@miyanaa my power, crit and revcevery are similar to urs. i only have 170K hp so my empowr Bastion is 30% lees then urs. still have not seen anything similar to 30k hp. maybe full empower + crit + dread +deperate retoration + full chaplains... but even then is 30K hp comprable to GF or GWF blast? OP plug? TR Sod? CW? HR? SW? i am 15k DC full heals faithfull and 10k noob CW with rank 7 enchants melt me in 5 sec. i find it hard to belive BIS healer DC can survive other Bis class damage. but as Herr Starr said “like a 10... I need to see it to believe it"
Im not saying its always enough to save ur teammates from TR's SoD or GF when it 2 shots people, but when has it been enough? Previous mod people would die very fast too vs very good GFs or broken TRs.
All Im saying is that DCs heals were too OP, healing for 200-300k from Bastion and even more from GoF was too much.. made matches boring cause sometimes people seemed immortal. Now its not enough only cause 2 classes are broken as hell, but that doesnt mean that DC heals should be broken too, but thats my opinion.
And really? Sorry but if you are a 15k DC and you die vs 10k CW with r7 then it means you just cant do well in PvP as a DC...
You are correct healing from any of the healing classes has not been able to save people for along time . Its wasn't just GF and TR , you forgot HR before their piercing nerf and Pallies spamming divine judgement . Burst damage has been out of control for well over a year . The only reason more people didn't complain about healing from healing classes is because self healing from insignias , LS , and class features were so high . Astral shield was the whole reason matches were boring not the OP healing from DC .
Why people think a 200-300k heal is OP when a dps class can do the same amount of damage is beyond me . Its not like there is a long time between burst damage in this game . Wish healing worked like Sod or a GF burst , 6 second window of massive healing . Or a single target spammable that could actually heals as much as a dps at will . Maybe with these 2 things a healer could actually fulfill their role the same as a dps class does .
As I said before why bring a DC at all in teamplay ?
@miyanaa Do you really feel that you are usefull in pvp not saving anyone with your crappy healing, getting killed as soon you stop dodging to cast something and doing virtually no dammage... thanks
(1) Have difficulty staying alive; and (2) Cannot keep others in team alive either.
Whereas the other says that:
(1) Has little trouble staying alive; and (2) May have some difficulty keeping team-mates alive but mainly against broken classes like TR and GF (so I assume that against the other classes, this is not the case?).
It is perplexing because all 3 of you seem to have similar builds (I have opted for less investment into pure power - for a DPS build - but still maintain a decent combination of power, crit, T.Fey and Perfect Negation + Valhalla + 4 mythics). Is the only difference really that you are comparing solo Q experiences to 5v5 premade? @plavia I have seen you in solo Q so I imagine that your experiences are mainly from there; this would imply that the problem is not limited to 5v5. My personal experience has mainly been from the solo queue.
My opinion is that the healer DC should be both personally tanky AND be useful to his team mainly as a healer. The healer DC should also NOT rely so heavily on stats to be tanky but on class feats; why should my undergeared CW with Shield on Tab + Negation + great team buffs (renegade) + can dish out decent DPS be tankier than my healer who gives up all his DPS and has arguably inferior buffs as faithful? Does this make sense to anybody? Anything less than both a degree of personal tankiness AND decent team healing makes for a low-utility class in pvp with many better options in pvp as @pjohnny1 suggests.
EDIT: I have edited the title of this thread as relating to Healing DCs I may start another one for DPS DCs, if there are any around.
For my part im talking about fighting vs BIS ennemy.
Even more surprising then. 5v5 teams are supposed to be more balanced than solo Q where randomness can pit you against 2xTR or 2xGF or a combination of both on the enemy team.
I havent tried private queue with full BiS players in 5v5. All I did was queue in public, faced all kinds of players = low geared ones, PvErs and PvPers, and also bunch of BiS PvPers.
I wasnt in a situation where I had to handle 3v1 and try to stay alive and tank them, I did few 2v1s where I had a BiS PvE CW and his DPS DC buddy next to him, they didnt do much for some reason. Maybe they had wrong skills on, who knows?
Im 100% sure I would melt if I had to face BiS GF and TR/HR next to him, that kinda 2v1, people who know what they are doing and who know how to combo skills. But I'd probably melt in previous mod anyways xD
I inspected Plavia I think yesterday or 2 days ago, and maybe he/she was on a different character but from what Ive seen u had rank 9/10 on? I dont remember you having trans enchants on either. Those things make a huge diffrence in PvP, I also use a Lion..
I think thats why our experience so far is very different :P Ive seen all kinds of DCs in PvP, and stats make a huge,HUGE difference in how a DC is doing in a match. Seen DCs stack defense for some reason, instead of deflect and/or HP, and they wonder why they melt..seen them NOT use BtS, or they use Chains.. all that decides if you can stay alive vs a GF or any other "broken" class or not.
So imo every player will have different feelings and experience about certain things if all of us run different kind of builds/stats.
For my part im talking about fighting vs BIS ennemy.
Even more surprising then. 5v5 teams are supposed to be more balanced than solo Q where randomness can pit you against 2xTR or 2xGF or a combination of both on the enemy team.
Current meta is 2XTR and 2XGF in team play . Be at a disadvantage otherwise . Unless they are doing a rainbow comp match .
I think thats why our experience so far is very different :P Ive seen all kinds of DCs in PvP, and stats make a huge,HUGE difference in how a DC is doing in a match.
Yes, I agree. That's why I am trying to disentangle the differing factors between each of our experiences, stats and enemies. The lion also makes a huge difference in survivability for instance. I guess those DCs that stack defence come from a PvE background. Chains I also wonder about why anyone would use it with them not proc-ing all the time - I also thought the bug where you gained AP in divinity was fixed.
Unfortunately, what does not help is that there are so few of us around who pvp as DCs, it seems.
Current meta is 2XTR and 2XGF in team play . Be at a disadvantage otherwise . Unless they are doing a rainbow comp match .
The impression I have is that with private queues, people don't bother to use the public queue anymore. So, in-house matches (or coordinated between-guild matches) can see the players shape the teams the way they want. I doubt they would favour 8/10 players being TRs or GFs as that would exclude so many players. If they queue public and they are worried about their "reputations", that's another story. I may be wrong though as the amateur matches that I try to organise in my alliance are just for fun and very far from the kind you would find in pvp guilds.
Yeah I am sure in house would be more of anything goes since it is for fun . The people that worry about rep or leaderboards tend to play what is considered most viable .TR and GF happen to be the best 2 options again. Matches between different guilds/alliances will usually consist of what is considered most viable each mod .
I am probably missing something basic here. i play PVP for 4 years and now DC looks exactly like pre mod5 = training dummy that can only buff his party. TR is "broken" from day one, to be honest now its fair play compare to before with piercing and SE GF is "broken" or "overpower" for more than a year (might be 2 years) if you think OP is easy then you havn't met a good one, there are probably stronger then the two above. and now HR, SW, GWF, CW are all srong. it is not "broken" or "overpower" this is PVP.
sure if i go behind my party heal and buff i a usefull. i can probably heal, buff making even low level party looks good. but thats it. every class at any gear score kill me in 1:1 now. i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way. this is the current play of PVP, everyone get hit. when i face a player i can't kill him and i can't heal myself... now cleric is totaly depend on his party to save him.
now class and build is more important then before, and everyone asked for it.
I am probably missing something basic here. i play PVP for 4 years and now DC looks exactly like pre mod5 = training dummy that can only buff his party.
Its worst than that: Imagine yourself playing DC during those mod but with AS like it his now.
Papa Smurf / Uncle Ben --DC
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way.
I agree with this. So I transferred armour, weapon and offence enchants to my CW to play some more and see how much more damage than my DC he could do. I was able to reduce the HP of a BiS GWF to 50-60% on my CW (I always got killed eventually and he healed up); my build can buff my team, do decent DPS and is quite tanky; I can even heal my team a bit!!! Still one rotated by GFs though. My DC would not be able to last that long and would not be able to reduce the GWF's HP to 50% in DPS mode.
Most DCs writing in the Temple are interested in PvE only it seems. This class needs a buff in pvp and if we are not vocal about it on the forums, we will be forgotten.
i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way.
I agree with this. So I transferred armour, weapon and offence enchants to my CW to play some more and see how much more damage than my DC he could do. I was able to reduce the HP of a BiS GWF to 50-60% on my CW (I always got killed eventually and he healed up); my build can buff my team, do decent DPS and is quite tanky; I can even heal my team a bit!!! Still one rotated by GFs though. My DC would not be able to last that long and would not be able to reduce the GWF's HP to 50% in DPS mode.
Most DCs writing in the Temple are interested in PvE only it seems. This class needs a buff in pvp and if we are not vocal about it on the forums, we will be forgotten.
I find it higherly unlikely that DC will be getting any buffs . Devs already stated they are not happy with the 2 DC party in PVE . When they aren't happy with how a class is nerfs usually follow . I could be wrong but anytime in the past when they didn't like something a nerf soon followed. I just hope they don't screw the whole class up .
my husbands healadin heals 20k+ with his at will, while only stacking defensive stats. he also is tanky af. all that with a lower il than my dc. he has bond of virtue which is completely passive and has a way bigger area than AS. Empowered AS should give more benefits than some incoming healing since it is way harder to keep it up. people have been complaining that heal is overpowered, while i‘m just thinking that of course as group with a healer should perform better than a group consisting of only five pure dps. diversity got punished hard by nerfing cc and heal.
my husbands healadin heals 20k+ with his at will, while only stacking defensive stats. he also is tanky af. all that with a lower il than my dc. he has bond of virtue which is completely passive and has a way bigger area than AS. Empowered AS should give more benefits than some incoming healing since it is way harder to keep it up. people have been complaining that heal is overpowered, while i‘m just thinking that of course as group with a healer should perform better than a group consisting of only five pure dps. diversity got punished hard by nerfing cc and heal.
Thanks for comparing DC to healer OP and mentioning item levels. I think this is a good way to understand under-performance of the class. It is pretty clear that healadins are the superior healer here. I also agree with Astral Shield - I completely hate the changes they have made to it; if I use it is mainly for the regular non-empowered version now, which is sad - why waste an empowered bastion for an empowered AS if I desperately need healing? I do hope they reconsider the changes - they did label them "experimental" after all.
i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way.
I agree with this. So I transferred armour, weapon and offence enchants to my CW to play some more and see how much more damage than my DC he could do. I was able to reduce the HP of a BiS GWF to 50-60% on my CW (I always got killed eventually and he healed up); my build can buff my team, do decent DPS and is quite tanky; I can even heal my team a bit!!! Still one rotated by GFs though. My DC would not be able to last that long and would not be able to reduce the GWF's HP to 50% in DPS mode.
Most DCs writing in the Temple are interested in PvE only it seems. This class needs a buff in pvp and if we are not vocal about it on the forums, we will be forgotten.
I find it higherly unlikely that DC will be getting any buffs . Devs already stated they are not happy with the 2 DC party in PVE . When they aren't happy with how a class is nerfs usually follow . I could be wrong but anytime in the past when they didn't like something a nerf soon followed. I just hope they don't screw the whole class up .
They are mainly unhappy with the buffs of the DC towards the whole group, more than the healing itself. Also, they could increase the DC's personal survivability for all three trees and personal DPS for righteous, without giving additional benefits to the team. This would not impact the PvE experience much, but still make DCs more viable in PvP. Healing can also be increased for PvP with minimal impact on PvE since healing builds are not used very much currently afaik.
i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way.
I agree with this. So I transferred armour, weapon and offence enchants to my CW to play some more and see how much more damage than my DC he could do. I was able to reduce the HP of a BiS GWF to 50-60% on my CW (I always got killed eventually and he healed up); my build can buff my team, do decent DPS and is quite tanky; I can even heal my team a bit!!! Still one rotated by GFs though. My DC would not be able to last that long and would not be able to reduce the GWF's HP to 50% in DPS mode.
Most DCs writing in the Temple are interested in PvE only it seems. This class needs a buff in pvp and if we are not vocal about it on the forums, we will be forgotten.
I find it higherly unlikely that DC will be getting any buffs . Devs already stated they are not happy with the 2 DC party in PVE . When they aren't happy with how a class is nerfs usually follow . I could be wrong but anytime in the past when they didn't like something a nerf soon followed. I just hope they don't screw the whole class up .
They are mainly unhappy with the buffs of the DC towards the whole group, more than the healing itself. Also, they could increase the DC's personal survivability for all three trees and personal DPS for righteous, without giving additional benefits to the team. This would not impact the PvE experience much, but still make DCs more viable in PvP. Healing can also be increased for PvP with minimal impact on PvE since healing builds are not used very much currently afaik.
Astral shield nerf was for both pve and pvp , to be honest think it was more about pve and they really didn't care about the effect its had in pvp . No dps buff will happen for righteous that won't have a affect on pve , they are a support/healing class and their damage isn't awful considering the buffs they bring . DC damage sucks in pvp due to being a dot class with practically zero burst damage . Same as SW lots of dots terrible burst . I think even a buff to healing for dc wouldn't help much . The mechanics of how a DC heals make zero sense for a action based combat system . Healing encounters that are all ground targeted and have cast times or delays trying to heal people dodging damage . Whoever thought that up was a genius . Anyway I like my DC but will be doing pvp on a different class . Don't feel like being a high deflect mediocre healing dummie that hits like a wet noodle even when specced for dps.
No dps buff will happen for righteous that won't have a affect on pve
So how will changing feats such that the DC gets an additional buff relative to the team, or increasing the uptime of the DPS-component of avatar have an impact of groups in pve other than some marginal increase in the DPS of the DC? It won't; because you are just giving the DC some more DPS. It will however go some way in PvP. Even more than that however, as I mentioned the personal survivability of the Righteous DC should be higher in PvP. This could come from a number of sources; again the capstone could add some DR; or it could be through some other feat. Also, if you think that DCs should not have any additional benefits in PvE just remember that other classes have "modifiers" for PvP already. Thaumaturge CW's capstone Assailing Force is half as effective for instance and there are other examples too. Lots can be done if there is a will to make the class more competitive in PvP with little impact on PvE; I am not sure a will exists though.
There is no will to do what your asking , if anything I can see dev's shuffling some things into healing trees . I just don't see them adjusting righteous dps , I don't think they see DC dps as a problem in pvp like the players playing the class do . I have very little faith in cryptic or more importantly PW when it comes to their games . They are concerned with the bottom line not the quality of their games or classes in their games . Their track record speaks for itself , anything that generates more revenue gets increased, e.g higher enchant ranks new lockbox . The stuff players want and ask for are largely ignored . Class bugs and outdated abilities ignored to the point they become the norm . New classes being promised for years and not being introduced . Class balancing always being put off in favor of other projects . When was the last level increase or even a hint of one ? Should be named NEVERHAPPEN instead of neverwinter . Probably get a ban for this but that is only because community moderators are volunteers and don't work for cryptic .
@pjohnny1 Miracles do happen once in a while Like a certain extensive HR rework where players got very engaged a few mods ago. Ironic how the fruit lasted so little though.
@pjohnny1 Miracles do happen once in a while Like a certain extensive HR rework where players got very engaged a few mods ago. Ironic how the fruit lasted so little though.
Lol even after the rework HR was full of bugs that are only now getting fixed . Yeah HR is at the bottom hanging with dc and sw now . Just seems like when they tone things down about any class they always go to far .
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
HR is not at bottom, it the second highest damage dealer in the game
HR is not at bottom, it the second highest damage dealer in the game
In pve yeah but not pvp , if that was the case you would see more of them . Like right after the HR rework when piercing ignored deflect, dr and tenacity kind of like SoD now . Lol didn't see a match without a HR then . Don't see as many HR in matches anymore . Just look at the leaderboards not a whole lot of HR on it anymore.
HR is not at bottom, it the second highest damage dealer in the game
In pve yeah but not pvp , if that was the case you would see more of them . Like right after the HR rework when piercing ignored deflect, dr and tenacity kind of like SoD now . Lol didn't see a match without a HR then . Don't see as many HR in matches anymore . Just look at the leaderboards not a whole lot of HR on it anymore.
I think I was 10-15k short on HP so this killed me on the spot (one shot). There was a DC closeby so it may have been buffed, although it may have been an ACDC and anointed army was not active. This was an archery build with dread I think. So in terms of potential DPS they can be good in pvp too. In terms of class performance in pvp overall I definitely think many other classes can outperform them, since they are squishy and if you manage to control them, then they are killed easily.
Nezdin (DC) Aelan Icebleed (CW)
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
HR is not at bottom, it the second highest damage dealer in the game
In pve yeah but not pvp , if that was the case you would see more of them . Like right after the HR rework when piercing ignored deflect, dr and tenacity kind of like SoD now . Lol didn't see a match without a HR then . Don't see as many HR in matches anymore . Just look at the leaderboards not a whole lot of HR on it anymore.
I think I was 10-15k short on HP so this killed me on the spot (one shot). There was a DC closeby so it may have been buffed, although it may have been an ACDC and anointed army was not active. This was an archery build with dread I think. So in terms of potential DPS they can be good in pvp too. In terms of class performance in pvp overall I definitely think many other classes can outperform them, since they are squishy and if you manage to control them, then they are killed easily.
The only class that will have any kind of problem with a Archery HR is DC because of no control . All of archery hard hitting abilities have casting times . Archery has to stand in one place too long to be effective against anyone besides DC , everyone else will eat them for lunch . Besides they are easily countered by just staying close to them . The farther they are from you the more damage they do .
My comment was generic comparing archery to "many other classes", not specifically DC, as you can read!
If you want to compare righteous DC and archery HR I'll tell you this: I have beat the same HR in 1v1 - Break the Spirit is inferior in cc to almost any other control that other classes have but that is all we really have and must use it to our advantage - plus it is capable of damage while cc-ing (not all cc powers have that). Overall, not sure whether I'd place HR over or below righteous DC, but they are both quite poor now.
Nezdin (DC) Aelan Icebleed (CW)
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putzboy78Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,950Arc User
Saying an HR will kill a DC 1v1 is vague. Combat, archery, trapper? Do you mean all three perhaps?
As I say above the comparison is between my 12k righteous DC and a better equipped (double trans. enchants) archery HR with level 20 SH boons, including HP. Not saying that he can't kill me, but I have killed him.
Comments
Why people think a 200-300k heal is OP when a dps class can do the same amount of damage is beyond me . Its not like there is a long time between burst damage in this game . Wish healing worked like Sod or a GF burst , 6 second window of massive healing . Or a single target spammable that could actually heals as much as a dps at will . Maybe with these 2 things a healer could actually fulfill their role the same as a dps class does .
As I said before why bring a DC at all in teamplay ?
(1) Have difficulty staying alive; and
(2) Cannot keep others in team alive either.
Whereas the other says that:
(1) Has little trouble staying alive; and
(2) May have some difficulty keeping team-mates alive but mainly against broken classes like TR and GF (so I assume that against the other classes, this is not the case?).
It is perplexing because all 3 of you seem to have similar builds (I have opted for less investment into pure power - for a DPS build - but still maintain a decent combination of power, crit, T.Fey and Perfect Negation + Valhalla + 4 mythics). Is the only difference really that you are comparing solo Q experiences to 5v5 premade? @plavia I have seen you in solo Q so I imagine that your experiences are mainly from there; this would imply that the problem is not limited to 5v5. My personal experience has mainly been from the solo queue.
My opinion is that the healer DC should be both personally tanky AND be useful to his team mainly as a healer. The healer DC should also NOT rely so heavily on stats to be tanky but on class feats; why should my undergeared CW with Shield on Tab + Negation + great team buffs (renegade) + can dish out decent DPS be tankier than my healer who gives up all his DPS and has arguably inferior buffs as faithful? Does this make sense to anybody? Anything less than both a degree of personal tankiness AND decent team healing makes for a low-utility class in pvp with many better options in pvp as @pjohnny1 suggests.
EDIT: I have edited the title of this thread as relating to Healing DCs I may start another one for DPS DCs, if there are any around.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
All I did was queue in public, faced all kinds of players = low geared ones, PvErs and PvPers, and also bunch of BiS PvPers.
I wasnt in a situation where I had to handle 3v1 and try to stay alive and tank them, I did few 2v1s where I had a BiS PvE CW and his DPS DC buddy next to him, they didnt do much for some reason. Maybe they had wrong skills on, who knows?
Im 100% sure I would melt if I had to face BiS GF and TR/HR next to him, that kinda 2v1, people who know what they are doing and who know how to combo skills. But I'd probably melt in previous mod anyways xD
I inspected Plavia I think yesterday or 2 days ago, and maybe he/she was on a different character but from what Ive seen u had rank 9/10 on? I dont remember you having trans enchants on either.
Those things make a huge diffrence in PvP, I also use a Lion..
I think thats why our experience so far is very different :P Ive seen all kinds of DCs in PvP, and stats make a huge,HUGE difference in how a DC is doing in a match.
Seen DCs stack defense for some reason, instead of deflect and/or HP, and they wonder why they melt..seen them NOT use BtS, or they use Chains.. all that decides if you can stay alive vs a GF or any other "broken" class or not.
So imo every player will have different feelings and experience about certain things if all of us run different kind of builds/stats.
YouTube
Current meta is 2XTR and 2XGF in team play . Be at a disadvantage otherwise . Unless they are doing a rainbow comp match .
Unfortunately, what does not help is that there are so few of us around who pvp as DCs, it seems.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Yeah I am sure in house would be more of anything goes since it is for fun . The people that worry about rep or leaderboards tend to play what is considered most viable .TR and GF happen to be the best 2 options again. Matches between different guilds/alliances will usually consist of what is considered most viable each mod .
i play PVP for 4 years and now DC looks exactly like pre mod5 = training dummy that can only buff his party.
TR is "broken" from day one, to be honest now its fair play compare to before with piercing and SE
GF is "broken" or "overpower" for more than a year (might be 2 years)
if you think OP is easy then you havn't met a good one, there are probably stronger then the two above.
and now HR, SW, GWF, CW are all srong.
it is not "broken" or "overpower" this is PVP.
sure if i go behind my party heal and buff i a usefull. i can probably heal, buff making even low level party looks good.
but thats it. every class at any gear score kill me in 1:1 now.
i checked other strong players like robb or saber, when they fight low level player they kill him in 10 sec but they will lose 20% HP on the way. this is the current play of PVP, everyone get hit.
when i face a player i can't kill him and i can't heal myself... now cleric is totaly depend on his party to save him.
now class and build is more important then before, and everyone asked for it.
Imagine yourself playing DC during those mod but with AS like it his now.
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Most DCs writing in the Temple are interested in PvE only it seems. This class needs a buff in pvp and if we are not vocal about it on the forums, we will be forgotten.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
people have been complaining that heal is overpowered, while i‘m just thinking that of course as group with a healer should perform better than a group consisting of only five pure dps. diversity got punished hard by nerfing cc and heal.
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
There is no will to do what your asking , if anything I can see dev's shuffling some things into healing trees . I just don't see them adjusting righteous dps , I don't think they see DC dps as a problem in pvp like the players playing the class do . I have very little faith in cryptic or more importantly PW when it comes to their games . They are concerned with the bottom line not the quality of their games or classes in their games . Their track record speaks for itself , anything that generates more revenue gets increased, e.g higher enchant ranks new lockbox . The stuff players want and ask for are largely ignored . Class bugs and outdated abilities ignored to the point they become the norm . New classes being promised for years and not being introduced . Class balancing always being put off in favor of other projects . When was the last level increase or even a hint of one ? Should be named NEVERHAPPEN instead of neverwinter . Probably get a ban for this but that is only because community moderators are volunteers and don't work for cryptic .
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
https://imgur.com/a/z2IaQ
I think I was 10-15k short on HP so this killed me on the spot (one shot). There was a DC closeby so it may have been buffed, although it may have been an ACDC and anointed army was not active. This was an archery build with dread I think. So in terms of potential DPS they can be good in pvp too. In terms of class performance in pvp overall I definitely think many other classes can outperform them, since they are squishy and if you manage to control them, then they are killed easily.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
My comment was generic comparing archery to "many other classes", not specifically DC, as you can read!
If you want to compare righteous DC and archery HR I'll tell you this: I have beat the same HR in 1v1 - Break the Spirit is inferior in cc to almost any other control that other classes have but that is all we really have and must use it to our advantage - plus it is capable of damage while cc-ing (not all cc powers have that). Overall, not sure whether I'd place HR over or below righteous DC, but they are both quite poor now.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)
Saying an HR will kill a DC 1v1 is vague. Combat, archery, trapper? Do you mean all three perhaps?
As I say above the comparison is between my 12k righteous DC and a better equipped (double trans. enchants) archery HR with level 20 SH boons, including HP. Not saying that he can't kill me, but I have killed him.
Aelan Icebleed (CW)