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Mirage weapons huge bug

ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

Source: [email protected]

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  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    50%/50% if is a bug or intended. the illusions cast chilling cloud and steal time. They are coming from the weapon u use what do you think? i will remind and the duration is 10 seconds with 30 sec cooldown.
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    50%/50% if is a bug or intended. the illusions cast chilling cloud and steal time. They are coming from the weapon u use what do you think? i will remind and the duration is 10 seconds with 30 sec cooldown.
    Bug or not, still OP with them multi proccing renengade capstone (some said thats happening). So still needs fixing.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Cryptic Developer, Administrator Posts: 4,004 Community Manager
    edited July 2017
    Update!

    In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this.

    ****

    Hello! This is by design but I have relayed your feedback to the systems team and they'll look into it to see if any changes are necessary (such as an internal cooldown or anything like that). If I get any more info, I'll share it!
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User

    Update!

    In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this.

    ****

    Hello! This is by design but I have relayed your feedback to the systems team and they'll look into it to see if any changes are necessary (such as an internal cooldown or anything like that). If I get any more info, I'll share it!

    Thank you and teddy!. :)

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 463 Arc User

    Update!

    In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this.

    ****

    Hello! This is by design but I have relayed your feedback to the systems team and they'll look into it to see if any changes are necessary (such as an internal cooldown or anything like that). If I get any more info, I'll share it!

    7 minutes, was definetly a fast decision. Nice work :*
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • vasiamen1vasiamen1 Member Posts: 34 Arc User

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    List of CW-bugs by Sharp have 3 pages, but posted only mirage weapons...coincidence? ahaha
  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    And when the illusions die at start it procs nothing... and it doesn't offer any other kind of boost so if you take something away you should replace it with something else, isn't that right? . Lightning procs our cw feats too should we fix that also? and same is for some overload slots enchants...




  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    abyss of chaos for example why shouldnt proc from "my 3 allies" illusions when i mark enemies with my encounter?


    When you strike a foe with an Encounter Power you mark them with Abyss. When an ally strikes that foe they consume Abyss to deal 12/24/36/48/60% of your weapon damage.

  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    oria1 said:

    And when the illusions die at start it procs nothing... and it doesn't offer any other kind of boost so if you take something away you should replace it with something else, isn't that right? . Lightning procs our cw feats too should we fix that also? and same is for some overload slots enchants...

    agree in combat can they stay alive 100% of the time?
    also i will add if you happen to cast an encounter at the end of the fight or while you are walking ( casting your shield) you can activate mirage and waste their bonus.
    VS dummy tests ofcourse they are 100% alive.
  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    50%/50% if is a bug or intended. the illusions cast chilling cloud and steal time. They are coming from the weapon u use what do you think? i will remind and the duration is 10 seconds with 30 sec cooldown.
    Bug or not, still OP with them multi proccing renengade capstone (some said thats happening). So still needs fixing.
    All I will say is this.
    "Chaos Magic
    Feat
    Dealing Damage to targets has a chance to apply Chaos Magic to yourself and allies within 50'.

    When you are affected by Chaos Magic you cannot be affected by a new Chaos Magic.

    You will be affected by Chaotic Growth, Chaotic Nexus, or Chaotic Fury."

    When we are basing and asking for a nerf based on what we heard.... well something is not right then.




  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    50%/50% if is a bug or intended. the illusions cast chilling cloud and steal time. They are coming from the weapon u use what do you think? i will remind and the duration is 10 seconds with 30 sec cooldown.
    Bug or not, still OP with them multi proccing renengade capstone (some said thats happening). So still needs fixing.
    ......
  • fuglymookfuglymook Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    so we are making changes based on hearsay now, where is the proof? Enchants do the exact same thing......
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    vasiamen1 said:

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: Sharp[email protected]

    List of CW-bugs by Sharp have 3 pages, but posted only mirage weapons...coincidence? ahaha
    Hey, you have to choose youre battles. I know people are using the broken HAMSTER in PvP so thats what I wanted to get it fixed.

    @fuglymook
    I have at least two players saying that they can multiproc the renegade capstone in PvP weapons, sharp says he couldn't so Im not sure if you can or not. But if you dont wanna trust some random hearsay, what about sharp? In his own words: they broken OP in pve

    Even without the capstone proc, the weapons are broken. Multiproc aura of courage, spell twisting. You can stack debuffs when you shouldn't and there is probably a ton of other stuff that is happening that shouldn't, good and bad.

    Some more reports in another thread.
    https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1229906/mirage-weapons-bug

    Im asking for a bugfix, not a nerf. I cant say if the weapons will need a buff or not after being fixed, I dont have the weapons so I cant argue for or against that. But clearly they perform way better than intended right now.
    Post edited by ejziponken on

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    vasiamen1 said:

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    List of CW-bugs by Sharp have 3 pages, but posted only mirage weapons...coincidence? ahaha
    Hey, you have to choose youre battles. I know people are using the broken HAMSTER in PvP so thats what I wanted to get it fixed.

    @fuglymook
    I have at least two players saying that they can multiproc the renegade capstone in PvP weapons, sharp says he couldn't so Im not sure if you can or not. But if you dont wanna trust some random hearsay, what about sharp? In his own words: they broken OP in pve

    Even without the capstone proc, the weapons are broken. Multiproc aura of courage, spell twisting. You can stack debuffs when you shouldn't and there is probably a ton of other stuff that is happening that shouldn't, good and bad.

    Some more reports in another thread.
    https://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1229906/mirage-weapons-bug

    Im asking for a bugfix, not a nerf. I cant say if the weapons will need a buff or not after being fixed, I dont have the weapons so I cant argue for or against that. But clearly they perform way better than intended right now.
    "Chaos Magic
    Feat
    Dealing Damage to targets has a chance to apply Chaos Magic to yourself and allies within 50'.
    When you are affected by Chaos Magic you cannot be affected by a new Chaos Magic.
    You will be affected by Chaotic Growth, Chaotic Nexus, or Chaotic Fury."

    So regardless if the weapon procs it or not, you will only have it (and your team) once. Think of it like this, If you run with 3 renegades in your group, all 3 can proc chaos magic too, but you wont have the buff X 3.

    When I did my test we were 2 renegades with mirages and we always no matter the No of procs, had ONLY 1 buff, (the 1st cast), if you know and seen different then its a problem with the capstone and not the weapon.
    Post edited by oria1 on




  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    There is a bug that causes the Renegade capstone to multiproc however it isn't caused by the Mirage weapons and it seems completely random as to when it actually occurs (if you try to replicate it in a controlled environment, it doesn't occur.) The bug occurs without the set though.
  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User

    There is a bug that causes the Renegade capstone to multiproc however it isn't caused by the Mirage weapons and it seems completely random as to when it actually occurs (if you try to replicate it in a controlled environment, it doesn't occur.) The bug occurs without the set though.

    Yes Fab and even tho it procs they player only receives the 1st buff of what ever that might be. I've never seen a player have both fury and nexus or 2 x nexus even with multiple renegades.




  • vasiamen1vasiamen1 Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    There is a bug that causes the Renegade capstone to multiproc however it isn't caused by the Mirage weapons and it seems completely random as to when it actually occurs (if you try to replicate it in a controlled environment, it doesn't occur.) The bug occurs without the set though.

    @ejziponken So what you gonna say right now? "Close my topic i'm just deceived admin"?

  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    vasiamen1 said:

    There is a bug that causes the Renegade capstone to multiproc however it isn't caused by the Mirage weapons and it seems completely random as to when it actually occurs (if you try to replicate it in a controlled environment, it doesn't occur.) The bug occurs without the set though.

    @ejziponken So what you gonna say right now? "Close my topic i'm just deceived admin"?

    The stuff he reported being procced by mirages in his original post, is actually procced by them.
  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    And to clear some things and misconceptions:

    1. Even if it procs storm spell it only procs once, Very rare to proc a 2nd. So we have one extra storm spell every 30 sec.. so broken.
    2. Creeping frost will only proc once, so its not like mirage makes you proc a 2nd creeping. Its either you or the weapon for 12 sec and since illusions die after 10 sec (if you are lucky, most times they die in 2-3sec) you only get 1 proc, that you would have anyway.
    3. Chaos magic can only be applied ONCE, no matter the number of procs and its not related to weapon.
    4. Spell twist, will give you at best a cooldown on ONE specific skill (try do 3 steal times) and that happens every 30 sec
    5. I haven't seen it proc smolder but it will refresh and convert smolder to rimefire (bye bye stacking) IF you go close and that is because of icy veins (if you have points in it) since the skills they perform don't proc smolder (chilling cloud, steal time) but I have to triple check this.

    All the other weapons give a bonus (add defense and convert to power, lifesteal etc) and mirage only procs SOME (not all) feats and assuming that the illusions don't die which they do often unless you are all the way back in which case the illusions don't attack anyway... Really HUGE BUG.






  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    vasiamen1 said:

    There is a bug that causes the Renegade capstone to multiproc however it isn't caused by the Mirage weapons and it seems completely random as to when it actually occurs (if you try to replicate it in a controlled environment, it doesn't occur.) The bug occurs without the set though.

    @ejziponken So what you gonna say right now? "Close my topic i'm just deceived admin"?

    I didnt mention the renegade capstone in the first post just because I knew thefabricant didnt succeed in reproducering it. And I stated already that even without the capstone being procced, there is enough reason to fix the weapons.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • dupeksdupeks Member Posts: 1,789 Arc User


    Im asking for a bugfix, not a nerf. I cant say if the weapons will need a buff or not after being fixed, I dont have the weapons so I cant argue for or against that. But clearly they perform way better than intended right now.

    Update!

    In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this.

    ****

    Hello! This is by design but I have relayed your feedback to the systems team and they'll look into it to see if any changes are necessary (such as an internal cooldown or anything like that). If I get any more info, I'll share it!

    Regardless of whether you agree it _should_ work this way or not, it's misleading to say you're asking for a fix. Julia literally confirmed that the behavior you reported was by design.

    You asked for a nerf, and you got it. Simple as that.

    I can see how the mechanics were borked in PVP, but it's always a sad day when we are making changes to the game to "fix PVP" before PVP can really be fixed (there's so much more that needs to happen).

    But the result is that anyone who invested in Mirage weps for PvE is about to get screwed unless they compensate for this nerf. Because the multi-proccing (as sharp pointed out) was the only reason these weps were any good at all.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't like the thought process and rush to judgement here :(
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    I will add the abyss of chaos proc from multiple sources. IF you remove your active companions and your summoned companions and ignore the fact you have and other allies around you then the procs drop to 3 per encounter ( 1 from each illusion ). So if you do 4 encounters in 10 seconds you will have 12 abyss procs from illusions.

    PVP: 12 abyss procs from illusions with 30k power and full debuffing is around 3k( if enemy do not resist the abyss) per hit 3k x12=36000 but if :
    1: illusions stay alive and 2 : caster need to be near to his illusions and attack or there is a delay on their attacks and make them useless( please fix).

    And put the things to the right prospective we are talking about 50k damage(include and some other debuff and more power buff from other class) over 10 second(if they dont die) if you think that is broken then fix it .

    @nitocris83
    Please forward to the devs the new info of this thread so they can make a better decision one will be based on facts and not based on speculations and none full facts.
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    oria1 said:

    And to clear some things and misconceptions:

    1. Even if it procs storm spell it only procs once, Very rare to proc a 2nd. So we have one extra storm spell every 30 sec.. so broken.
    2. Creeping frost will only proc once, so its not like mirage makes you proc a 2nd creeping. Its either you or the weapon for 12 sec and since illusions die after 10 sec (if you are lucky, most times they die in 2-3sec) you only get 1 proc, that you would have anyway.
    3. Chaos magic can only be applied ONCE, no matter the number of procs and its not related to weapon.
    4. Spell twist, will give you at best a cooldown on ONE specific skill (try do 3 steal times) and that happens every 30 sec
    5. I haven't seen it proc smolder but it will refresh and convert smolder to rimefire (bye bye stacking) IF you go close and that is because of icy veins (if you have points in it) since the skills they perform don't proc smolder (chilling cloud, steal time) but I have to triple check this.

    All the other weapons give a bonus (add defense and convert to power, lifesteal etc) and mirage only procs SOME (not all) feats and assuming that the illusions don't die which they do often unless you are all the way back in which case the illusions don't attack anyway... Really HUGE BUG.


    What about the multiproc of the frost weapon enchantment debuff and the aura of courage? You seem to have left them out for some reason..

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    dupeks said:


    Im asking for a bugfix, not a nerf. I cant say if the weapons will need a buff or not after being fixed, I dont have the weapons so I cant argue for or against that. But clearly they perform way better than intended right now.

    Update!

    In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this.

    ****

    Hello! This is by design but I have relayed your feedback to the systems team and they'll look into it to see if any changes are necessary (such as an internal cooldown or anything like that). If I get any more info, I'll share it!

    Regardless of whether you agree it _should_ work this way or not, it's misleading to say you're asking for a fix. Julia literally confirmed that the behavior you reported was by design.

    You asked for a nerf, and you got it. Simple as that.

    I can see how the mechanics were borked in PVP, but it's always a sad day when we are making changes to the game to "fix PVP" before PVP can really be fixed (there's so much more that needs to happen).

    But the result is that anyone who invested in Mirage weps for PvE is about to get screwed unless they compensate for this nerf. Because the multi-proccing (as sharp pointed out) was the only reason these weps were any good at all.

    I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't like the thought process and rush to judgement here :(
    A design can have flaws and that seems to be the case here since they decided that it should not work like that. And obviously this isn't a pure "PvP" fix since its as much broken in PvE, maybe even worse there.

    I cant say Im sorry for anyone that has invested AD, time, RP etc in a weapon set just because they are broken OP or in the frost enchantment for the same reason. Now I do agree that IF the weapons are under performing, then they might need a buff. But please stop crying about devs fixing something that is very broken and stop acting like Im the bad guy here.

    I mean, if they are not fixing this weapon then I want compensation for investing my AD, time, RP in a different weaponset without hidden superpowers like the mirage set.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • oria1oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    oria1 said:

    And to clear some things and misconceptions:

    1. Even if it procs storm spell it only procs once, Very rare to proc a 2nd. So we have one extra storm spell every 30 sec.. so broken.
    2. Creeping frost will only proc once, so its not like mirage makes you proc a 2nd creeping. Its either you or the weapon for 12 sec and since illusions die after 10 sec (if you are lucky, most times they die in 2-3sec) you only get 1 proc, that you would have anyway.
    3. Chaos magic can only be applied ONCE, no matter the number of procs and its not related to weapon.
    4. Spell twist, will give you at best a cooldown on ONE specific skill (try do 3 steal times) and that happens every 30 sec
    5. I haven't seen it proc smolder but it will refresh and convert smolder to rimefire (bye bye stacking) IF you go close and that is because of icy veins (if you have points in it) since the skills they perform don't proc smolder (chilling cloud, steal time) but I have to triple check this.

    All the other weapons give a bonus (add defense and convert to power, lifesteal etc) and mirage only procs SOME (not all) feats and assuming that the illusions don't die which they do often unless you are all the way back in which case the illusions don't attack anyway... Really HUGE BUG.


    What about the multiproc of the frost weapon enchantment debuff and the aura of courage? You seem to have left them out for some reason..
    1st: You didn't mention frost so I didn't left it out. Its a bad behavior of frost since it can multiproc by other ways too and NOT related to the weapon itself, on top of that it can proc frost on the 2nd cast of illusions which most bosses arent alive by then anyway and even if it is, the 2nd cast of frost expires fast to my knowledge. Either way its the frost problem and not the weapons, as the same can happen to some extent with any enchant on any weapon (easier to see is with the plaguefire going to 9 stacks).

    2nd: "Aura of Courage: Class Feature, You and allies within 30' of you deal 1% of your Maximum Hit Points as bonus damage". Find me a reason since illusions as well as other things DEAL damage why they SHOULDN'T proc aura, same happens with companions and enchants too. Now to make things better check HOW much damage exactly is AOC. Does it proc of MY hp or the illusions HP? Food for thought.

    Now tell me please why don't you answer to my other points? i would advice instead of trying to see who is right to try to see what is true and real and not guesswork and hearsay.


    Post edited by oria1 on




  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    I am wondering how many changes happened in the past based on half information and wrong facts.
    IT seems devs get very fast their decision without actually verify their info.
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    edited July 2017

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    Why is this a bug? Just because an illusion can proc these skills? Why does thefabricant have the last say of what is or isn't a bug? Julia @nitocris83 reported that it is by design, yet you still insist it is a bug?

    This is a waste of time and resources of the devs imo.

    Close this thread, it sounds like whining.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • ejziponkenejziponken Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    vordayn said:

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    Why is this a bug? Just because an illusion can proc these skills? Why does thefabricant have the last say of what is or isn't a bug? Julia @nitocris83 reported that it is by design, yet you still insist it is a bug?

    This is a waste of time and resources of the devs imo.

    Close this thread, it sounds like whining.
    I can agree that calling it a bug might be wrong, A flaw in the design is probably more right. The devs decided that it shouldnt work like that, not thefabricant. Not sure if you only read half of @nitocris83 post, but the other half was:

    "In what is probably the quickest decision in game dev history, design has agreed that it actually should not be proccing so they'll be looking into changing this. !"

    I Agree, lots of whining, and thread can be locked since they already said its gonna be fixed.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    edited July 2017
    vordayn said:

    The mirage weapons can proc Abyss of Chaos, Weapon Enchantments, Storm Spell, Creeping Frost, Smoulder, Spell Twisting and Aura of Courage.

    Source: [email protected]

    Why is this a bug? Just because an illusion can proc these skills? Why does thefabricant have the last say of what is or isn't a bug? Julia @nitocris83 reported that it is by design, yet you still insist it is a bug?

    This is a waste of time and resources of the devs imo.

    Close this thread, it sounds like whining.
    @vordayn they say its intended in the lower half yeah so maybe it should be moved to player feedback. *Shrugs.* I think its a bug and that it is easier for them to classify it as working as intended then to actually fix it but who am I to argue.
    Post edited by thefabricant on
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