Salvage NERF (Not a bug) *Updated*

isaintify1

Read the updated part.


Now let me start off by saying I do not want any kind of "hate flow" in this thread so people please refrain from the feeling of hate and anger. Bring your tinfoil hats, and start thinking.

So with the release of Module 12 came a change in the Astral Diamonds department. Not many people seem to be vocalizing their voices on this subject matter but earning AD has been nerfed. As a older player from back in Module 2 days there has always been a way to earn AD off of dungeons, from items, and gear that drops. Whether its salvaging, or things from the chest they have always existed. But the recent change of all the gear in the Seal store everything is Bound to character. Now I am not sure if this is a overlook on their part(A silly overlook, that is very poor work from the developers if it is a overlook) or if this was meant to be. But people no longer have a way to make AD off of dungeons. Even if it was changed to be bound to account the difference in AD is very high. Now this is where I am thinking why are you cryptic doing this... Lets see well we can now BUY a level 70 toon with zen, and we can also buy power points, companion upgrade packs, oh and the fact we now have a bundle that completes nearly every single campaign... So I want to purchase all this but well now I cannot make as much AD and have to create a new toon so I can MAKE more AD. Okay well let me pull out my wallet and slap 200 dollars down infront of cryptics face and buy a basically "maxed" toon instantly without doing anything.

This is very shady business practice and very much leaning towards a pay to win game... Now do not get me wrong ive never cared about pay to win, and I always encouraged people to spend real money (myself included) to support the game and company. BUT when the pay to win starts to suck the fun out of the game, and at the same time have someone who just started the game be the same ilvl as me, and finished all of his boons even before i did. Then having to carry him through a dungeon because he thinks a daily can only be used once a day. So basically cryptic your thought process is..."remove AD earnings, remove alt friendly environments,put out more zen deals on completing tasks and getting toons to level 70 right away. Make more money. Yeah this practice does work and it will make you more money, but it will also start to kill off your player base. I am by far not the only one who is concerned with the way the game is going.
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UPDATED:

Patch Notes: Version: NW.85.20170808a.3

Ostorian rings are now Bind to Account on Pickup, changed from Bind to Character on Pickup. This change only affects newly purchased or obtained Ostorian rings.

Hell yeah! Thank you for listening Cryptic! Much appreciated.

Unknown

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hirogarde

I'm trying to look at this from their perspective. Although your concerns may be valid, I believe the BtC items are a temporary thing.

Imagine if everything started out as unbound, or even BtA. A player would only need to run the new content on one of their characters, then could transfer ALL of the new equipment to a "just made L70" alt... making the new content useless for them to run, and all the old content too easy to run. With purely BtC items, only those that run the content can have the new, more powerful gear.

Why everything? It's most likely a programming thing. It's probably easier to code a vendor to sell only BtC items than to code each item individually as BtC or BtA. Later, when they're ready to change everything back to BtA, all they have to do is switch a line of code or two for the vendors rather than recoding all the gear.

I could be wrong, but this makes the most sense to me.

pitshade

Seal items being BtC has been confirmed to be a bug and will hopefully be fixed next week. Otherwise, there is a slight reduction in number of seals due to the lack of a separate t1 daily bag. However, all seals go into the same pool and can be used to buy the more valuable rings. It is a net gain and once the BtC status gets fixed, completely better than before.

You are getting more value for running dungeons. There is no P2W anything here and if you had bothered to look on the official bugs thread or in the preview thread, you would habe seen plenty about it.

wintermurloc

asterdahl said:

arcanjo86 said:

seal trader, buy gear for other class is bound to char on pick up, when it should be bta on pickup, these need to be fixed soon, the ingredients are ok, some voninblood on seal trader for sale would be nice. @nitocris83 @terramak @asterdahl, loving mod so far specialy the guild kop farm team, good job everyone.

Thank you, glad to hear you are enjoying the module! I want to apologize personally for the fact that these items launched Bind to Character, particularly after I mentioned that we were looking into this. The changes are made locally but did not make it into the release build.

This week's build is only for emergency hotfixes, but the bind issue should be resolved soon after, so please keep an eye on the patch notes. Until such time that the issue is resolved, we ask that you refrain from buying equipment you intend to use on other characters.

That pretty much confirms it was meant to be BTA, now if this change will happen at the earliest.. no one can really say , as for the companion upgrade packs from the zen store, i would personally recommend not purchasing it since as with most of the pricing issues at the zen store.. This item fails miserably

namelesshero347

I have no idea why people complain so much about the BtC items from the store. The devs already admitted it was a bug and will fix. Anyhow, the seal store items being BtC makes no difference to me. I do most my dungeon runs with my GF and DC. So they salvage the BtC rings from the store, and pass the BtA drops to my DPS toons. And I continue to make AD hand over fist.

isaintify1

pitshade said:

Seal items being BtC has been confirmed to be a bug and will hopefully be fixed next week. Otherwise, there is a slight reduction in number of seals due to the lack of a separate t1 daily bag. However, all seals go into the same pool and can be used to buy the more valuable rings. It is a net gain and once the BtC status gets fixed, completely better than before.



You are getting more value for running dungeons. There is no P2W anything here and if you had bothered to look on the official bugs thread or in the preview thread, you would habe seen plenty about it.

Are you sure about that now? They did the patch and only thing they made bound to account was useless relic armor.

pitshade

I am sure that they promised that seal items woukd be BtA which was what I was basing the above on. Yes this did not come to pass and the devs have repeatedly failed to respond to requests for clarification on their intent. This still doesn't mean salvage was nerfed, mor does it justify your absurd P2W claims or failure to note exactly how much the issue had been talked about.

isaintify1

pitshade said:

I am sure that they promised that seal items woukd be BtA which was what I was basing the above on. Yes this did not come to pass and the devs have repeatedly failed to respond to requests for clarification on their intent. This still doesn't mean salvage was nerfed, mor does it justify your absurd P2W claims or failure to note exactly how much the issue had been talked about.

Making AD on multiple toons has been nerfed. You can no longer salvage gear on toons unless you play them. This IS a "Salvage" nerf. I call it that because I cannot think of a better name to describe it. This has been talked about a lot on multiple forum topics that have been either removed or are not in the recent listings. IT IS leaning towards P2W because they just realeased all the campaigns in the zen market right with the salvage nerf. YOU can buy a max level toon basically with pure cash. You know that green stuff called money. You can buy a level 70 toon, buy all the campaign tokens that people spend years to finish. Buy all your gear and armor with ZEN(money). THEN you can buy all your power points with money. How is that not pay to win??? Yes you can argue that you can still buy all this stuff with AD. But do you realize how much longer that would even take to accumulate that amount of AD to buy everything I just listed? It does justify my claim.

The next thing they will probably do is release a class you have to pay for because at this point I would not be surprised. After all they have not released a class in over two years. OR one that is more likely to actually happen is a daily limit for how many seals you can obtain in a day. That one I can see them doing 100%.

cattman5

Look the only thing you can not send to alts to salvage is the stuff we use to buy with elemental seals. All the drops in dungeons and other places you can still send to alts. Plus you can buy shards make an enchant and make way more then with salvage.

Also remember that you are being entertained for free if you are not spending any real money.

plasticbat

isaintify1 said:

pitshade said:

I am sure that they promised that seal items woukd be BtA which was what I was basing the above on. Yes this did not come to pass and the devs have repeatedly failed to respond to requests for clarification on their intent. This still doesn't mean salvage was nerfed, mor does it justify your absurd P2W claims or failure to note exactly how much the issue had been talked about.

Making AD on multiple toons has been nerfed. You can no longer salvage gear on toons unless you play them. This IS a "Salvage" nerf. I call it that because I cannot think of a better name to describe it. This has been talked about a lot on multiple forum topics that have been either removed or are not in the recent listings. IT IS leaning towards P2W because they just realeased all the campaigns in the zen market right with the salvage nerf. YOU can buy a max level toon basically with pure cash. You know that green stuff called money. You can buy a level 70 toon, buy all the campaign tokens that people spend years to finish. Buy all your gear and armor with ZEN(money). THEN you can buy all your power points with money. How is that not pay to win??? Yes you can argue that you can still buy all this stuff with AD. But do you realize how much longer that would even take to accumulate that amount of AD to buy everything I just listed? It does justify my claim.

The next thing they will probably do is release a class you have to pay for because at this point I would not be surprised. After all they have not released a class in over two years. OR one that is more likely to actually happen is a daily limit for how many seals you can obtain in a day. That one I can see them doing 100%.

You can salvage gear on another toon. You cannot salvage gear that you bought from seal vendor on another toon. The gear I mostly obtained are from dungeon and not from seal vendor. I may get 4 pieces from dungeon before I can buy one from seal vendor. I have been passing gears to alt in the pass week and did not even buy one piece from seal vendor. If you want to get easy blue gear using the main character, do portal quest in RD and then pass the gear to the alt.

isaintify1

cattman5 said:

Look the only thing you can not send to alts to salvage is the stuff we use to buy with elemental seals. All the drops in dungeons and other places you can still send to alts. Plus you can buy shards make an enchant and make way more then with salvage.



Also remember that you are being entertained for free if you are not spending any real money.

It costs 5k AD to buy a dungeon key without VIP most drops in dungeons are not worth 5kAD unless you are lucky enough to get a chest piece or more than one drop. I find myself losing AD in dungeons after a certain period of time. T1s you are almost guaranteed to lose AD. Also buy shards to make a enchant? You are kidding right lol? its currently 410k AD for a coal ward, its not reliable to make AD off of those.

plasticbat

isaintify1 said:

cattman5 said:

Look the only thing you can not send to alts to salvage is the stuff we use to buy with elemental seals. All the drops in dungeons and other places you can still send to alts. Plus you can buy shards make an enchant and make way more then with salvage.



Also remember that you are being entertained for free if you are not spending any real money.

It costs 5k AD to buy a dungeon key without VIP most drops in dungeons are not worth 5kAD unless you are lucky enough to get a chest piece or more than one drop. I find myself losing AD in dungeons after a certain period of time. T1s you are almost guaranteed to lose AD. Also buy shards to make a enchant? You are kidding right lol? its currently 410k AD for a coal ward, its not reliable to make AD off of those.

Do portal quest in RD then.

pitshade

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

isaintify1

pitshade said:

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

Because not everyone has VIP or likes to have VIP. I personally do but I am thinking more of them in that situation. Also if you are running 20 dungeons a day YOU HAVE to buy keys. Because you will use up your amount. Yeah but what about the new players who have no idea how to even make AD. They are gonna see VIP and buy it with real money not AD.

greywynd

You can buy the SKT rings from the seal vendor to salvage.

plasticbat

isaintify1 said:

pitshade said:

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

Because not everyone has VIP or likes to have VIP. I personally do but I am thinking more of them in that situation. Also if you are running 20 dungeons a day YOU HAVE to buy keys. Because you will use up your amount. Yeah but what about the new players who have no idea how to even make AD. They are gonna see VIP and buy it with real money not AD.

New player would not get any seal until they become experience player. If you can run 20 T1 dungeons a day and exceed raw AD refinement daily limit everyday and aware they can pass gear to alt to salvage, they are not exactly new player anymore.

How many new player know they can pass gear to alt to salvage? I know people who played for years and do not even know about that.

reg1981

greywynd said:

You can buy the SKT rings from the seal vendor to salvage.

Yes you can but I think the current issue is they are still BtC when we were all expecting BtA. The character gear is BtA I can confirm that but I've not purchased a ring yet!!

isaintify1

plasticbat said:

isaintify1 said:

pitshade said:

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

Because not everyone has VIP or likes to have VIP. I personally do but I am thinking more of them in that situation. Also if you are running 20 dungeons a day YOU HAVE to buy keys. Because you will use up your amount. Yeah but what about the new players who have no idea how to even make AD. They are gonna see VIP and buy it with real money not AD.

New player would not get any seal until they become experience player. If you can run 20 T1 dungeons a day and exceed raw AD refinement daily limit everyday and aware they can pass gear to alt to salvage, they are not exactly new player anymore.

How many new player know they can pass gear to alt to salvage? I know people who played for years and do not even know about that.

I was not refering to them I was saying that I myself run 20dungeons + a day and so I have to purchase my dungeons keys with AD. But a new player will not have that luxary because they cannot get that much AD. If they can only run T1s currently there is no guaranteed drop of getting a piece of gear they need. So they could be wasting a LOT of time farming the dungeons to get the max AD JUST SO they can buy a key to open the chest. Also that is the problem... you can no longer pass gear to other toons to salvage.

plasticbat

isaintify1 said:

plasticbat said:

isaintify1 said:

pitshade said:

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

Because not everyone has VIP or likes to have VIP. I personally do but I am thinking more of them in that situation. Also if you are running 20 dungeons a day YOU HAVE to buy keys. Because you will use up your amount. Yeah but what about the new players who have no idea how to even make AD. They are gonna see VIP and buy it with real money not AD.

New player would not get any seal until they become experience player. If you can run 20 T1 dungeons a day and exceed raw AD refinement daily limit everyday and aware they can pass gear to alt to salvage, they are not exactly new player anymore.

How many new player know they can pass gear to alt to salvage? I know people who played for years and do not even know about that.

I was not refering to them I was saying that I myself run 20dungeons + a day and so I have to purchase my dungeons keys with AD. But a new player will not have that luxary because they cannot get that much AD. If they can only run T1s currently there is no guaranteed drop of getting a piece of gear they need. So they could be wasting a LOT of time farming the dungeons to get the max AD JUST SO they can buy a key to open the chest. Also that is the problem... you can no longer pass gear to other toons to salvage.

This is about the stuff obtained from seal dealer cannot be salvaged anymore.

How do the new player get seal so that they can buy stuff from seal dealer?
1. Dungeon. If they do dungeon and cannot loot (because they don't have a key), I don't expect anyone will do that 20 times everyday.
Talking about using dungeon to get seal without having keys is kind of moot.
2. Certain HE such as the one in RD that give 50 seal. If they can play in RD, they can do portal quest (that does not give seal) to get blue gear for salvage.
3. HE in another area. I don't think those give any significant amount of seal.

This "salvage" issue is mainly for those who do dungeon a lot. If they do dungeon a lot, they usually have keys already.
If you used to do dungeon a lot without key, may be you should think about farming portal quest instead.

armadeonx

Isn't it still the case that all gear drops are BtA? Gear bought with protector seals was/is BtC isn't it? It was just the blue stuff that was BtA.

plasticbat

armadeonx said:

Isn't it still the case that all gear drops are BtA? Gear bought with protector seals was/is BtC isn't it? It was just the blue stuff that was BtA.

Yes (I assume your drop means drop from boss and not from chest).
Yes. *** correction *** Yes, it was BtC (it was purple gear). Yes, ring is still BtC. No, gear is now BtA (it is now un-restored relic gear).
Yes.

cattman5

The rings in the seal vendor store are BtC the other gear is BtA.

playasinnombre

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pitshade said:

You can have VIP without ever spending a dime in the game. Sell everything from the lockbox keys and you will make enough AD back and more plus have enough dungeon keys to run until you're sick of them. And frankly, I don't know why you would even think about spending 5K on a key. Those have never been anything other than a trap for the unwary.

Not necessarily. I have (had, ran out a few days ago) rank 5 VIP. On only one occasion have I earned enuff AD from selling lockbox drops to afford the next months VIP. I usually end up with 400 - 500 zen. Halfway there, but still it's a lot of grind to make up the difference.

armadeonx

plasticbat said:

armadeonx said:

Isn't it still the case that all gear drops are BtA? Gear bought with protector seals was/is BtC isn't it? It was just the blue stuff that was BtA.

Yes (I assume your drop means drop from boss and not from chest).
Yes. *** correction *** Yes, it was BtC (it was purple gear). Yes, ring is still BtC. No, gear is now BtA (it is now un-restored relic gear).
Yes.

Purple gear drops, (on the floor and from dungeon chests) I thought it was always BtA and that purples from the seal vendor were BtC - hopefully that hasn't changed? If I understand it correctly, the Elemental seals have been replaced with Protector seals and these now give unrestored armor that gives only 1k AD but they also give rings but these are BtC? How much do the rings salvage for?

If dungeon gear is still BtA but everything from seals is now BtC this would mean the difference applies only to the previous use of Elemental seals. Personally I never transferred blue stuff, only purple drops from runs but for anyone who did, this would be hindrance to them.

sorvikcorsair

armadeonx said:

plasticbat said:

armadeonx said:

Isn't it still the case that all gear drops are BtA? Gear bought with protector seals was/is BtC isn't it? It was just the blue stuff that was BtA.

Yes (I assume your drop means drop from boss and not from chest).
Yes. *** correction *** Yes, it was BtC (it was purple gear). Yes, ring is still BtC. No, gear is now BtA (it is now un-restored relic gear).
Yes.

Purple gear drops, (on the floor and from dungeon chests) I thought it was always BtA and that purples from the seal vendor were BtC - hopefully that hasn't changed? If I understand it correctly, the Elemental seals have been replaced with Protector seals and these now give unrestored armor that gives only 1k AD but they also give rings but these are BtC? How much do the rings salvage for?

If dungeon gear is still BtA but everything from seals is now BtC this would mean the difference applies only to the previous use of Elemental seals. Personally I never transferred blue stuff, only purple drops from runs but for anyone who did, this would be hindrance to them.

The Rings cost 300 Seals and salvage for 4400 AD. What sucks more in my limited opinion is that I used seal rings as easy gear for new alts and their companions. There are no belts or necks to buy with the seals that you can transfer either. Now that all shards cost 300 seals too makes you really think about what you will use your seals for.

dsn1118

Question:

You can get unbound league gear from fishing in Chult(already 3k AD on AH) so what is the point of making seal vendor gear bound at all.Just make them unbound so we could at least get something other than rank5-6s for our effort in dungeons.I mean even middle bosses in dungeons drop less gear nowadays.People do more than 3 runs in a dungeon so we have to buy keys but this new system cant even let me get half of my AD spent on keys most of the time

Unknown

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plasticbat

I think the change is 2 folds.

For some, it is considered a nerf because they cannot pass the seal ring to another alt to salvage.
For some who can hardly pass the dialy refine limit in average, it can be considered an increase of AD earning.

Before, you get 300 blue seal and can exchange for a blue ring. The salvage value was lower than the purple ring.
Now, for the same effort to get the seal, you get 300 purple seal and can exchange for a purple ring which has higher salvage value.

isaintify1

plasticbat said:

I think the change is 2 folds.

For some, it is considered a nerf because they cannot pass the seal ring to another alt to salvage.
For some who can hardly pass the dialy refine limit in average, it can be considered an increase of AD earning.

Before, you get 300 blue seal and can exchange for a blue ring. The salvage value was lower than the purple ring.
Now, for the same effort to get the seal, you get 300 purple seal and can exchange for a purple ring which has higher salvage value.

Yeah you can get more AD from salvaging in quantities. However with the lower amount of salvage that you were able to spread across 10 or so characters far exceeds the amount of AD you can currently obtain. It was a significant "nerf" to AD gain.

isaintify1

dsn1118 said:

Question:

You can get unbound league gear from fishing in Chult(already 3k AD on AH) so what is the point of making seal vendor gear bound at all.Just make them unbound so we could at least get something other than rank5-6s for our effort in dungeons.I mean even middle bosses in dungeons drop less gear nowadays.People do more than 3 runs in a dungeon so we have to buy keys but this new system cant even let me get half of my AD spent on keys most of the time

Yes and that is what I am trying to get people to understand with the whole key thing. Not everyone has a ton of keys, and have to buy their keys for 5,000AD. If its a new players and he has to purchase a key for 5,000, BUT can only do T1 dungeons which you will ALMOST never get that amount of AD back. Not to mention the chances of getting gear isnt that high. Buying this league gear is pointless as the gear is overpriced for 100k+ for some pieces.