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CW changes in mod 13:
thefabricant
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,248 Arc User
So in mod 13, there are 2 pretty big changes coming to CW, the first being specific to Spellstorm (the Storm Spell change) and the second being the rework to the oppressor capstone.
So, how does Shatter Strike work? Well, it only procs on control immune targets, for 33% of your weapon damage (before buffs). It procs the following number of times on CW powers:
As you can see, most of its potential comes on Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Storm Pillar however some of that potential is lost as the types of enemies you would want to use Steal Time and Icy Terrain on, it also will not proc against. With that being said however, on Single Target, it is quite good. Here is an example from 1 of the different rotation tests I did vs 1st boss etos:
As you can see, it is quite a sizeable portion of CW damage and imo, this potentially means Oppressor will have a place in the meta if nothing else changes, as a single target loadout.
Here is a link to my comparison for weapon enchantments in mod 13 for CW. This may change however as it is based on the way stuff currently works on preview. The Tl;DR is Feytouched or Dread.
I dislike the changes to Storm Spell. I would not have made it crit. Compared to other class features, it was already good and it was contesting for the role as second class feature used by CW. By making it crit, they are essentially making it a complete no brainer in every single circumstance, it eliminates any choice between class features. I would rather they had increased the base damage of all CW powers then they make Storm Spell crit and then improve some of the other class features, so that CW has some choice. Furthermore, by making Storm Spell crit, it widens the gap in DpS between MoF and SS, essentially pushing 1 paragon quite a bit further ahead of the other. The change of CP working on Smoulder does not compare at all to this.
Secondly, I dislike the change to the Oppressor Capstone. The Oppressor is supposed to be the control path, not the damage path. Sure, this now means that every path on CW is playable, with Thaum as AoE, Oppressor as single target and then Renegade a support role, it comes at the cost of CW losing its identity as a controller. We have no path dedicated to control, the fundamental purpose of the class is gone. I would rather they had put some effort into making a controller viable then made oppressor a dps path.
Thirdly, I do not like the changes to Weapon Enchantments at all. In mod 12b, CW has choice when it comes to what enchant we slot. Come mod 13, we are losing a lot of these choices, for no reason other than the devs don't like us multiproccing stuff. At this point we have to ask ourselves, what was the purpose of the weapon enchant rework? To give GWF some new toys? Since GWF is the only class that can justify using anything except Feytouched, Dread and Vorpal if your goal is to DPS. If they want to see some diversity in what Weapon Enchantments people use, then they will have to rework them again, since unless you spam at wills only, there is no way these enchants will ever be good for you as they currently stand. I feel like the change to Storm Spell and Shatter Strike were to compensate CW for the Weapon Enchantment change. Actually, more to the point, I feel like what they did was they took a class that was functioning fine, they then went and broke something on it that they didn't like and are now trying to fix the problem they created by breaking it, by randomly changing other stuff. I don't think that now is the time to make changes to CWs, especially changes as significant as this.
Finally, I think that there will be a lot of negative backlash as a result of these changes when they go live. Any CWs who do not know how to adapt to them quickly, will 100% feel nerfed. Without adapting, making new loadouts and changing gear, you won't perform as well (or better) than you used to. Since not everyone adapts quickly, I feel you will hear a lot more complaints then stories of CWs performing amazingly.
So, how does Shatter Strike work? Well, it only procs on control immune targets, for 33% of your weapon damage (before buffs). It procs the following number of times on CW powers:
As you can see, most of its potential comes on Icy Terrain, Steal Time, Conduit of Ice and Storm Pillar however some of that potential is lost as the types of enemies you would want to use Steal Time and Icy Terrain on, it also will not proc against. With that being said however, on Single Target, it is quite good. Here is an example from 1 of the different rotation tests I did vs 1st boss etos:
As you can see, it is quite a sizeable portion of CW damage and imo, this potentially means Oppressor will have a place in the meta if nothing else changes, as a single target loadout.
Here is a link to my comparison for weapon enchantments in mod 13 for CW. This may change however as it is based on the way stuff currently works on preview. The Tl;DR is Feytouched or Dread.
I dislike the changes to Storm Spell. I would not have made it crit. Compared to other class features, it was already good and it was contesting for the role as second class feature used by CW. By making it crit, they are essentially making it a complete no brainer in every single circumstance, it eliminates any choice between class features. I would rather they had increased the base damage of all CW powers then they make Storm Spell crit and then improve some of the other class features, so that CW has some choice. Furthermore, by making Storm Spell crit, it widens the gap in DpS between MoF and SS, essentially pushing 1 paragon quite a bit further ahead of the other. The change of CP working on Smoulder does not compare at all to this.
Secondly, I dislike the change to the Oppressor Capstone. The Oppressor is supposed to be the control path, not the damage path. Sure, this now means that every path on CW is playable, with Thaum as AoE, Oppressor as single target and then Renegade a support role, it comes at the cost of CW losing its identity as a controller. We have no path dedicated to control, the fundamental purpose of the class is gone. I would rather they had put some effort into making a controller viable then made oppressor a dps path.
Thirdly, I do not like the changes to Weapon Enchantments at all. In mod 12b, CW has choice when it comes to what enchant we slot. Come mod 13, we are losing a lot of these choices, for no reason other than the devs don't like us multiproccing stuff. At this point we have to ask ourselves, what was the purpose of the weapon enchant rework? To give GWF some new toys? Since GWF is the only class that can justify using anything except Feytouched, Dread and Vorpal if your goal is to DPS. If they want to see some diversity in what Weapon Enchantments people use, then they will have to rework them again, since unless you spam at wills only, there is no way these enchants will ever be good for you as they currently stand. I feel like the change to Storm Spell and Shatter Strike were to compensate CW for the Weapon Enchantment change. Actually, more to the point, I feel like what they did was they took a class that was functioning fine, they then went and broke something on it that they didn't like and are now trying to fix the problem they created by breaking it, by randomly changing other stuff. I don't think that now is the time to make changes to CWs, especially changes as significant as this.
Finally, I think that there will be a lot of negative backlash as a result of these changes when they go live. Any CWs who do not know how to adapt to them quickly, will 100% feel nerfed. Without adapting, making new loadouts and changing gear, you won't perform as well (or better) than you used to. Since not everyone adapts quickly, I feel you will hear a lot more complaints then stories of CWs performing amazingly.
Post edited by thefabricant on
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Comments
"additionaly your control powers"
the numbers coming from your control powers are lesser than the shater strike that should happen. Are 126 while we see 165.
disintegrate- ray are not contol powers but in your table you are showing us proc it so procs from those are bugs.
▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁
So lets say I play with CoI (ability coefficient 1.8), Terrain (3.11), Steal Time (2.57) and Disintegrate (4.34) then Dread is BIS?
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Two Towers
Do both Shatter Strike and Shatter work with Dread and does it work with Soul Sight Crystal?
In your opinion is Shatter Strike worth getting compared to the Thaum tree with all its buff/ procs for a boss fight where only 1 target is immune to control? That being said, it looks very good for the giant's ascent in FBI.
so you know we can have "control cws again * and control mobs for more then a fraction of mili second especially at mid to high levels of content
the other 2 cws paths are for damage and group buffs
wtf
In my opinion, Oppressor has better single target than thaum assuming you stack recovery and invest in elemental reinforcement rather than taking spell twisting. I agree 100%.
Firstly, I dislike the changes to Storm Spell. I would not have made it crit. Compared to other class features, it was already good and it was contesting for the role as second class feature used by CW. By making it crit, they are essentially making it a complete no brainer in every single circumstance, it eliminates any choice between class features. I would rather they had increased the base damage of all CW powers then they make Storm Spell crit and then improve some of the other class features, so that CW has some choice. Furthermore, by making Storm Spell crit, it widens the gap in DpS between MoF and SS, essentially pushing 1 paragon quite a bit further ahead of the other. The change of CP working on Smoulder does not compare at all to this.
Secondly, I dislike the change to the Oppressor Capstone. The Oppressor is supposed to be the control path, not the damage path. Sure, this now means that every path on CW is playable, with Thaum as AoE, Oppressor as single target and then Renegade a support role, it comes at the cost of CW losing its identity as a controller. We have no path dedicated to control, the fundamental purpose of the class is gone. I would rather they had put some effort into making a controller viable then made oppressor a dps path.
Thirdly, I do not like the changes to Weapon Enchantments at all. In mod 12b, CW has choice when it comes to what enchant we slot. Come mod 13, we are losing a lot of these choices, for no reason other than the devs don't like us multiproccing stuff. At this point we have to ask ourselves, what was the purpose of the weapon enchant rework? To give GWF some new toys? Since GWF is the only class that can justify using anything except Feytouched, Dread and Vorpal if your goal is to DPS. If they want to see some diversity in what Weapon Enchantments people use, then they will have to rework them again, since unless you spam at wills only, there is no way these enchants will ever be good for you as they currently stand. I feel like the change to Storm Spell and Shatter Strike were to compensate CW for the Weapon Enchantment change. Actually, more to the point, I feel like what they did was they took a class that was functioning fine, they then went and broke something on it that they didn't like and are now trying to fix the problem they created by breaking it, by randomly changing other stuff. I don't think that now is the time to make changes to CWs, especially changes as significant as this.
Finally, I think that there will be a lot of negative backlash as a result of these changes when they go live. Any CWs who do not know how to adapt to them quickly, will 100% feel nerfed. Without adapting, making new loadouts and changing gear, you won't perform as well (or better) than you used to. Since not everyone adapts quickly, I feel you will hear a lot more complaints then stories of CWs performing amazingly.
You are saying chilling presence to boost smolder is not enough that saying the patch notes. But when you play in preview everything boost smolder and other classes buffs. ( soul crystal seems only not working)>.
2nd The shattered strike again in preview shows that the damage should come from the control powers.
SO i believe is not safe to make theory or create new cw builds when we are not sure what will be at the end.
> So, after some time my thoughts on this change are the following (I will add them to the original post as well):
>
> Firstly, I dislike the changes to Storm Spell. I would not have made it crit. Compared to other class features, it was already good and it was contesting for the role as second class feature used by CW. By making it crit, they are essentially making it a complete no brainer in every single circumstance, it eliminates any choice between class features. I would rather they had increased the base damage of all CW powers then they make Storm Spell crit and then improve some of the other class features, so that CW has some choice. Furthermore, by making Storm Spell crit, it widens the gap in DpS between MoF and SS, essentially pushing 1 paragon quite a bit further ahead of the other. The change of CP working on Smoulder does not compare at all to this.
>
> Secondly, I dislike the change to the Oppressor Capstone. The Oppressor is supposed to be the control path, not the damage path. Sure, this now means that every path on CW is playable, with Thaum as AoE, Oppressor as single target and then Renegade a support role, it comes at the cost of CW losing its identity as a controller. We have no path dedicated to control, the fundamental purpose of the class is gone. I would rather they had put some effort into making a controller viable then made oppressor a dps path.
>
> Thirdly, I do not like the changes to Weapon Enchantments at all. In mod 12b, CW has choice when it comes to what enchant we slot. Come mod 13, we are losing a lot of these choices, for no reason other than the devs don't like us multiproccing stuff. At this point we have to ask ourselves, what was the purpose of the weapon enchant rework? To give GWF some new toys? Since GWF is the only class that can justify using anything except Feytouched, Dread and Vorpal if your goal is to DPS. If they want to see some diversity in what Weapon Enchantments people use, then they will have to rework them again, since unless you spam at wills only, there is no way these enchants will ever be good for you as they currently stand. I feel like the change to Storm Spell and Shatter Strike were to compensate CW for the Weapon Enchantment change. Actually, more to the point, I feel like what they did was they took a class that was functioning fine, they then went and broke something on it that they didn't like and are now trying to fix the problem they created by breaking it, by randomly changing other stuff. I don't think that now is the time to make changes to CWs, especially changes as significant as this.
>
> Finally, I think that there will be a lot of negative backlash as a result of these changes when they go live. Any CWs who do not know how to adapt to them quickly, will 100% feel nerfed. Without adapting, making new loadouts and changing gear, you won't perform as well (or better) than you used to. Since not everyone adapts quickly, I feel you will hear a lot more complaints then stories of CWs performing amazingly.
I agree with the Storm Spell being a no brainier now, same with Chilling Presence. But I like Storm Spell critting as makes Dread/Vorpal more of an alternative compared to other weapon enchants. I think if they reduced it damage by somewhat and let it crit, it'd be more balanced in general. By keeping it the way it is, they just moved one overpowered thing to compensate another. I do like Storm Spell, its an awesome power, with awesome effects but with the way it will be in m13 it screams nerf me. They will probably nerf storm spell at a later mod, just as people begin to like their builds for the sake of 'balancing'. Increasing the damage of our powers is needed and more balanced.
The Oppressor Capstone needs replacing, its outdated. But until control is back in they game, it wont be worth it. In my opinion, Assailing Force needs updating even more, for a capstone on a near BIS wizard, it lacks. It does around 5% of my overall damage compared to other feats, its not great. I have noticed this power doesn't scale very well because a lower level wizard can find Assailant dealing 10%+. There are other feats that need replacing too, but i doubt this would happen because there's probably a new class coming soon and it will get pushed aside.
Totally agree with the changes to weapon enchants with no attempt to even make them viable. If they had to nerf it, they should have made it deal more damage on the first tick of IT/COI/OF, than its normal damage. I don't like how they did it and they didn't even do it properly, some powers don't even proc them at all and some don't proc them when they should (like the ones you mentioned as well as Chilling Cloud doesn't on the final cast, and Magic Missile doesn't properly on 3rd/4th/5th cast, at least that what someone said on the preview forums) Also I heard some powers from other classes can still multi proc them, that's not very fair (SWs BoVA basically a entity power attached to your toon and OPs Buring Light?). I do think they should reevaluate weapon enchants together.
The Oppressor Capstone needs replacing, its outdated. But until control is back in they game, it wont be worth it. In my opinion, Assailing Force needs updating even more, for a capstone on a near BIS wizard, it lacks. It does around 5% of my overall damage compared to other feats, its not great. I have noticed this power doesn't scale very well because a lower level wizard can find Assailant dealing 10%+. There are other feats that need replacing too, but i doubt this would happen because there's probably a new class coming soon and it will get pushed aside.
Totally agree with you, the changes to weapon enchants were not needed or wanted and we have no choice now between the ones we have come m13. If they had to nerf it, they should have made it deal more damage on the first tick of IT/COI/OF, than its normal damage. I don't like how they did it and they didn't even do it properly, some powers don't even proc them at all and some don't proc them when they should (like the ones you mentioned as well as Chilling Cloud doesn't on the final cast, and Magic Missile doesn't properly on 3rd/4th/5th cast, at least that what someone said on the preview forums) Also I heard some powers from other classes can still multi proc them, that's not very fair (SWs BoVA basically a entity power attached to your toon and OPs Buring Light?). I do think they should reevaluate weapon enchants together.
For chilling presence you need to freeze monsters to get 96% boost. Most of the times monsters are dead before even they get the frozen status. On boss fight not all builds are with the icy veins but even if were is just a 48% boost.
Blightning power is 19% damage boost ( due a bug) but again for the cold spells.
Elemental reinforcment need 3 different element encounters to get the 15% boost.
Tempest magic when your targets under 30% hp.
Malevolent surge when you kill an enemy.
frozen power transfer get in order three monsters to achieve 15 % buff.
Arcane stacks you need your opressive force in aoe situation to get 5.
SO we have multipliers under condition and chilling presence is "cheese"?
totally different world totally different builds
now if we could only get assailing forced buffed again and it be piecing non deflect able again in pvp lol :P
They really killed the MoF DPS build with this update. Not liking it at all.
As for weapon enchantment update 13, where is that info, I definitely missed it.
> @terramak said:
> Combat and Powers, pt. 2
> Classes and Balance
> * Weapon Enchantments and Multi-Proccing
> * Various powers, across many classes, have been adjusted to trigger one weapon enchantment proc per target, per activation. (Example: A single activation against 5 enemies can proc up to 5 times.)
>
> * Various powers that previously did not proc weapon enchantments at all have been updated to properly proc them.
>
Base CA Damage bonus is 15%, and if you chose 13 Cha at the start, make it your other level up stat for another 7 points, have campfire bonus, that's another 11% from Cha. The CA Damage bonus rating easily adds another 8% for a total of 34%, multiplied by Drow Ambush Tactics to 37.4%.
So without even accounting for a potential 2 more Cha from your belt or race Cha bonus, companion CAD bonuses, or maybe 5% from Combatant's Manuever, you're already close to 250% Crit Severity + CAD, the break point where Fey is always better. None of the above things are actually rare or expensive for any CW that's correctly specced.
Note to thefabricant: Is Focused Wizardry a factor in the calculations, particularly wrt the 3 procs, and would it still be meta?