@rjc9000 my main being a GWF, I just had a blast, you made my day. Question, can I copy that and use it in my alliance discord? Unfortunately there are many GWF's like that, some of them we/I can help some people just don't want to listen. We had a ToNG run (me on my OP) and the q leader was a 15.7K GWF. During the Orcus fight he was crying buff me, still not providing any damage. I checked him out .... 32% RI, 40% crit chance, but over 30K base recovery - got to spam that IBS. >:) I was offering advice and was called a noob. Another one on my ignore list.
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
@rjc9000 my main being a GWF, I just had a blast, you made my day. Question, can I copy that and use it in my alliance discord? Unfortunately there are many GWF's like that, some of them we/I can help some people just don't want to listen. We had a ToNG run (me on my OP) and the q leader was a 15.7K GWF. During the Orcus fight he was crying buff me, still not providing any damage. I checked him out .... 32% RI, 40% crit chance, but over 30K base recovery - got to spam that IBS. >:) I was offering advice and was called a noob. Another one on my ignore list.
It´s like throwing a coin when you invite a random GWF as main dps. Sadly a lot of them feel like a hdps. The mayority mix up "trash bashing" by spamming WMS with high damage output on one target. If my warlock deals more focus damage than the GWF, he is doing a bad job. Only pro about that class is the fact that GWF is a tank and a dps at same time.
A lot of those random runs are made like OP-GF-DC-DC-GWF... these are the most tanky classes in the game, with the most tools for mitigation on top...Circle of power, Knights Valor, Hallowed ground, Astral shield, Devine Glow and Unstoppable on top. A mix of most tanky with most buffs, and to some degree most dps (GWF and very few GF´s), something to think about cryptic.
Again? A GWF is a Tank and a DPS at the same time? Beside the fact we need to stand very close to mobs/bosses and beside the fact we cant get immune ( dont talk about that dailie....thats not really a skill to compare!)if we got enough stamina like other classes so we need a lot def, can you explain where excactly are GWFs some kind of tank? Im just curious. Thanks
Well if the squishy stands on HG, Astral Shield and Circle of Power, the squishy is just as tanky as the GWF standing on HG, Astral Shield and Circle of Power. But yes my GWF is more tanky for example: when my GWF or my CW run ahead of the tank in FBI (hill), mSP and ToNG, my GWF survives 0.9 seconds, my CW only 0.8 seconds.
Post edited by demolitioninc#2453 on
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
Maybe its a feature. "You got a chance to get an non laggy tong run equal to the chance getting an ultimate stone". If this is the case, lemme know plz. So i know i get every 99th run a lag free frun. Thx.
Well if the squishy stands on HG, Astral Shield and Circle of Power, the squishy is just as tanky as the GWF standing on HG, Astral Shield and Circle of Power. But yes my GWF is more tanky for example: when my GWF or my CW run ahead of the tank in FBI (hill), mSP and ToNG, my GWF survives 0.9 seconds, my CW only 0.8 seconds.
Simply wrong and only an indicator that you are somehow underperforming on your GWF, you re not allone I am sure.
In the sum: 1. You avoid 30% of incoming damage + a big chunk of temp HP (32% of your max HP) 2. can push your DR for huge ammounts from feats and powers 3. can debuff your target to avoid incoming damage up to 35% + Slam 4. get a 3.5 second immunityframe on top Enough for skilled player to work arround and solo bosses I am sure
I witnessed myself at near every single boss in this game that a GWF with decent gear and lifesteal is capable to tank: Orcus, Hati, Turtle, Drufi, Nostura and all other bosses in mSP. All these GWF are Destroyer, obviuosly Destroyer = tank+dps I myself tanked Orcus with low level gear on my GWF several times BEFORE he got nerfed, modified setup as sentinel to tbh (only issue was the aggromanagement). And no DC there to pop anything for me. I saw several GWF with endgear having no issues as Destroyer spec to tank thet boss before nerf.
Yesterday I went random mSP, the only class that survived at last boss and stayed alive with compareable low gear was a GWF, surviving solo for ages in there. Only few other class are able to do so, get damaged pop Unstoppable, lifesteal to full health , repeat ...
If you go Tong and spend your GWF some DR, I am pretty sure you can tank those bosses as a destroyer, and I am 100% sure some allready did. Maybe some skill is involved at last boss to avoid the frontside smash and the DOT.
GWF is not a tank? Any other striker has compareable feats and powers like that? Apart from that 08/15 "Hakn'slash-build" this class has by sure tank abilities ! Before temp HP nerf that class soloed near everything in NWO, only to remind some player, watch those older Lazalia videos.... no tank, lol Or watch those vids from Prokiller/thefabricant or Wicked Duck or any other GWF with some gear and skill, duoing FBI. But don´t blame that GWF avoiding big hits please (they are skilled) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWNm1-4g_Ko&t=330s
I quit the discussion when I see microseconds offered as a valid source for the argumentation...
The picture /random comic, saliently explained the main issue with the class through a satiric concept. It not being subtle about it perfectly fits the comical tone of how many GWFs are actually doing just that.
As for the "hacker", I've been called that twice by two different GWFs in a skirmish that was held not so long ago. Wasn't expecting that but made me laugh
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
Again? A GWF is a Tank and a DPS at the same time? Beside the fact we need to stand very close to mobs/bosses and beside the fact we cant get immune ( dont talk about that dailie....thats not really a skill to compare!)if we got enough stamina like other classes so we need a lot def, can you explain where excactly are GWFs some kind of tank? Im just curious. Thanks
I do not main a GWF, however isn't one of the core mechanics of the GWF to build up the Determination, correct? And one of the best ways to do it is by taking the damage, correct? So it figures out to build a lot of defense, correct? And defense is a trait of a tanky class, correct?
Am I missing something here? Please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
GWF is not a tank? Any other striker has compareable feats and powers like that? Apart from that 08/15 "Hakn'slash-build" this class has by sure tank abilities !
Ofc its a tank if the GWF do it like you posted and mix SM and IV together ( Maybe only GWFs can do this). Ofc you can tank if you spend points in senseless feasts that no DPS use. Whats next? GWF can CC too? Sry...but i give up. Its senseless. Lets fight all together against this unfair/totally op class GWF. Thats unbelievable...srly.
@schietindebux since you quoted from Neverwinter gamepedia - read the description for GWF there - striker/defender. Just by reading that, yes there is tankiness in the glass, it is designed like that so WAI. Some of the features you quoted are gated behind the IV paragon path (Indomitable Strength, Ferocious Reaction - btwwould use a talent that triggers only every 90 sec cmon). which nobody uses. No matter how many features you quote, if they exceed 95% damage resist they become useless in PvE because the game hardcaps (80% plus 15% RI from some special monsters and bosses) and 95% damage resist can be reached by any class in the game in a decent party. And you are also are stating some features and powers that nobody uses. If you put points in armor_spec and UbiShield you miss out on crit chances and crit severity and so on. Since you play a GWF, I suggest spent feature points in them and use these talents and see how good and efficient your GWF will be. You are stating GWF tanking and soloing bosses as proof how tanky they are. Well, take that same GWF and tell him to solo FBI up the hill. That hill and FBI has been soloed by CWs, HR and TR. No GWF has ever done that....
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
GWF is not a tank? Any other striker has compareable feats and powers like that? Apart from that 08/15 "Hakn'slash-build" this class has by sure tank abilities !
Ofc its a tank if the GWF do it like you posted and mix SM and IV together ( Maybe only GWFs can do this). Ofc you can tank if you spend points in senseless feasts that no DPS use. Whats next? GWF can CC too? Sry...but i give up. Its senseless. Lets fight all together against this unfair/totally op class GWF. Thats unbelievable...srly.
NO, I have no issues to fight any class. I don´t want nerfs either but only correct missing informations or ignoration of facts by pointing exactly at what you asked for, prooven by skilled player, playing the class to it´s full potential. They maybe don´t even touch the tanking tree, that does not work as should since ages, or use equip like Fey Enchants or Valalla Set.
@c1k4ml3kc3 there is a problem with detemination. In both sentinel and instigator paragon pathes determination is only build when loosing hitpoints so only post mitgigated damage counts. Problem with todays PvE dungeons, most monsters hit so hard that you are dead before determination is up. Things like steel defense after daily and countless scars require you to do rare dailies and or get hit beforehand. Only the destroyer capstone provides a change in determination gain, saying you build determination by dealing damage. Thats the reason why destroyer is the only viable PvE talent tree to use. The other two do not provide enough determination. It is true, the GWF original design was to be used as off-tank, but in todays NWO its not viable anymore, since the GWF can not hold aggro like GF or OP's.
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
@rjc9000 my main being a GWF, I just had a blast, you made my day. Question, can I copy that and use it in my alliance discord? Unfortunately there are many GWF's like that, some of them we/I can help some people just don't want to listen. We had a ToNG run (me on my OP) and the q leader was a 15.7K GWF. During the Orcus fight he was crying buff me, still not providing any damage. I checked him out .... 32% RI, 40% crit chance, but over 30K base recovery - got to spam that IBS. >:) I was offering advice and was called a noob. Another one on my ignore list.
Yes, you, and anyone out there are free to borrow the picture.
I don´t want nerfs either but only correct missing informations or ignoration of facts by pointing exactly at what you asked for, prooven by skilled player, playing the class to it´s full potential.
You dont get it, dont ya? You just posted some nice wiki pics, BUT you mixed IV skills with SM skills. Sry, but thats just stupid. Wonder why you forgot to post unstoppable in sentinel what gives you 80% damage reduce. It looks like you got no clue...sry
I have a 17,5k GWF and i made me a loadout for a tank build including valhalla set, all what i can get on def and ofc IV with senti path. So i went in FBI and took a DC with, just to see how "good" i can tank the way to the hill. Oh yes, your sooooo damn right. Thats such a good tank...
Another example, who tanks the mobs in there? Is it the GWF first in place or the "tank"?
A totally BIS group where trash its just trash? In this group i saw HRs/SWs jumoing in front of the tank and you are asking about who "tanks" the trash? Why didnt you ask who tanks the bosses?
I think you don´t get it, don´t YA You can run IV or SW, go one or the other way, in the end your GWF is a pretty tanky class with a lot of dps. Only some noobs will deny it. Near every group inside Tong is made of OP, GF, DC, DC, GWF The most tanky classes in game paired with most buffs (GF+OP+DC), having the best mitigation tools(GF+GWF+OP+DC) and most dps (GWF+some GF). I showed you some good player tanking T2.5, i pointed at the tools you wanted to get knowledge about, you asked for, not me. It took me some time to post some feats and power, only to get rid of these silly phrases like : "Huh, GWF = tanky, a lie" that´s what clueless player post. You are simply lost or blind, lol Stop writing BS and I stop arguing about it. You lack in arguments anyway all time.
Exactly at this moment 31xDC 17xOP 12xGF 10 xGWF ----------- 12x TR/CW/Hunter/SW
Maybe one of our "GWF is the only class with bigest advantages and you only need to press one key at GWFs!" ppl can explain how this works? Or where i can find the GWF in this run? Thx a lot
Maybe ask for a buff, that you can charge IBS 3 times to be on par with GF in terms of speedkills, lol.
It's called "class change to GF".
I love players that send me tells to get skilled and get good. I usually reply with a nice comment like, "Living in your mom's basement still!" that usually shuts them up.
This is a game and the the information about what is working and what is broken the devs can review data and see where things need to be adjusted. What I do not like is that the devs stopped doing the class balancing all together. I'm guessing it is because every time they did it resulted in a pretty big up roar by the community. SW nerf, GF being OP with command strike, etc... The thing was though, I liked that devs were trying to fix classes and give us more options.
DC, HR, SW, and GF all got treatment where one build was king and now we have 2 builds for each class that are viable. Wish they would go back to that and work on TR and GWF.
The thing about Gwiffs is, Instigator kinda works, it's just not that good. Sentinel is completely broken. What they need to do is make determination come the same way on all paths - taking and doing damage. Sentinel is tanky but cant keep aggro for HAMSTER, because his aggro is DPS based, and GWFs cant do DPS without unstoppable, at all (speaking of unstoppable, devs should fix the bug I get - I can't use unstoppable if I get spooked by those snake like dudes in TNG).
@schietindebux since you quoted from Neverwinter gamepedia - read the description for GWF there - striker/defender. Just by reading that, yes there is tankiness in the glass, it is designed like that so WAI. Some of the features you quoted are gated behind the IV paragon path (Indomitable Strength, Ferocious Reaction - btwwould use a talent that triggers only every 90 sec cmon). which nobody uses. No matter how many features you quote, if they exceed 95% damage resist they become useless in PvE because the game hardcaps (80% plus 15% RI from some special monsters and bosses) and 95% damage resist can be reached by any class in the game in a decent party. And you are also are stating some features and powers that nobody uses. If you put points in armor_spec and UbiShield you miss out on crit chances and crit severity and so on. Since you play a GWF, I suggest spent feature points in them and use these talents and see how good and efficient your GWF will be. You are stating GWF tanking and soloing bosses as proof how tanky they are. Well, take that same GWF and tell him to solo FBI up the hill. That hill and FBI has been soloed by CWs, HR and TR. No GWF has ever done that....
Soloing and tanking are two different stories. The question was about GWF and tanking, wich is considered to be a no-go, due to underperforming tank tree and missing block/taunt. But I witnessed myself several Destroyer-GWF tanking content being dps and tank at once.
None of those feats I mentioned are needed to tank, except Destroyer capstone. Slam is usefull as seen in some situations and near no PVE player runs countless scars, more a PVP feat.
But again, if someone argues about GWF having no tanking tools, that´s what everyone runs or may run:
And if you read through other feats, not mentioned, you find a tank to some degree.
If I said a warlock is no striker, that message would be more substatial, since apart from a broken setup there is no way for a warlock to be a competetive striker atm, 100% not, compared to a GWF that can tank, even tough in a way it was not ment to be like. Depite that warlock has a tree with many tools to deal dps.
I think you don´t get it, don´t YA You can run IV or SW, go one or the other way, in the end your GWF is a pretty tanky class with a lot of dps. Only some noobs will deny it.
So i think im a noob and your the master of knowledge. I tried to tank the hill in FBI and got no chance at all. Plz explain what did i wrong if the GWF is such a pretty tanky class. Or....maybe you tank the hill in FBI for your self? Only noobs will deny this. I join your group just to see how good you can tank this. And your proof is a vid from a BIS group in Tong that a GWF is a tanke class? You know what mobs are doing in tong? Sry...i dont know why i event try to talk to you..its senseless. You got so much hate for one class...thats unbelievable.
I'm pretty proud of having guessed the exact order before even counting them. You can make your own conclusions, but clearly this is not even close to being balanced. There are only 26 dps classes to start with and almost half those slots are taken up by GWFs. As a TR i've completed runs with another TR, SW, HR or SW, so I guess the vast majority of other runs must have had GWFs exclusively.
I'm counting 18 instances currently, so if there are only 26 dps in total, this also means that the many of them are running with only a single dps...
Edit: I just checked again 45 minutes later and I've hit the 100 char limit so I can't see everybody, but there are ZERO TRs among those 100 persons running ToNG. Ugh...
I'm pretty proud of having guessed the exact order before even counting them. You can make your own conclusions, but clearly this is not even close to being balanced. There are only 26 dps classes to start with and almost half those slots are taken up by GWFs. As a TR i've completed runs with another TR, SW, HR or SW, so I guess the vast majority of other runs must have had GWFs exclusively.
I'm counting 18 instances currently, so if there are only 26 dps in total, this also means that the many of them are running with only a single dps...
That´s why all these threads and arguemets are not necessary, having the ultimate prove for a mismatch between classes. Some will not stop denying it, normally those player that struggle with their class and can´t imagine that others do fine.
I'm pretty proud of having guessed the exact order before even counting them. You can make your own conclusions, but clearly this is not even close to being balanced. There are only 26 dps classes to start with and almost half those slots are taken up by GWFs. As a TR i've completed runs with another TR, SW, HR or SW, so I guess the vast majority of other runs must have had GWFs exclusively.
I'm counting 18 instances currently, so if there are only 26 dps in total, this also means that the many of them are running with only a single dps...
That´s why all these threads and arguemets are not necessary, having the ultimate prove for a mismatch between classes. Some will not stop denying it, normally those player that struggle with their class and can´t imagine that others do fine.
I'm sure it's not as unbalanced in other dungeons and in solo play. The problem is that the devs have currently created a situation where only one dungeon is really worth running. I've actually started to play my alts more because once my weeklies are done, there is nothing left to do once I get my Quartermasters bag quota.
I'm not sure how long they can sustain this before it becomes a really deeper problem for the health of the community. I'm pretty certain that right now given these conditions very very few people are starting new CW/HR/SW/TR toons.
I am pretty sure it is allready a heavy problem, that only got this obvious in mod 12. A lot of player without a "favoured class" are bored or lost interest allready. That´s what I know 100%. A group made of tank-heal-3 dps is not existent to 100% in that dungeon, since I can count. Despite some will answer: "But I run with a GF-mof-TR-Hunter-DC and did fine". Those player who claim they do so, never showed up in all those month, when I pressed "O" , typed "tomb" and pressed return. 100% it´s allways the same result as above. Maybe those player run on a secret hidden server or a privat one.
Dunno what yall are saying that GWF is tanky. GWF is tanky if you spec it to be a tank, just like a DC will be DPS if you spec it to be DPS, and GF will give buffs if you spec it to be buffs. GWFs are tanky when you give them the 30 billion buffs they get. And the thing about "tankiness" - you can't just simply tank as a class with no shield. I get one-shotted just like CWs and HRs do. The only way I can tank orcus is if I got 2 DCs, a lotta damage debuffs, and the lifesteal boon (alongside some Dark enchants in defensive slots, you need a lot of lifesteal to do anything).
@c1k4ml3kc3 there is a problem with detemination. In both sentinel and instigator paragon pathes determination is only build when loosing hitpoints so only post mitgigated damage counts. Problem with todays PvE dungeons, most monsters hit so hard that you are dead before determination is up. Things like steel defense after daily and countless scars require you to do rare dailies and or get hit beforehand. Only the destroyer capstone provides a change in determination gain, saying you build determination by dealing damage. Thats the reason why destroyer is the only viable PvE talent tree to use. The other two do not provide enough determination. It is true, the GWF original design was to be used as off-tank, but in todays NWO its not viable anymore, since the GWF can not hold aggro like GF or OP's.
Thank you for your kind answer. I'll be sure to keep what you wrote in mind.
I also agree with you regarding the Destroyer build, however the class is outperforming by a longshot despite having it all narrowed in terms of the specs.
Basically, what you're saying is that the class is forced upon the player as the only viable build since anything else pales in comparison due to the hardships of the content itself.
Out of that I lead a conclusion : Instead to fix the content, devs made the classes which offer far too much support and outperform other classes by a longshot. In the process of buffing up the tanky/haling classes they outdid it and made it all HAMSTER. Tweaking just one variable in one power spell can be very damaging to the game itself because the relations between powers between the classes are not really followed to a letter.
I remember back when the Sentinel was meta due to a bug with the Come and Get it spell. It was ferociously good since it gathered the mobs around the GWF. I'd throw one Oppressive Force and a GWF would follow that up with a Come and Get it spell. It is amazing when spells are used for the sake of their mechanics and effects of the environmental degree rather than pure dps degree. That's why I always dislike when I see a DC who uses a Sunburst and puts all mobs away from the Icy Terrain. A sheer portrayal of crazy behavior.
I have this problem at the current meta since it's all Tenderize'n'Cut, tactics not needed. CC not needed. It attracts the worst type of players around whose only concern is someone's IL. This reminds me of the craze going on for the GS level. This type of flawed mentality is also another big concern I have regarding this game, but I doubt it will ever change since the coming players only see it as a determining factor of someone' skill and yet it's far from the truth.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
@schietindebux you are saying GWF have tanky tools. Well build a GWF tank and go tanking T2 dungeons. You will realize that "spoken in pictures", your tanky tools are forks and knifes but you are trying to eat a soup. And there is no spoon in your toolbox.
Post edited by demolitioninc#2453 on
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
@c1k4ml3kc3 well I didn't play Neverwinter back then in the old modules. But what you are saying sounds like a lot of fun. Actual synergies between different class powers. I would love to see it coming back as viable options. I would also like to have the sentinal path and the instigator path being back. In todays world with loadouts that could be a lot of fun. Being able to buff like the GF tacticians or have a truly tank build....I am up for it.
PzkwVI_Kingtiger - GWF
PMS-Extreme - Moffus Debuffos
Tiamat's Toyboy - OP
Rent-A-DC - 1 GMOP per 30 minutes
Officer at Civil Anarchy, Member of Fabled Alliance
Changed my mind...there is only one who knows everything in this game. Whoever tells a different story is either a noob or a liar bc we dont have hidden/privat servers. Does it hurt, scheiser?
Comments
Actually going to use this is a "GWF for Dummies" since some of mine are slacking. This will cover the basics. Ty
Unfortunately there are many GWF's like that, some of them we/I can help some people just don't want to listen. We had a ToNG run (me on my OP) and the q leader was a 15.7K GWF. During the Orcus fight he was crying buff me, still not providing any damage. I checked him out .... 32% RI, 40% crit chance, but over 30K base recovery - got to spam that IBS. >:) I was offering advice and was called a noob. Another one on my ignore list.
Sadly a lot of them feel like a hdps. The mayority mix up "trash bashing" by spamming WMS with high damage output on one target.
If my warlock deals more focus damage than the GWF, he is doing a bad job.
Only pro about that class is the fact that GWF is a tank and a dps at same time.
A lot of those random runs are made like OP-GF-DC-DC-GWF... these are the most tanky classes in the game, with the most tools for mitigation on top...Circle of power, Knights Valor, Hallowed ground, Astral shield, Devine Glow and Unstoppable on top.
A mix of most tanky with most buffs, and to some degree most dps (GWF and very few GF´s), something to think about cryptic.
Thanks
If this is the case, lemme know plz. So i know i get every 99th run a lag free frun. Thx.
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Unstoppable
Avoid 30% incoming damage on a separat layer
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Slam
A damage debuff towards your enemy
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Daring_Shout
A DR buff, forgot how much up to 20% i guess
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Wicked_Strike
3 stacks of Wicked a stacking debuff (5% per stack as far as I remember), inferior to WMS in terms of dps tbh
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ferocious_Reaction
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Steel_Defense
immunity, if you want you can time that buff if needed , lasting 3.5 sec
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Indomitable_Strength
a 20% debuff on your target
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Armor_Specialization
push your DR
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Ubiquitous_Shield
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Scale_Agility
5% deflect
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Countless_Scars
up to 15% DR , normally a PVP feature
In the sum:
1. You avoid 30% of incoming damage + a big chunk of temp HP (32% of your max HP)
2. can push your DR for huge ammounts from feats and powers
3. can debuff your target to avoid incoming damage up to 35% + Slam
4. get a 3.5 second immunityframe on top
Enough for skilled player to work arround and solo bosses I am sure
I witnessed myself at near every single boss in this game that a GWF with decent gear and lifesteal is capable to tank: Orcus, Hati, Turtle, Drufi, Nostura and all other bosses in mSP.
All these GWF are Destroyer, obviuosly Destroyer = tank+dps
I myself tanked Orcus with low level gear on my GWF several times BEFORE he got nerfed, modified setup as sentinel to tbh (only issue was the aggromanagement). And no DC there to pop anything for me. I saw several GWF with endgear having no issues as Destroyer spec to tank thet boss before nerf.
Yesterday I went random mSP, the only class that survived at last boss and stayed alive with compareable low gear was a GWF, surviving solo for ages in there. Only few other class are able to do so, get damaged pop Unstoppable, lifesteal to full health , repeat ...
If you go Tong and spend your GWF some DR, I am pretty sure you can tank those bosses as a destroyer, and I am 100% sure some allready did.
Maybe some skill is involved at last boss to avoid the frontside smash and the DOT.
GWF is not a tank?
Any other striker has compareable feats and powers like that?
Apart from that 08/15 "Hakn'slash-build" this class has by sure tank abilities !
Before temp HP nerf that class soloed near everything in NWO, only to remind some player, watch those older Lazalia videos.... no tank, lol
Or watch those vids from Prokiller/thefabricant or Wicked Duck or any other GWF with some gear and skill, duoing FBI. But don´t blame that GWF avoiding big hits please (they are skilled)
The picture /random comic, saliently explained the main issue with the class through a satiric concept. It not being subtle about it perfectly fits the comical tone of how many GWFs are actually doing just that.
As for the "hacker", I've been called that twice by two different GWFs in a skirmish that was held not so long ago. Wasn't expecting that but made me laugh
Am I missing something here? Please, anyone correct me if I'm wrong.
Sry...but i give up. Its senseless. Lets fight all together against this unfair/totally op class GWF. Thats unbelievable...srly.
No matter how many features you quote, if they exceed 95% damage resist they become useless in PvE because the game hardcaps (80% plus 15% RI from some special monsters and bosses) and 95% damage resist can be reached by any class in the game in a decent party.
And you are also are stating some features and powers that nobody uses. If you put points in armor_spec and UbiShield you miss out on crit chances and crit severity and so on. Since you play a GWF, I suggest spent feature points in them and use these talents and see how good and efficient your GWF will be.
You are stating GWF tanking and soloing bosses as proof how tanky they are. Well, take that same GWF and tell him to solo FBI up the hill. That hill and FBI has been soloed by CWs, HR and TR. No GWF has ever done that....
I don´t want nerfs either but only correct missing informations or ignoration of facts by pointing exactly at what you asked for, prooven by skilled player, playing the class to it´s full potential.
They maybe don´t even touch the tanking tree, that does not work as should since ages, or use equip like Fey Enchants or Valalla Set.
Only the destroyer capstone provides a change in determination gain, saying you build determination by dealing damage. Thats the reason why destroyer is the only viable PvE talent tree to use. The other two do not provide enough determination.
It is true, the GWF original design was to be used as off-tank, but in todays NWO its not viable anymore, since the GWF can not hold aggro like GF or OP's.
a lot of OP´s can´t hold aggro too, no clue why...maybe a player thing
Another example, who tanks the mobs in there? Is it the GWF first in place or the "tank"?
I have a 17,5k GWF and i made me a loadout for a tank build including valhalla set, all what i can get on def and ofc IV with senti path. So i went in FBI and took a DC with, just to see how "good" i can tank the way to the hill.
Oh yes, your sooooo damn right. Thats such a good tank...
Why didnt you ask who tanks the bosses?
You can run IV or SW, go one or the other way, in the end your GWF is a pretty tanky class with a lot of dps.
Only some noobs will deny it.
Near every group inside Tong is made of OP, GF, DC, DC, GWF
The most tanky classes in game paired with most buffs (GF+OP+DC), having the best mitigation tools(GF+GWF+OP+DC) and most dps (GWF+some GF).
I showed you some good player tanking T2.5, i pointed at the tools you wanted to get knowledge about, you asked for, not me.
It took me some time to post some feats and power, only to get rid of these silly phrases like : "Huh, GWF = tanky, a lie" that´s what clueless player post.
You are simply lost or blind, lol
Stop writing BS and I stop arguing about it. You lack in arguments anyway all time.
Exactly at this moment
31xDC
17xOP
12xGF
10 xGWF
-----------
12x TR/CW/Hunter/SW
The question was about GWF and tanking, wich is considered to be a no-go, due to underperforming tank tree and missing block/taunt.
But I witnessed myself several Destroyer-GWF tanking content being dps and tank at once.
None of those feats I mentioned are needed to tank, except Destroyer capstone. Slam is usefull as seen in some situations and near no PVE player runs countless scars, more a PVP feat.
But again, if someone argues about GWF having no tanking tools, that´s what everyone runs or may run:
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Unstoppable
Avoid 30% incoming damage on a separat layer
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Slam
A damage debuff towards your enemy
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Daring_Shout
A DR buff, forgot how much up to 20% i guess
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Armor_Specialization
push your DR
And if you read through other feats, not mentioned, you find a tank to some degree.
If I said a warlock is no striker, that message would be more substatial, since apart from a broken setup there is no way for a warlock to be a competetive striker atm, 100% not, compared to a GWF that can tank, even tough in a way it was not ment to be like.
Depite that warlock has a tree with many tools to deal dps.
And your proof is a vid from a BIS group in Tong that a GWF is a tanke class? You know what mobs are doing in tong? Sry...i dont know why i event try to talk to you..its senseless. You got so much hate for one class...thats unbelievable.
82 players:
DC: 30
OP: 16
GWF: 12
GF: 10
CW: 6
HR: 4
SW: 2
TR: 2
I'm pretty proud of having guessed the exact order before even counting them. You can make your own conclusions, but clearly this is not even close to being balanced. There are only 26 dps classes to start with and almost half those slots are taken up by GWFs. As a TR i've completed runs with another TR, SW, HR or SW, so I guess the vast majority of other runs must have had GWFs exclusively.
I'm counting 18 instances currently, so if there are only 26 dps in total, this also means that the many of them are running with only a single dps...
Edit: I just checked again 45 minutes later and I've hit the 100 char limit so I can't see everybody, but there are ZERO TRs among those 100 persons running ToNG. Ugh...
Some will not stop denying it, normally those player that struggle with their class and can´t imagine that others do fine.
I'm not sure how long they can sustain this before it becomes a really deeper problem for the health of the community. I'm pretty certain that right now given these conditions very very few people are starting new CW/HR/SW/TR toons.
A lot of player without a "favoured class" are bored or lost interest allready. That´s what I know 100%.
A group made of tank-heal-3 dps is not existent to 100% in that dungeon, since I can count.
Despite some will answer: "But I run with a GF-mof-TR-Hunter-DC and did fine".
Those player who claim they do so, never showed up in all those month, when I pressed "O" , typed "tomb" and pressed return.
100% it´s allways the same result as above. Maybe those player run on a secret hidden server or a privat one.
The only way I can tank orcus is if I got 2 DCs, a lotta damage debuffs, and the lifesteal boon (alongside some Dark enchants in defensive slots, you need a lot of lifesteal to do anything).
I also agree with you regarding the Destroyer build, however the class is outperforming by a longshot despite having it all narrowed in terms of the specs.
Basically, what you're saying is that the class is forced upon the player as the only viable build since anything else pales in comparison due to the hardships of the content itself.
Out of that I lead a conclusion : Instead to fix the content, devs made the classes which offer far too much support and outperform other classes by a longshot. In the process of buffing up the tanky/haling classes they outdid it and made it all HAMSTER. Tweaking just one variable in one power spell can be very damaging to the game itself because the relations between powers between the classes are not really followed to a letter.
I remember back when the Sentinel was meta due to a bug with the Come and Get it spell. It was ferociously good since it gathered the mobs around the GWF. I'd throw one Oppressive Force and a GWF would follow that up with a Come and Get it spell.
It is amazing when spells are used for the sake of their mechanics and effects of the environmental degree rather than pure dps degree.
That's why I always dislike when I see a DC who uses a Sunburst and puts all mobs away from the Icy Terrain. A sheer portrayal of crazy behavior.
I have this problem at the current meta since it's all Tenderize'n'Cut, tactics not needed. CC not needed. It attracts the worst type of players around whose only concern is someone's IL. This reminds me of the craze going on for the GS level. This type of flawed mentality is also another big concern I have regarding this game, but I doubt it will ever change since the coming players only see it as a determining factor of someone' skill and yet it's far from the truth.