Mod 12 (Mob DR)

thefabricant

Here is a table of mobs I have tested so far in the new zone:



Things to note:

TRex DR is weird he has 2 phases, 1 where he is at 175% DR, which is very hard to pierce. The second phase he is vulnerable and takes greatly increased damage. I am not sure yet how vulnerable he is. It is a real pain to test this because he spawns very rarely and often another player will kill him first

Some mobs have red shields and have massively increased dr, this mechanic will also need further testing to determine how it works.

I have probably missed some mobs, they are very densely packed and its hard to see every mob type, but more than 60% DR is definitely a thing.

All in all, my 1 complaint about mod 12 so far is the ambush mechanic is SUPER irritating, otherwise I actually quite enjoy the new zone and I think this is a positive change to the game.

checkmatein3

Sharp, I don't see the Yuan Ti destroyer on your list. Can you test that one? I was hitting it with Anvil and it was only doing about 18k dmg with crit.

thefabricant

checkmatein3 said:

Sharp, I don't see the Yuan Ti destroyer on your list. Can you test that one? I was hitting it with Anvil and it was only doing about 18k dmg with crit.

@checkmatein3 done

jonkoca

So looks like around 80% arpen will do for most everything..?

thefabricant

jonkoca said:

So looks like around 80% arpen will do for most everything..?

Not sure of this yet, remember, this is open world and not the new dungeon.

smulch

I'm not sure I understand that spreadsheet.

How much DR did you run with?

armadeonx

80% would make sense, I was kinda expecting it to be in the 70-80% range. I'll keep checking here for updates, I'm passing the info on to my alliance via FB group.

michela123

If you test Karkinos, the boss crab at the beginning, no one will disturb you.

thefabricant

smulch said:

I'm not sure I understand that spreadsheet.

How much DR did you run with?

@smulch that isn't relevant, I am checking how much DR the monsters have, the RI column was how much RI had during that particular sampling since I checked some monsters with multiple RI values to see how it behaved, or if a monster had excessive amounts of DR.

checkmatein3

thefabricant said:

checkmatein3 said:

Sharp, I don't see the Yuan Ti destroyer on your list. Can you test that one? I was hitting it with Anvil and it was only doing about 18k dmg with crit.

@checkmatein3 done

Thanks Mate!

jonkoca

I guess I'll use my old gwf sigil, loyal avenger gear and legacy axebeak for the day to day stuff, and the SH boon on top for the big boys if necessary. Thanx for all the testing as ever sharp.

smulch

thefabricant said:

smulch said:

I'm not sure I understand that spreadsheet.

How much DR did you run with?

@smulch that isn't relevant, I am checking how much DR the monsters have, the RI column was how much RI had during that particular sampling since I checked some monsters with multiple RI values to see how it behaved, or if a monster had excessive amounts of DR.

It's relevant in the sense that I needed to know how to read that spreadsheet :P

armadeonx

smulch said:

thefabricant said:

smulch said:

I'm not sure I understand that spreadsheet.

How much DR did you run with?

@smulch that isn't relevant, I am checking how much DR the monsters have, the RI column was how much RI had during that particular sampling since I checked some monsters with multiple RI values to see how it behaved, or if a monster had excessive amounts of DR.

It's relevant in the sense that I needed to know how to read that spreadsheet :P

I think he meant that how much he had did not impact on his ability to measure it - so the end value of "DR" is a statement of their DR regardless of his ability to penetrate it.

thefabricant

I would like to clarify something here:

Those mobs with the values 80% on the sheet have additional mechanics that take them temporarily above 80%, their actual DR is not 80%, it is lower and they are above it for a brief period of time. The image is not clear (and I apologize for that) since it does say 80% DR, when it actually means that at minimum for those mobs 80% damage was mitigated when that shielding mechanic was active. The tyrannosaur actually has, during the period it is resilient, 175% DR, but since it cannot mitigate player damage beyond 20% effectiveness, unless you actually stack extreme amounts of RI on preview to check that value, it will simply display as 20% effectiveness. I have not checked if you can go beyond the trex's DR, or shielded enemies as of yet. My guess is they work with a similar mechanic though. At the end of the day, there is likely no point to stacking enough RI to counter the temporary DR mechanic though.

The highest permanent mob DR I have found so far in mod 12 is 75%, I have not found a monster with more than 75% permanent DR as of yet, but I also have not checked every monster (or even a single monster in the new dungeon as it is not on preview), so please do not quote me saying that you need 75% RI in mod 12, as it could be more.

jonkoca

I checked my arpen levels yesterday, from avenger pet bondings, legacy axebeak, and stronghold boons, I hit a high of 187%. Flipping an SH boon choice from power to arpen between phases is doable.

michela123

This is the result of the test I've done yesterday with Karkinos.
At the beginning his DR is 124%. If you have between 0 and 44% resistance ignored, you hit him with 20% effectiveness, then you finally start increasing the damage; with 124% resistance ignored you reach 100% effectiveness.
I am not sure how you break the shield. My guess is that your chance progressively increases as you damage him. Usually you break it between 90% and 80% hp. During this phase, he is knocked down and you hit him with increased effectiveness for 10 seconds. When he gets up he has 124% DR, but you can break the shield again.
During the vulnerability phase:
- with 0 resistance ignored, you hit him with 196% effectiveness
- every 1% resistance ignored adds 2,578947% effectiveness
- with 24% resistance ignored you reach the cap, that is 257,8947% effectiveness
Note: you obtain 2,578947 dividing 196 by 76.

imperiousshini

Arm Pen levels that need Legacy Axe Beak + SH boon + Avenger Set to be pierced, are a bit extraordinary, I don't think Devs should aim in having players using extinct items to be the new mobs.

Other than that the ordinary Arm Pen levels of 75% or 80% is ok.
But for the rest of the mob values that have 175-180DR I think a shield or temp Hit Points would work better than having the DR going up and down temporarily.

dupeks

imperiousshini said:

Arm Pen levels that need Legacy Axe Beak + SH boon + Avenger Set to be pierced, are a bit extraordinary, I don't think Devs should aim in having players using extinct items to be the new mobs.

Other than that the ordinary Arm Pen levels of 75% or 80% is ok.
But for the rest of the mob values that have 175-180DR I think a shield or temp Hit Points would work better than having the DR going up and down temporarily.

I don't think that the "boost" DR levels are meant to be penetrated.

I don't really have an issue with using these temporary DR boosts as a new type of combat mechanic. It's akin to various invulnerability mechanics that bosses have, but a little different. The key is you have to figure out how to make the enemy drop their shield. Existing invulnerability mechanics usually do that through some external interaction (red wolf in eGWD, tears in Nostura / mSP) and this new "boost DR" mechanic allows for a new twist: "do enough damage through high DR to stagger and then the bad guy drops his shield and loses the DR".

I also like that it appears that they are making it pretty convenient to swap over from power to ArPen SH boons, and for a majority of end-game players that should allow them to for the most part deal with the new zone without having to completely rebuild around it (at least for now, until we get more content like that).

beckylunatic

dupeks said:

I also like that it appears that they are making it pretty convenient to swap over from power to ArPen SH boons

They still need to be careful that they are not designing content around the assumption that everyone trying to play that content has access to maxed-out SH boons. And that basically goes for as long as NW's lifespan runs. There will never be sufficient deterrent for some players to try to make a go of a new guild, no matter how much the ones that are currently behind are helped in catching up.

dupeks

beckylunatic said:

dupeks said:

I also like that it appears that they are making it pretty convenient to swap over from power to ArPen SH boons

They still need to be careful that they are not designing content around the assumption that everyone trying to play that content has access to maxed-out SH boons. And that basically goes for as long as NW's lifespan runs. There will never be sufficient deterrent for some players to try to make a go of a new guild, no matter how much the ones that are currently behind are helped in catching up.

That's a good point, and one I think I have a tendency to overlook personally. I don't think that SH boons need to be maxed out for the swapping to make sense (it's dramatic overkill at least for the zone, we'll see about dungeon), but you're right that they shouldn't build around the SH boons being needed at any level.

I suppose you have mounts with ArPen too that can help. According to Sharp's heavily caveated and hedged preliminary findings, it appears that the new base DR for new mobs in the zone (not the dugeon) gets bumped to 75% up from 60%. Anything higher is really a new "boost DR" mechanic where there's some way to pierce their armor back down via combat mechanics. That's 15% meaning 1,500 ArPen stat points, which you could get by switching to one of the epic ArPen mount passives. Or a piece of gear / enchant on a bonding companion.

beckylunatic

I shouldn't have said maxed-out, and even my wee guild is going to have a viable option to swap between armor pen and power by the time this launches.

I'd say they always have to operate from the position that equipment on your character will be capable of providing adequate resistance ignored, even if that does require choosing gear that's doesn't have so much sexy power/crit/recovery. Switching one mount bonus to another assumes you have an array of epic mounts to be able to do so... and they should fully realize for how many players the Siegebreaker Griffon is their first epic.

Likewise bonding companion gear providing armor pen. PC players who've been able to keep their old Loyal Avenger items in use are at a significant advantage over console players, though at least armor pen does roll on IG items.

And of course there's no accounting for clueless players who apparently interact with nobody and aren't interested in doing any research. I inspected a CW yesterday who was running in Dread Ring with several ardent coin elixir buffs, res sickness (this combination is why I checked him out), and a big fat 775 armor penetration. If they're going to add more sources of freebie artifacts, they should consider slapping armor pen on them as a dump stat not wanted by players who carefully plan their entire layout, instead of regen and deflection. Make it a QoL improvement in a greater sense than the sheer existence of something to fill empty artifact slots.

niadan

Adding mechanics that drop shields like prones, stuns, or other types of cc, would make life more interesting than just blow the mob up and move on.

Think of it this way, if I were to fight a dino in RL, I would trip the HAMSTER as it would be very hard for him to get back up.

If that is the intent, then more power to the devs.

beckylunatic

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/if-t-rex-fell-how-did-it/

niadan

With the new "Topple" mechanic, if I understand what was stated, we need to focus our dps on different angles of the dino to be more effective at toppling the dino, and that the current use of prones, stuns, etc is a bug.

I would love it if Icy Terrain would cause the T-Rex to slide uncontrollably waving his puny little arms trying hopelessly to maintain balance. I understand why this would not work as there would be too many GWFs caught under the collapse causing too many negative posts from said GWFs.

beckylunatic

Or people are toppling the dino and think they've proned it because they didn't know what they were looking at. Hard to say.

asterdahl

It may please some of you in this thread to know that in a future preview build, or at least by the live build, the target dummies in Port Nyanzaru have been updated. One represents an average enemy in Chult in terms of its defensive statistics, the other represents a Tomb of the Nine Gods boss. They have both been given visually distinct masks and sizes.

thefabricant

asterdahl said:

It may please some of you in this thread to know that in a future preview build, or at least by the live build, the target dummies in Port Nyanzaru have been updated. One represents an average enemy in Chult in terms of its defensive statistics, the other represents a Tomb of the Nine Gods boss. They have both been given visually distinct masks and sizes.

@asterdahl this is amazing, THANKS!

kolatmaster

thefabricant said:

asterdahl said:

It may please some of you in this thread to know that in a future preview build, or at least by the live build, the target dummies in Port Nyanzaru have been updated. One represents an average enemy in Chult in terms of its defensive statistics, the other represents a Tomb of the Nine Gods boss. They have both been given visually distinct masks and sizes.

@asterdahl this is amazing, THANKS!

Pretty sure this is @thefabricant right now...

nisckis

asterdahl said:

It may please some of you in this thread to know that in a future preview build, or at least by the live build, the target dummies in Port Nyanzaru have been updated. One represents an average enemy in Chult in terms of its defensive statistics, the other represents a Tomb of the Nine Gods boss. They have both been given visually distinct masks and sizes.

I do love you

fizgigtiznalkie

Now if only we could get a scoreboard with personal damage counter and timer so we could test loadouts on it... any chance you could re-use the portabello assets? (I'm on console).

michela123

So, the boss dummy has 85% DR. Anyway we'll directly test the new dungeon soon