High level guilds selling out

toodles

So... Looks like another high level guild has been bought up and their players been kicked out by let's say a guild that looks bad and plays even worse.

Is this something that is becoming a norm for neverwinter?

notsojoe

No word on who bought it.
But this really effects more then just the guild involved it effects the whole ps4 community. Why would i want to donate my time and ad into a guild just to log on one day and be removed from it because the leader sold it? What this is doing is putting a little bug in all the guild leaders head that "Oh if i quit this game i can just sell this guild full of people that made it what it is".
I'm not blaming the guild or person that bought it who i am blaming is the guild leaders that sell it instead of passing it down to someone that still enjoys the game and the community.

toodles

I feel you. That's why I started the post. I prolly won't look at it again but people who play the game need to know what they are investing in. It's already happened twice in a month. Hopefully people will be more weary. It might also get Arc looking into things (I know a farcry right?). Let's hope this gets noticed.

dupeks

toodles#1256 said:

I feel you. That's why I started the post. I prolly won't look at it again but people who play the game need to know what they are investing in. It's already happened twice in a month. Hopefully people will be more weary. It might also get Arc looking into things (I know a farcry right?). Let's hope this gets noticed.

Have any remaining guild leads / officers submit a ticket to CS.

When SH first launched (and guilds became valuable) we had a rash of this happen on PC. It was crappy, but sometimes CS was able to step in and intervene (selling guilds is not allowed under the ToS).

So the bad news is that it's often an uphill battle and it's unlikely you're going to get your guild back the same way it was before. But at least those that bought / sold can have justice catch up to them.

After the first batch of this kind of behavior, it will probably die down a bit. The people who remain are less likely to want to cash out in the same way.

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micky1p00

joe123thewayward said:

I have been hearing about stuff like this for years. Usually if a guild r7 is inactive for 30+ days someone else is offered the position automatically by cryptic. If someone who is just using the guild to house an alt becomes the replacement r7 they have been known to kick everyone and turn the guild into an alt dump guild for their main characters guild or sell it off.

After 30 days rank 6 get a button "claim leadership", after 30 more the next rank and so on. It's not random, and relies on a normal guild structure where higher ranks have higher chance to replace the leader in absence.

I think it's a fair system, 30 days for all the leadership to be absent is significant, and as such it's a good trade off, between allowing people to not login and forcing a guild not to be able to change alliance and such if the leadership is absent.

joe123thewayward said:

dupeks said:

toodles#1256 said:

I feel you. That's why I started the post. I prolly won't look at it again but people who play the game need to know what they are investing in. It's already happened twice in a month. Hopefully people will be more weary. It might also get Arc looking into things (I know a farcry right?). Let's hope this gets noticed.

Have any remaining guild leads / officers submit a ticket to CS.

When SH first launched (and guilds became valuable) we had a rash of this happen on PC. It was crappy, but sometimes CS was able to step in and intervene (selling guilds is not allowed under the ToS).

So the bad news is that it's often an uphill battle and it's unlikely you're going to get your guild back the same way it was before. But at least those that bought / sold can have justice catch up to them.

After the first batch of this kind of behavior, it will probably die down a bit. The people who remain are less likely to want to cash out in the same way.

I have talked to alot of people that have lost guilds to hackers and or guild sales over the last two years. None of them have ever gotten their guild back. Some quit the game in frustration others form 2.0 versions of their guild. I suspect many lower ranking guildies that get the boot just join other guilds.

I've heard about leaders kick other leaders (several people at rank 7), I've heard about people kicking and selling / transferring. I don't know about a high ranked guild being hacked and leadership replaced (not a bank robbery).

But I agree, if such thing happen, and my guild members will loose all the effort put into the guild, there is no doubt I'll quit the game.

ravenskya

So far all the ones that I've seen have been voluntarily sold by leadership - all to the same guild. I think part of the anger comes from the fact that they are buying up alliance helms, and the other guilds in the alliance don't have any say in the matter. Also, there is of course the TOS issues.

kreatyve

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

urabask

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

I mean if CS actually cared about the 149 or so customers in the guild that got screwed by a guild sale the way the ToS is worded is broad enough that you could reasonably have:

ToS said:

j. engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;

ToS said:

l. using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players;

ToS said:

n. take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.

apply to a guild sale.

dupeks

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

ravenskya

No, supposedly the one was sold for $1500 real world dollars... but that's just word of mouth. A friend was in a chat with someone who was told by the guy who raked in the $$. So who knows what is true.

bertrandx

dupeks said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

It would be considered going against TOS.

"4.7 Your Account may only to be used by you."

This sentence is clear enough and does not provide any grey areas of interpretation. EDIT: I just noticed... "may only to be used by" is that even gramatically correct ?

kreatyve

dupeks said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

Selling accounts is 100% against the ToS, even if it's for in-game currency.

ravenskya said:

No, supposedly the one was sold for $1500 real world dollars... but that's just word of mouth. A friend was in a chat with someone who was told by the guy who raked in the $$. So who knows what is true.

You can try to report it anyway, but it would be up to CS to decide what to do in this case.

urabask

bertrandx said:

dupeks said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

It would be considered going against TOS.

"4.7 Your Account may only to be used by you."

This sentence is clear enough and does not provide any grey areas of interpretation.

They could just have the guild leader invite the guy he's selling it to, demote everyone else and kick them then promote the buyer and leave the guild.

I don't understand how Cryptic/PWE can let sales like this slide when the sale of say a GH 20 helm guild is going to potentially make 1000+ players think about quitting the game. Even if they have to stretch to find a reason to fix stuff like this it certainly seems like it should be a more pressing issue.

nitocris83

Echoing what's been said about CS reports since they have the proper tools to do an investigation (though, of course, limited to in-game and player provided info)

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micky1p00

doublea2015 said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

huh its not just the guild leaders guild, its the members to they put forth resources into that coffer and then got taken for a ride lol for what someone elses needs? and I don't even play PS4 lol this sounds silly!!

Unless all the members agree, for example I've sold one of my storage guilds, in that case all of the members (me, myself and I) agreed and we split the payment adequately. In those cases it's in full compliance to the ToS.

bertrandx

urabask said:

bertrandx said:

dupeks said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

It would be considered going against TOS.

"4.7 Your Account may only to be used by you."

This sentence is clear enough and does not provide any grey areas of interpretation.

They could just have the guild leader invite the guy he's selling it to, demote everyone else and kick them then promote the buyer and leave the guild.

I don't understand how Cryptic/PWE can let sales like this slide when the sale of say a GH 20 helm guild is going to potentially make 1000+ players think about quitting the game. Even if they have to stretch to find a reason to fix stuff like this it certainly seems like it should be a more pressing issue.

No no - I was saying selling accounts is forbidden because for one, you, the creator of the account, are supposed to be the only user of it. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I should've quoted the last question only.

xinexix

@ravenskya

That's what I was told as well. No proof though and i doubt CS would do anything even if we did.

ravenskya

@xinexix No to sound cynical - but CS are the same guys that couldn't find my 25 evidence of evil and accused me of making it up, lol

xinexix

@ravenskya

I had completely forgot about that until now. Thanks for the laugh!

goodelove

I truly enjoy this game and have always supported it with $$$. But seeing this happen and realizing how much this unnamed guild who I know very well has been allowed to manipulate every aspect of this server I will be eliminating any further financial support to this game

fizgigtiznalkie

I've heard of at least two of these incidents, this needs to be stopped.

markeen

I haven't heard about this at all. So glad I am my own guild founder and play daily. Sorry to those who lost on their investments into these othe guilds. I understand the frustration. I was in a guild before I started my own. The founder was an online friend for years of gaming. I invested a lot into the coffer for GH R8. Then we had a disagreement on repository use. I was removed as well as anyone associated with me. I started my own guild after that. We don't have a lot of people but we also don't have the worry or stress of this issue.

<font color="orange">Mod edit: Please no guild advertising outside of the guild recruiting subforum.</font>

oldbaldyone

Not to be cynical...but what exactly do you guys want put in place to prevent this???

Guild leadership owns the SH. Guild leadership can be transferred and changed at any time. There is really nothing that cryptic can do to prevent this sort of thing from happening other than making guild leadership changed subject to a vote for all members....but then you are forcing someone to be the guild leader if you vote no.

This sucks and it's a core design flaw....but ultimately it is what it is now. There is nothing customer service will be able to do unless they can see what relating to payments made in game or something.

ambisinisterr

Pretty much what oldbaldyone said.

It's really cold to sell a guild but it would be nigh impossible to enforce any rule against selling them.

Any system I think of to stop it would be extremely cumbersome to guilds so it's really a no win situation.

markeen

I agree there isn't really much that could be done unless there was evidence the guild was sold for real life currency. I was able to get some details about the guild supposedly doing this. Crazy stuff indeed.

kreatyve

If you are concerned that your guild leader may sell your guild, you should probably be thinking about whether or not you want to be in that guild in the first place. It's always a good idea to try to get to know your guild leaders before you start getting invested in a guild.

fizgigtiznalkie

I know one of the guilds that was sold, the leader was actively running contests, active on the discord and gave no outward appearances that anything was happening, then boom, sold account, demoted all other officers. Check out the Reddit thread, the guild is rebuilding itself. As for what can be done, ban the account and remove the guild that was sold. There have been dozens of reports about it with exactly what happened.

wintersmoke

bertrandx said:

dupeks said:

kreatyve said:

Provided that it was sold for in-game goods - that is not a violation of the ToS. If you have evidence that it was sold for anything out of game, please send that evidence to Customer Service.

My mind jumped to cash sale.

Holy moly, selling guilds for in-game currency is allowed under the ToS?

Is selling accounts for in-game currency allowed under the ToS?

It would be considered going against TOS.

"4.7 Your Account may only to be used by you."

This sentence is clear enough and does not provide any grey areas of interpretation. EDIT: I just noticed... "may only to be used by" is that even gramatically correct ?

No... too many to's