FBI Second Boss (For Dummies)

klangeddin

As someone who does FBI pugs a lot, second boss can be a big hurdle if the party is not strong enough to "outdps" its mechanics.
This usually leads to people quitting because they think that there is just "not enough dps".
In truth, this boss does not really require any dps to be killed and could be soloed by tanks and healers (even if it would take them hours).

My hope is that this thread can help a bit with the player base knowledge and make PuG FBI a better experience on average.

First of all, about the slams:
As everyone knows, the boss will periodically do slams that hit everyone, knock them down and apply a stacking buff that increases the boss damage. When stacks reach 7-8 most pugs start going down, stronger groups could probably survive even up to 14-16 stacks, but stronger groups kill the boss before they even reach 7 so, this is only theory.

Now about the slams. Are the slams all the same? It might look like that to the "not so expert" eye, but the answer is a definitive no.
There are two types of slams:

1) The "Good" Slams. These happen randomly right after the boss emerges after the submerge phase. These slams ALWAYS come in PAIRS, so it's always 2 slams in a row. Why are these good slams? Well, first of all, because you can't do much about them, secondly because there can't be more than 6 of these slams in the whole fight and finally because after the second slam, the boss will pause for a while, giving the tank time to grab aggro and brace in for the next attacks.

2) The "Bad" Slams. The true bane of pugs. These happen because the positioning of the party is wrong. When there are 2 or more people very close to the boss (in what they think is a "safe spot" because the AoE breath does not reach there) the boss will perform a single slam. These slams are very bad, first of all because there is no cap to how many times these type of slams can happen and second, because right after the slam, the boss will instantly perform a bite or a single target breath. This follow-up combo generally kills tanks in pugs at 7-8 stacks, and this is where the wipe starts.

The problem with most pugs is that 99% of them think that the safe spot will save them, when it will most likely doom them.

The correct positioning is illustrated by the picture below:

1) on the left you have a party with the proper positioning, they will receive, at worst 6 slams. (3 Good Slams x 2). If DPS is VERY low, you can actually manage to reset the slam stacks on boss and end the fight with 0. DPS is not really required in this setup, you can kill the boss even in 10-15-20 minutes if you want. It just requires some patience and a tank (or even a melee dps) that can survive a few bites.

2) On the right you have 99% of pugs. These are entirely in the hands of the total party's dps. If the dps is not there, they WILL wipe.



Another thing, in the correct positioning scenario. The multiple bites attacks DO NOT HAPPEN AT ALL! In fact, that apparently harmless (on higher stacks it becomes deadly for meleers) attack can be interpreted as the boss signaling you that you are in the wrong position. If you see multiple bites often it means that too many players are too close to the boss.

mebengalsfan

I gotten through plenty of the turtle without him slamming. It is all about positioning. If the DPS or tank are two close he will slam. Back up a bit and he won't.

dupeks

Yeah, this is especially noticeable if you happen to run with all-ranged DPS party. If only the tank (and maybe a stray DC or templock) stays in the Red Breath Area and everyone else stands farther back, then turtle almost never slams.

lantern22

If this is correct - awesome post. Many, many thanks for sharing.

I always knew that the tank (or whoever has aggro) needed to be within melee range, and needed to stay within the AOE but I didn't know that you could be too close nor that the other DPS could be too close.

Seems like it makes sense tho, get too close and crowd the turtle and it slam attacks

Will definitely share this with others.

mebengalsfan

Most of the slams comes from melee DPS getting under the arm/leg of the turtle. If the DPS back out of the red instead of moving there and the tank stays at the furthest melee range for their At-Wills the turtle will never slam. However, if the DPS move to the inside of the arm/leg and the tank gets into the turtle face it will slam. I tested it last night and I was able to get only 1 slam.

Also when the turtle comes onto the shore, the tank should aggro the turtle at the furthest melee range or a slam will happen. If melee DPS attacks prior the tank getting aggro, the turtle has a high probability of doing a slam. As a GF, usually Enforced Threat does the trick for me, but usually a GWF or HR is right up in the thick of it and results in a slam; thank you GWF for adding an unnecessary slam.

Did a full run with zero slams using the tactics above; DCs/Templock should not be near the tank as that can cause the turtle to slam as well. Sometimes though, he just slams due to where the group is when he comes up and you have no choice but to deal with it.

The mechanics on the turtle are pretty simple but most DPS stay to close and cause unneeded slams and can make what should be an easy run, next to impossible.

The other issue I see with the turtle is that they hit the coins right when the pop up and this can result in a wipe due to the freeze attack; instead wait 5-10 after the coin landed as it maybe the one needed to hit the turtle.

majorcharvenak

Thanks for this, Klanggedin. Great guide for that fight. Do you have any advice for the masses on the submerged phase when the Turtle will occassionally surface steam breath the party? I've been with pugs that will clear out all the runic mines that land and don't save one or two to use on the turtle when his head pops up. Any suggestions?

klangeddin

majorcharvenak said:

Thanks for this, Klanggedin. Great guide for that fight. Do you have any advice for the masses on the submerged phase when the Turtle will occassionally surface steam breath the party? I've been with pugs that will clear out all the runic mines that land and don't save one or two to use on the turtle when his head pops up. Any suggestions?

During submerged phase, the runic mines should ideally be left alone, except for those who are aimed at the turtle.
My advice is to just clear the ones very close to the center and stay away from the others.
Normally I walk around at the edges (not too close to the water) of the island, trying to follow the boss' swimming, after you see it popping out of the water twice, you will know that the third one will be to breath. By then, you should look for a runic mine that is in that position, so you can knock it towards boss.

Keep in mind that there are some occasions where things don't go as planned (the rune you intended to knock to boss explodes right in front of you, for example), and you may not manage to hit the turtle even if you didnt touch a single rune before.

The general rules of thumbs are:
1) No indiscriminate mine hitting. Just clear the early ones at the center. After those 1-2 mines, you need to start looking for the boss and prepare to aim.
2) No AoE at all. The TR AoE with the knives popping from the ground here is especially bad.
3) If you are in a group with someone who knows how to handle the mines properly, but you're not really sure how, just avoid the mines and let those with experience handle them instead.
4) Needless to say, if someone else starts blasting mines around at random, you'll be doomed and there's nothing you can do about it except nerd raging or kicking from party.

frozenfirevr

I'd say buffs are the major issue causing people to huddle together...

mamalion1234

There is another way which is dangerous and bit slower( because the pushes interupt players) . All 5 standing where the tank stands at the middle.
IN that case " all have the correct position" and doesnt matter to who will switch the turtle.