The summoned fire archon bandwagon vs proper companions

santralafax

I'm using sellsword and my only issue with it is how slow it procs companions gift. It was my understanding when they re-worked bondings that all the stacks would be presented at the same time. They would arrive and fall off as one group. The sellsword proves that's not true. It takes quite some time for my full stat potential.

I know some people are saying it really only matters on boss fights, but I'm noticing 10-15 seconds for full stats--and it goes up incrementally.

schietindebux

Never experienced that kind of delay with bondings. Sellsword attacks and bonding procs instant. Looks like your companion is buggy

jaime4312

@schietindebux @santralafax the issue could be he's mistaking the sellsword building stacks of protector's camraderie/friendship (as every hit will get you a bit more of power until the insignia bonus reachs its limit) with the actual bonding procs.

santralafax

jaime4312#3760 said:

@schietindebux @santralafax the issue could be he's mistaking the sellsword building stacks of protector's camraderie/friendship (as every hit will get you a bit more of power until the insignia bonus reachs its limit) with the actual bonding procs.

Perhaps this is it. Mystery likely solved. Though I notice *some* lag in my crit as well at the test dummy. I'd have to test again to see if it takes as long. I may be over-doing the time, certainly I'm talking at least 5-10 secs. before all power and crit is up.

Edit: I'll say uncle this one. I did some more testing and what I'm seeing are likely a number of powers proccing over time. The combat log does not explain the procs enough to detail (at all), and I am no master of ACT.

demolitioninc

The main reason why people use fire archons, is the fact that the attack speed of the Archon is high and he is ranged, meaning bonding proc immediatly. While you attack, the Archon doesn't have to come close to the opponent for attacking, make solo PvE much easier for low and medium geared players, plus it works well in groups. For group support runs, everybody can have a sell sword or ConArtist in its companion slots (they cost 2 Gold anyhow) - put Ostorian rings on them and use them for group runs. You can still have 3 active archons, just summon Con/Sell sword.

spideymt

demolitioninc#2453 said:

For group support runs, everybody can have a sell sword or ConArtist in its companion slots (they cost 2 Gold anyhow) - put Ostorian rings on them and use them for group runs. You can still have 3 active archons, just summon Con/Sell sword.

Why should i have 3 active archons?

demolitioninc

Fire Archon - 7% more damage to targets which are 50% less health, Air Archon - 5% more damage to targets which are not at full health and Earth Archon 6% more damage when you are full health, all as active bonus. Means if your target is below 50% HP and you have decent lifesteal or are ranged, you deal 18% more damage.......speaks for itself for DPS'ler, doesn't it?

spideymt

I wouldnt take the earth archon. Two archons are fine, but for a DPS i thint its better to replace the earth archon with another companion. A crit companion is more helpfull instead of an air archon, dont you think?

dread4moor

Very useful info ITT, actually.
ACT recording variations of party combos from suggestions here.
Very nice results on FBI runs with summoned 1 sellsword, 1 dancing shield, 1 con artist and 2 archons on our highest DPS (they insisted, fast attack/bonding activation).
Very smooth run.

jaime4312

spideymt said:

I wouldnt take the earth archon. Two archons are fine, but for a DPS i thint its better to replace the earth archon with another companion. A crit companion is more helpfull instead of an air archon, dont you think?

As long as the group you run with is good and you have decent lifesteal, earch archon bonus is much better than fire's, you get mode dps out of it.

With so many things giving crit sev and due to their diminishing returns, assuming that you took all possible boosts, % damage pets beat crit sev ones, at least that should hold true for earth and air archons which have an overall dps boost higher than the fire one.

@dread4moor because of what Sharpedge explained on page #2, your 2 dps buddies would have had higher dps (so your run would have been even smoother as enemies would have died faster, especially bosses) if they had a 10% uncapped debuff companion as summoned. Nice to know the 3 companions provived a decent enough boost to help your run be smooth though.

spideymt

jaime4312#3760 said:

As long as the group you run with is good and you have decent lifesteal, earch archon bonus is much better than fire's, you get mode dps out of it.

Sry...but which DPS class needs lifeleech? Only range DDs i guess. And no offense again, but where do i find crit sev on dimishing return? I see crit chance, but not sev. Do you have a newer one? Can you share that plz?

dread4moor

> @jaime4312#3760 said:

>

>
> @dread4moor because of what Sharpedge explained on page #2, your 2 dps buddies would have had higher dps (so your run would have been even smoother as enemies would have died faster, especially bosses) if they had a 10% uncapped debuff companion as summoned. Nice to know the 3 companions provived a decent enough boost to help your run be smooth though.

Yeah, I am already fully convinced.
Can't make other people conform to my wishes tho.
Can only control what I summon.

thefiresidecat

another one that I don't remember seeing mentioned is the rebel mercenary. it also is shred. got one in fbi today. it's slots sadly are the same as the sellsword. it's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than the sellsword at epic though so just a heads up

thefiresidecat

dread4moor said:

Very useful info ITT, actually.

ACT recording variations of party combos from suggestions here.

Very nice results on FBI runs with summoned 1 sellsword, 1 dancing shield, 1 con artist and 2 archons on our highest DPS (they insisted, fast attack/bonding activation).

Very smooth run.

I think that's ideal. you don't need more than that. i'm running sellsword on my dc. don't have the correct gear for her to be optimal but since it's a support toon that's ok the debuff is more important. my complaint with her is how often she's dead. it's ALL the time lol. no survivability.

jaime4312

@spideymt
Lifesteal is good for any dps class, it makes them less dependent on support to stay alive plus it helps to keep that very good earth archon dps boost active.

As for crit severity, check the following link out:

http://janne.coreside.com/mechanics/crit-ca

The part that may interest you the most is "common mistakes".

I think if @dupeks doesn't mind, he can explain you the damage increase of % dmg pets vs crit sev ones given your current stats.

@dread4moor

I hear you on that. My GF has both dancing shield and con and summone either one depending on whether the team already has the former.

@thefiresidecat

The rebel mercenary was mentioned too and yeah is way cheaper than the sellsword, probably because it is by far the less known of the 10% uncapped debuff pets. I do think the missing offence slot of the con artist is worth it because of those sweet x3 ring slots. I can argue that they can survive decently or pretty well depending on group composition.

What I like about the dancing shield, besides having the most powerful dps boost (as a companion) is how crazy cheap it is and thanks to people running IG and selling +3 gear you can get decent equipment for it with a low amount of ad.

spideymt

If crit sev isnt that important dread and vorpal senseless?

jaime4312

spideymt said:

If crit sev isnt that important dread and vorpal senseless?

@spideymt is not that crit sev not important, it's that due to the nature of its diminishing returns you are better off with % damage pets (assuming that you took all or most availalbe crit sev boons, feats etc).

mebengalsfan

You know the devs will fix the sell sword soon. This debuff is causing content to be to easy when players run with more than one of those companions. We will soon see a fix in place to make the sell sword, rebel merc, and con artist all have a single stack. We all know it is coming, so why not adjust our companions now for future state instead of current state as it will be a waste of AD to get a the companion to legendary as I have seen so many players using.

spideymt

jaime4312#3760 said:

@spideymt is not that crit sev not important, it's that due to the nature of its diminishing returns you are better off with % damage pets (assuming that you took all or most availalbe crit sev boons, feats etc).

Does the golden lion hp buff count as hp buff, so earth archon buff works?

thefiresidecat

mebengalsfan#9264 said:

You know the devs will fix the sell sword soon. This debuff is causing content to be to easy when players run with more than one of those companions. We will soon see a fix in place to make the sell sword, rebel merc, and con artist all have a single stack. We all know it is coming, so why not adjust our companions now for future state instead of current state as it will be a waste of AD to get a the companion to legendary as I have seen so many players using.

this is where I'm at bengals fan. I'm guessing most of the people onthis bandwagon are rolling in extra ad/ and or haven't been thru enough nerf cycles to know the signs. and apparently they've already stated they're looking into the state of debuff pets so yeah. I'm guessing it's not far off. I shelled out for blue for my dc but at least I know it's coming lol

beckylunatic

I'm on record as believing that making any summoned companion legendary is a huge gamble. Blue is spendy but not out of the question even for a cheapskate like me. That's as far as I'll go with these.

But I tend to pick companions based on what bound Loyal pieces I have floating around. Based on what my old augments used to wear, I can go Loyal Avenger in 2/3 slots on either of a Con Artist (Stone of Might) or a Sellsword/Rebel (Cat/Stone of Allure). Much less burdensome than it would be for me otherwise.

mebengalsfan

beckylunatic said:

I'm on record as believing that making any summoned companion legendary is a huge gamble. Blue is spendy but not out of the question even for a cheapskate like me. That's as far as I'll go with these.

But I tend to pick companions based on what bound Loyal pieces I have floating around. Based on what my old augments used to wear, I can go Loyal Avenger in 2/3 slots on either of a Con Artist (Stone of Might) or a Sellsword/Rebel (Cat/Stone of Allure). Much less burdensome than it would be for me otherwise.

That is why my greenscale is not purple. I only make companions epic if I will use them constantly in my active. My GF companions are all epic as I like what I have for that character.

My CW I have the companions I want and only my summoned is epic ATM and down the road the rest will be as well.

As for going legendary, the only character I am ready to make that type of investment on is my CW summoned companion.

sundance777

For me, I too need the summoned companion to match the gear I have available AND it needs to be one that will stand the test of time. In my opinion this is yet another flavor of the month companion recommendation that will get capped or otherwise modified. We have parties that can beat Orcus before he raises his hands the first time, kill lostmauth before he flies, kill demo so fast it glitches the run to silver instead of gold...etc. I am not chasing this one, we clear the content just fine without turning hard earned AD into a pet in the inactive slot 3 months later.

Besides I think this pet has already been replaced by the new companion of the month...some drake with 20% debuff...so read up and pony up the cash for the new 'BiS' companion

beckylunatic

sundance777 said:

Besides I think this pet has already been replaced by the new companion of the month...some drake with 20% debuff...so read up and pony up the cash for the new 'BiS' companion

Anyone chasing that is poorly informed. It loses effectiveness against level 73+ foes, and suffers from downtime. I think that got discussed in this very thread, among others.

I have one on my OP since the day I made the character, and it's fine, but I sure wouldn't tell anyone they need to spend millions on it. (Hell, my Ambush Drake is even legendary but this is because the character concept for the OP is such that I will never change the summoned companion. Cryptic would have to absolutely obliterate it.)

jaime4312

@spideymt not sure what that lion hp buff does but the one from the earth archon (dps) does work as long as you're at 100% hp which is quite easy to keep up with a good group and decent lifesteal chance (10% +).

merhunesdagon1

Its too much of a gamble if u wanna max out a companion thats probably gonna be nerfed in a few months. You are going to spend 15mil just to speedrun an FBI? Theres better things to get with that amount of AD..

jaime4312

merhunesdagon1 said:

Its too much of a gamble if u wanna max out a companion thats probably gonna be nerfed in a few months. You are going to spend 15mil just to speedrun an FBI? Theres better things to get with that amount of AD..

@merhunesdagon1 15 million ad??? not sure where you got that from haha. It is better if you check market prices of your platform before making up such exaggerated and utterly wrong comments, it is specially ironic how the dancing shield, on top of having the most powerful dps boost out of all companions is also dirty cheap. I don't think you are aware that the suggested companions' dps boost unlocks at blue quality.

merhunesdagon1

jaime4312#3760 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Its too much of a gamble if u wanna max out a companion thats probably gonna be nerfed in a few months. You are going to spend 15mil just to speedrun an FBI? Theres better things to get with that amount of AD..

@merhunesdagon1 15 million ad??? not sure where you got that from haha. It is better if you check market prices of your platform before making up such exaggerated and utterly wrong comments, it is specially ironic how the dancing shield, on top of having the most powerful dps boost out of all companions is also dirty cheap. I don't think you are aware that the suggested companions' dps boost unlocks at blue quality.

3x loyal avenger gear probably cost more than 15mill lol. Who runs a sellsword with nothing on it? obviously u want those buffs, if not whats the point of using the companion? why would u invest in that knowing it won't last? the only other alternative is IG. and who's running IG these days with the poor drop rate

merhunesdagon1

jaime4312#3760 said:

merhunesdagon1 said:

Its too much of a gamble if u wanna max out a companion thats probably gonna be nerfed in a few months. You are going to spend 15mil just to speedrun an FBI? Theres better things to get with that amount of AD..

@merhunesdagon1 15 million ad??? not sure where you got that from haha. It is better if you check market prices of your platform before making up such exaggerated and utterly wrong comments, it is specially ironic how the dancing shield, on top of having the most powerful dps boost out of all companions is also dirty cheap. I don't think you are aware that the suggested companions' dps boost unlocks at blue quality.

Anyone who is smart, will not invest in it knowing its getting nerfed in the near future, I never had a need for it tbh. besides, its not the end all and be all when it comes to companions. the cost of leveling up a Sellsword, IMO you should just buy the Ambush Drake for another 10% shred. though I wouldnt invest in any of the debuff companions lol

jaime4312

@merhunesdagon1 oh you meant that gear, my bad. Anyway, because of diminishing return on power, I don't think the extra offense slot of the sellsword/rebel mercenaary does justify buying that very expensive loyal avenger gear, con artist is a very viable alternative and the fastest FBI run so far (on console so no loyal avenger) has been done with con artists, that proves the difference between those 2 companios is very very minor.

Ambush drake is inferior to both con artist and dancing shield plus it's a lot more expensive, no reason to get that thing.