Disarming Traps

mystar

Am I the only one who thinks this ability is a uesless joke....most of the time? With VIP members who can run through traps without being hurt...and those who load up on injury kits so they can run through too kinda renders the rogues skill useless. lol

And how many times have you manuevered to avoid springing a trap you know is there only to have your companion spring it and get in you injured?

Oh and those monsters standing on the trap so you can't disarm it.

Can the party not give the rogue cover and distract the monsters so he can disarm the trap? nope...you're stuck fighting him there and waiting til he's been beat til you can disarm it.....after you've likely sprung the trap.

lantern22

Yeah at the moment there is no need for trap disarming, never really was.

But you never know, in the new dungeon coming up it might needed again . . . . . ????

pitshade

Hopefully they will give out a free token to let everyone disarm traps, so people will stop using it against meaningful TR class balancing.

oldbaldyone

The only way to have traps make an impact realistically would be to have traps that basically kill if they are not disarmed when tripped. They would also have to present a reasonable alternative for groups without a Rogue in them - so you can take path A if you have a rogue, or path B (that takes a lot longer) if you don't have one. Or maybe an alternate path to an optional boss could be available if a rogue can disarm the trap or something..

greywynd

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

dread4moor

I view it more as a missed opportunity or poorly executed game mechanic.
If the dungeons were more D&D-like, suspense-filled crawls with randomly generated puzzles and traps to overcome... traps that actually killed you... this could be great.

Now that they are ripping-off Tomb of Horrors (cough) I mean making Tomb of Annihilation there is a great opportunity to rework how traps fit into game play.

This could also synergize with a TR rework, making TRs incredibly valuable to a run.

Imagine a dungeon filled with randomly generated one-shot deadly traps (that can be disarmed IN combat by a TR).
Lots of imaginative replayable opportunities there.

beckylunatic

greywynd said:

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

Also, monsters get hurt by traps too.

iandarksword

I'd like to see the disarming traps mechanic changed to a puzzle, where if the player successfully solves the puzzle the trap is disabled and experience is rewarded. I agree that making traps irrelevant through VIP, (and originally through the Lathander set) needs to change. Traps need not be lethal, but potent enough to warrant caution. Classes other than rogues could expend thievery kits to attempt disarmament.

hammbo1969

I know comments on World of Warcraft are frowned upon on other game's forums, but I remember a room in Blackwing Lair where my guild would not proceed until a number of rogues had completely cleared the room of traps.

Now in NW, I'm a rogue and I haven't disarmed a trap since level 15 where the novelty wore off.

ravenskya

I remember being shocked the first time I disarmed a trap on my TR and didn't get any XP for it... then I realized there wasn't any purpose to disarming them, and I couldn't disarm them in a fight (which is when I would have actually wanted to get them out from under my friend's feet). I'd like it to be useful if it's going to be there

plasticbat

greywynd said:

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

Well, that would be something that the person or group need to solve ... such as bring the monster away from the trap first, clean the room before disarm the trap.

These days, people wants to move fast, finish the dungeon in 3 minutes and not care about (because no consequence) doing these little things that used to be "important" in old games. On the other hand, I don't blame them because if we need to do the same dungeon 2000 times, do we really care about this little things after 10 times?

plasticbat

beckylunatic said:

greywynd said:

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

Also, monsters get hurt by traps too.

That is how we kill the boss in eCC in mod 6 .... good old days.

pitshade

Traps are a relic from the development stage of the game. Apart from 1 instance in the Dwarven King questline, every trap in the game dates back to then, either directly or because maps gets recycled. I doubt that they are even in the Dev's radar and if the new module features traps, they will doubtless be puzzle/jump through the hoops - or die. They won't be something a TR will be able to disarm.

As far as helping the TR class, there is an ongoing thread or two started by some of the best PVE TR on the PC. Many suggestions have been made, through strangely enough, none of these players seem to want to be disarming traps. There is a reason for that. This is a combat game and TR are a DPS class. It is not based around roleplaying except as window dressing and no other class seems to get afflicted by this nonsense.

mystar

greywynd said:

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

The monsters I'm thinking about standing on traps are the ones in cragmire crypts...at the beginning before you go down the stairs and then again in a hallway. They might not be standing right on the trap, but they're close enough to it where you can maybe disarm the first one but the second one activates combat.

And yes, I do realize you can't disarm traps while in combat...I mentioned that in the last part of my OP. If an enemy is being distracted in combat by other players or even companions why couldn't the rogue be able to disarm the trap? It's like asking the party to cover him while he disarms the trap.

greywynd said:

I'd like to see the disarming traps mechanic changed to a puzzle, where if the player successfully solves the puzzle the trap is disabled and experience is rewarded. I agree that making traps irrelevant through VIP, (and originally through the Lathander set) needs to change. Traps need not be lethal, but potent enough to warrant caution. Classes other than rogues could expend thievery kits to attempt disarmament.

I like the idea of puzzle traps, but that could make things difficult in parties...maybe in solo situations would be good.

I think giving VIP the ability to disarm traps rather than making members immune to them would have been a better option. Like plasticbat said...people want to move fast and finish the dungeon in 3 minutes. Yeah, we all just wanna rush to get the end result because doing the same task over and over and over again gets dull and boring...I can relate to that.

I'm still new to the game and I get that it's mainly based on combat rather than actual roleplaying, they have to combat side of the game pretty solid. Now if they started spending some time and resources to bring more balance in roleplaying to the game it would make it an even better game than it is. Combat is the main part of rpg games even in pen and paper, but the roleplay is what makes it interesting and fun leading up to the combat. All we're really doing is fighting the same monsters in different skins with higher numbers over and over and over again. Yeah it's fun to a certain point, but it's not what I think of when I think Dungeons & Dragons. The elements are there, but the gameplay isn't so much.

mystar

How about an ability to set traps....i mean why should the enemy get all the fun in setting traps?
Or how about a chance for the TR to pick the locks in chests at the end of dungeons...that would be really cool lol.

As a rogue, I look at those chests and think....should I waste my hard earned key to find a lame reward inside....if only they would allow me the chance to pick that lock, I know I can do it but they won't even let me try.

greywynd

VIP does not make one immune to traps. It makes them immune to injury; no longer needing injury kits. They still take damage, get stopped, etc.

If you want role-playing go to the Moonstone Mask.

mystar

yeah technically the immunity isn't to the trap itself....my point was to give the disarm trap skill rather than immunity even if it is immunity to injury.

greywynd

Yeah, no. See, you die and come back at the fire, you have injury. To get rid of that injury you have to stand around and do nothing for about 3 minutes. How long do you think the average party is going to wait for your injury to go away?

mystar

if you're concerned about keeping up with the party then use injury kits...the fire isn't the only option lol. Yeah that can get expensive if you don't care about disarming traps.
I know...a few seconds here and there to disarm traps takes way too long to care about disarming them.

greywynd

Part of the benefit of VIP is the open inventory space that used to hold injury kits.

wintersmoke

greywynd said:

Yeah, no. See, you die and come back at the fire, you have injury. To get rid of that injury you have to stand around and do nothing for about 3 minutes. How long do you think the average party is going to wait for your injury to go away?

They have reduces the campfire time to clear injuries. It only takes 30 seconds each now.

talon1970

pitshade said:

Traps are a relic from the development stage of the game. Apart from 1 instance in the Dwarven King questline, every trap in the game dates back to then, either directly or because maps gets recycled. I doubt that they are even in the Dev's radar and if the new module features traps, they will doubtless be puzzle/jump through the hoops - or die. They won't be something a TR will be able to disarm.



As far as helping the TR class, there is an ongoing thread or two started by some of the best PVE TR on the PC. Many suggestions have been made, through strangely enough, none of these players seem to want to be disarming traps. There is a reason for that. This is a combat game and TR are a DPS class. It is not based around roleplaying except as window dressing and no other class seems to get afflicted by this nonsense.

This

As an Tr and i mentioned my opinion about the Trap idear in these Threads:

I am absolutely not in the mood logging in and will be constantly messaged by: "Hey Dude can you just hopp in, disable the trap and then be replaced again for an "propper class"?"

We made jokes in the guild i am in, and natsu had the idea, if some (in my eyes) nonsense coming up, i should be payed for this sort of actions.
So my price will be:
A R12 enchant, or trans weapon, or trans armor, legendary mount, something like that...
Then it would be fine for me.

iandarksword

I don't think the post was originally about making a change to the relevance of traps with regards to the TR class. I think it was about making traps more relevant to gameplay in general. If you as a TR player don't want to participate in disarmament of traps, then don't, it's that simple. If you as a player don't want to be invited to a party for the sole purpose of disarming traps only to be kicked in favor of some other class, (which is a pretty cruddy move, but it has happened in similar circumstances in the past,) then be more selective when partying. The choice to say "no" is always there. If you would rather choose to run through a dungeon in 3 minutes, melt the boss, lather, rinse, repeat until you drool uncontrollably and your left mouse button stops working, all for a .01% drop, that's your choice, find a group of like minded people and sprint away, it's your time. Requiring thievery kits as an alternative method to disarm traps allows people who play as a TR the choice to play as they please, and doesn't create an unnecessary party requirement. It would be more convenient to have a TR in the party sure, but not the only way to complete the objectives required for the content. Ok, that's enough from the soapbox, TL;DR, play however you feel makes the content enjoyable.

therealprotex

dread4moor said:

I view it more as a missed opportunity or poorly executed game mechanic.

If the dungeons were more D&D-like, suspense-filled crawls with randomly generated puzzles and traps to overcome... traps that actually killed you... this could be great.



Now that they are ripping-off Tomb of Horrors (cough) I mean making Tomb of Annihilation there is a great opportunity to rework how traps fit into game play.



This could also synergize with a TR rework, making TRs incredibly valuable to a run.



Imagine a dungeon filled with randomly generated one-shot deadly traps (that can be disarmed IN combat by a TR).

Lots of imaginative replayable opportunities there.

Maybe along with a TR rework, they could re-introduce old-fashioned skills like "spot" or "search" (based on WIS/INT?) in order to avoid the current natural 20 on spotting traps for TRs.

lordseth1985

greywynd said:

Monster standing on a trap? Well, you do realize that you can't disarm a trap in combat anyway, don't you?

that's weird, you know? a rogue should be able to disarm traps even during combat since it's our HAMSTER job disarm them...

grogthemagnif

You do realize that the Next mod is Tomb of Annihilation AND FULL OF TRAPS? Sure, be an idiot, and change the TR just when he/she can shine. Wait until Mid-August or be stupider than Aesop's frog who 'looked before he leapt.'

ravenskya

How is disarming traps our ability to shine?

greywynd

lordseth1985 said:

that's weird, you know? a rogue should be able to disarm traps even during combat since it's our HAMSTER job disarm them...

You do realize that traps can't be disarmed during combat in the source material, don't you?

talon1970

greywynd said:

lordseth1985 said:

that's weird, you know? a rogue should be able to disarm traps even during combat since it's our HAMSTER job disarm them...

You do realize that traps can't be disarmed during combat in the source material, don't you?

I could see it:

The whole party is fighting against enemy Orcs and the Tr starts yelling during disabeling the Trap:

"Guys would you please, PLEASE shoot your arrows on the Dc?? I am trying to do my job here!!!! Really I can't work under such circumstances...gosh"

After disabeling:

"So i've done it, we can go further on....wait... why are you all dead and why are these 12 Orcs staring bloodthirsty at me??? Oh c'mon everytime i find these weak Adventures why....."

Tr disappears in stealth and walks away....