Working class? So HAMSTER anyone who is older on retirement, sick and can't work, younger kids who have all the free time in the world just because you "work"? Just because you play casually you expect every player to follow your lead? Selfish comment.
This change will hurt the players who actually play the game for more than an hour or two a day. The players who are dedicated enough to play the game 6+ hours a day are more than likely the ones who willing to spend money on events than the casual player.
I don't care how anyone plays this game but your opinion of "HAMSTER the diehard players just cater to us casual players" is incredibly selfish and will be the downfall of this game if the devs follow.
Currently, the 'diehard' players are farming 50+ low tier dungeons a day to create a massive influx of AD for very minimal effort. Sorry, but that's not gaming. That's not dedication. That's grinding because you have nothing better to do, and you shouldn't be rewarded simply for having more free time to suck up server resources. If you want AD, play endgame content and sell on the AH. The current pattern equates to fewer players geared and capable of endgame content because it's easier and more efficient to simply grind low-end content and salvage across an army of alts.
> @wintersmoke said: > @rubytrue Just out of curiosity, what will be the AD cap now since AD can be shared account wide? > > The new cap will be 100,000 AD
That is the new daily refinement cap; I'm curious as to the total amount of AD an account can have. Right now, it is 100M per character, I believe.....
> @rubytrue Just out of curiosity, what will be the AD cap now since AD can be shared account wide?
>
> The new cap will be 100,000 AD
That is the new daily refinement cap; I'm curious as to the total amount of AD an account can have. Right now, it is 100M per character, I believe.....
That will also likely be heavily reduced. I imagine it will be announced quietly at the same time they announce the minor concession they will no doubt make to the RAD changes prior to going live. Like they did with the proc time on Bondings while everyone was more bothered about the transfer rate... enough people squeed with grateful joy at any concession that it diluted the general sense of annoyance enough for them to ignore it. Like sorting out all the issues they "hadn't realised" on RQs, like, "Err... what about Stronghold Dungeon Quests?" The little concessions that distract from the fact you're still being bent and speared...
Its a fairly typical model for dumping bad news on customers and suppliers. Announce something so bad you are shocked that even the most blindsided fans say, "Woohoo! Great work guys, you knocked it out the park again!" (kind of like DC movie fans do...) so when you then capitulate publicly and say, "Ok... we've listened and decided we'll lube up first... that's better isn't it." enough cheers drown out the voices saying, "it's still going to hurt far more than I'm comfortable with..."
This is a punishment for playing and supporting your game, i dont understand why you would do this.
I would rethink this whole idea of capping the AD as it just dosent make any sense. These MOD changes should make players more happy and pull old/retired players back to the game, what your doing is pushing players away.
We did pull data on how much of our player base earns over 100k RAD on any given day before implementing this change, and that percentage is lower single digits. That number goes even lower when looking at how many accounts earn over 100k RAD every single day. A player can always log in on days they aren't grinding out AD to refine extra RAD on their characters.
Keeping the value in AD is an ongoing project for us and we will certainly be watching how this change impacts the ZAX and AH and can always make adjustments in the future to ease back the limits if that seems like the right choice.
You folks should pull your noses out of your data for a moment and put more stock in player perception. Regardless of whether your data suggests that this will help players, the overwhelming player perception, if this thread is any indication, is that this is a negative and destructive change, one that will make alot of players leave the game. Whether this is a positive change or not won't matter if no one is playing the game anymore, or if a large chunk of your player base leaves. Once that large chunk leaves, it will be very difficult, if not impossible to get them back, making future adjustments meaningless.
Certain posts in this thread suggest that player perception may change if the daily cap were raised to the neighborhood of 200-300k per day. I think my perception would change a bit, but for me, 100k per day account wide is not acceptable.
I have spent alot of real life money on this game and had planned on continuing to do so; however, if these changes are implemented as currently drafted, my wallet and I will be leaving, and the chances of us coming back to the game are low, "lower single digits," in fact.
But as stated by previous posters, the cost of Zen Store and Wondrous Bazaar items (e.g. wards, marks) will be unaffected. Thus the value of AD relative to these items will not be improved (i.e. you won't be able to buy more of them)...The value of Zen will be increased, as it will purchase the same number of AD, which will require greater time to attain.
Regarding the Zen Store - That's assuming people are willing to continue trading the same amount of AD for 1 Zen that they do now. And also depends on whether we're talking console or pc. PC's exchange is totally broken. It's basically a vending machine at this point, and frankly, I think it's beyond repair, but it'll be interesting to see if these new changes have any effect.
I'm thinking about the PS4 exchange here since that's what I'm familiar with, but:
A: Brand Spanking new players will nearly always give top price for Zen since few of them are familiar with the exchange. B: Younger players will pay top price 'cause - well, you know why. C: But aren't long time players with a modicum of sense more likely to hoard their AD and wait for more favorable exchange rates?
Groups A and B tend to have more Zen to burn than AD and likely just as indiscriminate with their Zen as they are with their AD - while Group C controls all the AD in the exchange as well as the bulk of the Zen. It's hard to guess what Group C will do, though. On the one hand, they'll want to exchange their Zen for as much AD as possible, but on the other, they're going to want spend fewer AD on Zen - so I suppose that means the average trading prices are going to drop. But then again, speculation on the PS4 exchange is alive and kicking, and those day traders don't care what the current exchange rate is as long as there's a disparity to profit from.
Regarding the Wondrous Bazaar - Did the devs say that they're leaving the prices as is? Not to sound too childish, but that would be pretty unfair, and seems counterproductive. An AD sink doesn't work unless people are willing to use it. I don't know about everyone else, but the only thing I ever use the Bazaar for is the occasional transmute, and it's something I'll forego entirely if the prices become even more unrealistic. They're already pretty horrible.
All we can do is guess, and most of our assumptions will likely fall on their faces - but it's still fun to think about.
As Mordekai said a couple of responses above, even after these changes, their is going to be billions, BILLIONS! of AD stored up on various toons with obviously economy wrecking very potential consequences. In return, there's really only 1 true way to "fix" that problem....... remove the AD from those stockpiles. Best way to do that is simply for Cryptic to remove them. DELETE all AD, game wide. Do a HARD reset, bite the bullet. no half baked ideas, completely wreck the economy, and start over from day 1. Reset the game to the very first day AD was introduced, with their imposed caps, and start over. Problem is, they'd have to do 1 more thing...... Stop the botting. and I mean, STOP the botting on PC. Which could be done. I know a couple of different ways that other MMO's have implemented... which actually worked...but it does require an initial outlay of finances / salary / time to implement. Once done though, you literally COULD prevent bots in your game... period. Number of accts? irrelevant....
That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....
...That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....
True enough, but while burning down the house you live in is the best way to rid yourself of termites, there's no point in getting rid of the termites if you've got no house to live in.
I 100% agree with you about botting, though. If that's anywhere near as pervasive as people seem to think, that's problem number one that needs to be solved. I'd rather see them spend the next quarter finding ways to stamp them out for good than working on content, patches, or anything else.
But how bad is the botting, really? Are there any realistic figures on what percentage of the exchange is controlled by them?
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misquamacus2Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 193Arc User
I think this is a good thing, as there is no value in buying ZEN to exchange to AD unless it takes a while to farm the same amount of AD.
As it is today, a person with 50 toons can farm and refine up to 1.8 million AD per day. That's 3600 ZEN, over 30$/30€ worth of ZEN. People with deep wallets have no problem paying that to avoid farming, but for a normal ZEN buyer, the ZEN would be better off buying something in the ZEN store than being used in the ZAX.
The 100k cap on refined AD will make the ZEN seem more valuable as it will take 5 days to make enough AD for 1000 ZEN, making it more attractive for people to spend real money on ZEN.
And overtime, as the AD sinkholes eats up a bit of the AD market (make more of them, some good suggestions in this thread), the ZAX exchange level may drop below 1:500 (though that is gonna take quite some time).
By putting the AD cap at 100k per day, I might actually exchange some of the ZEN I buy for AD instead of using it to buy keys and wards. I buy around 10K ZEN per month and I can count the number of times I've exchanged ZEN to AD, since the start of the game, on the fingers on one hand
I obviusly don't have any real numbers to throw at you. just personal experience. I have 8 toons. 1 of every class, which I've seen from this thread seems to be a fairly common practice. OP is my main. And when I run my 8 daily dungoens / Skirms, I *on average* encounter 2-3 fairly obvious "bots" per day. And that's just 1 person. So on PC, yes, it's almost entirely out of hand IMO. even 2 out of 16 runs is what percentage? 12-13%? of the time. Now imagine that x the hundreds on thousands / millions of players on Dragon (international) server? That's fairly significant....
They are going to do this no matter what. This thread is pretty much lip service. Quoting river Tam "it's going to get much worse", when they inevitably try and speed it up, because the backlog of AD is so monumental , that this step won't make any difference for a very long time.
As Mordekai said a couple of responses above, even after these changes, their is going to be billions, BILLIONS! of AD stored up on various toons with obviously economy wrecking very potential consequences. In return, there's really only 1 true way to "fix" that problem....... remove the AD from those stockpiles. Best way to do that is simply for Cryptic to remove them. DELETE all AD, game wide. Do a HARD reset, bite the bullet. no half baked ideas, completely wreck the economy, and start over from day 1. Reset the game to the very first day AD was introduced, with their imposed caps, and start over. Problem is, they'd have to do 1 more thing...... Stop the botting. and I mean, STOP the botting on PC. Which could be done. I know a couple of different ways that other MMO's have implemented... which actually worked...but it does require an initial outlay of finances / salary / time to implement. Once done though, you literally COULD prevent bots in your game... period. Number of accts? irrelevant....
That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....
I'm not sure about going that far, though it would be balancing if the players for whom 100k is too high an expectation stopped the smug schadenfreude and joined in with not liking the idea of the devs taking away something they'd grafted to attain in order to fix a problem they could have avoided.
People hoard Zen/AD for Zen sales. So... stop Zen sales. Get rid altogether. At best refine the invoke voucher scheme so that everything in the market falls into a category. If too many people will lose their HAMSTER over such an idea then do what our local Lidl does when they have a sale on Italian fizzy wine, or Newcastle Brown Ale, and limit the amount any account can spend at the stated discount. "Max xx per customer."
But first get rid of the free salvage events like the one running RIGHT NOW on XB, in the middle of a debate into why there are too many ADs in the game...
FFS guys...
"Doctor... it hurts when I poke myself in the eye with a fork..."
"Hmmm... sorry... we'll just have to remove that eye."
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
2. There is no good way to transfer AD between account. The good old fashion way is through AH but there is a 10% cut and also taking a risk of being banned.
There is also trading goods with inherent value that is not diminished by transferring. These include items which are commonly used in the bartering system : Marks of Potency (e.g. that used in hunts, which conveniently bypass the AH 10% 'AD sink'). Using these items, value can be transferred between VIIP 12 accounts with no loss (this will require VIP 12 to be effective).
The more than Cryptic encourages the use of the AH to transfer items, the more that AD can be removed from the economy. Interestingly, making items bound is counterproductive to this, but is productive in other ways by 'tying up' AD to characters/accounts.
The person I replied to was talking transfering AD from an alt account to the main account. Not GMOP or anything else but AD. There is no point to move GMOP from alt account to main account (unless the main account does need GMOP) anyway. I don't expect any alt account will have VIP 12 to buy GMOP and transfer over. If it is not about transferring AD from alt account to main account, the most cost effective way is to use the alt account to buy whatever the main account needs and transfer over. There is no good reason to transfer any item using AH (instead of mail) except it means for transferring AD.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
WOW! Another hit to your long time loyal player base, huh? Another terrible idea that hurts player progress. I currently refine about 360,000 A.D a day that I rightfully got from buying THOUSANDS of keys and turning my tradebars into A.D. and had to spend money on the extra character slots.
Truthfully though I am not surprised and I kind of find it amusing that all these people are on here complaining like it's actually going to make a difference.
I have been playing since PC beta and have not stopped since then. I was around for the Caturday negative A.D rollbacks and the bonding nerfs and I know that anything the community has to say won't make a difference just look at all the times we tried and failed:
Coalescent wards being taken off the TB store
Keygate
Numerous class nerfs (some understandable)
Bondings nerf
Now this AD accountwide nerf
And this isn't even taking into account wash and repeat mods that have been coming out lately. So go ahead and waste your figurative breaths even though we all know deep down that this nerf is going to happen.
Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.
Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house. 2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space. 3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots. 4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc. 5. Trophy case.
This is a punishment for playing and supporting your game, i dont understand why you would do this.
I would rethink this whole idea of capping the AD as it just dosent make any sense. These MOD changes should make players more happy and pull old/retired players back to the game, what your doing is pushing players away.
please rethink this.
Rethinking it presupposes that ANY thinking regarding the appreciative player occurred in the 1st place, which did not occur nor ever has or this game wouldn't be a the total yukblaw entrancing people into the gameplay impoverished atmosphere it is!
To play this game with the joy of expressing power/ease (to generate income to attain this stuff) requires one to engage action mechanics of a total slave.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.
Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house. 2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space. 3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots. 4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc. 5. Trophy case.
These are more or less one time AD sink. If it is priced too low, it is not effective. If it is priced too high, only rich can use it. In addition, that only serves limited audiences. I for one never ask for that or care about that. My AD has better use.
Putting wards to Wondrous Bazaar would be a very effective AD sink. Everyone has to buy it and keep on buying it.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I just started this game in dec and have drop some money in it for a couple of reasons. on being alts to farm now with this ur making that a waste. if u want to make it account wide base it off char slot 36x50 is 1.8mil a day half it but don't kill it
if this does go live on PC maybe they will remove it before it hit xbox and ps4. kinda sucks because now I'm going to wait before a put any more time in on this game
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
WOW! Another hit to your long time loyal player base, huh? Another terrible idea that hurts player progress. I currently refine about 360,000 A.D a day that I rightfully got from buying THOUSANDS of keys and turning my tradebars into A.D. and had to spend money on the extra character slots.
Truthfully though I am not surprised and I kind of find it amusing that all these people are on here complaining like it's actually going to make a difference.
I have been playing since PC beta and have not stopped since then. I was around for the Caturday negative A.D rollbacks and the bonding nerfs and I know that anything the community has to say won't make a difference just look at all the times we tried and failed:
Coalescent wards being taken off the TB store
Keygate
Numerous class nerfs (some understandable)
Bondings nerf
Now this AD accountwide nerf
And this isn't even taking into account wash and repeat mods that have been coming out lately. So go ahead and waste your figurative breaths even though we all know deep down that this nerf is going to happen.
I give credit where the credit dues. To start with, I hate RQ. I don't really do RQ. I do run once a long while (such as once in 2 weeks) with guild but I don't really run it. However, when they introduced RQ, there are a lot of complaints. During the 'development' phase, they did listen (or they chose what to listen) and made adjustment. Granted, the adjustment was not enough for my own taste but they did adjust although the end product is still something I hate. Right now, I am betting they will increase the cap and that could be their tactic to begin with. i.e. their bottom line is 200K but they started with 100K to test the water. When they finally give us 200K (or even 150K), many will put down the pitch fork.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.
Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house. 2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space. 3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots. 4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc. 5. Trophy case.
They could make it so that you don't actually "own" the home. That a landlord of sorts allows you to stay there for a monthly fee... We'd have to invent a word for it... lets call it... "RENT" And if you get three months behind on your "RENT" the landlord sends round a gang of gorillas, (LITERALLY... those augment babies will grow up one day......) who would kick your degenerate HAMSTER out on the street.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.
Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house. 2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space. 3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots. 4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc. 5. Trophy case.
They could make it so that you don't actually "own" the home. That a landlord of sorts allows you to stay there for a monthly fee... We'd have to invent a word for it... lets call it... "RENT" And if you get three months behind on your "RENT" the landlord sends round a gang of gorillas, (LITERALLY... those augment babies will grow up one day......) who would kick your degenerate HAMSTER out on the street.
This landlord will set up direct withdraw. If your account does not have enough AD, they will trash one fireplace/chandeliers/chair for the equivalent value of the rent + bully fee. In the end, they just burn down your house. The house will be burning forever until you pay the 'fire off' fee.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Here's an idea for an AD sink, something that has been asked for for years, player housing. Give each account a house that can be shared with the characters. Have a special market setup where they could purchase furnishings (either BtC or BtA) with AD. That way it keeps it off the market.
Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house. 2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space. 3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots. 4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc. 5. Trophy case.
These are more or less one time AD sink. If it is priced too low, it is not effective. If it is priced too high, only rich can use it. In addition, that only serves limited audiences. I for one never ask for that or care about that. My AD has better use.
Putting wards to Wondrous Bazaar would be a very effective AD sink. Everyone has to buy it and keep on buying it.
It wasn't meant to be a single solution. It was a suggestion of many things that can be added.
Working class? So HAMSTER anyone who is older on retirement, sick and can't work, younger kids who have all the free time in the world just because you "work"? Just because you play casually you expect every player to follow your lead? Selfish comment.
This change will hurt the players who actually play the game for more than an hour or two a day. The players who are dedicated enough to play the game 6+ hours a day are more than likely the ones who willing to spend money on events than the casual player.
I don't care how anyone plays this game but your opinion of "HAMSTER the diehard players just cater to us casual players" is incredibly selfish and will be the downfall of this game if the devs follow.
Currently, the 'diehard' players are farming 50+ low tier dungeons a day to create a massive influx of AD for very minimal effort. Sorry, but that's not gaming. That's not dedication. That's grinding because you have nothing better to do, and you shouldn't be rewarded simply for having more free time to suck up server resources. If you want AD, play endgame content and sell on the AH. The current pattern equates to fewer players geared and capable of endgame content because it's easier and more efficient to simply grind low-end content and salvage across an army of alts.
Moderator edited out mild flaming.
What you're suggesting does not seem plausible and borderline not possible, even for diehard players (not bots). Let me explain. To run just 10 toons through just the random normal and random skirmish takes between 3 and five hours depending on what content you get put in. That is actually quite a lot of dedication and effort. To run 50 toons that way, as you suggested would take between 15 and 25 hours(impossible for one day), and that's playing time just dedicated to AD grinding. Even the diehards that spend, let's say, 15 hours a day in game, are going to want to run some content, with some of that time. Otherwise, what's the point in having all that AD? The suggestion that someone who was actually able (given the time needed), let alone willing, to run that many toons through the randoms has not put forth any effort, and is not dedicated, is a bit misplaced.
As far as your suggestion that we make AD by running end game content and sell our drops on the AH, what end game content are you referring to? I ask because when I run Cradle and Tong, everything that drops, other than refinement that I use, is account bound and must be salvaged, except for an occasional tchotchke like a sleigh mount, that I could sell for a few thousand AD, if those items don't also happen to be bound. I would hit that 100k per day AD refinement cap in no time, running the end game stuff just for salvage.
Players should absolutely be rewarded for putting more time and effort into the game. That's how every game that I've ever played works. The more you play, the better you will be and the further ahead you will be.
What I'm going to say can seem rather offensive though it is not, it's more contructive criticism than anything else: first of all I find it rather frustrating to see members from the support team to comment on these subjects and state that their comment is strictly personal (I honestly haven't seen this happen anywhere else and I've been community manager and chief of product on other games and I wouldn't ever allow this to happen, especially cause if this is true it will only cause confusion, as never a member of the team would give an opinion controversial to what's being developed in the game, so these kind of safeguards are just unnecessary).
It's said that only the developers have access to informations, for example the stated that only 1% of players refine over 100 000 Astral Diamonds per day, but I'm sure they also have access to the several complaints from players regarding continuous unatended bugs, namely the Tyrant's 3 star hunt Scale drop, the Cradle of Death God missing sound bug, and the response we're getting is: a new mod in about a month and no response whatsoever regarding the bugs besides "we know there's a bug" (some confirmation the players really needed to be sure that the bug they've been dealing with for almost 2 months now is actually there). Honestly I find you don't have the ability to release a new mod seeing you've yet to solve the issues regarding the last mod that came out almost 2 months ago, as stated. Though I see this being a systematic behaviour on your part.
Specifically regarding the new Astral Diamonds refinement account wide daily cap: the lack of flexibility and accepting criticism on your part regarding this matter is honestly frustrating, as the development team is far from being perfect as we can see from your lack of capability to solve absurdly simple bugs, besides being incapable of having a realistic idea of practical prices for ZEN store items (as proof, entirely obsolete items which are entirely useless and with an entirely unreasonable price, that contrast with your statements of having "the (new) player's best interest in high concern" as it, to me, looks like bait for unexperienced players to spend ZEN on absolutely irrelevant and revoltingly overpriced items to achieve absolutely nothing on their progression or whatever else). If you really are concerned with new players try to fiddle a bit with lockboxes as an example, as take mine for a sweet experience: I've been VIP for 16 months now (that adds up to 480 lockbox keys), I've bought a few other hundreds of keys (probably around 300-400 more, I lost count), so far best I ever got from all this was a purple Wheel of Elements. So is this just lack of luck? There are theories over how this work which I choose to believe are not true. Because this means if this is true, it also means that there have been people who've had access to your game's code and found a wait to exploit the not-so-random-lockboxes you guys sell as being random.
But I honestly want to believe that is not the case and that I'm only really unlucky and others that get 2 legendary mounts a week are shone upon by the gods. I being an unlucky guy find it would be best if you would craft another way to get the legendary exclusive lockbox content as I'm seeing that although I got one (which I had to buy it), I'll more likely become a millionair playing casinos than lockboxes, which at first I wouldn't expect a casino to have a better chance for luck than your lockboxes. I know Enchanted Keys are probably your greates source of actual real money income, but this amount of greed is unreasonable, people would still buy lockboxes after they got what they wanted, for alternative characters if not anything else, but this, to me, is just pressuring me to stop spending money on extra keys as it would be only sustaining this excruciating cycle of profit just to your side and none to mine.
All of this to say: if you really want to fiddle with the Astral Diamond refinements cap to make the game more fair, I'll be here to agree entirely with you, but please first fix the game as it is already, and then afterwards shoot out new radical ideas.
I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but the gaming market is one that rotates. I've seen games much more well built than Neverwinter die from the owning company becoming to greedy and becoming too pay-to-win. Because, no matter how much you try and convince yourselves we'll take it, a game doesn't stay alive without players. And it might not be during the next mod 14, but with these company policies, negligence of the player's needs and overall game quality and consistency, Neverwinter will die eventually, and from the looks of it, sooner than later.
Thank you very much for reading.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited May 2018
If the discussion evolved into AD sinks, I'll just add that I'm willing to spend few millions (total) on some Iron Maidens, pillories and hanging cages for the SH, but only if I can actually put guildies inside! (I'll buy those without the putting guildies inside, but not for millions) Also a crane over the moat for hanging said guildies and dunking them into the piranha moat.
Hmm actually, I can make them (guildies) pay for that wall, err.. those decorations/utilities....
Ohh and one special golden cage for some very rich MWer..
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,208Arc User
Working class? So HAMSTER anyone who is older on retirement, sick and can't work, younger kids who have all the free time in the world just because you "work"? Just because you play casually you expect every player to follow your lead? Selfish comment.
This change will hurt the players who actually play the game for more than an hour or two a day. The players who are dedicated enough to play the game 6+ hours a day are more than likely the ones who willing to spend money on events than the casual player.
I don't care how anyone plays this game but your opinion of "HAMSTER the diehard players just cater to us casual players" is incredibly selfish and will be the downfall of this game if the devs follow.
Currently, the 'diehard' players are farming 50+ low tier dungeons a day to create a massive influx of AD for very minimal effort. Sorry, but that's not gaming. That's not dedication. That's grinding because you have nothing better to do, and you shouldn't be rewarded simply for having more free time to suck up server resources. If you want AD, play endgame content and sell on the AH. The current pattern equates to fewer players geared and capable of endgame content because it's easier and more efficient to simply grind low-end content and salvage across an army of alts.
Moderator edited out mild flaming.
What you're suggesting does not seem plausible and borderline not possible, even for diehard players (not bots). Let me explain. To run just 10 toons through just the random normal and random skirmish takes between 3 and five hours depending on what content you get put in. That is actually quite a lot of dedication and effort. To run 50 toons that way, as you suggested would take between 15 and 25 hours(impossible for one day), and that's playing time just dedicated to AD grinding. Even the diehards that spend, let's say, 15 hours a day in game, are going to want to run some content, with some of that time. Otherwise, what's the point in having all that AD? The suggestion that someone who was actually able (given the time needed), let alone willing, to run that many toons through the randoms has not put forth any effort, and is not dedicated, is a bit misplaced.
As far as your suggestion that we make AD by running end game content and sell our drops on the AH, what end game content are you referring to? I ask because when I run Cradle and Tong, everything that drops, other than refinement that I use, is account bound and must be salvaged, except for an occasional tchotchke like a sleigh mount, that I could sell for a few thousand AD, if those items don't also happen to be bound. I would hit that 100k per day AD refinement cap in no time, running the end game stuff just for salvage.
Players should absolutely be rewarded for putting more time and effort into the game. That's how every game that I've ever played works. The more you play, the better you will be and the further ahead you will be.
You will be rewarded but a delayed reward. It is not you cannot earn more than 100K daily. It is your pay cheque will be delayed. If there are too much backlog, take a 'vacation' once a while or spend the 'extra' time to earn AD instead of rAD. i.e. split the time and effort for getting AD and rAD to replace earning mainly for rAD.
It is not I agree with what they will do but that will be what I would do to deal with the situation.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I agree this will not change a thing with botters except increasing the amount of them on at the same time. the number of new bot accounts that will be used to acquire same amount of AD as before. This game is already so Alt unfriendly that this just adds to the number of reasons not to buy new character slots. I also agree if the change in AD refinement has to be done than use a scale to increase the AD that can be refined according to character slots at least do not take away a reason to have alts. This change is Horrible close to ending my 2yrs with the game. Might take a vacation from NW and see if I find another game of interest for awhile. The vacation could possibly turn permanent. Heck if its the zen market that is the true reason for this than make it cash for vip only. Just take out the zen exchange or add a different currency needed for zen exchange. The grind for game currency even as it is now has taken me this long to get my main built up to 14.5k.
Ok so we have all read and seen the incoming changes to AD in MOD 14 and for those players with 2 characters only it will be a help to you if you are able to get teh salvage to make up the short falls for long term multi toon players it is a kick in the teeth so I am imploring the Devs to change their minds on this change and I am listing a fw ideas.
1. 100k a day account wide is too low please make it 150k or 200k a day account wide preferably 200k. 2. Don't kill Random Queue's off it was a good idea and very enjoyable nut with no incentive to run more than 1 of each a day they will die. Eitehr increase the rerun value to 50% AD and Seals or allow us to run 4 or 5 toons at full amount. 3. Zen backlog ok this is an issue on PC but there is a simple remedy on all platforms have a set price of 500 so if I want to buy 1 zen it will cost 500 if I want to sell 1 zen I get 500 and remove the 1 in 1 out method and just have no poll or backlog. Also this will stop people on consoles playing the market making AD without playing game. 4. MORE transmutes for AD we are vain people and enjoy individuality just make lots more transmutes for weapons armour fashion sets and put them up for AD this will help drain AD pots. Also make sure they all work with YOUR premium Class dragonborn. 5. UE's in Wondrous Bazaar and Coals Pres Wards give us options to get them not just Zen market or AH.
Please don't punish long term players again I personally have played the game for nearly all the 5 years it has been around and put up with a lot of nerf's and removals and regrinding from you Dev's. The 5th Year Anniversary was suppose to be a good and joyous time from my point of view it doesnt feel that way at all in fact it feels like I am not appreciated and that I should look elsewhere for a place to spend my money.
Comments
Moderator edited out mild flaming.
> @rubytrue Just out of curiosity, what will be the AD cap now since AD can be shared account wide?
>
> The new cap will be 100,000 AD
That is the new daily refinement cap; I'm curious as to the total amount of AD an account can have. Right now, it is 100M per character, I believe.....
I imagine it will be announced quietly at the same time they announce the minor concession they will no doubt make to the RAD changes prior to going live.
Like they did with the proc time on Bondings while everyone was more bothered about the transfer rate... enough people squeed with grateful joy at any concession that it diluted the general sense of annoyance enough for them to ignore it.
Like sorting out all the issues they "hadn't realised" on RQs, like, "Err... what about Stronghold Dungeon Quests?"
The little concessions that distract from the fact you're still being bent and speared...
Its a fairly typical model for dumping bad news on customers and suppliers.
Announce something so bad you are shocked that even the most blindsided fans say, "Woohoo! Great work guys, you knocked it out the park again!" (kind of like DC movie fans do...) so when you then capitulate publicly and say, "Ok... we've listened and decided we'll lube up first... that's better isn't it." enough cheers drown out the voices saying, "it's still going to hurt far more than I'm comfortable with..."
I would rethink this whole idea of capping the AD as it just dosent make any sense.
These MOD changes should make players more happy and pull old/retired players back to the game, what your doing is pushing players away.
please rethink this.
Certain posts in this thread suggest that player perception may change if the daily cap were raised to the neighborhood of 200-300k per day. I think my perception would change a bit, but for me, 100k per day account wide is not acceptable.
I have spent alot of real life money on this game and had planned on continuing to do so; however, if these changes are implemented as currently drafted, my wallet and I will be leaving, and the chances of us coming back to the game are low, "lower single digits," in fact.
That's assuming people are willing to continue trading the same amount of AD for 1 Zen that they do now. And also depends on whether we're talking console or pc. PC's exchange is totally broken. It's basically a vending machine at this point, and frankly, I think it's beyond repair, but it'll be interesting to see if these new changes have any effect.
I'm thinking about the PS4 exchange here since that's what I'm familiar with, but:
A: Brand Spanking new players will nearly always give top price for Zen since few of them are familiar with the exchange.
B: Younger players will pay top price 'cause - well, you know why.
C: But aren't long time players with a modicum of sense more likely to hoard their AD and wait for more favorable exchange rates?
Groups A and B tend to have more Zen to burn than AD and likely just as indiscriminate with their Zen as they are with their AD - while Group C controls all the AD in the exchange as well as the bulk of the Zen. It's hard to guess what Group C will do, though. On the one hand, they'll want to exchange their Zen for as much AD as possible, but on the other, they're going to want spend fewer AD on Zen - so I suppose that means the average trading prices are going to drop. But then again, speculation on the PS4 exchange is alive and kicking, and those day traders don't care what the current exchange rate is as long as there's a disparity to profit from.
Regarding the Wondrous Bazaar -
Did the devs say that they're leaving the prices as is?
Not to sound too childish, but that would be pretty unfair, and seems counterproductive. An AD sink doesn't work unless people are willing to use it. I don't know about everyone else, but the only thing I ever use the Bazaar for is the occasional transmute, and it's something I'll forego entirely if the prices become even more unrealistic. They're already pretty horrible.
All we can do is guess, and most of our assumptions will likely fall on their faces - but it's still fun to think about.
That's the only true way to "reset" the economy. NUKE it out of existance, and start over on an even playing field. Long term though to prevent from having to do this again and again every year or so, you first need to truly, and literally, stop the botting....
I 100% agree with you about botting, though.
If that's anywhere near as pervasive as people seem to think, that's problem number one that needs to be solved. I'd rather see them spend the next quarter finding ways to stamp them out for good than working on content, patches, or anything else.
But how bad is the botting, really? Are there any realistic figures on what percentage of the exchange is controlled by them?
As it is today, a person with 50 toons can farm and refine up to 1.8 million AD per day. That's 3600 ZEN, over 30$/30€ worth of ZEN. People with deep wallets have no problem paying that to avoid farming, but for a normal ZEN buyer, the ZEN would be better off buying something in the ZEN store than being used in the ZAX.
The 100k cap on refined AD will make the ZEN seem more valuable as it will take 5 days to make enough AD for 1000 ZEN, making it more attractive for people to spend real money on ZEN.
And overtime, as the AD sinkholes eats up a bit of the AD market (make more of them, some good suggestions in this thread), the ZAX exchange level may drop below 1:500 (though that is gonna take quite some time).
By putting the AD cap at 100k per day, I might actually exchange some of the ZEN I buy for AD instead of using it to buy keys and wards. I buy around 10K ZEN per month and I can count the number of times I've exchanged ZEN to AD, since the start of the game, on the fingers on one hand
People hoard Zen/AD for Zen sales. So... stop Zen sales. Get rid altogether. At best refine the invoke voucher scheme so that everything in the market falls into a category.
If too many people will lose their HAMSTER over such an idea then do what our local Lidl does when they have a sale on Italian fizzy wine, or Newcastle Brown Ale, and limit the amount any account can spend at the stated discount. "Max xx per customer."
But first get rid of the free salvage events like the one running RIGHT NOW on XB, in the middle of a debate into why there are too many ADs in the game...
FFS guys...
"Doctor... it hurts when I poke myself in the eye with a fork..."
"Hmmm... sorry... we'll just have to remove that eye."
There is no point to move GMOP from alt account to main account (unless the main account does need GMOP) anyway. I don't expect any alt account will have VIP 12 to buy GMOP and transfer over. If it is not about transferring AD from alt account to main account, the most cost effective way is to use the alt account to buy whatever the main account needs and transfer over. There is no good reason to transfer any item using AH (instead of mail) except it means for transferring AD.
Truthfully though I am not surprised and I kind of find it amusing that all these people are on here complaining like it's actually going to make a difference.
I have been playing since PC beta and have not stopped since then. I was around for the Caturday negative A.D rollbacks and the bonding nerfs and I know that anything the community has to say won't make a difference just look at all the times we tried and failed:
- Coalescent wards being taken off the TB store
- Keygate
- Numerous class nerfs (some understandable)
- Bondings nerf
- Now this AD accountwide nerf
And this isn't even taking into account wash and repeat mods that have been coming out lately. So go ahead and waste your figurative breaths even though we all know deep down that this nerf is going to happen.Some ideas for items:
1. A "home stone". Allows you to transport directly to your house.
2. Expansions for additional rooms, so each character has their own living space.
3. Storage (similar) to the bank. Expandable to more slots.
4. Decorations such as fireplaces, chandeliers, tables, chairs, etc.
5. Trophy case.
To play this game with the joy of expressing power/ease (to generate income to attain this stuff) requires one to engage action mechanics of a total slave.
Putting wards to Wondrous Bazaar would be a very effective AD sink. Everyone has to buy it and keep on buying it.
and have drop some money in it for a couple of reasons. on being alts to farm now with this ur making that a waste. if u want to make it account wide base it off char slot 36x50 is 1.8mil a day half it but don't kill it
To start with, I hate RQ. I don't really do RQ. I do run once a long while (such as once in 2 weeks) with guild but I don't really run it.
However, when they introduced RQ, there are a lot of complaints. During the 'development' phase, they did listen (or they chose what to listen) and made adjustment. Granted, the adjustment was not enough for my own taste but they did adjust although the end product is still something I hate.
Right now, I am betting they will increase the cap and that could be their tactic to begin with.
i.e. their bottom line is 200K but they started with 100K to test the water. When they finally give us 200K (or even 150K), many will put down the pitch fork.
We'd have to invent a word for it... lets call it... "RENT"
And if you get three months behind on your "RENT" the landlord sends round a gang of gorillas, (LITERALLY... those augment babies will grow up one day......) who would kick your degenerate HAMSTER out on the street.
As far as your suggestion that we make AD by running end game content and sell our drops on the AH, what end game content are you referring to? I ask because when I run Cradle and Tong, everything that drops, other than refinement that I use, is account bound and must be salvaged, except for an occasional tchotchke like a sleigh mount, that I could sell for a few thousand AD, if those items don't also happen to be bound. I would hit that 100k per day AD refinement cap in no time, running the end game stuff just for salvage.
Players should absolutely be rewarded for putting more time and effort into the game. That's how every game that I've ever played works. The more you play, the better you will be and the further ahead you will be.
It's said that only the developers have access to informations, for example the stated that only 1% of players refine over 100 000 Astral Diamonds per day, but I'm sure they also have access to the several complaints from players regarding continuous unatended bugs, namely the Tyrant's 3 star hunt Scale drop, the Cradle of Death God missing sound bug, and the response we're getting is: a new mod in about a month and no response whatsoever regarding the bugs besides "we know there's a bug" (some confirmation the players really needed to be sure that the bug they've been dealing with for almost 2 months now is actually there).
Honestly I find you don't have the ability to release a new mod seeing you've yet to solve the issues regarding the last mod that came out almost 2 months ago, as stated. Though I see this being a systematic behaviour on your part.
Specifically regarding the new Astral Diamonds refinement account wide daily cap: the lack of flexibility and accepting criticism on your part regarding this matter is honestly frustrating, as the development team is far from being perfect as we can see from your lack of capability to solve absurdly simple bugs, besides being incapable of having a realistic idea of practical prices for ZEN store items (as proof, entirely obsolete items which are entirely useless and with an entirely unreasonable price, that contrast with your statements of having "the (new) player's best interest in high concern" as it, to me, looks like bait for unexperienced players to spend ZEN on absolutely irrelevant and revoltingly overpriced items to achieve absolutely nothing on their progression or whatever else). If you really are concerned with new players try to fiddle a bit with lockboxes as an example, as take mine for a sweet experience: I've been VIP for 16 months now (that adds up to 480 lockbox keys), I've bought a few other hundreds of keys (probably around 300-400 more, I lost count), so far best I ever got from all this was a purple Wheel of Elements.
So is this just lack of luck? There are theories over how this work which I choose to believe are not true. Because this means if this is true, it also means that there have been people who've had access to your game's code and found a wait to exploit the not-so-random-lockboxes you guys sell as being random.
But I honestly want to believe that is not the case and that I'm only really unlucky and others that get 2 legendary mounts a week are shone upon by the gods. I being an unlucky guy find it would be best if you would craft another way to get the legendary exclusive lockbox content as I'm seeing that although I got one (which I had to buy it), I'll more likely become a millionair playing casinos than lockboxes, which at first I wouldn't expect a casino to have a better chance for luck than your lockboxes.
I know Enchanted Keys are probably your greates source of actual real money income, but this amount of greed is unreasonable, people would still buy lockboxes after they got what they wanted, for alternative characters if not anything else, but this, to me, is just pressuring me to stop spending money on extra keys as it would be only sustaining this excruciating cycle of profit just to your side and none to mine.
All of this to say: if you really want to fiddle with the Astral Diamond refinements cap to make the game more fair, I'll be here to agree entirely with you, but please first fix the game as it is already, and then afterwards shoot out new radical ideas.
I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, but the gaming market is one that rotates. I've seen games much more well built than Neverwinter die from the owning company becoming to greedy and becoming too pay-to-win. Because, no matter how much you try and convince yourselves we'll take it, a game doesn't stay alive without players.
And it might not be during the next mod 14, but with these company policies, negligence of the player's needs and overall game quality and consistency, Neverwinter will die eventually, and from the looks of it, sooner than later.
Thank you very much for reading.
Also a crane over the moat for hanging said guildies and dunking them into the piranha moat.
Hmm actually, I can make them (guildies) pay for that wall, err.. those decorations/utilities....
Ohh and one special golden cage for some very rich MWer..
It is not I agree with what they will do but that will be what I would do to deal with the situation.
1. 100k a day account wide is too low please make it 150k or 200k a day account wide preferably 200k.
2. Don't kill Random Queue's off it was a good idea and very enjoyable nut with no incentive to run more than 1 of each a day they will die. Eitehr increase the rerun value to 50% AD and Seals or allow us to run 4 or 5 toons at full amount.
3. Zen backlog ok this is an issue on PC but there is a simple remedy on all platforms have a set price of 500 so if I want to buy 1 zen it will cost 500 if I want to sell 1 zen I get 500 and remove the 1 in 1 out method and just have no poll or backlog. Also this will stop people on consoles playing the market making AD without playing game.
4. MORE transmutes for AD we are vain people and enjoy individuality just make lots more transmutes for weapons armour fashion sets and put them up for AD this will help drain AD pots. Also make sure they all work with YOUR premium Class dragonborn.
5. UE's in Wondrous Bazaar and Coals Pres Wards give us options to get them not just Zen market or AH.
Please don't punish long term players again I personally have played the game for nearly all the 5 years it has been around and put up with a lot of nerf's and removals and regrinding from you Dev's. The 5th Year Anniversary was suppose to be a good and joyous time from my point of view it doesnt feel that way at all in fact it feels like I am not appreciated and that I should look elsewhere for a place to spend my money.