So...why don't more folks use Plaguefire weapon enchant?

rubytrue

I think for a paladin, this is one of more insanely overpowered WEs available. I've tested (non-ACT) other enchantments, but nothing really seems to melt mobs faster than a good old (trans) Plaguefire. Between the debuff and DoT, it makes solo content supremely easy and group content really sped up since all party members benefit from it. What's more: it is probably the cheapest WE at Transcendent in the AH.

I can see for a ProtOP you might want a Dread since you are focusing on crit for TW, but as a DevOP, the constant damage output and debuff from PF seems hard to beat.

What do you folks run, and why?

Input appreciated.

Fat E

trzebiat

I also think PF is one of the best choices for OP, especially Dev. And good at all ranks since debuff is unlocked from the lowest one. Personally I like Frost more (Pure/Trans for debuff), PF is often used by DC and GF while not many people use Frost (I swapped my PF with a friend DC for Frost). The disable effect from it is great on both Prot and Dev, allows to fully charge BL on trash after Radiant Strike, keeping enemies stun locked.

majorcharvenak

Running with Greater HA on my Fey Mace and a Lesser Feytouched on my aboleth set because its all I have at the moment and I'm playing the game on a tight budget. With either enchant Mobs still die. Maybe not as fast PF or others WEs but they still die. For me, that's the result I'm looking for while running solo. When I work up my AD hoard up to a level where I feel I can drop a chunk on a Greater PF or higher enchant off the auction house. I'll consider picking one up.

rubytrue

majorcharvenak said:

Running with Greater HA on my Fey Mace and a Lesser Feytouched on my aboleth set because its all I have at the moment and I'm playing the game on a tight budget. With either enchant Mobs still die. Maybe not as fast PF or others WEs but they still die. For me, that's the result I'm looking for while running solo. When I work up my AD hoard up to a level where I feel I can drop a chunk on a Greater PF or higher enchant off the auction house. I'll consider picking one up.

You can sell the greater HA and get a trans PF based on the current AH prices (at least on PC).

earlgreybeard

apparently the buff is good until there is 2 people in a party with PF ench.. then they cancel each other out

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12956908

rubytrue

> @earlgreybeard said:
> apparently the buff is good until there is 2 people in a party with PF ench.. then they cancel each other out
>
> https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/comment/12956908

That is really good to know. I knew it felt like I was doing less damage than i used to in groups (still do a lot) and that would go a long way in explaining what I was feeling...thanks for sharing that info. Might have to load up on some pfs while they are cheap; once they are fixed, they should climb in price.

majorcharvenak

rubytrue said:

You can sell the greater HA and get a trans PF based on the current AH prices (at least on PC).

I could do that Ruby, but I have plans to transfer that enchantment to one of my alts once I have a suitable replacement. I understand PF is probably BiS for a Devo OP and its something that I plan on shooting for, its just (and I suspect there are other players like me) that are making due and doing the best with what they have until they accumulate the resources to acquire that better piece of gear or enchantment. My greater HA does its job and that keeps me happy.

That being said, its good to know about that bug to PF stacking, and I may in fact see about scrapping some AD together and pluck one or two lesser PFs off the market for safe keeping.

veywiil

I'll be adding a section soon to the Burnadin guide in the appendix (Page 20 currently), should be worth a quick look at the numbers, you might be surprised as to what other enchantments are surpassing PlagueFire in terms of damage.

Spoiler alert:

Just about everything else. Even if you factor in the debuffs in a group setting, you are losing hundreds of thousands if not millions of damage points, throughout a dungeon run.

rubytrue

Oddly, I do a lot more damage in groups with PF, however, with Bilethorn, everything now dies a lot quicker....

FWIW, Trans Bilethorn is the cat's meow.

mcfly

rubytrue said:

Oddly, I do a lot more damage in groups with PF, however, with Bilethorn, everything now dies a lot quicker....

FWIW, Trans Bilethorn is the cat's meow.

I have seen you today and was wondering why you have a bilethorn enchantment now. I guess you don't plan to change the enchantment everytime you do something with a group? What will be your choice for the future?

armadeonx

My pally uses a Fey to reduce incoming damage but my DC uses a PF to reduce enemy defences, PF is most often used by people in the DC slot so Healadins shouldn't run into the issue of double PF that often. A group combination of PF and Fey is excellent.

rubytrue

mcfly#2257 said:

rubytrue said:

Oddly, I do a lot more damage in groups with PF, however, with Bilethorn, everything now dies a lot quicker....

FWIW, Trans Bilethorn is the cat's meow.

I have seen you today and was wondering why you have a bilethorn enchantment now. I guess you don't plan to change the enchantment everytime you do something with a group? What will be your choice for the future?

So, Veywiil and I were talking, and we were checking out Bilethorn and found that the mechanic works a little differently than expected and seems to really synergize well with Paladin powers. I described it as a popcorn effect, but I think he more accurately described it as "throwing a mouse-trap into a room full of mouse-traps" effect. Given the large number of AoEs that Pallys have at their disposal, Bilethorn kind of acts like a giant green explosion on your screen and things die pretty fast--fast enough that, in groups, you actually do less damage than with PF it seems (it could be that the folks we were running with would of made the runs really short anyway). PF tends to make mobs melt, while Bilethorn tends to make them "pop" both literally and figuratively because of the way the poison is passed among groups.

So what am I going to run? For now, I will be running Bilethorn for three reasons: 1) I had to sell my Trans Plague to buy the Bilethorn so I couldn't use it now even if I wanted; 2) In groups, things seem to die a lot faster with Bilethorn, and solo, they definitely die faster (you can take down large groups in the River District really fast--PF was fast, but this is kind of unreal); 3) I am playing around with a concept for a *really* dark paladin--a Poisondin that uses both Bilethorn and Death Slaad (works well with OP since we use a lot of at-wills.

I might eventually go back to PF, but for now, this is kind of a fun, refreshing change of pace.

rubytrue

Oh, and get your Death Slaads now; they are super cheap on the AH.....I paid like 10X when I got mine a while back.

mcfly

I have checked the ah prices for pf and bilthorn. bilethorn is way more expensive. :-(

rubytrue

mcfly#2257 said:

I have checked the ah prices for pf and bilthorn. bilethorn is way more expensive. :-(

Bang for the buck, Plaguefire is really kind of hard to beat, to be honest....

Edit: FWIW, I think Veywiil and I disagree on this; he isn't a fan of PF at all.

majorcharvenak

Ruby - I remember the other reason I started using HA was for the extra DR and Heal proc. At the time, Prism and BG weren't hit with the nerf hammer and I theorized the extra proc heal might cause an extra proc of BG. Nowadays, I don't think that extra heal (however small) will matter so I was in the process of migrating to Feytouched. However, gonna wait until Jezereal's update to his guide that includes the enchantment appendix before I hop back into the market for a weapon enchant based on the data and analysis he's compiled.

rubytrue

I know a lot of folks run with a Feytouched and make good use of it. I used to have one, and while it was OK, it really didn't fit my particular playstyle for whatever reason. It gives a nice boost to your damage and it has the bonus effect of reducing mob damage. Personally, and I'm probably really in the minority here, I felt mobs melted faster *for me* with the PF. I'm sure ACT will show how awesome (legitimately) Feytouched is in most cases, however.

I traded my Trans Feytouched and Ambush Drake for 3xR12 bonding stones; it was worth every AD.

To be honest, I think part of my problem with the Feytouched was the fact that I could never really get over the fact that my supposedly "dark" paladin had a *pink* sword.

majorcharvenak

rubytrue said:

I know a lot of folks run with a Feytouched and make good use of it. I used to have one, and while it was OK, it really didn't fit my particular playstyle for whatever reason. It gives a nice boost to your damage and it has the bonus effect of reducing mob damage. Personally, and I'm probably really in the minority here, I felt mobs melted faster *for me* with the PF. I'm sure ACT will show how awesome (legitimately) Feytouched is in most cases, however.

I traded my Trans Feytouched and Ambush Drake for 3xR12 bonding stones; it was worth every AD.

To be honest, I think part of my problem with the Feytouched was the fact that I could never really get over the fact that my supposedly "dark" paladin had a *pink* sword.

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

rubytrue

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

Senpai, indeed. Jezereal takes the time to really test out powers and enchants to get a really good understanding of the underlying mechanics.

rjc9000

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

.... Someone else was testing OP weapon enchants?

Who is the jerezreal person? I'd like to cross-reference my data with someone else's.

trzebiat

rjc9000 said:

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

.... Someone else was testing OP weapon enchants?

Who is the jerezreal person? I'd like to cross-reference my data with someone else's.

I'd like to look at the data in general since I'm on PS4 and no ACT to test things with numbers and stuff.

rubytrue

rjc9000 said:

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

.... Someone else was testing OP weapon enchants?

Who is the jerezreal person? I'd like to cross-reference my data with someone else's.

Jezereal is veywiil....

veywiil

rjc9000 said:

.... Someone else was testing OP weapon enchants?

Who is the jerezreal person? I'd like to cross-reference my data with someone else's.

Guide updated, the data is in my Burnadin guide on the google docs, where most of my math goes. Its on the last page, in the appendix. There is a navigation bar on the left for ease of use.
I'm more then eager to hear your opinions on things, feel free to PM me on the forums or mail me in-game. I can go over more specifics of the math etc, but that was just the basic tests I performed in less than an hour. I wanted to keep it simple as most people aren't keen on pouring over heavy math, (which is why the text is in blue).

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

My data is not extensive, I only tested for an hour or so... but just enough to say, how well do single target damage perform and how well does AoE damage perform. I try to be very sure of my results so it takes me a while to actually test, to make sure all outside factors are elminiated, so sorry if it isn't as 'extensive' as you may hope

majorcharvenak

veywiil#8685 said:

majorcharvenak said:

I'll give both a look when Jezereal posts his data in his updated guide. I think either one will work for me but we'll see what senpai Jezereal has to say.

My data is not extensive, I only tested for an hour or so... but just enough to say, how well do single target damage perform and how well does AoE damage perform. I try to be very sure of my results so it takes me a while to actually test, to make sure all outside factors are elminiated, so sorry if it isn't as 'extensive' as you may hope

Off the initial topic but credit where it is due, Jezereal. I've a lot of respect for players who take the time out of their in-game and real lives to crunch the numbers, make sense of what they're observing empirically and then publish and share with the community. You and the crew that helped you did all that when you didn't have to, so my "hood" is off to you, even if it was "only tested for an hour or so."

I did notice that your numbers for the enchantments only listed Lightning, Bilethorn, Flaming, Plaguefire and I think one or two others. Was looking to see if you had anything for Holy Avenger? Reason I ask, is I'm at a cross road of whether I upgrade mine past Greater or sell and look for something better suited. I saw you put plague fire in at number four but even that would be enough to tide me over until I build up the AD reserves to afford Bilethorn or Lighting.

veywiil

I often put my foot in my mouth when I do this... But I think Holy Avenger might just be the worst weapon enchantment in the game.

60 second cooldown is too long. about 55 seconds too long for it to even be close to viable. Have not tested, simply reading the tooltip, which is infamous for being dangerously misleading. I can test it later this week, along with everything else I missed...

rjc9000

veywiil#8685 said:

I often put my foot in my mouth when I do this... But I think Holy Avenger might just be the worst weapon enchantment in the game.

60 second cooldown is too long. about 55 seconds too long for it to even be close to viable. Have not tested, simply reading the tooltip, which is infamous for being dangerously misleading. I can test it later this week, along with everything else I missed...

uh.... Holy Avenger has its uses, and it's certainly not for the DR/healing buff. I mean, take a hop onto the GWF forums, most of them are singing the praises of the Holy Avenger...

Holy, and by lesser extention, Terror, is best used for its weapon damage, as unlike Bilethorn or Flaming, it deals all of its weapon damage in a single hit. This... can be advantageous in certain fights.

And by the way, Burning Light is hilarious with weapon enchants. For each tick of Burning Light, you get an enchant proc, which means 9 procs at a max charge...

(it would also help if Burning Light did more damage...)

majorcharvenak

Thanks for that you two. I'll probably put it up on the market anyway since I could use the extra AD its currently going for. Now if I can just find one of the enchants you mentioned for a decent price or bag a coal ward on my next trip to the vault of piety, I'll be set.

veywiil

rjc9000 said:

uh.... Holy Avenger has its uses, and it's certainly not for the DR/healing buff. I mean, take a hop onto the GWF forums, most of them are singing the praises of the Holy Avenger...

Holy, and by lesser extention, Terror, is best used for its weapon damage, as unlike Bilethorn or Flaming, it deals all of its weapon damage in a single hit. This... can be advantageous in certain fights.

I already said I was wrong in my original post, so I think that's all squared away. I would ideally like to see Holy Avenger 'nerfed' so that it does NOT provide such a strong burst dps function, but that it provides a group buff functionality. Even in the name itself it sounds more like something that a paladin or cleric would use, which, last I checked, we fill support functionality.

Interesting thing to note by the way, Anything that increases your 'Damage' will increase what is statted when reading the tooltips for these enchants. So when I say XYZ does 40% weapon damage, that means the instance of time when I'm reading it / using it. Which is likely why Holy Avenger performs so well for GWF, they can boost their damage number an insane amount for a short period (Unstoppable), where other classes cannot do so.

For paladin, Holy Avenger is a non-viable option I would say. I still strongly recommenced Bilethorn.
Lightning of course is preferred, if you happen to be eating you AD Wheaties for breakfast, sleeping on a mattress of AD, have an AD counter-top where you cook AD potions, and hop on your fancy AD mount to get your AD bags holding AD back to your bank made out of AD from CN, then by all means why not use Lightning?!?

rubytrue

C'mon Cambion Magus...baby needs a new pair of shoes...err...trans lightning enchants.

armadeonx

I have 2 Greater Lightnings waiting for 2xRP (I bought them before the update for very cheap ) I'll bust it up to Trans and see how it fares now.

By the way, Orcus is getting a damage nerf

trzebiat

I returned Frost back to friend DC and traded my PF for Trans Lightning (fits great for my CW too) and I love it. But now I'm a little bit torn what to use - Trans Lightning or Perfect Vorpal (that I just made, I have 70-80% crit chance).