Is 13 a weak mod?

gankdalf

Is it just me or are others already bored of the new mod as well? Pretty much all of the content is a copy past from last mod with nothing super exciting content wise.

The hunts have a terrible drop rate so after a few hours I gave up on that, and already did hunts that last mod so it wasn't really something new and most of the new drops are really bad and not even an upgrade. The quests are super boring and Im pretty much done with that (just gonna do the weeklies for boons). And the boons are also not even that desirable. Then we have the trial, its design makes it a bad experience and overall wont really keep me engaged for a longer period of time like Tong did. Its short and you doing the same few phases over and over again and the drops again, not super exciting.

So overall, Im already done with this mod, when is the next? 4 months? 6 months? How do you plan to keep the players here for that long with this mod? Mod13 feels like it should have been Mod12c.

minotaur2857

All the effort went into a trial I can't even think of attempting and the guildies I've spoken to say is impossible with the push/pull mechanic causing enormous issues if there's lag, that bit is doable but not much fun without the lag. The hunts have a truly abysmal drop rate and the repeatable quests get old fast. Fane can have so much lag it's unsoloable (15-20 seconds to be able to interact with the key in the poison gas for example, and 30 seconds of total paralysis in the final encounter).

pitshade

I did Fane last night on several characters. On my TR, the lag was so bad it took 7 or more tries to even get the boss gate to work. The countdown would go to zero and then nothing happened. I had to relog twice from the Fear bug, no chance at avoiding getting hit.

As to the mod, it features improvements over the original but the boons weren't great the first time. The game seriously needs an infusion of group content and not all end game as well.

minotaur2857

pitshade said:

I did Fane last night on several characters. On my TR, the lag was so bad it took 7 or more tries to even get the boss gate to work. The countdown would go to zero and then nothing happened. I had to relog twice from the Fear bug, no chance at avoiding getting hit.



As to the mod, it features improvements over the original but the boons weren't great the first time. The game seriously needs an infusion of group content and not all end game as well.

They should consider making a non master version of Cradle without the push/pull with a shot at the same rewards (particularly the ones you can't get anywhere else) but a significantly lower chance (1/2 to 1/3), so that if you can do the original, you will do it, but if you can't you can still get what you're after, but it will take you longer.

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meirami

This mod itself is nice, but 1) many of the new rings have defensive slots, which most pve players don't want, 2) Fane only gives one Shadowstalker ring per character, and 3) Cradle is very buggy.

It's awful to run Cradle when just one person can bug the boss so rest of us cannot target him anymore, making the whole trial fail and having to be restarted.

I also feel like devs have taken multiple steps back with communication, because no one seems to even comment on Fane.

cerberusxll

this mod, and the one before it I have found to be the least inspiring since EE for me personally. I only did my first ToNG run yesterday, and other than for the seals to get the new weapon set, I can't imagine me wanting to run this one over and over.

callumf

I quite like it - but I do find the jumpy up into the air quest a bit annoying. That could get very tiresome very fast on a lagging computer.

I like the Undercity parts, thats what D&D should be like. Nice.

I dont do the hunts due to RNG so I cant comment.

Generally the daily quests seem a bit too easy for a 13.5k iL GF.

The Tyrant isnt scary enough.

The Gorillas are a bit psychotic.

Overall its a 7/10.

I still prefer the overall general campaign mechanics of River District where you could choose how to progress/ 8.5/10 for that one

wizardlvl80

Mod 11 was a great one - this was a one hell of a good job.

I think that my main problem with mod12 and mod13 is that they are closing us on one map, placing every new BiS item on it. New bis rings? Omu! New bis weapons? Omu! New bis armor? Omu! New bis Shirt and Pants? Omu! You get my point. When mod11 was live, BiS gear was either from FBI, MSP or SVA, even IG where you had to grind for weapon materials. Also, new gear droping from chests in dungeons like VT, MC etc. From mod12 everything is locked in one area and after 2 weeks I'm sick of it. We literally have no reason to even travel to earlier maps - which mod11 did great by the way with quests in different areas.

litaaers

Delete

sgaddis13

I've been referring to it as 12c and will likely continue to do so. I would say it is definitely more on par with 12b than it is with a new full mod.

Nothing about Chult does it for me. I don't really like dinosaurs in my fantasy games, even though that is the new trend these days. Among the other issues everyone else has mentioned, of course. It's all 'meh.' But others love it, so there is really no right or wrong answer. It's all about preferences.

c3rb3r3

sgaddis13#3703 said:

I've been referring to it as 12c and will likely continue to do so. I would say it is definitely more on par with 12b than it is with a new full mod.

Nothing about Chult does it for me. I don't really like dinosaurs in my fantasy games, even though that is the new trend these days. Among the other issues everyone else has mentioned, of course. It's all 'meh.' But others love it, so there is really no right or wrong answer. It's all about preferences.

Can't wait to see mod 12d being all about a skirmish with King Kong and a random revamp just to say "we've added features !"

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pterias

grrouper said:

sgaddis13#3703 said:

I've been referring to it as 12c and will likely continue to do so. I would say it is definitely more on par with 12b than it is with a new full mod.

Nothing about Chult does it for me. I don't really like dinosaurs in my fantasy games, even though that is the new trend these days. Among the other issues everyone else has mentioned, of course. It's all 'meh.' But others love it, so there is really no right or wrong answer. It's all about preferences.

Don't like dinosaurs just wait until we get the Aliens in mod 14

Yeah, the going speculation is that the next WotC storyline is going to be Planes/Spelljammer(aka, space)-based. We probably won't be seeing Xenomorphs, but we might see some hippo-man space mercs with muskets!

...

*throws self out of an airlock*

strathkin

Well I honestly have to say 2 star or 3 star lure's should likely have a reduced drop rate. Yet remember that It's dropping 480 gear for most people that's likely comparable even if the Mastercraft II stuff is still a little bit better. One's FOCUS should be on advancing the campaign not just exclusively being their to find marked targed and collecting and trading trophy pieces!

If your missing a particular piece then by all means go hunting for the smaller animals, that will upon defeating them spawn the larger ones; then as those are defeated there's a larger chance one with have a mark.

Only the REX with the mark (like Orge's which all have it) give the chance of even dropping a trophy. If your killing every REX you see if they don't have a mark they is absolutely zero chance they will drop a trophy but there also not as difficult to defeat. Now realize some will ignore a REX or others that don't at least have the mark; but also doing so means you may have to wait that much longer for a mark to appear.

A Rex is the only enemy however that ALWAYS drops a Trophy for everybody in a party in both Chult & Omu simply because they often can be paired up with several other trophy's to make lure not just 1 other like many. Trophies depending if they are 1, 2 or 3 stars hunts can have between 2-10% chance of dropping a trophy at least in Chult. Omu depending on the Mark Target may be slightly less at 1-10% but again it's RNG so killing 10 doesn't mean you'll get one it could sometimes take 15-25 attempts then others may earn 1 or 2 doing perhaps only 5-10.

Still there are some that as they've been questing over the last month have built up several trophy pieces and even expanded their bank space for them. But if you don't have or are missing 1 piece yet have 2 or 3 of the other then try the TRADE channel and offer 1 of the other pieces cause perhaps someone else has 1, 2 or 3 of the others but not yours. Then both of you can trade and each make a lure for the chance at a nice piece of gear dropping.

vordayn

ejziponken said:

Is it just me or are others already bored of the new mod as well? Pretty much all of the content is a copy past from last mod with nothing super exciting content wise.

The hunts have a terrible drop rate so after a few hours I gave up on that, and already did hunts that last mod so it wasn't really something new and most of the new drops are really bad and not even an upgrade. The quests are super boring and Im pretty much done with that (just gonna do the weeklies for boons). And the boons are also not even that desirable. Then we have the trial, its design makes it a bad experience and overall wont really keep me engaged for a longer period of time like Tong did. Its short and you doing the same few phases over and over again and the drops again, not super exciting.

So overall, Im already done with this mod, when is the next? 4 months? 6 months? How do you plan to keep the players here for that long with this mod? Mod13 feels like it should have been Mod12c.

With PvP in its deaththroes (probably received a SoD proc), and Trial of the Toilet Rim limited to players with ideal latency (read: geographical), and CWs being throttled as main DPS in most parties, and consistent nerfs to DCs, and hunts being tiered 'RNG-ception' ... I'm not entirely sure there is much for me to look forward to.

Lack of communication from Devs is pretty apparent, despite forum complaints otherwise. Yep, I'm with you, I'm done with this mod.

schietindebux

I allready thought intensively how to waste my time outside NWO.
Cradle of uglyface... there seems to be classes (my DC), that can handle it easy, but some classes seem to have severe issues, i hate it at this moment on my warlock.
Gonna try some more and if the funfactor drops to minus 10, I simply dodge that mod

tom

The questing sucks... the rng on the rings sucks (90 maps still no +4) and i dont even bother with hunting anymore after the shitshow we had in mod 12. But atleast the trial is challenging and rewards good players with a faster way to farm UEs. So thats atleast something

chidion

I find it interesting that so many players are in such a hurry to level up their characters (sometime by skipping some or even all actual game content entirely), farm randoms repeatedly for astral diamonds to purchase BIS gear, artifact and enchantment items - then complain that they are "bored" with "unchallenging" content that they can solo, even if it appears that content was intended to be a full party experience...

Some players complain they can't get the item they are wanting quickly enough...
When those players get the item they were wanting, they say they are "bored" because there is nothing new for them to do, or the next item they are attempting to get has eluded them so far.

If you want a challenging experience here's a thought... park those overpowered juggernauts with high level boons and enhancements and create new character and level it up the hard way with only the gear drops one receives for doing actual game content.

Keep your wads of game cash in your virtual pockets and play the game until you can afford to trade your 100 seals for a level 5 enchantment from the vendor in the Seven Suns Market, pick up potions and coins on content when you run it to enable your character to buy healing potions, injury kits and skill kits from a merchant vendor as needed. Pick up refining gems and level up your enchantments, runestones and artifacts without just buying them from the Auction House.

There's your "challenge"... and if you're still bored you can always go back to those OP characters and challenge each other in PVP (Perhaps ask for a random one-on-one contest feature on PVP) for bragging rights on the leaderboard.

Just my two cents ~

hustin1

The mod needs something to spice it up, I think. After recently completing Fane of the Night Serpent, I had a thought that it would be really cool if there was some extra NPC dialogue scattered around the game as a whole that would let us follow up on the...revelations at the end. For instance, I went to Protector's Enclave to see if Knox or Neverember had anything to say, to the Sage Shop to see if Sage Bradda might have some advice, etc. I checked in with Doomguide Soulhearth at Ebon Downs to see if I could pick his brain, and checked the Dread Ring to see if Xuna had any thoughts on the matter. Trying to be thorough, I also talked to the various doomguides in Neverdeath, and even went to Helm's Hold (and Reclamation Rock) to see if Brother Satarin had any pearls of wisdom in light of the current situation.

And, of course I checked with Nanny Pu-pu. I was really surprised that she had nothing to offer.

chidion

I think one of the primary problems is the game developers are on a strict timeline for which they have to produce and publish new and relevant content... sometimes those kinds of restrictions don't allow for a lot of artistic, original or well thought out content when having to deal with that level of corporate micro-managing... but that's just a guess.

@hustin1, yeah it would be nice if once in a while Sgt Knox or another random NPC in the game would come up with something new and original for players... it's just like after completing the campaigns in areas, those NPC characters might as well not even exist because they have absolutely nothing to offer. Even the Underdark quests that requires a player to travel to some areas they've already completed can be accomplished without interacting with a single NPC in those areas - what a wasted opportunity.

gromovnipljesak

Been calling it M12c for a while now - because it is. A new mod entails completely new stuff, starting fresh etc.
M12c requires 12 to be finished, therefore it's an expansion of it, rather than a brand new mod. Had enough dinosaurs for a while.
Level 70 as a cap has been thoroughly explored - it's time to move on. I'd like them to take their time, make a mod on-par with underdark (remember how good that was? and so much content - CN, Demo/Edemo, Throne, Prophecy...), and obviously, increase the level cap. That would add a LOT of things to do. Not only will we get new content, obviously, we'd also get completely new feats and powers to work with, adjust our builds, add some freshness into the game itself - and best of all, you can adjust balance quite a bit with the addition of a few new powers and 2 new feats. You can even possibly revive some paragon paths (scoundrel, sentinel, now pathfinder too). Give well-performing classes (eg, conq GF, ACDC, destro GWF, OP in general...) mediocre powers and feats that rival their current choice enough to reconsider, but not to necessarily buff the class, and give under-performing paths (eg CW in general, scoundrel tr, sentinel gwf and its broken capstone feat, pathfinder HR...) good feats that will actually be useful. That way bad paths are getting stuff they're definitely gonna use, that will further buff them and make them stronger, and good ones will get stuff that won't change their performance enough to still be far ahead of other options.

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gromovnipljesak

macjae said:

Underdark didn't feature a lot of content. All the three new skirmishes (Demo/Throne/Prophecy) had very small maps, and the rest of the new "content" was adding new HEs all over the place.

CN was where they hacked off half the dungeon and replaced the monsters with new ones, and it was reintroduced in Maze Engine, not Underdark. The new boss mechanics are more interesting than the old ones, but overall the old dungeon felt better.

By comparison, module 13 added a new adventure zone put together differently than what they'd done before, and Cradle is at least comparable to Demo. So the net amount of new content is actually significantly bigger in module 13 than it was in module 8, it's just structured differently.

The one module where they *did* have a lot of new content -- module 10 -- was also their worst in terms of overall playability, just being an extraordinarily merciless grindfest.

I'd rather not face another level cap increase, because the last time they did so, the new content added was negative. They still haven't added back some of the old dungeons from before that. Module 6 was such a screwjob on the game that it has permanently tainted the idea of a level cap increase to me.

I'm not talking about size of content but quantity and quality.
Also, not increasing level cap ever, equals to stagnation. There's only so much they can do without increasing the level cap, because a huge part of the game is optimizing our character, its feats and so on, and that hasn't changed in literally years.

Also, they can add however much content they want, but the difference between Underdark and Chult is... chult is simply boring. It hasn't been out for a long time and I'd still run CN every day rather than TonG, but I have to if I want to progress at any decent rate.

kemnimtarkas

I've enjoyed the gameplay so far. Both m12 and m13's grindy bits are better than STK. The drop rate for hunt lures is the only negative I can cite.

That said, I am looking forward to leaving Chult behind with m14. Hoping for Waterdeep or Amn as the next zone.

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adinosii

etelgrin said:

Just undo mod 13.

Well, it isn't all bad. Let's see...

• The introduction of a new tier of weapons and armour/neck/waist items is great for BiS players, as it gives them something new to aim for.
  
• Fashion bag is great.
  
• The new tattoo "pants" and "shirts" are really good for some builds.
  
• The chain of scales is a cool little item.
  
• Both of the HEs are actually playable and worthwhile - not like the second HE in Soshenstar, which is a pain.
  
• The Fane of the Night Serpent is an OK challenge - suitably hard for a solo player.
  
• Getting the October bugfixes is just great.
  
• Being able to auto-switch Mounts and companions when switching loadouts is really convenient.
  

Did I miss anything?

Of course, there are quite a few negatives.

• The hunts are just frustrating, with RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. They are also worse than the older hunts, because only a single tier-1 rare monster spawns, instead of two, so your chance of getting a trophy is lower.
  
• Too many design flaws - the "one time" Ring of the Shadowstalker and the Allosaur Fang issue are supposed to be fixed soon, but they should never have made it to live in the first place. And yes, the Ostorian Tale Carvings are a big issue - and not a word yet on those. Disappointing.
  
• The Cradle of the Death God has various design issues - some parts are too easy, and the final part is unreasonably hard for some players - in particular those playing from overseas with significant lag. It is particularly disappointing, because they got the difficulty in ToNG just right - I had hoped that would set the standard for the future.
  

Did I miss anything?

vordayn

adinosii said:

Did I miss anything?

Good list.

Some negatives, affects CWs more than most (yes, there were a number of threads and posts about it, so even if you weren't a CW, you probably would not have missed it, unless of course, you don't really care, haha, which I suspect for non-CWs). If you main a CW, then it does make this substantially worse for SS DPS:

- Lightning enchantment nerfs
- Stormspell nerf (unless you have very high crit) and bug on release of nerf (unintended lower proc rate), but then supposedly 'fixed' to be working again...

One positive if you are a MoF, but as for me, not really working in my preferred playstyle:

+ Rimefire and smoulder damage increase

Other positives:

+ Gear from Makos/Eku favours. Some of them are quite interesting.
+ The Elevator part of CODG for the FIRST time (and only for the first time).

Other negatives:

- Not just CODG design issues, but actual bugs - healing atropal, atropal being immune to damage, chests not opening up if you die at the wrong time ...
- Any subsequent elevator scene at CODG. Damn it to hell!
- Shadow of Demise still basically ignoring dodges, pre-mitigation in PvP. Broken as hell.

ilmenira

i find myself with 5 chars in this mod at the same time,
never happened before.
it's the mod of all 13 so far i apparently enjoy most...
(surprised about this too, as i was not very motivated those last months... )

it's much more apt to be played just by mood
no forced grinding
(like up to mod 12, where i had to do quests over and over if i wanted to advance in the campaign, and some of them were so boring after a while)

now i can roam freely, after empowering a shrine, hunt a bit with this char or another,
farm makos favors,
do some bhe in between
dig some treasures
or sometimes pick up the baby ghost
as i feel like.

i also like the map!

there have been some distinctive design changes that seem to suit me a lot.
i would be curious to know numbers about how mod 13 is being received...
and i would be happy if some of these innovations (such as currency dropping from fights) would be kept up in future mods!

rafaelda

pterias said:

grrouper said:

sgaddis13#3703 said:

I've been referring to it as 12c and will likely continue to do so. I would say it is definitely more on par with 12b than it is with a new full mod.

Nothing about Chult does it for me. I don't really like dinosaurs in my fantasy games, even though that is the new trend these days. Among the other issues everyone else has mentioned, of course. It's all 'meh.' But others love it, so there is really no right or wrong answer. It's all about preferences.

Don't like dinosaurs just wait until we get the Aliens in mod 14

Yeah, the going speculation is that the next WotC storyline is going to be Planes/Spelljammer(aka, space)-based. We probably won't be seeing Xenomorphs, but we might see some hippo-man space mercs with muskets!

...

*throws self out of an airlock*

For real WotC is talking about spelljammer ?


BTW 12C is the real name for this mode, also i understand the reuse of visual content, even armor models in older modules but that was the first time i'm seing recycling of a Boon tree...

pterias

rafaelda said:

pterias said:

grrouper said:

sgaddis13#3703 said:

I've been referring to it as 12c and will likely continue to do so. I would say it is definitely more on par with 12b than it is with a new full mod.

Nothing about Chult does it for me. I don't really like dinosaurs in my fantasy games, even though that is the new trend these days. Among the other issues everyone else has mentioned, of course. It's all 'meh.' But others love it, so there is really no right or wrong answer. It's all about preferences.

Don't like dinosaurs just wait until we get the Aliens in mod 14

Yeah, the going speculation is that the next WotC storyline is going to be Planes/Spelljammer(aka, space)-based. We probably won't be seeing Xenomorphs, but we might see some hippo-man space mercs with muskets!

...

*throws self out of an airlock*

For real WotC is talking about spelljammer ?

"Talking" would be too strong a word. "Vague innuendo and foreshadowing" would be much better. The rulebook coming out next month is a monster book that covers a lot of story about different conflicts between creatures, including a lot of extra-planar and space-based stuff like Gith vs. Mindflayers. Over the last several months, they have also "mentioned" the presence of Modrons in the core rulebooks, the fact that derelict spacecraft (mostly Mind Flayer spacecraft) have popped up in several of the hardback adventures, and showing off the "Giff" (the hippo-man space mercs I mentioned earlier) coming out in the new rulebook at a trade show recently with a wink and a nod. Here's a massive thread over on ENWorld about that last bit and people's speculation.