost and the players' perceived value of time.

    On Xbox currently (if the ZAX is around 1:408) I would hazard a guess that the current Coal ward selling price on the Xbox AH is between 390-410k?

    If a Coal ward were to be sold on the WB and ZS, the price would still be determined by the factors above. I'd buy it from the WB if it were less than the AH amount. If they set a Coal ward for 750k AD on the PC wondrous bazaar, this would be around 562.5k AD after VIP 12 discounts, still more attractive than the current AH prices. If they set it at a flat 700k AD, this will be 525k AD after VIP 12 discounts, and hence diminish speculatory buying and selling from the ZAX/AH.

    You are right though. The platforms are different beasts.
    Then, you also need to factor in:
    1. 15% off coupon for Zen store
    2. 25% off for WB from VIP
    3. WB sales once a while
    4. Zen store sales once a long while.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • thefiresidecat
    thefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    oria1 said:

    Because I see it mentioned often by a lot of people....

    I dont think that anyone with multiple chars (specially the 50+ accounts as many mention) can even do 10 chars a day, let alone 50. We are talking here btw for every day, of every week, of every month.

    Just think about it.

    The 3 man will take an average of 7-12 min, depending on which dungeon you get. Yes, some runs can be done in 5 and others will be done in 20 when you wait for the occasional bot or player that explores and wonders the dungeon.

    50 runs with 9 minutes average time, would require 450 minutes not counting the log in-log out times, refine times etc. That is 7 hours and 30 minutes NON STOP playing and it covers only the 3 man dungeon that gives 9-13k ad (if you have VIP or not), on 50 chars. Now we only covered 1/3rd of the maximum rough AD one could accumulate per char.

    Skirmishes can be even worse. But for this not to take long I will assume that its the same time and so another 7.5 hours, and we are at 15 hours already and still refined only 18-26/36k. Add the epic dungeon? I don't think anyone has those unlocked on 50 chars...

    As you can see is practically impossible for a human being to play 16h+ non stop, everyday of every week, of every month.

    Now if we are talking about bots, its easy I think to scan, who is queuing 100 times a day and completing 100 times a day, every day, 3man and skirmishes and do what is necessary to them.

    So there is no real point into making the RQ to give reward once per account which is more important to me even than the 100k limit. Unless... this wasn't the point...


    one of the devs said this wasn't an antibotting thing. I'm not sure why it isn't. bots are a serious problem on pc. surely there has to be some way to tell suspicious behavior and punish it.
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    What is the ZAX on PS4 at the moment? And how has it fluctuated in the past few months?

    At this precise moment, Top Zen Listings looks like:
    Available
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    29,000..............478
    31,000..............479
    35,000..............480
    11,500..............481
    ..1,000..............482

    Top Zen Purchase Requests looks like:
    Requested.......Offered
    Quantity.........Unit Price
    .......36..............476
    .....100..............475
    32,500..............474
    ..9,200..............473
    15,200..............472

    It can go as low as 465 and as high as 480 in the course of a day. It started climbing past 60 since late April. From March to April lows were high 30s - low 40s, and the lowest I saw was 432. And before that I wasn't spending much time in the exchange, so I don't have any records. But around January, maybe December, it was trading a little less than 400. So you could say that the inflation of AD has risen at a rate of a bit more than 10 AD each month. And if this continues, PS4 could reach the cap by summer's end.
    Thanks for providing that info.

    Hmm, that was what it was like on PC about 1.5 years ago IIRC? NWO PC was released June 20 2013, Xbox released March 31 2015, PS4 July 19 2016. If gradual AD inflation on any platform is a surety, then it might just be a matter of time. What am I saying? It is a matter of time, if that was what was implied to us by @noworries#8859. However, PC had some unfortunate incidents with AD generation in the past (i.e. exploits), a fraction of which was rolled back, and PC still probably has more problems with botters. So PS4 might not exactly parallel the PC ZAX trend.

    this game was released on ps4 about a year and a half after xbox and the pc is about to touch 500. xbox is not.

    it's more intricate than just gradual inflation. pc has botters. ps4 has something akin to a mafia. kinda the same. xbox not so much.
This discussion has been closed.