To the Devs, A Fleshed out Suggestion for PVP Rewards

kalina311

oh you mean this line that i said "or leader has initiated undeclineable pvp Q... accept / decline" : D
good so when do we get started programming lol : D

however this works good for pve too where players get put into places they dont want to be ...so justify more the dev costs / resources

i did not litterly mean for it to say does not meet requirements of coarse it should explain X reason why
many Qs fails to say a player cant join but does not say why ..item level ..boon / campaign resistances are some of the reasons that should be added to a failed group Q to help the leader...heck even lets the player know/ show too

kalina311

trgluestickz said:

kalina311 said:

transmutes are probably at the very very bottom of anyone list of meaningful useful or valuable or tradeable pvp rewards

sorry to say ...i dont understand how players get so excited for cosmetic rewards ...anyone suggesting that simply does not get it in my opinion .. i mean you wrote paragrapohs and paragraphs and pour your heart out and someone is happy and satisfied with a 1k ad transmute as a rewards ...yup someone is setting their sites and expectations really high there


you want authentic unique pvp transmute reward make it so that you whole character or mount etc can glow custom rare colors etc
or that you can actually remove the annoying armor enchant ones or turn them off not that that would be a rewards more of
QOL suggestion

While you might not personally find transmutes/cosmetics valuable, they actually are very high up on a ton of player's bucket lists. Cosmetic items/transmutes are among the most commonly requested items when any rewards improvement is discussed. Because of this, transmutes/cosmetic items should be included in a PVP rewards pass since there are a lot of people that actually do want those items.

low hanging fruit ...is all i can think of .recycled old items for costume play and roll playing ..ya its in the code so ya give it to people if they want sure *shrugs* if the transmutes had additions bonus unique stats for pvp that would be another story and under the pvp theme and reason they should be there

i dont see someone not joining/ joining pvp simply because their character does not have good fashion sense : D
so someone looks for said item they get it and then stop pvping ?...cause these transmute have to be bound right
cause if not some one does not need to pvp to get them buys them of the auctions house (diluting rarity ) and then that defeats the purpose of encouraged pvp rewards you must do and get while pvping not playing the auction house

may as well have some secret custom highly sough after pvp dyes and multicoloured potions that drop rarely and only in pvp under the same condition these as cosmetic fashion and dyes ..if players like them so much

instead of deck of
many things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deck_of_many_things

(a spell book with unlimited spell use till you turn the page/ draw a card for the next random spell and the book has Chance to be destroyed .. )

have a dye bottle of many shades etc it can randomly change to any color to be used uliminitedly ..or you can gamble on a color change and risk having the item destroyed ...every time you opt to change the color the risk of the item getting destroyed increases ..


see i can think of cool epic fashion usefull items as well : d

or a clicky item with benefits and curses .. random each time till destroyed etc

trgluestickz

kalina311 said:

trgluestickz said:

kalina311 said:

transmutes are probably at the very very bottom of anyone list of meaningful useful or valuable or tradeable pvp rewards

sorry to say ...i dont understand how players get so excited for cosmetic rewards ...anyone suggesting that simply does not get it in my opinion .. i mean you wrote paragrapohs and paragraphs and pour your heart out and someone is happy and satisfied with a 1k ad transmute as a rewards ...yup someone is setting their sites and expectations really high there


you want authentic unique pvp transmute reward make it so that you whole character or mount etc can glow custom rare colors etc
or that you can actually remove the annoying armor enchant ones or turn them off not that that would be a rewards more of
QOL suggestion

While you might not personally find transmutes/cosmetics valuable, they actually are very high up on a ton of player's bucket lists. Cosmetic items/transmutes are among the most commonly requested items when any rewards improvement is discussed. Because of this, transmutes/cosmetic items should be included in a PVP rewards pass since there are a lot of people that actually do want those items.

low hanging fruit ...is all i can think of .recycled old items for costume play and roll playing ..ya its in the code so ya give it to people if they want sure *shrugs* if the transmutes had additions bonus unique stats for pvp that would be another story and under the pvp theme and reason they should be there

i dont see someone not joining/ joining pvp simply because their character does not have good fashion sense : D
so someone looks for said item they get it and then stop pvping ?...cause these transmute have to be bound right
cause if not some one does not need to pvp to get them buys them of the auctions house (diluting rarity ) and then that defeats the purpose of encouraged pvp rewards you must do and get while pvping not playing the auction house

may as well have some secret custom highly sough after pvp dyes and multicoloured potions that drop rarely and only in pvp under the same condition these as cosmetic fashion and dyes ..if players like them so much

instead of deck of
many things
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deck_of_many_things

(a spell book with unlimited spell use till you turn the page/ draw a card for the next random spell and the book has Chance to be destroyed .. )

have a dye bottle of many shades etc it can randomly change to any color to be used uliminitedly ..or you can gamble on a color change and risk having the item destroyed ...every time you opt to change the color the risk of the item getting destroyed increases ..


see i can think of cool epic fashion usefull items as well : d

I stated that the transmutes that drop from matches in my plan would be unbound. I did this so that people could sell or trade the transmutes if they don't want them, this means there is a reason for people to keep pursuing these drops even after they have got them once. It also provides an additional way to progress in PVP since if you want essential items instead of fashion, you can sell the fashion for AD, which you can then use to buy important stuff. I also stated to make them a rare drop (some of them extreamly rare) and gate them behind winning so they can't be botted, will encourage people to make an effort to win, and won't be easy to over-supply.

I did not add any items to my plan that were 100% only obtainable through playing PVP though I am in favor of seeing some items like that getting introduced. This combined with the items you can sell would be a great 2 pronged approach to getting people to start doing more PVP.

Also I did not only advocate for bringing back old PVP gear as transmutes, I also suggested that there should be brand new seasonal ones gated behind NCL. The transmutes for this I stated would both drop in matches and be purchasable in the NCL store. The ones dropping from the match would be unbound and the ones you can buy from the store would be bound. These items would be very appealing to pursue since the ones dropping in matches would gain value over time after the season has ended. Sort of like what happened with the champion's armored bulette mount, it was released as an unbound item and many PVPers held theirs for a long time before selling them. Other PVPers wanted to keep their hard won mount and equipped it instead.

This also may solve another problem that would have sprung up for people trying to get a complete set of really rare transmutes to wear. Unlike other super rare drops you only need 1 or 2 of, you would need 4 or 5 peices to complete a PVP transmute set. Not only that but you often wouldn't get the specific one you were after when you did win a rare transmute. As an example of a similar issue, tons of people hated that you couldn't trade legendary rings you won but didn't need for the ones you actually needed. My system will ease this issue some by making it so you can trade a transmute you won but didn't want with another player who got the one you wanted. You can also sell your transmute and use the AD to buy a different one you wanted that has a similar value. There will be other items that are less rare but still valuble you can obtain through PVP as well. This will make it so eventually, even if you didn't win 4 or 5 super rare transmute peices to trade/sell for the set you wanted, you will eventually amass enough AD to buy the set peices you were missing on the AH.

I also want to see more PVE gear get introduced that is sellable/tradeable but that is a discussion for a different time.

kalina311

who said the transmutes "had" to be sets : D
who said you "had" to have the whole set that is why it is Rare/ ultra rare like +5 rings .. lol

where is the honor and prestige in wearing unique fought for items in pvp when rewards are trivialised and devalued and waterdown and trade able like candy (same thing happened with dungeons rewards and the keygate fiasco people wanted stuff to trade and sell to be valuable ..yet they wanted easy drops and "full value" from their key ..cant have both when the market is/gets flooded ) ..perhaps the items should have some randomised stats and be trade-able then people can make some ads from pvp

ya some items must be only pvp obtainable as incentives .. cause 99.9% of them are pve only obtainable

trgluestickz

kalina311 said:

who said the transmutes "had" to be sets : D
who said you "had" to have the whole set that is why it is Rare lol

where is the honor and prestige in wearing unique fought for items in pvp when rewards are trivialised and devalued and waterdown and trade able like candy (same thing happen with dungeons rewards and they key fiasco people wanted stuff to trade and sell to be valuable ..yet they wanted easy drops and "value" from thier key ..cant have both when the maeket is flooded ) ..perhaps the items should have some randomised stats and be tradeable then people can make some ads from pvp

ya some items must be only pvp obtainable as incentives .. cause 99.9% of them are pve only obtainable

Well I did say some of the transmutes would be old previously discontinued PVP sets. The transmutes you obtain in PVP don't all have to be in set form but I did imply that at least some of them would be complete sets.

That and even if the PVP transmutes were all single piece items and not sets, some people would still want several specific pieces to wear. So whether PVP transmutes are all part of a set or not, making it so they are both bind on pickup and really rare would result in similar issues.

Also, I just explained in my previous post that the PVP rewards wouldn't all end up devalued and I made sure to put good safeguards in place to ensure that.

Also, about the key thing, you can get both "value for your key" and have some things be rare. You just need to make it so people receive a decent amount of basic loot if they don't win the really rare thing. Your randomizing gear stats idea would be an another good way to help safeguard value. Similarly for the basic loot, you can help safeguard it's value by making a really big loot table where each loot tier has a long list of items with similar value that could potentially drop but which ones you get is randomized.

kalina311

another subtopic having unique or rare items to sell from winning/ playing pvp for ads that will also exist in common form with most of thier power intact ... just the high end sought after for ones are slightly better 5%-10% therefore not too overpowering and even if someones payed to win and was one of the first to have them they would only be very slightly better in that item slot to make it fair/ balanced for others with the easy obtainable free common ones

heck even if some randomized pvp stat item (bound on pickup/ trade-able )was only 1% or 2% better then the regular people would pay millions for it for the slight advantage / presitge and it would not be game breaking and still be rewarding

trgluestickz

kalina311 said:

another subtopic having unique or rare items to sell from winning/ playing pvp for ads that will also exist in common form with most of thier power intact ... just the high end sought after for ones are slightly better 5%-10% therefore not too overpowering and even if someones payed to win and was one of the first to have them they would only be very slightly better in that item slot to make it fair/ balanced for others with the easy obtainable free common ones

heck even if some randomized pvp stat item (bound on pickup/ trade-able )was only 1% or 2% better then the regular people would pay millions for it for the slight advantage / presitge and it would not be game breaking and still be rewarding

This random stats idea of yours would be a really good idea. This idea has been brought up on the forums before over a different issue. People for both PVP and PVE want to see more variety for gear stats. Right now every set is grouped into Raid/Assault and Executioner/Duelist sets. Neither of which ever feature ideal stats for everyone. You are right that unbound gear dropping with a random assortment of stats would be a great value safeguard and a great way to motivate people to keep coming back for the same items.

kalina311

yup I agree Pvp needs additional "keep them coming back for more" rewards . items : D
to get people hocked again : P

perhaps guild vouchers should drop as well to help in the construction of guild pvp structures or speed up progression of the power boon which currently needs concorer shards ..

teucer

That's a decent hook right there. Want to build PvP, put the right incentive(s) in place. The Conquerors Shard of Power would be a starting point to see if more peeps PvP. Does not have to drop every game but enough to get guildies engaged in PvP.

trgluestickz

kalina311 said:

yup I agree Pvp needs additional "keep them coming back for more" rewards . items : D
to get people hocked again : P

perhaps guild vouchers should drop as well to help in the construction of guild pvp structures or speed up progression of the power boon which currently needs concorer shards ..

I included an upgrade to the guild vouchers awarded in siege PVP in my plan. The vouchers you usually get in siege are the crappy green ones and sometimes blue ones. I suggested that only purple vouchers should drop on a win instead of blue and green vouchers.

As a possible way to improve my plan, I think it would be good to make it so you can buy vouchers with glory in addition to my suggestion for updating siege PVP vouchers.

As for my specific suggestions for conqueror's shards, I suggested making it so guantlgrym and siege award conqueror's shards every time you win a match up to a weekly cap. As a way of encouraging people to do more siege and gauntlgrym PVP, I didn't suggest a conqueror's shards update for domination PVP. Instead, domination will just keep the daily conqueror's shards quest it currently has. That, and leaving this quest in will ensure that 100% PVE only guilds can still get the bare minimum shards they need by doing 1 abandoned black ice dom match a day. Doing gauntlgrym and siege PVP would then become a nice tempting way for people to speed up progression for their power boon/PVP structures.

jonkoca

How about an alternate boon path..? Let's say each match won, where you either killed another player, or resuscitated/ greatly healed one of your own teammates, or whatever would make it hard to bot, rewarded you with a token to save toward boon X from one of the campaigns you hated - looking at you stormking - pvp'ers kinda hate being forced to pve, and pve'ers might prefer some help getting through some of the more tiresome campaigns.

It would be really nice if these tokens were unbound, and auctionable tbh.

The truly randomizing, cannot be declined Q is also a must I agree.

chiennedeluxe

I agree with trgluestickz.

Also, how come we dont have a 3v3 arena yet? (no capture the point just a plain and simple arena).

thestia

On rare rewards from pvp... I agree that you can't maintain value with the market flooded with unbound items, but also who wants more rewards, bound or not, vanity or otherwise, tied to RNG? I think rare rewards should be tied to a unique currency obtained after completing certain repeatable milestones.

kalina311

sure why not lets have some of that too *shrugs* and have ultra rare rewards be rng then ...
ok fine opposite side of the coin have said items drop and let the player decide what stats to allocate from a buy in pool ..
and improve/ upgrade the items pvp stats/powers with such coins,

trgluestickz

thestia said:

On rare rewards from pvp... I agree that you can't maintain value with the market flooded with unbound items, but also who wants more rewards, bound or not, vanity or otherwise, tied to RNG? I think rare rewards should be tied to a unique currency obtained after completing certain repeatable milestones.

I don't think mixing in some RNG based rewards that can drop on a win will be a problem as long as that isn't the only way to get good stuff from PVP. Your suggestion also seems viable though. You could have a separate currency that you only get on a win that you can save up to buy unbound stuff instead of these items requiring RNG. I did not make any specific suggestions for how best to rework the veteran PVP campaign but your idea of repeatable tasks that grant good rewards could be also be used as part of a good campaign fix.

There should be a new currency created that you only get on a win if we gated the unbound PVP rewards behind currencies. Another option would be to make NCL permanent as I suggested and use NCL win only currency for unbound rewards. I had previously suggested that the NCL store sell bound rewards while unbound versions of those same rewards would have a chance to drop from won matches; its not essential for it to work like this though. Seals of triumph because of being subject to a daily limit, shouldn't be used as the primary win currency for buying unbound rewards but they could make up part of the price tag for some items.

If the veteran campaign is given repeatable tasks you can use to get good rewards, other milestones besides winning could be used for acquiring some items. Such as reworked leaderboard achievements. For example, there could be a milestone task for getting the majority of your kills on node for X number of matches. This task would be repeatable and grant a really nice reward each time you complete it.

jonkoca

Lol, I just had an awsome, though in retrospect, completely obvious idea.

In PVE we have drops from bosses, so in PvP, with enemy players in place of bosses, we should get drops when we kill someone.

Drop quality based on enemy gearscore, so if you kill an 8k nub, you get HAMSTER, but if you kill a 17k bis GF you get something wildly better. Etc.

Fun, and guessing, very difficult to bot.

Godfinder farm anyone..?

kalina311

.

kalina311

@jonkoca


just let coupons usable for pvp stuff/ accomplishments./ kills etc drop ..and at the END of the match.. we dont need even more extra distracting things floating on the battlefield causing even more lag ...


where is the benefit for top end players then for getting ganked ? what do they get if they dont get farmed .what do they get if they withstand 3 attackers for a minute trolling them and ignoring caps ....lol ..nothing




and ya very easy to exploit and bot
unless it uses the tong loot tables for ultimate enchants lol

jonkoca

Damn, I was hoping to start a whole '#farmGodfinder' movement in pvp.

Does kinda get a free win though, if the whole other team is intent on creating a Godfinder shaped stain on the ground to the exclusion of any other aim.

trgluestickz

jonkoca said:

Lol, I just had an awsome, though in retrospect, completely obvious idea.

In PVE we have drops from bosses, so in PvP, with enemy players in place of bosses, we should get drops when we kill someone.

Drop quality based on enemy gearscore, so if you kill an 8k nub, you get HAMSTER, but if you kill a 17k bis GF you get something wildly better. Etc.

Fun, and guessing, very difficult to bot.

Godfinder farm anyone..?

As interesting as it would be to have a working bounty system on the heads of strong players, this idea as you have described it would most likely fail in practice. It would also be very easy to bot. People would just set up farms where BIS players would take turns killing eachother for easy money. The exception is if whatever you got for killing people was so close to worthless that people wouldn't bother farming it (looking at you scrimshaw trophies). Either that, or the reward would have to be a chance drop and that % chance would need to be so low that there would be no point in there being a bounty system at all.

I did try to think of a way to get a bounty system working but there are a lot of holes to plug in order to get it to a point where it could work. I have taken a crack at it below but I guarentee you there is something important I have missed here:

The ganking issue could be solved by making it so the bounty system only applies to 1v1 fights. For example, if X player has been hit by multiple players recently, nothing drops if he dies.

If the rewards people get for killing X player were based on X player's leaderboard score + other factors like X player's IL and X player's PVP campaign progress, that could work. For example, if X player's death counter is too high in proportion to the rest of his PVP scores, no bounty will drop if he is killed. If X player has not accomplished much in PVP yet, no bounty will drop if he is killed either. This would make it so any farming attempts are short lived since in order for someone to farm you for the bounty, they have to run up your death counter. The progress requirements would make it so you couldn't just make and delete new toons to farm each time your death counter gets too high (unbottable, in other words).

As for how to reward X player for successfully preventing other players from cashing in on the bounty on his head, there would probably need to be a repeatable milestone achievement for this. As an example, when X player thwarts others from collecting the bounty on his head enough times, X player will get extra rewards for killing other players with bounties on their heads. This rewards buff goes away the next time X player is killed.

I get the feeling that this idea would be a lot of work to code. Its a cool concept but may not be worth the trouble even if I was sure I put enough safeguards to get it working.

kalina311

A known Bis Gf player just bought 99 scrolls of power off me for 500,000 ads : D lol no doubt for pve ...

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barthan

All great ideas but they are just that. There are no dev's that are able to make a game decision period. Wasting your time over and over. How many years have we been over this. Have you ever received a responded back from a dev. Nope never will. There contract is for releasing mods every 3 month and they have to hit there goals nothing more.

callidus1986

Waste of time not worth PvPing anymore fix damn SoD Trs god sakes

kalina311

at the risk of getting necormancied this thread is still very important and hardly anyone suggested anything or participated folks

demonmonger

The best pvp bounty system would be... stay alive for as long as you can.... someone kills you then they ruin the streak... this would be harder to bot.

slysnow

Remove all benefits from gear from pve stuff in pvp. Curse bringer ring, under dark rings, hunt gear etc. If it's not pvp gear its effects do not work in pvp. Only that gears stats should count in pvp.

That would go a long way towards balance imo.

demonmonger

> @slysnow#2290 said:
> Remove all benefits from gear from pve stuff in pvp. Curse bringer ring, under dark rings, hunt gear etc. If it's not pvp gear its effects do not work in pvp. Only that gears stats should count in pvp.
>
> That would go a long way towards balance imo.

Remove healing depression...
Remove barrier temp hp shield depression..

demonmonger

Remove cc immunity after several casts!

jonkoca

God no, don't remove those, everyone would be immortal again.