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Guild friends arguing about GF dmg.

dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
Well, before i see with my own eyes, i thought that was a lie, but it is not!

Gf should hit kill FBI turtle?
Gf should hit kill, bosses?

I mean, support classes should kill bosses with 2 or 3 enconters??
acctualy even dps classes can't kill bosses in 3 hits.

i know gf is pretty strong on pvp, but regular player have 140k hp (i know your OP have more)

but bosses have... what? 100 million?

3 griffon and dragon turtle is dead meat!

on my guild some say: GF dmg is correct, we haven't saw it before because noone had dps GF build.
Others say: GF is broken and something is overstacking, or calculating wrong.

what your opinion about it?


  • dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    thank you.
    so basically they have no reason to be proud when those "gf dps" overcome the damage of a regular dps? omg!

    human ego is incredible!
    Some of them is challenging other players to show how strong and skilled their GF is.
    i'll wait for this fix and the party will over.
  • markeen#2032 markeen Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    It maybe some bugs stacking like it was said above but also could be due to rank 12 enchants, bondings, proper companion and mount bonuses, buffs and debuffs, boons (especially guild boons).

    But I agree, some players get huge ego's when they use exploits. Then they brag about how good they are. I remember a couple players that used to hang out in Icewind Pass pvp provoking players to challenge them. To the point of causing drama in game and making the area unenjoyable.
    Founder of Knights of Ra guild in Neverwinter PS4. Founder of The Arashikage Clan in Defiance, formally of PlayStation Home.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    Any class can be a dps who kills bosses in a few shots. Blame bondings.
  • eclipse#6873 eclipse Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Yeah wat are overpower are buffs, some classes scale better than others gwf and gf are a prime example, they both have self buffs themselves and high burst damage. Gwf have their self buffs like hidden daggers and destroyer stacks while having higher attack speed, gf have their reckless attacker stacks, fray and knights challenge to make up for their slower attack speed, the investment to make a support class into a dps is sizeable due to the gf having no statistics like dex that grant crit strike resulting in a higher need to stack azures/brutals, the lack of internal crit severity sources, and needing to get their main hand to legendary so the payout has to good imo
  • masticore#3287 masticore Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Although the turtle has never wiped a group I've ever been in, Id like to see this 3 hit and dead....
  • boromir#3940 boromir Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    A GF that is spec for dps doesn't kill turtles with 3 griffins without a certain team makeup. It requires 2 DC's an OP, doing the actual tanking duties, and another random dps. Or even another support class to make the dps spec GF look even more powerful than what they actually are.

    The exploits are not really exploits. The conqueror path has a capstone. With the survivors wraps you can keep yourself buffed with that cap by using dailies. Staying power in the protector tree, crushing pin in tactician, wrathful warrior and staggering challenge all work as they are supposed to. Debuffs from the clerics and companions do their job and power sharing can get crazy. I don't run a dps spec, but I did a FBI last night. Without companion's proc, I stood there with 52K power. You can also use the HP guild boon to boost the pally's aura of courage buff. Tac on a vorpal and a crit severity companion, double offense slotted rings and companion equipment and you've got a formula for some serious damage. That's not everything, but it'll give those who don't understand the how, an idea.

    These guys who build their GF's this way are the exception and not the rule, and most do it wrong. Well, maybe not as much these days, it doesn't take a rocket scientist. So I don't see a nerf forthcoming. It's not the GF, it's the group composition.
  • rockstargfurockstargfu Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    I play a dps gf and in my perspective, i stay pretty relative to most other classes dps. Now as far as Griffons Wrath appearing OP , i get that. I have ran with 2 BiS DCs and Pally. The results were outragous. That being said, the other dps in group was also hitting rediculous numbers. It comes down to team play and iming in my opinion
  • masticore#3287 masticore Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Now, in my dps loadout, in a buff group I have hit over 65k power not even having a dps comp with bondings, and i don't think griffin wrath could drop a boss with bonding procs. I dont even think its possible, even with knights challenge on, to drop the dragon turtle in 3 hits. Any videos?
  • trentbail21trentbail21 Member Posts: 433 Arc User

    Looks balanced.. 4 support characters and one CW should definitely do this dungeon in 11 minutes. This is an xbox video btw you pc guys should do this WAY FASTER with the same team comp right?
    Find me in game if you want and send me a domination/ gaunt invite. If you are good and im not busy ill play with you. Im not an elitist ill play with almost anyone.
  • masticore#3287 masticore Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Lmao Jesus christ! That was ridiculous. I take back any doubt I had.

    I could see why they would make changes to prevent this. But in the end, I dont see the problem with BiS players, in a BiS buff group, why they shouldn't be allowed to have results similar to this. Maybe not to this magnitude, but similar.

    People dump lots of time, effort, and sometimes money to have the best the game can offer, in terms of character development. Honestly I dont see anything wrong, from what I can tell, hell they didn't bug or geas druffi like 80% of groups would. Bravo lol
  • dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    Well, now I'll tell you my sad story. (Xbox land)

    This video was viral among my alliance mates, everyone spent tons of AD and RP on their GF just because they thought it was easy to do.

    Well, most of them did not read the michelas debuff list, did not read janne's website, in fact most of them do not know that there is a forum.

    Nothing against anyone using GF DPS builds,i know there's a lot of good ones.

    But the result of my "friends" Gf's was that they do not hit hard, they don't tank and don't buff, just a strange thing that like a GWF running sentinel build.

    After going through major problems with them, like taking more than 1 hour to finish an msp, because without the defense and aggro of gf, everyone die several times, I decided to complain.

    I said: you guys may be having fun doing half dmg of a bis dps does, but taking hours to do a dg with 16k IL group is a shame, I know there are several excellent gf dps but my friends are not one of them.

    Well, as the guild leader is a GF, who is also frustrated by spending millions and not getting the result expected, he invited me out of the guild for complain about his gf. (It seems like someone's ego is too big)

    YES, he invited me to leave for say that his GF was not giving support to the group,i mean, isn't that exactly what the class was meant to do?
    Wait there's more, I was one of the founders of the guild, I left the leadership for him
    Who the hell does that?
    who say for a guild founder that is a step of 17k to leave for criticizes his toon?

    Things went really bad with my guild mates, when I made an MSP with a super sayan 17k GF called Andriws las vegas in 19 minutes, and that was so fast and funny that i couldn't keep it for me, i had to tell to my friend how strong that guy is!

    At that moment I saw how my friends were weak and small mind.

    So the leader of my guild said: since Andriws is that good, why do not you ask to enter his guild? Go play with him (tone of envy)

    Well, my story ends happily, because I was accepted into the Andriws guild :smile:

    Post edited by dyukiller on
  • tom#6998 tom Member Posts: 952 Arc User
    The new dungeon is all nerfs dps gf needed
  • setimoselosetimoselo Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited August 2017

    Taking away the rightful ability to do damage from a player who has invested to do such is the fastest way to push a player from a game. In this game, the faster you kill creatures, the better your investment. I won't get Astral Diamonds faster for taking damage. This game is centered on DPS which isn't capped, it is not centered on defense which is capped. Some people claim to not need tanks for certain dungeons all together. Stop asking to nerf classes simply because it may effect your online ego. This is a DPS game; live with it or move on, every class needs love for their investment, not just GWFs.
    Post edited by setimoselo on
  • dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    look we have too many situations on game.

    --Support classes is really hard to level up, dps build make it easy, in this case i agree.

    --On public queue--
    The game search for 2 support e 3 dps, that's a prove that developers consider group formation fundamental for party sucess, by this point of view, dc/op devotion (heals) gf/ op protection (defenders) and 3 dmg dealers is the goal formation. i'm ignoring buff/debuff, just simplefying, when game calls a gf dps/op dps/ dc dps, things goes bad fast,this gets even worse if party is mid or low gear, in this case i believe every party member have to do a expecific part that others can't.

    --End game and private queue--
    Everything is possible and you can simply deny or leave queue is you don't agree with party composition, i usually be the only dps on my queues, 2 dc (d.o and a.c) gf tactician and a power share Op.

    i think the problem is when you begin to mess around Fuc%¨$$ people, and making 15 minutes Dg last for hours whem you could simply switch your build on any camp fire, this means you're a HAMMISTER hammister that don't respect your teamates and think to be the paingiver is more important than help each other.

    this game could be much more easier if ppl forget about paingiver tab, how much control, stuns, buffs and debuffs, party speed and resistence is underated/ non use, because doesn't deals huge numbers.

    but who am i to say? :smile:
    Post edited by dyukiller on
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,360 Arc User
    GF vs cw is derby. cw can win gf can win they can be equal on single.
    Remember cw has disadvantage lower weapon damage.

    A good gwf hit a lot faster and harder than a gf.
  • manipulosmanipulos Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    If you think about it, the only reason for the dps Guardian Fighter character in the party in that FBI video posted above is for Into the Fray. If not for that one power wouldn't they be better off with a "normal" dps character? So in essence the GF character is still chosen for his support.
  • dairyzeusdairyzeus Member Posts: 304 Arc User
    manipulos said:

    If you think about it, the only reason for the dps Guardian Fighter character in the party in that FBI video posted above is for Into the Fray. If not for that one power wouldn't they be better off with a "normal" dps character? So in essence the GF character is still chosen for his support.

    It's the combination of team buffs (ITF, Hard mark, crushing pin) and crazy single target burst that make the DPS GF ideal for those speed runs.
  • masticore#3287 masticore Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    Gf has a few debuffs they apply on mobs, itf, griffin wrath is nasty when empowered. There's a reason gf are part of speed runs. If GF were only useful for their itf, groups would've stopped using them when itf was nerfed.
  • manipulosmanipulos Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    I think hard mark and crushing pin together don't add up to as much bonus damage for the party as ITF alone right? Either way, both hard mark and crushing pin could be considered "support" as well so that even furthers my own view of the situation, that the GF is there for his/her buffs maybe just as much as for his/her damage on these speed runs.

    So are these numbers right? Hard Mark somewhere around 8% damage buff for allies, Crushing pin 10%, ITF 30% for Conqueror spec? With DC and OP reducing cooldowns you can have ITF up all the time. I don't know man, I'm still thinking without ITF you would use a different HDPS character on a speed run...but I'm no expert! Maybe the Knights Challenge + Griffons Wrath + Staggering Challenge would really still be that much faster on the overall time of the dungeon than any alternatives if you took ITF out of the equation.

    I could be totally wrong about the damage buffs, and I honestly don't remember which ones are considered "buff" or "debuff" which would make a difference in calculations. I've never run ACT or crunched numbers I just try to soak in all the awesome info that others in our community spend many hours researching then sharing with us. :)
  • dyukillerdyukiller Member Posts: 89 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    well guys, last time i said this on Arc forum it was deleted and i recieved a "warning" to don't post this "NOT usual mechanics."

    Well let's talk about this with caution this time.

    On the video above, they reach the 200% debuff (this video is on xbox mod 11.B) plus con artists and sellswords, frost , thing that overcap, should i say, not capped debuff, this way any class can hit really hard.

    So if any class could hit hard, why choose a GF dps?
    Well gf is using a "not usual mechanic".
    if you're smart, you alread got it.

    Feat reckless attacker need to be struck to gain stacks,well how to get this stacks fast?
    ....... not usual mechanics? maaaaayybeee :D

    but with mod 12 debuffs changes is comming for xbox/ps4, and a fix here or there this will end soon.

  • rjc9000rjc9000 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,352 Arc User
    You would also need to fix it for Tankadin passive and Instigator stacks.

  • manipulosmanipulos Member Posts: 235 Arc User
    edited August 2017
    dyukiller said:

    Feat reckless attacker need to be struck to gain stacks,well how to get this stacks fast?
    ....... not usual mechanics? maaaaayybeee :D

    I've heard about that, but with my luck I would have to run that particular dungeon about 500 times to get that specific item. It doesn't matter since I don't have the gear/artifacts/enchants/companions/etc. to do that kind of damage yet anyway LOL
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